pseudoclever
New member
Sorry this is so long. Thanks to any who have the patience.
My wife and I have been polyamorous for about three and a half years, and she has been dating her current long-term-partner for about three. We had initially agreed to a primary/secondary model with veto power; however that has evolved without discussion into a much more equal relationship with our partners, and my wife has recently made it clear vetoes don’t apply to LTP’s. (For the record, in 3.5 years, we’ve never used a veto.)
Her partner has a long history of minor rudeness and questionable behavior toward me – I’ll leave aside the specifics, except to say my wife agreed his bad behavior IS real, that it stems from his insecurity toward me and lack of ability to communicate, and that I’ve behaved extremely well in response to it. His behavior was steadily getting worse the more time we spent together, and he was avoiding talking about it, ignoring texts, etc. It came to a head one evening when he behaved especially bad, and I tried to gently address it, using a soft voice, “I feel that” type statements, etc. Over the course of about sixty seconds, he started shouting at me, made accusations about other people, and stormed out. (He and my wife had a date planned for afterward, so she went with him.) I later texted, saying we should all get together and talk this out, but that no matter what I would respect their relationship; this reportedly “infuriated” him.
It took a couple weeks, but at my wife’s insistence, he agreed to meet so we could talk it out, with my wife playing referee. He displayed no contrition, broke numerous boundaries even immediately after they were expressed, told me “Your feelings aren’t my problem,” and insisted that any time in the future I wanted him to stop a behavior, I should first tell him that he wasn’t ACTUALLY doing anything wrong and that it was all in my head. We discussed this conversation at length in couple’s therapy, and it was universally agreed he had behaved terribly – our therapist went so far as to call him a psychopath. I told my wife I wanted minimal contact with this person in the future, and she agreed, though she would continue seeing him.
Twenty-four hours later, he had a major psychotic episode. He was calling my wife while she was asleep, and was upset she wasn’t answering, asking if I would wake her. I told him she would be awake in an hour, but he kept messaging me even after I laid down firm boundaries, and even after he said he would leave me alone. He then started messaging all our mutual friends to try to get them to convince me (these people are now done with him, incidentally.) The messages included one to my own LTP, who he’d previously only met a handful of times. He threated to hospitalize himself and made oblique references to self harm, and was otherwise acting unhinged. I became afraid for my own safety, given that we didn’t get along, and that he knew where I lived. My LTP later told me they also felt afraid when they’d received messages from him. Eventually I woke my wife, and she was obliged to cancel plans we had made to go tend to him.
That night I told my wife I was afraid for my safety, and that I was concerned that some of his behavior might be manipulative / gaslighting based on various subjective red flags I had seen (leaving these out because as I said, subjective.) She decided to get out of town for a week, and asked if I would be the one to explain the situation to her boyfriend. I did, writing him a LONG message detailing his bad behavior, and ended by insisting that he begin therapy to address several specific issues. I made it clear that, as much as I was aware I SHOULD tell them to stop dating, I was explicitly not saying that. He agreed, but otherwise didn’t say much.
Here’s where we are today, and where my question comes in:
After much soul searching, my wife believes there is no manipulation, and will stay with this person. She acknowledges he has treated me terribly, but insists he treats her well, and that he’s a good man who acted badly. He is displaying remorse to her, and has told her he wants to fix things (though he hasn’t said anything to me.) She isn’t angry with him, and wants their relationship to continue unchanged, save that he and I have zero contact, and that he increase his therapy from once per month to twice per week. He showed his therapist the letter I wrote him, presumably so they could work from it. My wife is committed to calling him out should he break boundaries in the future, and has agreed to leave him if his bad behavior continues. But….
- The two of them got together while I was out of town to discuss the situation (before she and I had a chance to discuss things.) He initially complained that he was “being punished,” before my wife explained very little was expected of him – just therapy.
- After the above discussion, they had a date and a sleep-over as normal, again before she and I discussed things and again while I was out of town. I had NOT expressly forbidden them to go out, so I’m not sure if it’s fair for me to be upset.
- She’s told me if I force her to leave him, she might not be able to keep loving me.
- She insisted that everything that has happened is her fault, and that she should’ve stepped up and enforced my boundaries (boundaries that I was already enforcing.)
- She has a weekend-long camping trip planned with him one week from today, and intends to keep those plans. She’ll cancel if I insist, but has made it clear she’d be upset if I try to keep her from seeing him.
So FINALLY, here’s my question:
Given that I have openly said their relationship can continue, is it fair for me to be upset that she isn’t angry with this person, and is okay with their relationship carrying on as normal – with multiple weekly visits and a regular Saturday night sleepover? In short, can you get angry at a person for not being angry on your behalf?
I keep feeling like I’m crazy to let this continue, crazy to stay in this situation, that I’m being way too lenient, that I should be running for the hills. I’ve tried to keep this message to facts only. Based on this post, which believe it or not IS the tl;dr version, can I get the feedback from some poly-knowledgable strangers?
My wife and I have been polyamorous for about three and a half years, and she has been dating her current long-term-partner for about three. We had initially agreed to a primary/secondary model with veto power; however that has evolved without discussion into a much more equal relationship with our partners, and my wife has recently made it clear vetoes don’t apply to LTP’s. (For the record, in 3.5 years, we’ve never used a veto.)
Her partner has a long history of minor rudeness and questionable behavior toward me – I’ll leave aside the specifics, except to say my wife agreed his bad behavior IS real, that it stems from his insecurity toward me and lack of ability to communicate, and that I’ve behaved extremely well in response to it. His behavior was steadily getting worse the more time we spent together, and he was avoiding talking about it, ignoring texts, etc. It came to a head one evening when he behaved especially bad, and I tried to gently address it, using a soft voice, “I feel that” type statements, etc. Over the course of about sixty seconds, he started shouting at me, made accusations about other people, and stormed out. (He and my wife had a date planned for afterward, so she went with him.) I later texted, saying we should all get together and talk this out, but that no matter what I would respect their relationship; this reportedly “infuriated” him.
It took a couple weeks, but at my wife’s insistence, he agreed to meet so we could talk it out, with my wife playing referee. He displayed no contrition, broke numerous boundaries even immediately after they were expressed, told me “Your feelings aren’t my problem,” and insisted that any time in the future I wanted him to stop a behavior, I should first tell him that he wasn’t ACTUALLY doing anything wrong and that it was all in my head. We discussed this conversation at length in couple’s therapy, and it was universally agreed he had behaved terribly – our therapist went so far as to call him a psychopath. I told my wife I wanted minimal contact with this person in the future, and she agreed, though she would continue seeing him.
Twenty-four hours later, he had a major psychotic episode. He was calling my wife while she was asleep, and was upset she wasn’t answering, asking if I would wake her. I told him she would be awake in an hour, but he kept messaging me even after I laid down firm boundaries, and even after he said he would leave me alone. He then started messaging all our mutual friends to try to get them to convince me (these people are now done with him, incidentally.) The messages included one to my own LTP, who he’d previously only met a handful of times. He threated to hospitalize himself and made oblique references to self harm, and was otherwise acting unhinged. I became afraid for my own safety, given that we didn’t get along, and that he knew where I lived. My LTP later told me they also felt afraid when they’d received messages from him. Eventually I woke my wife, and she was obliged to cancel plans we had made to go tend to him.
That night I told my wife I was afraid for my safety, and that I was concerned that some of his behavior might be manipulative / gaslighting based on various subjective red flags I had seen (leaving these out because as I said, subjective.) She decided to get out of town for a week, and asked if I would be the one to explain the situation to her boyfriend. I did, writing him a LONG message detailing his bad behavior, and ended by insisting that he begin therapy to address several specific issues. I made it clear that, as much as I was aware I SHOULD tell them to stop dating, I was explicitly not saying that. He agreed, but otherwise didn’t say much.
Here’s where we are today, and where my question comes in:
After much soul searching, my wife believes there is no manipulation, and will stay with this person. She acknowledges he has treated me terribly, but insists he treats her well, and that he’s a good man who acted badly. He is displaying remorse to her, and has told her he wants to fix things (though he hasn’t said anything to me.) She isn’t angry with him, and wants their relationship to continue unchanged, save that he and I have zero contact, and that he increase his therapy from once per month to twice per week. He showed his therapist the letter I wrote him, presumably so they could work from it. My wife is committed to calling him out should he break boundaries in the future, and has agreed to leave him if his bad behavior continues. But….
- The two of them got together while I was out of town to discuss the situation (before she and I had a chance to discuss things.) He initially complained that he was “being punished,” before my wife explained very little was expected of him – just therapy.
- After the above discussion, they had a date and a sleep-over as normal, again before she and I discussed things and again while I was out of town. I had NOT expressly forbidden them to go out, so I’m not sure if it’s fair for me to be upset.
- She’s told me if I force her to leave him, she might not be able to keep loving me.
- She insisted that everything that has happened is her fault, and that she should’ve stepped up and enforced my boundaries (boundaries that I was already enforcing.)
- She has a weekend-long camping trip planned with him one week from today, and intends to keep those plans. She’ll cancel if I insist, but has made it clear she’d be upset if I try to keep her from seeing him.
So FINALLY, here’s my question:
Given that I have openly said their relationship can continue, is it fair for me to be upset that she isn’t angry with this person, and is okay with their relationship carrying on as normal – with multiple weekly visits and a regular Saturday night sleepover? In short, can you get angry at a person for not being angry on your behalf?
I keep feeling like I’m crazy to let this continue, crazy to stay in this situation, that I’m being way too lenient, that I should be running for the hills. I’ve tried to keep this message to facts only. Based on this post, which believe it or not IS the tl;dr version, can I get the feedback from some poly-knowledgable strangers?
