It's a Texlahoma Story

My #2 was a response and encouragement for this :

But that is something I need to stop doing, assuming everyone is thinking and feeling the way I do about things! So. If a single guy messages me despite the fact that I'm married, doesn't balk when I casually mention my husband in texts, and still wants to go out with me? I'm just going to take it at face value, that he'd like to have a drink or two and get to know me.
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And the article was suppose to be a prospective on how dag might view breakup.

Some people see the EX in that old role .....the romantic desire is still there ....memories of the good time are still there ....and they relive the pain knowing what is / was lost. And let's be honest it makes a huge difference who broke up with whom.
There's plenty of woman I broke up with that I could easily be friends with and there's one woman who broke up with me ...." The one that got away " there was no way in hell I'd could do that.

Any tips on how to spot these guys so I can run far, far away

In all seriousness... That is my fear, and the reason I've never dated single guys. If "commitment phobic" just means they don't want to get married or have kids, then cool. But if it means they don't want to deal with me if I'm having a bad day, or have to bother showing up for my birthday? Been there, done that, and all I have left are a bunch of his t-shirts

My other big worry about single guys is sexual health stuff. Obviously married poly guys might have just as many or more current partners. But usually someone who has been in a poly/open marriage is at least used to disclosing other partners and safe sex practices. I worry that single men will have a "none of your damn business" attitude.

And I worry about health stuff. Not irrationally, but it's a concern. I'd like partners who were honest about their sex lives, because that lets me make good choices for myself. Someone only has sex with me and their mono wife? Ok, fluid bonding is something I'd consider. If instead that wife had 3 or 4 other partners, I'd keep the condoms on. I'll admit there's also a point - if someone was constantly adding new partners, or having frequent one night stands with strangers - where I'd pass on sex entirely, condoms aren't 100%. So, yeah, stuff I'd like to know.
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I'm not sure how spot these guys? I guess just assume 95% are like that. :D
Isn't that the mantra ...men are pigs

Yes commitment phobic meaning not wanting a wife and kids. Depending on the age bracket they may have done that and got burned. I don't think it necessarily mean not dealing if you're having a bad day. What kind of slob would blow off your birthday. I got vetoed because I gave " too nice of gifts " and our dates were " too " something. So I guess it swings both ways.
I will say it might be hard to getting " single guy " to formal event during the summer months.....weddings, showers, anniversary parties. Those things always seem to be a nice days when there are a million things you'd rather do.

I don't think the sexual health issue can be generalized as a group.

I think it's the character of the person and possibly you'd get a glimpse from the people they run with. Big drinkers, big parties better use condoms til you get a feel for how words and actions line up. One drunken bachelor can put a dent in a few lives.
 
dingedheart said:
My #2 was a response and encouragement . . . And the article was suppose to be a prospective on how dag might view breakup.

Some people see the EX in that old role .....the romantic desire is still there ....memories of the good time are still there ....and they relive the pain knowing what is / was lost.
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I can see how that could be true.

Personally, I've found it fairly easy to stay friends with many of my exes, but with some it had to be after a long period of no contact. It also depends on how/why we broke up. If there was crappy negative stuff that happened between us, I'd be less likely to want the friendship to stay intact. Of course, there were a few breakups where the guys were jerks and I just ran for the hills, and didn't want anything to do with them. But I have had some rather amicable, level-headed breakups due to incompatibility and we were adults about it and could still hang out. I prefer it that way.

dingedheart said:
And let's be honest it makes a huge difference who broke up with whom.
There's plenty of woman I broke up with that I could easily be friends with and there's one woman who broke up with me ...." The one that got away " there was no way in hell I'd could do that.
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Good point. It's hella easier to say let's be friends when you are the dumper, not so easy for the dumped.
 
dingedheart said:
Yes commitment phobic meaning not wanting a wife and kids. Depending on the age bracket they may have done that and got burned. I don't think it necessarily mean not dealing if you're having a bad day. What kind of slob would blow off your birthday. I got vetoed because I gave " too nice of gifts " and our dates were " too " something. So I guess it swings both ways.
I will say it might be hard to getting " single guy " to formal event during the summer months.....weddings, showers, anniversary parties. Those things always seem to be a nice days when there are a million things you'd rather do.
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What kind of slob would blow off my birthday... 2 years in a row... And then send me dozens of pictures of himself celebrating his wife's birthday... Hmmm... Seems I may know someone like that... ;)

(Not sure how much of this blog you've read, dingedheart, but yeah, that was my ex!)

See, the type of guy you described would be PERFECT for me. I don't need a husband, I have one, and he's also my date for weddings and showers and the like! I would just want to sometimes be invited along on one of the "million things" he likes to do. I don't want just a fuck buddy, a once a week have dinner and sex set up. I want a friend who actually enjoys spending time with me outside the bedroom, too.

Kind of funny in light of the comments on Reverie's blog...

I've often thought my ideal dream guy would be a divorced dad. One who is too busy with work and being a great parent to handle a full time monogamous relationship, but still wants to have a real girlfriend. I'm not going to push myself on his kids, or get annoyed if he spends almost all of his time and money on them... I'm not going to have any expectations about moving in or getting a ring... But I'm available for doing dinners, museums, concerts, hikes, weekend trips, whatever, with zero drama. Plus, I like (most!) kids, and taking them to the zoo and the park is like my favorite thing in the world, so if it did get to the meet-the-kids stage, yay!

And for me? Boyfriend with no metamour drama, of either the wife variety or the constant influx of new shiny girls variety. I see a lot of poly folk chafe at the idea of being a placeholder while someone looks for a "real" partner, but honestly, I think I'd be ok with that. Well - I wouldn't want to be the back up plan for someone who is also dating single, mono girls. But a guy who knew he'd want to get remarried someday, but was putting finding Ms. Right on hold for X time while he focused on other things? Yeah, sign me up. Trust me, Mr. Single Dad, no one gets wanting a life partner more than I do ;) so if you tell me it's time for you to start looking for one, I'll help with your okc profile!

But I never find that guy. They're out there, right? So maybe they just don't match with non-monogamous me on okc because poly isn't on their radar. Or maybe they're not out there, maybe they're the dude version of hot bi babes.
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
I've often thought my ideal dream guy would be a divorced dad. One who is too busy with work and being a great parent to handle a full time monogamous relationship, but still wants to have a real girlfriend. I'm not going to push myself on his kids, or get annoyed if he spends almost all of his time and money on them... I'm not going to have any expectations about moving in or getting a ring... But I'm available for doing dinners, museums, concerts, hikes, weekend trips, whatever, with zero drama. Plus, I like (most!) kids, and taking them to the zoo and the park is like my favorite thing in the world, so if it did get to the meet-the-kids stage, yay!
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Lol, I'd fall within that category if I were a guy! Seriously, that's what I have available, and like you, would like someone similar. Someone who understands that I can't do overnights all the time because I have a teen at home that I don't leave home alone over night...and won't leave overnight with her older brother, either...or bring newer partners home to stay while either of them are present. But, like you, I'm more than willing to do kid dates. Kids, teens, babies, I love them, too :) It just seems like the men around here who will date partnered women are just looking for sex and the women either won't date someone partnered, or only date as a "couple" with their guy :rolleyes:
 
dingedheart said:
....
I don't think the sexual health issue can be generalized as a group.

I think it's the character of the person and possibly you'd get a glimpse from the people they run with. Big drinkers, big parties better use condoms til you get a feel for how words and actions line up. One drunken bachelor can put a dent in a few lives.
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I disagree with this. A person's character doesn't have much to do with their STI status, except insofar as whether they get tested and whether they are honest about results. You don't have to be "sketchy" or "slutty" to have an incurable STI. And in fact you can have something like HSV for a very long time and have no idea, no symptoms, and even test negative. But still be carrying it, like a ticking time bomb. The bottom line is that whenever we have sex, especially with a new partner, we are rolling our dice and taking our chances.

It could be subconsciously that knowing this has made me more interested in virgin partners, or the very inexperienced. The risk there, is at least somewhat lower.

As for "the people they run with"...again, not necessarily much to do with anything. I "run with" the BDSM community. I know (well) at least one person who is out as having HSV-2, and another one who has HSV-1, and is poly, and I know one of her partners. For many of us, the community IS our dating pool...yet the thing is, most of us are more aware and honest about our status and able to take responsibility for ensuring people's safety.
 
Spork said:
I disagree with this. A person's character doesn't have much to do with their STI status, except insofar as whether they get tested and whether they are honest about results. You don't have to be "sketchy" or "slutty" to have an incurable STI. And in fact you can have something like HSV for a very long time and have no idea, no symptoms, and even test negative. But still be carrying it, like a ticking time bomb. The bottom line is that whenever we have sex, especially with a new partner, we are rolling our dice and taking our chances.

It could be subconsciously that knowing this has made me more interested in virgin partners, or the very inexperienced. The risk there, is at least somewhat lower.
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You know that most people catch HSV when they are young children, getting and giving sloppy kisses or sharing their snacks and drinks. So being a "virgin" wouldn't reduce the chance they have that.

As for subconsciously or consciously choosing a virgin for your recent partner, because of lower risk of him/her having an "incurable" STD, really? You know most people over, say, 25, who are virgins probably have, shall we say, lower social skills, are highly religious (generally Christian in our country), or are asexual. You just got lucky finding a shy, monkish, Buddhist, kinky man with a high libido and lots of book learning! lol Most STDs normally sexually active people have are curable, and he could have had HSV from childhood just as easily as anyone else.
 
Magdlyn said:
You know that most people catch HSV when they are young children, getting and giving sloppy kisses or sharing their snacks and drinks. So being a "virgin" wouldn't reduce the chance they have that.

As for subconsciously or consciously choosing a virgin for your recent partner, because of lower risk of him/her having an "incurable" STD, really? You know most people over, say, 25, who are virgins probably have, shall we say, lower social skills, are highly religious (generally Christian in our country), or are asexual. You just got lucky finding a shy, monkish, Buddhist, kinky man with a high libido and lots of book learning! lol Most STDs normally sexually active people have are curable, and he could have had HSV from childhood just as easily as anyone else.
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"at least somewhat lower" I believe I said? By no means was that intended to sound like some sort of an absolute.

Also, Zen is a fluke really, and I know this. And still a roll of the dice. Hell, I could have HSV and not know, just because I tested negative doesn't mean I'm absolutely for sure not carrying. It's common as hell and anyone can have it. I know this. I'm just not afraid of it enough to swear off sex. Really the only disease I've ever been scared of, is HIV. Anything else is pretty much curable or merely a nuisance (unless one is seeking to reproduce, and then of course there's a bigger picture.)

But I'm looking back at a long history, Old Wolf whom I married at age 18, was my 34th partner. Most of them prior to him were virgins from my high school. I look at the number of people I've been with (and often without protection) and find it statistically astonishing that I never caught anything...and yet I consider how many of them were boys in high school who hadn't had much opportunity...and maybe that makes the odds slightly less insane.

More importantly though...the people I have known who have confided in me that they had positive status for some STI or other...they were not drunk party people. They weren't sketchy. They were just ordinary people. Mostly I wanted to push back on dingedheart's assertion to consider character in judging whether someone might have an STI.
 
Spork said:
I disagree with this. A person's character doesn't have much to do with their STI status, except insofar as whether they get tested and whether they are honest about results.
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Yup! But the getting tested and being honest about it is a big deal to me.

Or, if you don't want to bother getting tested, cool, your body, but be honest about that too!

I don't want to over generalize, but the only people who've ever balked about my condoms unless/until testing policy have been single guys. Just a ridiculous "I'm not skanky! I don't have diseases! what do you take me for! are you calling me a slut?" attitude when I mentioned it :rolleyes: And honestly, if that's your attitude, I really don't want to have sex with you, condom or not.

I get that it's a pain in the ass, I do. And not cheap! The last time I nonchalantly told my gyno to "test for everything" she billed my insurance over $2500 :eek: But my body, my call on whether to get naked with somebody, and yeah, their attitude toward testing and safe sex does affect that decision.
 
Condoms are mandatory for any guy who wants to have sex with me. I'm not only protecting my own sexual health, and I take my responsibilities to my fluid-bonded partners seriously. We have a closed loop in that aspect, and I'm keeping it that way.

As for staying friends with exes... I've been in an ongoing debate about that lately. Both about staying platonic friends with exes, and about continuing to be sexual with them when opportunity presents if the breakup was due to extenuating circumstances (e.g. relocating, or schedules consistently not matching up, or something). I'm curious about others' thoughts... I probably oughta start a question thread somewhere, though, and not clutter GFT's blog.
 
Sooooo, I had my first date with Renaissance on Thursday night. I've been putting off writing about it because ... Well, because I don't know WHAT I feel.

He's awesome. He's cute, and crazy smart, and funny, and fascinating, and I've never met anyone who matched up so perfectly with me in the sexual desires department. And I think he likes me, too... We have a second date planned, we've been texting non stop, it's just generally perfect.

Except - he has a fiancé, who lives with him.

Now, she sounds like a truly kick ass person, and they "do poly" in pretty much the same exact way Andy and I do, which is very nice to find. So it's not an "ugh, awful metamour" type thing. It's just... Do I really want another relationship conducted in coffee shops and hotels? Another relationship where getting chill at home time means coordinating four or more schedules? I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

Because that was hands down the worst thing with Dag. Having to go out any time we wanted to see each other. And while his DADT mess didn't help the situation, it wasn't the only cause. It was really just an issue of not having our own space.

It's frustrating because it seems like I can see options, but they never pan out. Like maybe I'll get along really great with someone's wife, and/or my boyfriend will like Andy, and we can have hangout time while spouses are around! But that doesn't replace couple time. Plus, let's be honest, very few people want their metamour around all the time. I love Steph, but if she was at my house 2 nights a week, I'd lose my mind. So then I think, lake house! But it's a 90 minute drive from Dallas, so that means adding 3 hours driving to the time you get together... Most people don't have endless time.

That's where my head is right now. I REALLY like this guy, but I can already see ways in which the overall situation might stress me. And being me, I worry that if I try to just date him casually and see where it goes, I'll lose interest in dating others and fixate on him.

:confused::confused::confused:
 
As for okcupid ... Does no one read the profiles at all???

I get messages every day from hot, funny, smart single dudes. Nice messages. With good grammar and everything. But when I look at their profile, it says "monogamous" and "looking for single women". Sigh. I have actually replied to several in the past few days, friendly responses to whatever they talked about, with a "by the way, I noticed your profile specifically said single women and I'm not..." And they are always like, WTF? You're MARRIED?

Ugh ugh ugh. It says open relationship. I say "happily married" in my summary. I mention it AGAIN in the "message me if" section. I know you dudes can read, damn it! Why didn't you read? It's not even a long profile! JFC.

Yeah I'm frustrated can ya tell :rolleyes:
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
Except - he has a fiancé, who lives with him.

Now, she sounds like a truly kick ass person, and they "do poly" in pretty much the same exact way Andy and I do, which is very nice to find. So it's not an "ugh, awful metamour" type thing. It's just... Do I really want another relationship conducted in coffee shops and hotels? Another relationship where getting chill at home time means coordinating four or more schedules? I'm exhausted just thinking about it.
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Did he actually tell you he can't have you over his place or wouldn't want to go to yours? Did you ask about that or are you just assuming? Does his fiancée have a lover or lovers? You say they pretty much do poly the way you and Andy do, so why are you letting your thoughts go down the Dag Road of DADT and hotel-only trysts? Take a breath, and why not see what he has to offer.

I am excited for you, and glad you made a second date!
 
nycindie said:
Did he actually tell you he can't have you over his place or wouldn't want to go to yours? Did you ask about that or are you just assuming? Does his fiancée have a lover or lovers? You say they pretty much do poly the way you and Andy do, so why are you letting your thoughts go down the Dag Road of DADT and hotel-only trysts? Take a breath, and why not see what he has to offer.

I am excited for you, and glad you made a second date!
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He said they've never met each other's other partners, except for one time they both dated the same woman. Now, he said they'd be fine with meeting, so that's cool, but it doesn't sound like super cozy cuddle piles or anything.

Plus... I'd love to spend chill time with a meta, or hang out with a boyfriend while she's doing her own thing... Or have people over while Andy is around. But I don't think I'd ever be comfortable having sex with a meta in the same house. Or sleeping over while s/he is there.

I really don't know what most people do if both members of a couple live with other people :confused: Hotels is the only thing I've known folks to do, or use a vacation house, or have private time when a spouse travels for work.

I guess what I'm thinking is that I just don't feel "couple-y" with someone unless we get plenty of one-on-one down time. The domestic stuff, cooking dinner together, watching tv in our pjs, reading curled up in bed. Doing that stuff with their other partner, too - or with Andy - would be cool in its own way, but it wouldn't be what I need.

Lots of "hanging with my boyfriend and his wife" makes me feel like more of a friend than a girlfriend, and kills my sexual interest. Lots of hotels makes me feel like a hooker, and kills my self-esteem.

I'm not closing off the possibility of something awesome with Renaissance, not by any means! I'm just trying to be realistic. Because I'm afraid if I just go with it, after a few months of great sex, I'll get attach-y and weird and lose the perspective.
 
But you've read my blog so you know how Pixi and I do it. I often host bfs at our house, but Pixi is in another room, on another floor, or not home, or whatever. She has no issue with me having sex with another while she is somewhere in the house. We have 2 floors, it's private enough. Yes, she can hear my sex noises sometimes. So what? She has compersion and is happy someone is making me happy.

KC also spoke about having sex with her bf while his roommates were somewhere in the house. Similar. Go into a room, close the door.

And I've had 3 kids and I've had sex with their dad while the kids were home, even when they were teens!

Basically, sex is a fact of life in my life... I see no reason to need complete and utter hotel grade privacy to do it. (Not that I don't love hotel sex.)

I don't do "cuddle puddles" with Pixi and a bf. I used to... but then the guy would sometimes get to thinking he was just "that close" to having sex with both of us at once. And she did have a FWB thing with an ex of mine, but we have decided it's a much better idea not to do that anymore. It just gets weird. So, with my latest, sort-of-ex-bf Punk, we can all hang out. He and I sit on the couch, she sits in an easy chair. We can chat, we can have dinner together. We can all go out together sometimes. But when Punk and I are ready, we go off to the bedroom together, and Pixi does her thing.

Punk never spent the night, but a couple of my previous bfs have. She has no problem with me sleeping with a bf once a week or whatever. Or sometimes I'd entertain the bf, sex him down to sleep in the guest room, and spend the night with her even when he was there. It all depended, depends, will depend, on our moods.

A bf and I get "couple time" during sex, and often she stays busy doing her thing, and he and I have non-sexual couple time as well.

It's not that hard, really.
 
Hmmm maybe I am weird but having sex with a meta around would make me VERY uncomfortable. No matter how ok they were with it, I wouldn't be.

Friends, strangers, sure, I don't much care if they overhear. But there's something about it being another partner that I don't feel comfortable with. I would NEVER be ok with overhearing Andy with someone else. Or even walking by a closed door, knowing what was going on inside the room.

Plus I just like my privacy, in general. I don't want to be half dressed and sex drunk and moony around anyone other than the person who got me that way!

Of course, I'm also happy to disappear up to the lake place if Andy wants to use our house to entertain. An easy fix in that sense. (Well, also he's only dated women who live alone, so it's a rare issue.)

Like I said, I always have the lake place, for privacy, and soon that won't even mean a cramped tiny cabin! But convincing Dag to drive up here was like pulling teeth, and I worry same story with anyone.

Getting waaaay ahead of myself on this, though! Renaissance is super amazing but I'm by no means ready to jump into bed OR a relationship with anybody.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of maybe his fiancée goes off and spends the night with a lover of hers and you can go to his place when she's not there. I wasn't thinking she'd be in the next room, although that works for lots of people. Or he could come over to your place and stay the night when Andy is with one of his friend-girls. Or you guys go to the cabin. I mean, all those things are possible if they are more loose and open about poly than Dag was. Don't let those bad experiences and unfulfilled wishes color something that might be totally different. Renaissance sounds like a pretty cool guy!

It's okay to fantasize about the possibilities!
 
nycindie said:
It's okay to fantasize about the possibilities!
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Yes, it is!

This comment really resonated with me, though maybe in a very different way than it was intended...

Right now, despite the sexual chemistry and the friend chemistry, I have zilch in the way of relationship fantasies about Renaissance. I don't know if it's the partner thing, or maybe just that he is way edgier and more adventurous than my usual type (tattoos, earring, motorcycle, all the things I usually don't go for).

But I have fantasies of ... Someone. Someone who would invite me over for a takeout and movie night, or come up to the cabin to go hiking with me and the dogs, or take me out for a fancy dinner on my birthday.

It just isn't Renaissance in those fantasies.

And that's ok. It really is. I can date him, enjoy his company, even have crazy kinky sex with him if I want to, and still daydream about Someone. As long as I'm completely honest about not wanting anything exclusive, or being able to make big time commitments, I don't have to stop chatting with cute single guys on okc.

I have a lot of guilt feelings around that, but I need to work through them. Get past this idea that I am I a bad person for wanting to keep my options open, this feeling that I'm supposed to commit to any decent guy who will have me.
 
Like Mags said, my boyfriend has roommates. He has his own room. We close the door; problem solved. At my legal home, I have kids. Hubby and I have our own room. We close the door; problem solved.

But I'm with GFT on the subject of having sex with a partner when a *metamour* is present in the home. Hell, I'm still trying to decide whether I'd be comfortable visiting a partner's home for G-rated purposes if my metamour lived there. It's an entirely different thing, to me, than someone having kids or roommates; they aren't in a romantic/sexual relationship with their kids or roommates, but they are with their other partner.

I went on a date the other night with a guy who told me, after we said we wanted to keep seeing each other, that he would prefer to *always* host because "I don't want to walk into another man's home." That's kinda how I feel on the subject. (Only replace "man" with "woman," obviously.)
 
GirlFromTexlahoma said:
But I have fantasies of ... Someone. Someone who would invite me over for a takeout and movie night, or come up to the cabin to go hiking with me and the dogs, or take me out for a fancy dinner on my birthday.

It just isn't Renaissance in those fantasies.
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That's okay - you only just met him. You can fantasize about anyone you want, even if he does become a boyfriend. He doesn't have to be the only one allowed in your sex dreams just because you had one great date and a nice rapport in texts and emails.

GirlFromTexlahoma said:
I have a lot of guilt feelings around that, but I need to work through them. Get past this idea that I am I a bad person for wanting to keep my options open, this feeling that I'm supposed to commit to any decent guy who will have me.
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It would seem that this is the crux of what makes you uncomfortable and trips you up when it comes to enjoying yourself and going for what you want. Do you have a plan or idea of how you can "work it through" and get past that voice that keeps telling you you're bad?
 
nycindie said:
That's okay - you only just met him. You can fantasize about anyone you want, even if he does become a boyfriend. He doesn't have to be the only one allowed in your sex dreams just because you had one great date and a nice rapport in texts and emails.
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But what if I want to actually date those people? Or fuck them? What if I still want that after 3 great dates, or ten?

I realize that must seem like a bizarre thing to ask on a poly forum. But the truth is I have NO CLUE how to date casually in a poly context.

In the mono dating world, just saying, "I'm not looking for anything exclusive" or "I'm happy just dating multiple people casually for now" is effectively saying, "hey, don't take what we're doing too seriously! This is just for fun and could end at any moment!" But... How do you communicate that in poly situations, where dating multiple people doesn't preclude serious commitments???

Because really, what I want right now is to chat with dudes on okc, meet them for dates, flirt, sleep with as many or as few as I'd like, and not have to answer to anybody about it. (Except Andy, obviously, but he cares how much time *he* gets, not how I divide the time I don't spend with him. Three dates a week with the same guy or three dates in one week with three different guys, same to him.)

What I *don't* want is anybody feeling like they have a claim to X amount of my time, or a say in who else I date, or presumed ongoing sexual consent ( I don't want having had sex a couple of times to automatically mean we will have sex again). Basically, I want very casual dating, until and unless I meet someone who blows my mind and makes me want more. I don't just want to automatically escalate to the "more" just because it's been a few months of dating.

And I'm not sure how to communicate that in a world where dating multiple people still leaves room for expectations of "more than casual".

It would seem that this is the crux of what makes you uncomfortable and trips you up when it comes to enjoying yourself and going for what you want. Do you have a plan or idea of how you can "work it through" and get past that voice that keeps telling you you're bad?
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Still working on this one ;)

I don't want to hurt people. And I know I did, when Andy and I first opened up, and I dated with the expectation that nobody could expect anything of me because married. Dag was a true Game Changer in his way, it was the first time I saw that non monogamy could mean multiple "real" relationships. So I'm gun shy now, about getting hurt myself, but also about hurting others.
 
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