Is my jealousy justified?

[MarBear]

Hi, I'm a poly newbie. Here is a little background about my boyfriend and I and our relationship. We've been together over a year. I do tend to get very jealous and the only effective way I have found to combat this is to get to know the girls he likes. It makes me feel better knowing a) they know I exist b) they know I'm crazy about him and c) I know they are a nice person and seem to like me too. Mostly me feeling like we like each other and get along makes me feel secure.

I believe I feel this way because once he did leave me for another person who told him he had to stop seeing me to be with her. She did not like me because of my lifestyle choices and I feel like she intentionally stole him from me, though I also recognize he had a choice in this as well. We had recently had some bumps in our relationship when all this happened that may have contributed to his decision. Ever since this time I feel especially territorial, but as I mentioned I've found a way to help with it. All this drama happened in about Aug-Sept of last year. We got back together when she decided she didn't want to sleep with him.

Because of this I asked for some boundries from him and he agreed. I asked him that if there is any girl he wants to sleep with regularly to just let me have met her first. I also generally take it upon myself to get to know any girl I can tell he has an interest in (he's pretty obvious about it)

My boyfriend has started seeing another girl who lives in NY and we are in the midwest. All 3 of us are dancers and he only sees her when they both meet up at dance events. I find myself feeling very jealous everytime I see him texting her or anything because I have not met her or talked to her at all. I feel like he is not respecting the boundaries he agreed to. He met her at a dance event we went to together and then messaged her for a while. I found out the day before he left he was going to NY to see her, which was the first time they slept together, even though he knew he was going for a good 2 weeks before he told me. I found out again he was going to meet her in nashville, also the night before he left.

I have expressed my jealous feelings and my frustration to him and I don't believe he understands why I feel the way I do. I told him is he wanted to renegotiate our boundaries he could have talked to me about it first instead of just doing whatever he wanted. He has even gone to the point of telling me not to go to an event I already bought plane tickets for because he was going and she would be there and he doesn't want me around her. He has also expressed his feeling about why he doesn't want me around her but it is hard to put into words. Something to the effect that he doesn't want other peoples opinion of him to be affected by their opinion of me or things I tell them about him, good or bad.

Overall I am just trying to find a way to either combat this jealousy so I can live with him being with her and me not knowing her, or find a way to express how I feel in a way he might understand. I don't know if I deserve to feel this way or not since in my opinion he broke our agreed upon boundries without communicating with me about it.

Thanks for your help

 

[vinsanity0]

I don't think jealousy is ever justified.

Jealousy is caused by insecurity. You are insecure because you have trust issues. The trust issue is with your partner. You have figured out a band-aid solution by placing boundaries that make you feel in control of your partner's relationships.

Personally, I find your boundaries to be a little too restricting. I also think they place an undue burden on his partners to please you in order to be with him. That being said, he did agree to those boundaries. I agree he should talk to you about it.

What can he do to regain your trust that does not involve his partners or potential partners? Can he communicate with you without drama? I'm guessing he didn't tell you he was visiting her because he didn't want drama. Who does?

After talking you may find that the two of you aren't able to come to an agreement. Sometimes a compromise can't be reached and it's time to move on.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you deal in this. Are you sure this is jealousy? And not simply anger at your BF?

Because of this I asked for some boundries from him and he agreed. I asked him that if there is any girl he wants to sleep with regularly to just let me have met her first

Sounds easy. It's not like doing a 5 min Skype or phone call is hard. That's a reasonable compromise if meeting in person is not possible because of long distance. Is that what you meant? "Give me the heads up before it goes lover. I'd also like to meet them in person or over phone/skype."

If so? Your BF agreed to that and then your BF did not hold up his end of the stick.

Instead he made plans weeks in advance to do see her/share sex with her in New York. But didn't tell you he was traveling til the day before. And sounds like he didn't give you the heads up this was going lover.

Then he did the same thing again in Nashville.

And now he doesn't want you to attend a dance event you already bought tickets for.

He has even gone to the point of telling me not to go to an event I already bought plane tickets for because he was going and she would be there and he doesn't want me around her. He has also expressed his feeling about why he doesn't want me around her but it is hard to put into words. Something to the effect that he doesn't want other peoples opinion of him to be affected by their opinion of me or things I tell them about him, good or bad.

I could be wrong. But to me that sounds like he told you something like...

"I don't want you to go this event you already bought plane tickets for.

I don't want you to go because I am going and she would be there. And I don't want you around her.

I don't want you around her because I don't want her opinion of me to change because you tell her things about my behaviors."

Sounds like maybe he doesn't want either of you comparing notes. So who knows what story he's been selling her.

I have expressed my jealous feelings and my frustration to him and I don't believe he understands why I feel the way I do.

Have you considered that maybe he understands just fine? He just doesn't CARE if these behaviors bother you because it's no skin off his nose?

He does what he wants whenever he wants. You complain when it dings you repeatedly. But then you still stick around. So he really doesn't have to change any behaviors. He knows you will stick still around. He still has access to you and whatever services you provide him.

To me? You have given him 3 chances to get it together already and keep his Word/agreements with you.

• When you broke up in Aug/Sept and got back together with new agreements.
• When he did his NY trip and did not uphold agreements, but you stayed with him anyway.
• When he did this Nashville trip and did not uphold agreements, but you stayed with him anyway.

I think you could either dump him for good because you know he's flaky about keeping his Word and you cannot trust him. STOP sticking around even when he behaves poorly.

Or you choose to STOP expecting him to shape up. Instead you stick with him expecting new shenanigans because you already know he doesn't keep his Word. He says stuff, but doesn't follow through, and eventually pulls another stunt.

In your shoes? I'm not up for up and down drama. I like being able to trust a partner and being able to trust in their Word.

I'd end it and move on. You deserve to be treated well. Not be treated poorly. Attend your dance event and ignore/avoid either one of them and have a nice time on your own. You made your trip arrangements and he's not the boss of you. Go and have fun.

Galagirl

 

[MarBear]

Thanks for the imput

I don't think jealousy is ever justified.

Jealousy is caused by insecurity. You are insecure because you have trust issues. The trust issue is with your partner. You have figured out a band-aid solution by placing boundaries that make you feel in control of your partner's relationships.

I definitely agree I have trust issues. I do feel like he hides things from me a lot, which we have talked about. When he didn't tell me the first time when he was going to see her I told him I was more upset that he hid it from me. He has told me sometimes he doesn't tell me things because he fears what my reaction will be, to which I asked "don't you think my reaction will be worse when I not only find out, but I find out you lied to me" To which he agreed.

Personally, I find your boundaries to be a little too restricting. I also think they place an undue burden on his partners to please you in order to be with him. That being said, he did agree to those boundaries. I agree he should talk to you about it.

Its not like he tells them "hey she had to like you or this won't work". All he has to do is tell me, Hey I like this girl and might sleep with her" to which I make the effort to introduce myself, not even as his girlfriend (a lot of people are confused by this and turned off by it so I let him talk to them about it if he wants to), just in general.

What can he do to regain your trust that does not involve his partners or potential partners? Can he communicate with you without drama? I'm guessing he didn't tell you he was visiting her because he didn't want drama. Who does?

Honestly I just want to feel like he is honest with me and not trying to hide me from people. Do you think it is wrong for him to not tell his other partners he is poly? I know some people differ on this. I personally am very careful with who I tell.

After talking you may find that the two of you aren't able to come to an agreement. Sometimes a compromise can't be reached and it's time to move on.

You make it sound so easy, but it's not. I have never felt this way about someone ever before and I can't just give up on it that easy.

 

[vinsanity0]

Honestly I just want to feel like he is honest with me and not trying to hide me from people. Do you think it is wrong for him to not tell his other partners he is poly? I know some people differ on this. I personally am very careful with who I tell.

Yes, I do think that's wrong. I think a poly person should tell anyone they are seeing that they are poly. Where we differ is I don't have a need to meet my partners' partners, nor would I appreciate a demand to meet mine. I know some people are different and are into that. There is more than one way to do poly. That is why I mentioned compatibility. I know how hard it is to find out you are incompatible with someone you are in love with. But can you be happy with being unhappy?

 

[Marcus]

I am just trying to find a way to either combat this jealousy so I can live with him being with her and me not knowing her, or find a way to express how I feel in a way he might understand.

There's a lot going on in your post, so I'm going to just address the question above.

Jealousy is an emotion, and the word typically refers to the thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, concern and anxiety over an anticipated loss or status of something of great personal value, particularly in reference to a human connection.​

Jealousy is most often a figment of our imagination, it's just our irrational insecurity making us look like crazy assholes. However, if we can agree on the definition above, what you are experiencing is jealousy based on demonstrated behavior (ignoring the pervasive insecurity described in your post). That is to say, your partner has clearly demonstrated a pattern of behavior which makes your current expectations irrational.

This person is not going to behave in the way you hope they will. I say this... because they have clearly demonstrated this.

Adjust your expectations of their behavior, or adjust the nature of the relationship.

 

[Emm]

Because of this I asked for some boundries from him and he agreed.

I feel like he is not respecting the boundaries he agreed to.

I told him is he wanted to renegotiate our boundaries he could have talked to me about it first instead of just doing whatever he wanted.

... he broke our agreed upon boundries without communicating with me about it.

If someone tramples your boundaries and your response is "but you said you wouldn't!", then it's a rule, not a boundary. A boundary is your promise to yourself about how you will react to a situation, not something you impose on another. The best you can do with a boundary is let someone know where it is; it's up to them whether or not they respect it, but it's up to you how you respond if they don't.

In this case you made him aware of your boundaries and he chose to ignore them. What is your response to that? Is your boundary "I won't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't arrange for me meet their potential sex partners"? If that's the case, then his behaviour shows that you can't be in a relationship with this guy.

All that said, what constitutes "regularly" by your definition?

I asked him that if there is any girl he wants to sleep with regularly to just let me have met her first.

I found out the day before he left he was going to NY to see her, which was the first time they slept together, even though he knew he was going for a good 2 weeks before he told me.

If it was the first time they'd slept together then they weren't sleeping together regularly.

I found out again he was going to meet her in nashville, also the night before he left.

Twice doesn't make it regular, either. Perhaps he thought he was doing exactly what you'd asked for, and because she hadn't reached "regular" yet you wouldn't want to be told. If what you mean is "if there is any girl he wants to sleep with to just let me have met her first", then that's what you need to tell him. Leave "regularly" out of it.

 

[polyciraptor]

My guess is that he feels restricted by his identity of being together with you, and he likes how this other lady makes him feel. He wants to keep him-with-you and him-with-her, separate.

This is not entirely unusual. With each of my partners, I am slightly different, they bring out different things in me. My older partners learn new things about me, from seeing me with new partners - we talk about different things, we do different things that I don't do with my older partners.

The only problem is if he is behaving like he is two completely different people around the two partners, and he cannot reconcile who he is when both of you are present.

That's HIS problem.

The other issue could be that he's lying to the other lady. Either he hasn't told her about you at all; or he's told her a heavily tainted version of you that is all nagging and jealous and bad. Neither of these fantasies would hold up if the other lady met you in person.

I second the poster who said just go to the dance event, and have a good time without worrying about him and his messes. You paid for it. He had already planned it - he could have mentioned it BEFORE you bought tickets. Don't stay with him while you're there, as he planned this to be his little getaway with her. Don't cling to him. Be your own person while you're there, explore your own connections. Perhaps find out who you are when you're away from him and don't expect him to do things that you've already seen he's not going to do.

Whether your jealousy is "valid" or not is not a useful question. Jealousy is just a thing that happens. The useful question is, "does this person respect my feelings?" Does he care about you and your happiness - even if he can't meet what you need, if he cares, he should be able to admit that he just can't do it, and *not agree*.

And if you can't agree on boundaries that both of you are willing and committed to keeping, then, well, maybe you should indeed break up.

You're unhappy right now.

It isn't a big deal for someone to meet/have a 5 min call with someone's primary/nesting partner. Of course it *is* a deal breaker for some!

In my marriage, if I'm dating a guy, my husband wants to meet him before we have sex. This is partly so we both find out if the guy is a douche to my husband, in which case, bullet dodged. (I can also get a bit obsessed with the dick, and feel terrible if I find out I had sex with a douche.) If he's dating a lady, I don't really care if I meet her before they have sex, but I want to know about it the next day, and if he's seeing her again, I want to meet her to check that she will not damage his mental health. (Although in the past I wanted the lady to call me just so they'd know no he wasn't cheating, yes it's a happy marriage, yes he can do all the dating and romance stuff you won't get shortchanged there.) And then with women he absolutely trusts my judgement; and he doesn't fuck men.

In all my other relationships, it's not really my business, but I'd hope to meet my partners' other partners, probably within 2 months. And hopefully their closest friends.

And that said, I am extremely out of the closet, even my parents know. And whichever distant relatives are on my facebook. But I live in a very liberal city, and I'm a raging leftie and so are most of my friends.

 

[Magdlyn]

My longterm partner and I do not have a rule we need to meet each others new partners before they make out/grope or fuck each other. We are both grown ass adults and we value our independence and freedom to chose whom to date.

I do not need to meet her men in order to make sure they aren't assholes. I know her taste and I trust her judgment. Likewise, she feels the same way about meeting my newer partners. Besides, it's hard to predict or determine who is an asshole in a 1/2 hour coffee date or 5 minute phone call or texting convo. People do tend to put their best foot forward in new relationships.

Currently my partner has been seeing a man for 3 years. I have not met him once. She always goes to his place. He is an extremely private person and doesn't socialise with anyone but her and a few trusted family members. But from her own happiness and hearing about how he cares for her, I am totally chill about their relationship. Sure, I am curious. I would like to meet him. I am outgoing and friendly. But it's not a rule.

Metamours do NOT need to meet. If they meet they do NOT need to be friends. Heck, some poly newbies think 2 metamours NEED to be lovers, to be in a triad. All this is untrue. Metas do not need to meet. Poly can be successfully practiced without that.

I just hope your bf isn't going around telling potentials he is single.

Also, you've only been together a year. Remember what I said about putting your best foot forward at first? It sounds like his true personality is coming out. Proceed with caution. He might not be long term relationship material. Then again, your need to meet any woman he has an interest in might not be realistic either.

 

[Dagferi]

If one of my husbands started dating others, I wouldn't want to meet them or have a conversation with them. UNLESS there was an emergency with my patner.

Why because I can. That is my choice. I am not going to interfere in a relationship that is not my own. I am just very particular about who I socialize with.

I keep my relationships with my husbands very separate. It is none of Butch's business what is going on with Murf and vice versa.

 

[opalescent]

Sometimes one partner does not always tell the truth, or all of the truth, to the other partner because that partner is not a safe person to tell the truth to. Sometimes that can be physically unsafe. But more often, they are emotionally unsafe. They can make the first partner pay such a emotional price for honesty that the first partner very rationally decides not to tell the entire truth again.

The other aspect of this is that sometimes the first partner (the one with the thing to disclose) does not tell the entire truth because they do not want to hurt their partner. There is this ridiculous romantic notion that romantic partners are the one person(s) who will never hurt us. This is bullshit. While intentional cruelty is never ok, to be authentic, to be real with our loved ones requires hurting them. Stay with me - this is counter intuitive. We need to tell our truths to our partners to be authentic and truly intimate. Truth is often incredibly painful to hear (and painful to say.) It is hard to hear that one is not as attractive to a partner, that they want to start an entire new career that will require sacrifices on one's part, that they don't really want kids, that they want to fuck other people. They don't want to hurt their partners, which is understandable, and so don't tell things they actually need to.

Your partner should have let you in on what was going with him. I'm not excusing that. However, you know that famous line 'You can't handle the truth!'? You may have demonstrated to your partner that you really can't. If you are not safe to hear a partner's truth, they won't tell you no matter how much you ask them to. They know better.

Consider very carefully if you are safe for your partner to tell his hard truths to. I can't tell you if you are or are not. But think about the possibility.

And being safe means dealing personally with the pain caused by hearing truths. It means not taking that out on your partner, it means acknowledging that pain to you and him but not making it his problem to solve. In that instance, it's not. It's your burden to bear, to sort out. (That's another reason why truth telling is so hard. It requires difficult self-work to really hear a truth from another person.) His truth will hurt you and you will need to figure that out, but not with him. (I do strongly suggest working through this with another trusted person, a good friend, a therapist, etc.) Definitely try to build trust, to tell him your truths.

It might be that he is just untrustworthy. I also can't tell that either. Jealousy can be many things. It is often a sign of insecurity. But it can also be an early warning system that something is wrong. Now that can be something is wrong internally, or something is wrong with the relationship. It can be really difficult to sort out which aspect of jealousy is in play (and of course, there can be more than one thing going on.) For me, jealousy is almost always a sign that either my needs are not being met OR I fear that my needs won't be met.

One way to get at which aspects of jealousy may be at work in you is to ask yourself 'why?'. Why are you jealous? 'Because I don't trust him.' Why don't you trust him?' Because he lied to me? 'Why did he lie to you?' And so on and so on. Keep asking yourself why until you reach what feels like to you a rock bottom place where you cannot ask why anymore. Another way to do this is to play 'the worst case scenario'. Ok, my partner didn't tell me about this other person. What's the worst case scenario? 'He doesn't love me and will leave me.' What's the worst case scenario then? 'He leaves me and I'm alone and betrayed.' What's the worse case scenario then? And on and on to the point of absurdity. It will feel very stupid but it can get you quickly to what is really going on for you, why you feel insecure (if you do), etc. (I got this from Cunning Minx on the PolyWeekly podcast. I highly recommend that podcast.)

Best of luck.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi MarBear,

I think opalescent has the right idea here. You need to dig into your jealousy to find its root cause. And you must check your reactions so as to know if you can be told the truth without lashing out. Your boyfriend might be afraid of honesty.

Jealousy is always okay to feel. The thing to look at is how you react, and what you do, when you feel jealous. It's hard, but you want to remain calm, and talk softly about it.

I hope that helps,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.