Is America really ready for poly?

A

amobrasil

New member
My girlfriend and I knew nothing about poly until we both fell in love with a female friend last July. Since then, we have been pursuing a poly-fi triad. We have been fortunate enough to date numerous 20-something unicorns. Unfortunately, our track record has been less than stellar, as indicated by the fact that we are still in search of the triad. But more disconcertingly, our experiences make us wonder if poly is worth the pain we unintentionally put the girls through.

Are these common problems? Have you experienced similar problems?

Is America truly ready for poly? Our personal experiences indicate a huge “NO." And these experiences are enough to make us give up on poly, lest we inflict more unintentional pain on people (which hurts us, too). I understand that we have the option of staying in the closet and never coming out.

Is this what everyone is doing? Is this really the only way that one can be polyamorous in America?

Here are three of the girls we've dated. All names have been changed.

Kaley – She was in love with my girlfriend and she liked me. But she did not have the courage to come out to her parents as bisexual, let alone polyamorous, fearing retribution. She came from an extremely conservative culture, where bisexuality would have caused her to be disowned. It was a heartbreaker, because we had a great chemistry and we genuinely liked each other. The relationship ended bitterly, before it even really started, and it took a long time for everyone’s heart to heal.

Mia – She was extremely beautiful, and there was strong attraction among us from the get-go. Although she'd never been poly, she instantly understood and loved the concept of a triad when we explained it to her. In fact, she was so excited about us that she called her mother that very night and announced her intention to be with us. This turned out to be a serious mistake. Her mother was enraged, calling us "disgusting deviants." She vowed to disown Mia, and even managed to track down my girlfriend’s mother to phone her with vicious words, promising retribution for our “corrupting” Mia. Mia was terrified and became depressed over the coming months, communicating with us in secret, but not being able to meet with us. We eventually stopped talking. She now lives at home, a virtual prisoner, under the constant watch of her mother. Her mother refuses to accept that her daughter is bisexual, and Mia is fighting severe depression.

Rena – She had a crush on my girlfriend, not realizing my girlfriend was with me. She showed up at our house when my girlfriend was not home, and she was stunned to find me answer the door. But after the initial shock wore off, we had a great conversation (it felt like a perfect blind date). We became friends, and when we shared that we were trying to be poly, she enthusiastically volunteered herself. She loved the idea of a triad, so much so that she began to tell everyone she knew about it, including her ex. Again, a huge mistake. Her ex found the idea so repulsive and outrageous that he had his lawyer give her a call. The lawyer told her she was exhibiting “deviant behavior," “emotional instability," and “complete lack of judgment." Then he said her ex would take her to court to take away her kids (she shared custody with her ex) unless she stopped seeing me and my girlfriend. She called us in tears that night, devastated and broken, and told us goodbye. The last we heard, she was struggling with anxiety and depression.

:(
 
I can understand that poly can cause pain, and it is a lot of work, but really, for me, my question to people would be (I'm not American, and lots of people on here are, not so I'm changing it up a bit), "Are you ready to look at yourself and how you do relationships differently?" I think most people don't want to because they are uninterested, or they don't want to because it's too much work, and they would rather be mono to avoid the struggle. Coming out can be a part of that or not.

I was ready, and am completely happy, beyond my wildest dreams. I'm sure that others are ready for that, and/or are just as happy, having worked fucking hard for it.

I came out to everyone, because my mother was accusing my boyfriend of abusing my child. It was a mess and really hard. I stood my ground and stood up for us, as did my husband and boyfriend. We worked hard and were patient, forgiving every step of the way. The results have been complete acceptance. Understanding is not there, but I am fine with acceptance.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. Maybe there is a lesson there that was missed that you could learn from.
 
These painful moments are not brought to you thanks to polyamory, but rather courtesy of a deeply sex-negative puritanical mainstream culture, which would have your three girlfriends conform, even if it means misery to them.

I think the lesson to take away is to be circumspect with the people you're out to. Discovering polyamory feels so amazing and wonderful, and when you're in love you want to tell the world! But some people have to be eased into the idea.

Your unicorns might have been more successful telling their exes/parents about you had they introduced you first, and had fun family times with them and you, their "special friends," together. Once the parents know you and like you, then you can start coming out to them in stages. But dropping it on them like a bomb before a relationship has even started--- the startled and frightened reactions are hardly a surprise.
 
It sounds like your unicorns are rather weak-willed people. Weak-willed people rely heavily upon the acceptance of others, so it should be an alert going off in your head when you meet yet another one.

For what it's worth, our unicorn wasn't into poly either, when we first started talking. I didn't give her much consideration, due to this, and merely treated her like a friend. However, over time, the idea must have sprouted in her mind, as anything logical does to an intelligent person, and she become receptive.

Of course, she isn't someone heavily reliant upon the acceptance of others, even though her mother is fine with it. Most of her friends and family aren't, and she doesn't really care. If anyone did anything to wrong her or us because of it, they would be punished. That's the way I live. As George Bush says, Living in fear means the monogamists win. ;)
 
Redpepper, Ready2Fly, preciselove, thank you for your insight and advice.

Redpepper, after these painful experiences, we decided that, if someone becomes interested in us, we will always discuss with her the issues regarding her coming out. That decision actually spared us another bad experience. A girl we met online liked us, but had not thought through the family issues until we brought them up. Upon discussion, she quickly realized she wasn't yet ready to face the wrath of her parents, both devout Catholics. She gave up on the idea and we soon lost contact.

I applaud you for standing your ground. Coming out to our parents was also a painful experience for us. The triad was my gf's idea, but her ultra-religious parents completely ignored her and came directly after me because, in their own words, I'm the man and the "head" of the house. (This, of course, infuriated my gf, who was not going to accept being trivialized.) They had harsh words for me ("immoral and deviant", "going to hell", "doomed to destruction") and even blamed my gf's bisexuality on me, which I found ridiculous. They even asked me to stop her from being bi. They do not talk to me anymore, but they still maintain a relationship with their daughter, albeit strained, where her every word and action is viewed with suspicion and disapproval.

Ready2Fly, you are absolutely right about the social prejudice. And I think it's a great idea to keep things quiet until the comfort level rises. Thanks!

Preciselove, it's interesting what you said, because my gf and I have been thinking exactly the same thing. (She says these girls "disgust" her, and they need to stop being mama's girls and grow some backbone.) All the girls I mentioned were excited when exposed to the idea, but quickly withered away when they realized they would lose the moral support of their parents. The trick, then, would be to find and connect with a strong, level-headed person who is not afraid to live her own life as she wishes. But these persons seem to be rare.

Over time, we've become friends with many bi girls on OK Cupid, but most of them have not even come out to their parents yet, for fear of rejection and retribution. This makes us think that quality is indeed rare, that finding a strong, quality person is not a matter of looking harder. We're therefore thinking of stopping our search and simply concentrating on friendships, without any ulterior motive or manipulation. Perhaps, in time, strong friendships could translate to romance.
 
Hi Amobrasil,

Please don't take this the wrong way. I don't know any better way than somewhat directly. Your post is filled with the naivety of youth. Lessons will and do come. They always do. In all our Utopian dreams we often find ugly reality hidden.

The way you all proceeded with this doomed it to complications, if not failure. Next time you'll be wiser. :)

There's always this whole idealistic piece, especially when it comes to alternatives, that wants us to try to live authentically. That's an honorable concept on paper. In reality and practice, it can come at quite a cost, as you all now see. You have to be able to bear that cost. At that time and place Some things need to grow slowly to get solid roots capable of withstanding storms to come. Make sense?


Is America or Western society in general ready for a different model? I think we are ready, but unaware and unprepared. So in the end, I guess you say we are not, in fact, ready.

We wish.
We hope.
We dream.

But we often fail because we want it all for nothing.

Don't want to do the learning.
Don't want to do the work.
Don't want to endure some discomfort and pain. (No pain/no gain)

Things they are a-changin,' however.
 
Hi GroundedSpirit,

No, I didn't take your post the wrong way. I understand and appreciate what you are saying.

The expression "counting the cost" has been thrown around a lot between me and my gf during these experiences. We've paid dearly, as have some of the girls, for wanting to be different and idealistic. You are right. We do look naively at the poly-fi triad as an idealistic form of love.

It's interesting what you said about discomfort/pain, because the extent of the strain our decision has put on our families has been much greater than we had anticipated. Whereas we'd like to think of ourselves as being idealistic and pioneering, we're called "deviants" to our faces, and constantly threatened with disconnection and condemnation by our families. Both families are ultra-religious.

We are both strong-willed, so we have not given in, but our patience is wearing thin, and we wonder how long we can tolerate the situation. Also, we wonder if our current situation is even suitable for a triad, given such strong opposition and hostility from our parents. They do not accept us now, merely for having an idea. How much worse will it be, then, when we do get into a triad? And since we have yet to experience a triad, we have no idea whether its rewards will justify the costs in the end. We're standing up for a cause, but sometimes it feels like a blind cause.

In any case, we are currently in the process of disengaging and taking a breather... It actually feels kind of nice to slow down after the unpleasant roller coaster ride of the last nine months. Thanks for your advice.
 
amobrasil said:
But we are both strong-willed. We have not given in, but our patience is wearing thin, and we wonder how long we can tolerate the situation. Also, we wonder if our current situation is even suitable for a triad, given such strong opposition and hostility from our parents. They do not accept us now, for merely having an idea. How much worse will it be, then, when we do get into a triad? And since we have yet to experience a triad, we have no idea whether its rewards will justify the costs, in the end. We're standing up for a cause, but sometimes it feels like a blind cause.

In any case, we are currently in the process of disengaging and taking a breather... It actually feels kind of nice to slow down after the unpleasant roller coaster ride of the last nine months. Thanks for your advice!
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Hey Amobrasil,

I'm glad you took that first post in the spirit it was offered. It's always so easy to misinterpret words, or read between the lines.

I think many people eventually come across something in their lives that they feel passionately about, feeling it's a step forward, if not for everyone, at least for themselves. And when those things go against the grain, we're forced to really sit down and address this cost equation you speak of.

Sometimes the principle is so important we're willing to bear that cost. And when it comes to parents and other family, we get confused, because there's family you are born into, and family you choose, or build. Whether one is more important than another will vary with the individuals. In an ideal world, we'd get to have both, but we don't live in an ideal world, so sometimes we have to make choices.

As far as the gains of a triad, etc., I don't think you can even limit it that way. A triad is only one possible configuration of a poly lovestyle. They may well be the most rare to build successfully. So you really have to make these choices with a bit wider philosophical window. It's not about a particular configuration. It's about non-monogamy. That's where the challenge comes in. If you can stand up on your stump and state boldly "Monogamy is not for me," and live with the (often temporary) fallout from that, I personally believe the gains will be significant in the long run for you, and everyone you touch. But yeah, you do have to live with the fallout.
 
I read the initial post, and none that followed. Sorry, it's the ADD.

Anyway, my wife and I are open about our polyamory. We don't hide it from anyone. However, if someone who could potentially harm our family dynamic began asking questions, we would be (understandably) guarded and try to "hide" the truth, until said person had also revealed their true reason for the inquisition. If they have heinous intentions, or possibly could, we would wait to reveal or open fully, until we had info which could potentially harm them, as much as this info could harm us. Basically, if someone else wants to know, they have to be in our close circle, or virtually have no reason to want to harm us in any way, or be unable to harm us in any way.

Tough one.

Question: why only unicorns? Is it an OPP (one-penis policy)? Or is your gf welcome to seek out men, as well?
 
It sounds to me like things happened a little too fast. If you want to only be involved with people who are out of the closet, that's one thing. If you choose to help people come out of the closet, that is another. These things take time, understanding parties, really examining if it`s in someone's best interest, and how to handle rebuttals.

There are many shades of grey. I'm almost embarrassed for anyone who thinks it boils down to 'weak-willed people.' It sounds to me like it boiled down to caring, frightened people who didn't have the tools and abilities to cope with the backlash. They probably lacked the resources of experienced-conviction to handle the onslaught.

'Strong-willed' people are made fools of anytime they debate something they lack experience in.

As for America, I haven`t a frickin' clue. We`re not all American, so I have no comment there.
 
Hi TL4everu2, I hear you. We actually specifically told Mia not to tell her mother, but she did it anyway, and the consequences were dire and things got really ugly. Apparently she had a great relationship with her mother until that point, so she thought that her mother would be happy for her, as naive as that sounds. I agree with you that there is no need for everyone to know.

As for your question, it was my gf's decision to pursue the triad, specifically the FFM. Before I met her, I didn't even know there was such a thing as polyamory. She did the research and we discussed it at length, and it took me some time to get comfortable with the idea. Anyway, she has a definite preference for women and does not find (most) men attractive, so FMM seems highly unlikely, even though we have never ruled out the possibility.
 
SourGirl,

Ah, you're right. We should be more compassionate toward these women. I apologize if my words came across as harsh. In the heat of the moment, it is difficult to see that not everyone is alike, and we all have our unique strengths and weaknesses. We need to do better. We will try to keep your advice in mind. Thanks. And I agree, we need to slow down.

As for America, it probably doesn't help that I live in the Bible Belt. In recent years, America has back-pedaled into conservatism, inflamed by opposition toward "liberal agendas" such as gay marriage. FOX news, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck come to mind when I think about who is shaping the ideas and opinions of the nation. We have actually thought about moving to another state, such as California. But again, it's the cost versus rewards issue. For the pursuit of a lifestyle and perceived benefits, how far does one go? This is a question which we have not yet answered to ourselves. But, I think, with time and reflection, everything will sort itself out in the end.
 
Why rush the "coming out party"? It reads like you met them, they liked you and they came out.

I don't introduce my gf to my mother the second we meet. There is a growing period where people can see it working to build stability. This feels like everyone is so hopped up on being excited, they are throwing it in the face of people that care about them.

There is a responsibility to being involved that can require some discretion. Throwing alternate living choices in the face of the people that care most is a sure-fire way to engage people's protectiveness, especially when kids are involved. That's the most shocking thing. It's pure logic that this isn't going to fly in the face of the legal system.

This isn't a weak-willed people situation, it is people not realizing the reality of life.

Maybe, with the next person you get involved with, you should (or they should, since I am not sure where the pressure comes from) show some restraint and patience. This isn't a "being open and honest" thing. I am openly everything with my mother, but I am not going to throw my life in her face. It's just not polite. Introduce the situation slowly, show that it is stable and loving, etc. Maybe that will get you farther.
 
amobrasil said:
Ah, you're right. We should be more compassionate toward these women. I apologize if my words came across as harsh. In the heat of the moment, it is difficult to see that not everyone is alike, and we all have our unique strengths and weaknesses. We need to do better. We will try to keep your advice in mind, thanks. And I agree, we need to slow down.

As for America, it probably doesn't help that I live in the Bible Belt. In recent years, America has back-pedaled into conservatism, inflamed by opposition toward "liberal agendas" such as gay marriage. FOX news, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck come to mind when I think about who is shaping the ideas and opinions of the nation. We have actually thought about moving to another state such as California, but again, it's the cost versus rewards issue. For the pursuit of a lifestyle and perceived benefits, how far does one go? This is a question which we have not yet answered to ourselves.
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Weak-willed was suggested to you, so my embarrassment wasn`t directed at you, though compassion for the women who had the bravery to even attempt to be out, would probably help your hearts heal a bit.

Give yourself time. Let yourself feel testy, and frustrated, but only for a bit. Whether it's worth the effort is something that remains to be seen for your future. Please remember that we only ever truly learn from our mistakes.

Think of polyamory, not as a battle, but maybe like a car restoration. Tweak and tune-up here and there. Modify as need be. Cruise when able.
 
amobrasil said:
Hi TL4everu2, I hear you. We actually specifically told Mia not to tell her mother, but she did it anyway, and the consequences were dire and things got really ugly. Apparently she had a great relationship with her mother until that point, so she thought that her mother would be happy for her, as naive as that sounds. I agree with you that there is no need for everyone to know.

As for your question, it was my gf's decision to pursue the triad, specifically the FFM. Before I met her, I didn't even know there was such a thing as polyamory... She did the research and we discussed it at length, and it took me some time to get comfortable with the idea. Anyway, she has a definite preference for women and do not find (most) men attractive, so FMM seems highly unlikely, even though we have never ruled out the possibility.
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Very good. I was just wondering. All too often, I see couples in an OPP relationship, where, even if the woman WANTED to see another man, it would not be allowed. I can't stand it when people are like that.
 
I agree about the rushing bit. Being ready and solid in one's foundation with loves seems to mean getting over the rough part of coming out. NRE has a way of making people think that everyone will be SOOOO on board with everything. Nope. Doesn't happen that way most of the time, it seems.
 
Ariakas said:
Why rush the "coming out party"? It reads like you met them, they liked you and they came out.
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Hi Ariakas,

You are right. That is exactly what happened. After the first disaster, we asked the subsequent girls to not come out, but they did it anyway. I can only guess, but I'm thinking it's partly due to the novelty of poly, and partly due to the desire to seek approval from their loved ones, so that they won't have to feel guilty. At least now, we have anecdotal stories we can share in order to force the people to think more carefully about the consequences before coming out.

In any case, I agree with you. I think there's a time and place for everything, and the beginning is not the best time to come out. I think we will be more forceful in the future about communicating this fact.
 
redpepper said:
Being ready and solid in ones foundation with loves seems to mean getting over the rough part of coming out. NRE has a way of making people think that everyone will be SOOOO on board with everything. Nope. Doesn't happen that way, most of the time.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's too bad we had to find out the hard way. But live and learn, right? Thanks for the advice!
 
You are right, Amobrasil, level-headed people that don't need too much approval are rare. Which is why I thought it a shame, after having talked to our unicorn, that she was the typical, "Well, whatever works for you guys." She wasn't a bisexual when I met her, either.

So possibly you could broaden your search to non-bisexuals. You basically just need to meet a lot of girls and find ones that are good, and go from there. I wouldn't go out looking for poly or bi people as my main criteria, because they often don't fit the mould anyhow and are a rare species. Many women are interested in trying things with other women, but wouldn't list themselves as bisexual, or even think of themselves as bisexual.

If you approach it logically you'll have a greater chance of finding someone, I feel. Also, I'd look at those 3 "encounters" you've had as growing experiences for you and your gf. You may think they have been a waste of time, but in reality, it's honing your skills.
 
The majority of poly people, I would say, aren't willing to face the judgment of their families and friends. I see no weakness in this, even though we are "out." I see practicality and a desire to maintain friends and family. Just my observation. It's easy to say people are weak if you're not in their shoes. Just saying.
 
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