Is it too late?

Hi all,

I don't post often and tend to read a lot, but I need help.
Some background: I am happily married for 27 years, I am in a 6 year relationship with a man who is also married to his wife for 34 years. She and her boyfriend of eight years ended their relationship over a year ago, his decision.
I knew that when her relationship ended with her boyfriend that my own relationship with my boyfriend (her husband) would change. That I would see him less (Up until that point I was with him every weekend) and perhaps dynamics would also change.
I must admit that the last few months have been especially hard...too much time with the three of us, not enough couple time with the two of us.
Twice, she has gotten upset with me saying she feels like a third wheel around me, that she feels like she can't express herself in her own home...things like that. These outbursts have come completely out of the blue as I do everything in my power to always be aware that I am in her home and am very conscious to include her in most everything. To the detriment of my relationship with my boyfriend.
This past month I seem to have completely withdrawn from both of them. I am exhausted. Ironically, I have always felt like an outsider when I'm with the two of them and that I do not have a safe space to express my feelings in their home as I'm afraid that she will immediately start to cry and tell me that she feels like she can't be herself in her own home.
In order to avoid this, I'm now refusing to actually go to their home when the both of them are there.
I really don't know where to go from here. I love my boyfriend very much. But my mental health is really suffering. I told him that I need to have more alone quality time with him. That when I am functioning on an emotional deficit that I have trouble functioning in a healthy way when the three of us are together since I am more vulnerable to my own fears and insecurities. I told him that I believe our relationship needs a safe space to grow and where we can actively be ourselves and show our affection for one another. This is not possible around his wife. He and I both seem to feel some sort of guilt although we have not done anything wrong.
He has agreed that we need to spend more quality time together. But I need to know how to move forward with his wife. She knows that I am in a bad headspace right now but I haven't told her the details.

Should I go to therapy to deal with this? Is it an issue of boundaries? Do I have a right to ask for boundaries around mine and my boyfriends relationship?

I don't know what to do :(
 
Is it an issue of boundaries? Do I have a right to ask for boundaries around mine and my boyfriends relationship?
Most likely, yes - boundaries, and flat out scheduling.

From the outside it reads actually pretty simple - figure out how much alone time you need with your boyfriend and ask him out. Spend that time elsewhere. Do not spend a majority of weekends at their house.
She knew what to do with her weekend time before, so for sure she can figure out what to do with her time now. Maybe not all the time as used to since they will want to spend some of their weekends together, and maybe she won't be willing to leave her own home as much, so you'll have to find other options - but you're certainly "allowed" to ask for time with your boyfriend, even if she doesn't have another relationship to entertain her.
So have the conversation with her (or maybe he can have it), tell her that you've noticed that she's uncomfortable when it's the three of you and that you're uncomfortable too - and ask to please understand that you will be taking some time together elsewhere now.
What's your guilt about? Ask it to justify itself, and if it can't, release it...

But, you know, of course it's easier said than done, negotiating with metamours can be hard --- and I totally suck at it :eek: So maybe you should not listen to my advice.
 
Thank you Tinwen! I very much appreciate your advice :)

I'm not sure where the guilt is coming from...that we are happy with each other, and feel bad about that?

I like how you worded our need to spend time alone together, where my anxiety lies is when we all spend time together in their home because there will be times that we do...how to gently enforce boundaries that have never been acknowledged or respected before?
 
First off, anything I say might not work, considering my less than three months of experience with poly.

Okay, so I'd say to instead of trying to spend more time with your boyfriend, spend time with his wife. When he's out of the house visit her and discuss. Sit down, have a cup of tea, and tell her where your worries have been coming from and ask about hers. Make sure y'all understand what eachother are saying and accept. Set up some boundries and discuss those with your boyfriend later. Also, you may want to build up a friendship with her and gain her trust-than the both of you won't feel like a third wheel.
 
I understand that he needs to be there for his wife after her breakup, but it is unfair of her to assume that he should have more time for her simply because she no longer has a boyfriend. I am unsure as to why you made the same assumption.

She is grieving so I would chalk up the lashing out to that. I think you are right to give her some space. In the meantime I hope your BF becomes a better hinge.
 
Hi stillfiguringthingsout,

The sense I get is that you should spend as little time as possible around your boyfriend's wife. When you do have to spend time around her, be polite, but not overly chummy. This might change later, but right now you and she are at odds with each other, and being around each other is just aggravating the both of you. So try to reduce how much you interact with her. And try to get together with your boyfriend away from their home, whenever you can. Maybe he can come over to your house sometimes.

I could be wrong of course ... :eek: ... but let this post be food for thought. I hope it helps a little.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Just pointing out that OP said the wife broke up with her b/f over a year ago, so it seems to me like she should be beyond needing her husband to spend all of her free time with her because she can't figure out what to do with herself when she has down time.

Bottom line, your b/f (her husband) needs to put his foot down and set some time aside for just you if he really wants to make the relationship work. Just because the wife is free, doesn't now mean that she gets to invite herself into your date space. And yes, it's her home and she can do what she wants in her home, but go watch a movie in another room, chill out in some space on your own where you all don't just have to hang out together, etc.
 
I don't think it's necessarily true that the wife is relying too much on her husband right now to the detriment of the OP's relationship. Maybe she just doesn't want someone over at her house every weekend?

As I said before, why doesn't the OP and her boyfriend go to HER house?
 
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The breakup happened over a year ago. The emotional crisis should be past and all parties should be well on their way toward healing, if not there already. But that's not what's happening. I think there's are different issues in play here. My advice is to ask your gut, your bf and his wife what's really going on here. And let the answers inform your choices.
 
To my mind, people don't actually have a relationship until they face an actual crisis, & work together to solve their way out of it, to mutual benefit. If they can't do that, there was never "a relationship" except in a superficial sense.

One way or the other, it does sound like "couple first" thinking: "Now I don't have a boyfriend, so you don't get to have a girlfriend."

Nonmonogamy, sure. Open marriage. But they clearly are NOT polyamorous.

Let's say she finds a new boyfriend. Your boyfriend then expects to pick up right where you left off. Knowing that the whole scenario will probably be repeated, is this acceptable to you? Are you going to able to pretend none of this actually happened, & that you are solely responsible for any distress you might feel? How is this melodrama not affecting your marriage?
 
I don't think it's necessarily true that the wife is relying too much on her husband right now to the detriment of the OP's relationship. Maybe she just doesn't want someone over at her house every weekend?

As I said before, why doesn't the OP and her boyfriend go to HER house?

^ Yes, unless I missed OP's response before, there seems to be at least one giant unanswered question, and that is why don't you (stillfiguringthingsout) and your boyfriend conduct your dates elsewhere? :confused:

Is it because your own place isn't conducive to having a guest (in particular one who is a lover) over? Perhaps you share you space with another lover, relatives, small children (?)
EDIT: Oh yes, I see you are in a long-term marriage. I assume your husband is on board with polyamory, knows your lover (or knows of him) and is fine with the arrangement, in which case my question still stands: why can you not divide your time with your bf between his+wife's home and your own, or better yet, find some neutral ground?

The other issue, to my mind is... why is your bf allowing this situation to drag on?
- Does he simply not notice the discomfort and tension developing between the two women in his life, or think it's no a big deal?
- Or does he actively - if subtly or even unconsciously - enjoy being the direct focus of this kind of attention (women "vying" for his love)?
- Is he somehow setting up a situation he suspects one or the other of you won't tolerate because he secretly no longer wants to be in one (or the other) relationship anymore, but is too non-confrontational to address his changing needs directly, and hopes either you or his wife will bring matters to a head (*ahem!*)

The breakup happened over a year ago. The emotional crisis should be past and all parties should be well on their way toward healing, if not there already. But that's not what's happening. I think there's are different issues in play here. My advice is to ask your gut, your bf and his wife what's really going on here. And let the answers inform your choices.

Exactly what I am wondering (addressed above).

There is also the possibility your bf and his wife are engaged in a manipulative or co-dependent relationship that wasn't so obvious when the wife had another lover to occupy her time. Does he defer to her often? Whose idea was it to spend all your "couple time" at THEIR place? Why is this not being renegotiated if both you and his wife are uncomfortable?

To my mind, people don't actually have a relationship until they face an actual crisis, & work together to solve their way out of it, to mutual benefit.

Let's say she finds a new boyfriend. Your boyfriend then expects to pick up right where you left off. Knowing that the whole scenario will probably be repeated, is this acceptable to you?

I second Ravencroft's entire post... especially that last paragraph.

It is not necessarily an unsolvable situation, depending on his/their motivations, however I'm baffled as to why nobody, especially your boyfriend - the hinge here - is actually trying to come up with a workable solution.
 
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That's the plan now. Previously he preferred that I go to his place as he lives in the city and there is more to do. I have told him that I need more alone time with him and that we can spend that time at my place. He agreed, so we'll see what happens.
 
Why can't the two of you spend time at YOUR home?

That's the plan now, it was always an option in the past however he preferred I go to his place as he lives in the city and there is more to do.

Unfortunately now, it is less an option and more a necessity for my mental health and the health of our relationship. He agrees that we need more quality time alone so we'll see what happens.
 
First off, anything I say might not work, considering my less than three months of experience with poly.

Okay, so I'd say to instead of trying to spend more time with your boyfriend, spend time with his wife. When he's out of the house visit her and discuss. Sit down, have a cup of tea, and tell her where your worries have been coming from and ask about hers. Make sure y'all understand what eachother are saying and accept. Set up some boundries and discuss those with your boyfriend later. Also, you may want to build up a friendship with her and gain her trust-than the both of you won't feel like a third wheel.


DaveedDiggsIsAngel...sort of like, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? In theory I can understand why you would think that would work with two rational, mature adults. Unfortunately it is not working in this case. We have been friends for over 6 years. I have never done anything to abuse her trust as I always honor the boundaries around her relationship with her husband. Unfortunately she does not seem to recognize my need for her to respect my relationship as well. I will sit down with her and have a discussion on how her behaviour makes me feel. Trust me, I'm not looking forward to it. But I don't see how we can go forward otherwise because up until this point everything has been about her. Her wants and needs. And I am done with that.
 
I understand that he needs to be there for his wife after her breakup, but it is unfair of her to assume that he should have more time for her simply because she no longer has a boyfriend. I am unsure as to why you made the same assumption.

She is grieving so I would chalk up the lashing out to that. I think you are right to give her some space. In the meantime I hope your BF becomes a better hinge.

Thank you Vinsanity, I know he is trying. I'm not sure why I made the same assumption...I guess I just figured as his wife she gets first dibbs on him and his time.
She did have a very difficult time and I have been supportive and patient. But it's been over a year. The outbursts happened in the last 2 months...honestly I see it as her showing her displeasure that I'm still around. Although she says she is perfectly happy with everything I think deep down she wants to resume her marriage with her husband, without me.
I shared my fears with my boyfriend and he reassures me that no matter how she feels that our relationship is important to him and she will have to learn to live with it. He tells me that they have discussions along this line and she has never mentioned closing their marriage. I know what I feel, I just don't know how to move forward with this because I don't think everyone involved is being honest.
 
Hi stillfiguringthingsout,

The sense I get is that you should spend as little time as possible around your boyfriend's wife. When you do have to spend time around her, be polite, but not overly chummy. This might change later, but right now you and she are at odds with each other, and being around each other is just aggravating the both of you. So try to reduce how much you interact with her. And try to get together with your boyfriend away from their home, whenever you can. Maybe he can come over to your house sometimes.

I could be wrong of course ... :eek: ... but let this post be food for thought. I hope it helps a little.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.


Thank you Kevin, that's what I'm trying to do. Until I feel comfortable enough to share my feelings in a rational manner, I'm trying to limit my time with her. We will need to sit and chat, I feel the future of my relationship depends on it. But for now, I'm keeping my distance.
 
Just pointing out that OP said the wife broke up with her b/f over a year ago, so it seems to me like she should be beyond needing her husband to spend all of her free time with her because she can't figure out what to do with herself when she has down time.

Bottom line, your b/f (her husband) needs to put his foot down and set some time aside for just you if he really wants to make the relationship work. Just because the wife is free, doesn't now mean that she gets to invite herself into your date space. And yes, it's her home and she can do what she wants in her home, but go watch a movie in another room, chill out in some space on your own where you all don't just have to hang out together, etc.

Breathemusic, she very much invites herself into our space. They have a large house and we could very easily not run into each other when we are all there. She comes up and watches tv with us, comes outside when we are outside. Any attempt at having alone time is completely ignored by her. And as it has been mentioned several times, it is HER home. How can I ask for space with my boyfriend when I'm in her home? Is it unreasonable to want some boundaries? As you can see there are none, which is why I have refused to go their home any more.
 
To my mind, people don't actually have a relationship until they face an actual crisis, & work together to solve their way out of it, to mutual benefit. If they can't do that, there was never "a relationship" except in a superficial sense.

One way or the other, it does sound like "couple first" thinking: "Now I don't have a boyfriend, so you don't get to have a girlfriend."

Nonmonogamy, sure. Open marriage. But they clearly are NOT polyamorous.

Let's say she finds a new boyfriend. Your boyfriend then expects to pick up right where you left off. Knowing that the whole scenario will probably be repeated, is this acceptable to you? Are you going to able to pretend none of this actually happened, & that you are solely responsible for any distress you might feel? How is this melodrama not affecting your marriage?
I couldn't agree with you more Ravenscroft. We have faced numerous crisis in our 6 years together and I must tell you, they all revolve around his wife.
Her 8 year relationship was very tumultuous and dramatic. Breaking up and getting back together again and everything that is attached to that.
I guess when I hit rock bottom this time I realized that I can't actually go on like this. That she has all the control in my relationship, which I have given her. And I need to get it back.
Letting my BF know how I feel was the first step. Telling him what I need to move forward was very difficult for me. More alone time with him. Less time with the three of us. All of this has just happened in the last 3 weeks so I/we are taking baby steps moving forward. The big stress now will be sitting down with his wife, who never hesitates to tell us how she is feeling, regardless of any repercussions her words may cause. It's like she explodes and I am hit with her verbal shrapnel. And then everything is ok because she got it off her chest, problem is, nothing changes, no constructive sharing of feelings, no plan to try to understand, no desire for change. No give and take. Things continue as they were until the next explosion...and this cycle continues...it has for years. Well now, she's going to sit down and listen to my feelings. Trust me I am doing a huge amount of self analysis, asking myself why I'm feeling and reacting this way. I am taking full responsibility for my part in this. I need her to take full responsibility for hers. I just don't know if that will happen. Or what I will do if it doesn't.
 
^ Yes, unless I missed OP's response before, there seems to be at least one giant unanswered question, and that is why don't you (stillfiguringthingsout) and your boyfriend conduct your dates elsewhere? :confused:

Is it because your own place isn't conducive to having a guest (in particular one who is a lover) over? Perhaps you share you space with another lover, relatives, small children (?)
EDIT: Oh yes, I see you are in a long-term marriage. I assume your husband is on board with polyamory, knows your lover (or knows of him) and is fine with the arrangement, in which case my question still stands: why can you not divide your time with your bf between his+wife's home and your own, or better yet, find some neutral ground?

The other issue, to my mind is... why is your bf allowing this situation to drag on?
- Does he simply not notice the discomfort and tension developing between the two women in his life, or think it's no a big deal?
- Or does he actively - if subtly or even unconsciously - enjoy being the direct focus of this kind of attention (women "vying" for his love)?
- Is he somehow setting up a situation he suspects one or the other of you won't tolerate because he secretly no longer wants to be in one (or the other) relationship anymore, but is too non-confrontational to address his changing needs directly, and hopes either you or his wife will bring matters to a head (*ahem!*)



Exactly what I am wondering (addressed above).

There is also the possibility your bf and his wife are engaged in a manipulative or co-dependent relationship that wasn't so obvious when the wife had another lover to occupy her time. Does he defer to her often? Whose idea was it to spend all your "couple time" at THEIR place? Why is this not being renegotiated if both you and his wife are uncomfortable?



I second Ravencroft's entire post... especially that last paragraph.

It is not necessarily an unsolvable situation, depending on his/their motivations, however I'm baffled as to why nobody, especially your boyfriend - the hinge here - is actually trying to come up with a workable solution.
Lunabunny,

You are very thorough :)

I don't know if you saw in my previous responses but I went to his home because he preferred it and before, when his wife had a boyfriend and we were all together, issues would come up occasionally but generally we all got along. It's just since her break up that things have become so challenging.

I believe they do have a co-dependent relationship. He has deferred to her since I've known them, always putting her first, regardless of how she treated him. Personally, I think they have an incredibly unhealthy relationship, but hey, I'm not really an objective party in this so who really knows?
I have urged him to suggest therapy so that they could deal with the issues in their marriage. I don't know if anything will come of that.
My boyfriend will never leave her. He takes his commitment very seriously. And he has told me that he needs me in his life and will do what is necessary to work on our relationship. So now I figure the next step is the discussion that needs to take place...with the 3 of us.

Any suggestions on how I should start that? I truly want to be able to have a healthy relationship with her, I think it is important to my boyfriend and obviously it would mean I would have more time with him. Maybe not alone time, but still time.

I need her to respect my relationship with him, recognize that it is just as important to me as her relationship is to her. Married or not, our commitment to each other is real. I am very willing to not have any contact with her at all. But in the long run I believe it would eventually kill my relationship with my boyfriend.

I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to approach this conversation...about boundaries, and respect.
 
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