In need of relationship advice.

S

SeekingYourAdvice

New member
Firstly - allow me to apologize if similar questions have been asked before - I had a quick look - but relationships come in all shapes and sizes with all their uniqueness so I figured it would be better to ask direct.

There's a lot of backstory that I could go into - but I'd rather not (for reasons) however, if everyone thinks it would be helpful to understand, I may share.

If I boil the question down to it's most basic elements:

Me and my Wife are both Kinky/open minded folks.
For reasons, My wife is currently not 'in love' with me. What does that mean? We are still in the same house, we are making things work with our family, we still have Sex (pretty regularly) - but she doesn't desire me.
That's a problem for me.

Now, we've been together for 10+ years - and we've had ups and downs, I'm not in it for the shorthaul, I'm in it for the longhaul, I'm stubborn and I don't mind suffering a little bit for the sake of something important.

The problem is - I have a need to try and show affection, show love - and she's not receptive to it. I try to suppress it, but surprise surprise - suppressing it doesn't work - it hurts me and then I get frustrated and then that boils over, not into a fight per se but in me doing something that pushes her away.

I want to give her time and space, but it's hard for me.

I fear that at the moment, without any changes, it is going to be a downward spiral (yes, that is a reference) that ends in the ultimate conclusion that I don't want and she doesn't want either (we both want to, as cliche as it is, stay together for the kids).

We have friends that are Poly and we've dabbled and done our fair share of extra marital fun - so I've been thinking about suggesting it to her:

My reasons: If I have someone else to flirt with and who scratches that desire itch, then I won't be so frustrated day-to-day, I can calm down and give my Wife what she needs.

However, I am (if I'm honest) scared shitless about that because the if I get all the things I 'need' from someone else, will I stop seeing my wife in the same light?!? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. It terrifies me to think that an idea to save our relationship would be the very thing that dooms it.

Problem number 2: You can't build a house on broken foundations. I'm not the best at interpersonal relationships (I'm your typical engineer - go figure) the other fear is that jumping into something like this when there are fundamental issues isn't going to work and something somewhere will end in a big nasty bang where lots of people get hurt etc. I don't want that.

"Why don't you just hire a Sex Worker?" Short answer - nothing against sex workers, but payment corrupts my pleasure from the act. I have my own little combination of things that make me, me. And due to various factors - I like my sexual partners to get off. I mean really get off - it is what drives me. Don't get me wrong, I have other things I like as well - but that's my big thing. If I've paid you for a service - I can't tell if you genuinely had fun or you are simply making the 'correct' business decision - and that robs me of sincerity which means I can't enjoy myself because I can't trust if you've enjoyed yourself.

I'm sure there's a million and one other potential pitfalls and hazards I haven't considered.

So to conclude and ask for the actual bit of advice: Is this a good idea? Is it a bad idea? Do I sound like every other person at this stage of a relationship? Are there things I could/should consider that I haven't?

I feel a bit rude jumping on a forum and asking a big ranty question without contributing anything first - but this is important to me and I'm seeking advice!
 
I suppose you're going to have to detail the finer points because it seems like you have a wife who admits she doesn't love you, but wants you to stay around for convenience. Your kids will be seeing a miserable, unreciprocated relationship and learn that they shouldn't expect to be loved. And you want us to tell you if suggesting polyamory in this situation would be the right thing to do.

Polyamory is basically about loving more than one person. You don't even have one loving relationship at present, so I'd say you're a single guy who should do what they want with who they want.
SeekingYourAdvice said:
Firstly - allow me to apologize if similar questions have been asked before - I had a quick look - but relationships come in all shapes and sizes with all their uniqueness so I figured it would be better to ask direct.

There's a lot of backstory that I could go into - but I'd rather not (for reasons) however, if everyone thinks it would be helpful to understand, I may share.

If I boil the question down to it's most basic elements:

Me and my Wife are both Kinky/open minded folks.
For reasons, My wife is currently not 'in love' with me. What does that mean? We are still in the same house, we are making things work with our family, we still have Sex (pretty regularly) - but she doesn't desire me.
That's a problem for me.

Now, we've been together for 10+ years - and we've had ups and downs, I'm not in it for the shorthaul, I'm in it for the longhaul, I'm stubborn and I don't mind suffering a little bit for the sake of something important.

The problem is - I have a need to try and show affection, show love - and she's not receptive to it. I try to suppress it, but surprise surprise - suppressing it doesn't work - it hurts me and then I get frustrated and then that boils over, not into a fight per se but in me doing something that pushes her away.

I want to give her time and space, but it's hard for me.

I fear that at the moment, without any changes, it is going to be a downward spiral (yes, that is a reference) that ends in the ultimate conclusion that I don't want and she doesn't want either (we both want to, as cliche as it is, stay together for the kids).

We have friends that are Poly and we've dabbled and done our fair share of extra marital fun - so I've been thinking about suggesting it to her:

My reasons: If I have someone else to flirt with and who scratches that desire itch, then I won't be so frustrated day-to-day, I can calm down and give my Wife what she needs.

However, I am (if I'm honest) scared shitless about that because the if I get all the things I 'need' from someone else, will I stop seeing my wife in the same light?!? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. It terrifies me to think that an idea to save our relationship would be the very thing that dooms it.

Problem number 2: You can't build a house on broken foundations. I'm not the best at interpersonal relationships (I'm your typical engineer - go figure) the other fear is that jumping into something like this when there are fundamental issues isn't going to work and something somewhere will end in a big nasty bang where lots of people get hurt etc. I don't want that.

"Why don't you just hire a Sex Worker?" Short answer - nothing against sex workers, but payment corrupts my pleasure from the act. I have my own little combination of things that make me, me. And due to various factors - I like my sexual partners to get off. I mean really get off - it is what drives me. Don't get me wrong, I have other things I like as well - but that's my big thing. If I've paid you for a service - I can't tell if you genuinely had fun or you are simply making the 'correct' business decision - and that robs me of sincerity which means I can't enjoy myself because I can't trust if you've enjoyed yourself.

I'm sure there's a million and one other potential pitfalls and hazards I haven't considered.

So to conclude and ask for the actual bit of advice: Is this a good idea? Is it a bad idea? Do I sound like every other person at this stage of a relationship? Are there things I could/should consider that I haven't?

I feel a bit rude jumping on a forum and asking a big ranty question without contributing anything first - but this is important to me and I'm seeking advice!
Click to expand...
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.

Did you do something to bring on your wife’s not “ being in “ love with you or were you surprised to learn this ? And is a feeling or has this been directly told to you ?

Do you know why she is regularly still having sex with you. Is it for the release, habit , some sort of obligation, taking one for the team to keep the family together?

DOES you wife see this as a problem / concern in the short term or long term or is it some phase? BOTTOM LINE is she will to work with you on this problem. You can’t fix this on your own.

DOES she know how you think and feel on this topic ?

DO YOU KNOW each other’s love language?

HAS anyone thought maybe marriage counseling might be a good place to fix foundation ???

I terms of opening up I think you’re looking at this from just your side Of getting your needs met Because that’s going to cut exactly the opposite way as well. Is it possible opening up the relationship will take the pressure off and make things more tolerable and relaxed …Sure. HOWEVER it’s more likely the death spiral will accelerate if you’re both out building new romantic relationships.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

I could be wrong. You sound like you are thinking about a lot of things and perhaps struggling with anticipatory grief. Is that true?

Like you are in "bargaining stage" and trying to jiggle puzzle pieces around to make it work because you don't want to think about parting ways.

But if you are able to come to this calmly... step back from it a bit. Think it out.

If I have someone else to flirt with and who scratches that desire itch, then I won't be so frustrated day-to-day, I can calm down and give my Wife what she needs.
Click to expand...

Your wife NEEDS a loveless marriage?

You NEED to go find you some crutch person who welcomes your loving touches to enable you to endure a loveless marriage?

She rebuffs loving touches because she's not in love with you any more.

Why are you two sharing sex? Cuz you are married and want to scratch the itch but haven't broken up so can't get it scratched anywhere else? Sharing sex like that is... fun? Desirable? Hollow? Lonely feeling? What?

However, I am (if I'm honest) scared shitless about that because the if I get all the things I 'need' from someone else, will I stop seeing my wife in the same light?!? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. It terrifies me to think that an idea to save our relationship would be the very thing that dooms it.
Click to expand...

To me? You aren't saving the relationship.

You are trying to preserve the marriage and resisting allowing the relationship to evolve/change shapes. It's changed lots. You used to not even know her. Then you dated. Then that changed to being engaged. Then that changed to being married. Then that changed to being coparents.

If it is about the relationship with her...

Kinda wondering why "staying together for the kids" can't change to be in a "healthy divorced coparenting family" shape? Why's it HAVE to come in a "married" shape?

Like benefits on taxes, health insurance, can't afford to break up? Something else?

Kids who are well supported with family therapy can adjust and change to healthy, divorced coparenting family. They really aren't involved in your marriage to your wife. You marriage is between you and her.

What's "staying together for the kids" even mean? You put off divorce til the youngest graduates HS or moves out? You stay meh married forever til you die or the kids die?

Is this what you want to teach the kids to do in their own adult lives if they ever get to this place? Meh marriage?


Problem number 2: You can't build a house on broken foundations. I'm not the best at interpersonal relationships (I'm your typical engineer - go figure) the other fear is that jumping into something like this when there are fundamental issues isn't going to work and something somewhere will end in a big nasty bang where lots of people get hurt etc. I don't want that.
Click to expand...

Yup. "Relationship broken. Add more people" doesn't work. It ends up exploding. You seem to know that.

I think right now you are having a hard time contemplating big changes. And are thinking "polyamory" could fix things because you are in the bargaining stage of anticipatory grief.

It's ok to be there.

But please don't go actually doing any polyamory. Other people don't need to be dragged through couple weird. You don't need to be dragged through couple weird either.

If your wife has fallen out of love with you? You could ask if this is something that might change over time, or she's basically done. She cares about you as coparent, but not like big romance partner. Maybe she isn't really sure.

Perhaps talking about a trial separation and one of you moving out for a year's lease could help clarify where this lands for each of you. A time out to reflect, see what living on your own, sharing coparenting, and maybe not date or date other people. So you can decide if you two want to work on reconciliation or move ahead to a final divorce.

(If you do date people, you are each clear that you are in a trial separation. Be honest with them about what it is.)

That makes more sense to me than just leaping into polyamory.

Polyamory isn't a bandaid for marriage problems.

Do you think you might benefit from talking to an individual counselor about all this stuff that's going on in your head? You sound sad and lonely. :(

Maybe that needs to be first. Before talking to your wife and considering couple counseling, a trial separation, any of that. Getting you some extra support in a difficult time? That seems like a more productive way forward.

I don't know if you are at this place, but in case you need to reflect on it.

www.scarleteen.com

Should I Stay or Should I Go?

Feeling unhappy in or unsure about your relationship? Having problems you don’t know how to work through, or don’t even know if you should? We’ll talk you through making these choices, including how-to’s on conflict resolution and doing breakups better.
www.scarleteen.com www.scarleteen.com
 
Last edited:
Yeah, poly tends to exaggerate existing relationship issues, rather than quell them. It's not generally a good idea to use it as a way to fix a marriage. I'm sure it's worked for someone somewhere, but it's better to go into poly because you are secure and genuinely want more love.
 
Hello SeekingYourAdvice,

Polyamory may not fix your marriage, but that doesn't mean it isn't right for you. I think the thing to do here is to not entangle polyamory with your marriage. So your marriage has some problems, the thing to do is to fix them directly. If they can be fixed. Your wife isn't in love with you. An important question would then be, *Why* isn't she in love with you? Have you asked her that? Was there one particular moment when her love for you died, or did it slowly get sicker and sicker over the years? What would it take to get that love back? Can she answer that question?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you all for your kind words - So - this was a bit of a Hail Mary thought - but the response(s) have confirmed that this isn't something to explore.

In particular, the Should I stay or Should I go link was most helpful. There's lots of things I've done and she's done that brought us to this situation. Most of which is in the past (or at least, mostly in the past - there's a few things that probably still need to be dealt with) - we've discussed couples therapy - just at the moment, we are really in a financial bind (WIP to fix) and whilst I can hear myself saying 'Therapy is cheaper than a divorce lawyer' and 'What is worth more than your relationship' - it's complicated.

To give some answers to the questions posed:

The best way I could describe where we are at is imagine you've got a widescreen TV with a few dead pixels on it. You can watch a Movie, play games on it and 99% of it is perfectly good and fine - but you know the dead pixels are there and every so often your eyes are drawn to them because you know that they are broken.

I know something is missing and despite the rest of the relationship being good - I notice it and it bugs me.

I've talked to my Wife about what is missing and the best I can gather is something like this: She knows I want something from her that currently she can't give. This causes her to feel pressured into something, when I express my frustration at this missing thing, she feels even more pressured - like she's failing as a Wife. It's not that she wants a love-less marriage - it's just she knows it's an issue for me, but she won't lie to herself and pretend for my sake (nor would I want her to). I've been trying to give her time and space and as it happens recently there was a turn of events (which is why I haven't responded sooner) that allowed me to platonically demonstrate that when SHTF, regardless of everything else - I'm there 100% for her.

I'm hopefully that said event is the start of rekindling us. We had a small chat about it the other day and she did acknowledge that she felt less pressure and that she could see I was trying.

This comes back to the Should I stay or should I go link - I know I'm there for her, and if tomorrow I ended up in hospital in a mangled mess, I'm certain she'd be there for me too.

That's a form of Love that you cannot buy and is built over years and years and I'm not throwing that away - likewise though, I know how she is when she's in-love with me - and I miss it.

It's hard to explain - but here goes - I'll use Sex as an example - now, we are all adults here and we all know that life and the realities of life mean we can't all have earth shattering sex all the time. Sometimes it's a sneaky quicky, sometimes it's a 'because my partner needs it', sometimes it's roll over in bed and 30 seconds later roll back. But when she is in-love with someone and has that physical and emotional attraction, every there's a connection there - it means the 'eh' roll over, 30 seconds and roll back sex is still mentally and emotionally satisfying. It also means that sometimes there is a raging fire of desire inside that needs be satiated.

I've not felt that last part in a while.

So, all-in-all - I again want to thank you for your kind and thoughtful words - and some of you certainly have a lot of insight and the advice you provided has been well received and acknowledged - and if nothing else, having a 'rant' and putting thoughts and feelings onto digital paper has been cathartic and getting a 3rd perspective has been great.
It is unlikely I shall make a further post on this subject or frequent the forum as at this stage, I think I have a road that I must follow and I need the patience and perseverance to stick to the path and not try and shortcut.

However - if anyone does want to reply, I will probably read and be equally grateful for your thoughts.
 
SeekingYourAdvice said:
That's a form of Love that you cannot buy and is built over years and years
Click to expand...

I have a neighbour that I am on 'hello' terms with. We did swap numbers at some point. One day, I received a call that said the neighbour has been in an accident, could I possibly come to the hospital, collect keys, and then go their home and feed their cat. I'd never been in their home before this. I did it. I also took them some basics that I bought on my way to them. Underwear, toiletries. Because I knew they wouldn't have any with them.

That kind of love was built over years and years of saying hello when we saw each other.

Basic kindness and support is basic
 
Glad the "Should I stay or should I go" link was helpful. And that airing out/venting helped you some.

I don't think there's enough English words for love, but perhaps the love theory visual gives you some extras to help you describe what is happening. Not perfect, but gives more words.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_theory_of_love

This comes back to the Should I stay or should I go link - I know I'm there for her, and if tomorrow I ended up in hospital in a mangled mess, I'm certain she'd be there for me too.
Click to expand...

And this loyalty/committment love isn't going anywhere if you both choose to maintain it.

It can exist in a divorced coparenting relationship.

That's a form of Love that you cannot buy and is built over years and years and I'm not throwing that away - likewise though, I know how she is when she's in-love with me - and I miss it.
Click to expand...

Of course you miss romantic love. When she was IN LOVE with you.

But when she is in-love with someone and has that physical and emotional attraction, every there's a connection there - it means the 'eh' roll over, 30 seconds and roll back sex is still mentally and emotionally satisfying. It also means that sometimes there is a raging fire of desire inside that needs be satiated.

I've not felt that last part in a while.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you miss passion love, or consummate love which includes passion.

I don't know your ages -- and you do not have to say online. But if it applies or helps any, there's a weird patch to get through if you are hitting perimenopause/andropause age. I've noticed a lot of couples break up in the 40s/50s and don't seem to make it thru that patch. The hormone changes and discomforts and picking at each other and all that. Along with the life changes typical of that age -- like empty nest or increasing eldercare for instance. Some manage to get through all their changes and hurdles. Others do not make it or really need to part for other reasons.

I hope you two are able to get to counseling despite it currently being a challenge.

GL!

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
I think that the one thing I’d add to the poly truism of “opening up to save your marriage doesn’t work…” is “…except when it does.”

I say that because it sort of did, for my relationship with my Knight. And it was a massive struggle, which I wasn’t sure we would get through at many points over the past few years but here we are.

Having a committed, loving relationship with a spouse who you aren’t _exactly_ in romantic love with but who you couldn’t wouldn’t want to live without, while having a passionate, romantic, committed relationship with someone else is hard… but amazing. I live it. But it _only_ works because everyone involved already believed in the principle that you could build custom relationships that didn’t have to be Disney-happily-ever-after monogamy before we really got deeply into this. Knight and I have built a life together… but we grew in different directions sexually over the past 20 years and while yeah, it happens not-infrequently these days, it’s… mellow, compared to the literally-hanging-off-the-four-poster-bed kind of crazy passion I have with Artist. And as long as I don’t try to fit either of them in a slot they don’t fill? The balance between the two is lovely.

The reality is for me if we hadn’t opened up, if I had thought I could never have that sort of passion again, it would have either meant I stayed and was miserable or left and lost someone who’s crucially important to me, so in many ways it was the only good option.

But again, making that work took a ridiculous amount of struggle, over several years. (Read my blog, or at least skim it, and you can get an idea of how it went “in real time”.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top