I've been having relationship issues after my gf came out poly to me

Maybe in some cases, the "trial period" is not to see if a monogamous partner will like a polyamorous arrangement, but rather, to see if a monogamous partner and a polyamorous partner will want to remain partners to each other. Does that make sense?
 
kdt26417 said:
Maybe in some cases, the "trial period" is not to see if a monogamous partner will like a polyamorous arrangement, but rather, to see if a monogamous partner and a polyamorous partner will want to remain partners to each other. Does that make sense?
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it makes sense on paper. The problem for us monos, is that it's a huge gamble. Such a trial works more in the favor of the poly partner- especially, if we're talking about a long term monogamous relationship having been the basis. The poly partner would likely have an easier time maintaining monogamous after having been used to it for 5-10 years or longer. Whereas, the mono partner would have to, essentially, be willing to plan for the relationship to end before the "trial" would even begin. I can say personally, that there's no way I could look at my wife the same way after her sleeping with someone else since we've been married. That's a bell that just can't be unrung in most cases.
 
Savant said:
I feel the same way.

I should clarify my remarks a bit. When I spoke about the 'threesome' thing, I wasn't suggesting that it *was* every guy's fantasy, but that it is *expected to be* every guy's fantasy. Another example would be if a guy gets drunk and a good-looking woman has sex with him, without his consent. How many guys would call that 'rape' and how many would say that he 'got lucky'? There is the societal stereotypical presumption that since guys like sex, they should automatically find such an event a positive thing.

Women prey on these stereotypes as well. I think it is not at all a coincidence for a woman (wife/partner) to approach her significant other and offer 'bisexual' as a means to 'soften him up'. Let's be honest here, it's infinitely less threatening for a man to hear his wife is interested in another woman, and not another man--even if she is interested in BOTH. It's unlikely she would ever admit that to him upfront, and instead just mention her desire for women. She knows that if she mentions a desire for other men to her partner that it would be a non-starter for almost every man.

No matter how you slice it, the real issue here is that when a monogamous couple get married, they are making a joint commitment to maintain a monogamous relationship. Just making a "I'm bisexual" declaration is not a defacto agreement that should require a male partner to try poly at some point. Either the couple marries as a monogamous couple, or they do not. Whether or not there are extra partners *at that time* is irrelevent. Either they made a monogamous commitment to one another, or they did not. If they did make a monogamous commitment to one another, that takes precedence over either partner's subsequent desire to 'go poly' later in the relationship.

However, it doesn't matter if it is a man or a woman that drops the poly 'bomb', the reality is that it is categorically unfair to their partner to do so. Why? Because the expectation is that if their partner "really loves them" that they will give it a 'try'. In reality they are asking their partner to 'buy'. As I noted above, once the poly door is open, you can't close it again. The double-standard comes slamming down, and it's a no-win scenario for the partner being asked to 'try'.

If the partner agrees to 'try' poly, and they don't like it, then they are supposedly 'being selfish' if they want to remain monogamous. Despite the fact that they BOTH agreed to a monogamous marriage, the fact that the dissenting partner wants to keep it that way is supposedly 'mean' and is "taking away their partner's freedom." If the dissenting partner is unfortunate enough to be a man, he automatically becomes a misogynist for wanting to keep the marriage the way it is. It was never 'try'. If it was 'try', the partner would respect if he is unable to go down that road. Instead, he is branded as trying to 'control her life', despite the fact that he never signed up for this when he got married.

Alternately, if the partner outright refuses to try poly, then they are decried as not respecting their partner's feelings and desires. Again we have the, "if you really loved me you would try" manipulation, which selfishly attempts to leverage and hold hostage their partner's love for the sake of a personal desire.

My position is that if the one who has poly desires "really loved their partner", then they would accept that they made a commitment to their partner, and that they can't always get what they want in life. Or, if their desire for poly is stronger than their love for their partner, they should end the relationship outright. If they knew their partner at all, they would know--without asking--whether they would be receptive to such an idea. If that is something that a person doesn't know about their partner, then perhaps they are in a superficial relationship. It should *not* be a surprise how a partner answers. They should have a very good idea how the partner will answer before they even ask.

'Asking' puts the partner in an emotional and mentally destructive dilemma, since there is no way out. No matter which way they go, they are the one made to look bad. Yet they weren't the one that brought up poly in the first place. They are being emotionally victimized by their partner.

I wonder what someone would say if their partner asked them to quit their job, leave their family, and move across the country because their significant other suddenly had a hankering to take a job there. That's a tall order and it is asking a LOT of a partner to make that kind of sacrifice and change to their life. It's no different to ask a partner to go poly. It's asking them to make a sacrifice and turning their life upside down. They should be able to say 'no' and not made to feel guilty about honoring the commitment they made when they got married.

In my opinion, asking a partner to 'try poly' is nothing more than an attempt to snare their partner in a Chinese finger trap.
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No need to clarify. I understood and generally agree with everything that you said. All too often, the mono partners are left to be treated as though they're "selfish" or "controlling" for simply wanting the outline of their marriage to remain as it was when they agreed to join together in the first place. And I call BS on such assertions.

I don't think that there's a caring human being on the planet that doesn't want their partner to be happy... At the same time, I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that our partners want the same for us. And yes, in some relationships, there are stalemates. Two people who are so incompatible in - arguably - one of the most important aspects of a relationship, will likely not survive anyway. But those that are generally happy the way things are, I think are playing with fire when trying to bring about an idea that has a very high potential to crash & burn.

I think what mazes me, is how so many have the audacity to assume that monogamy is just this "outdated, societal norm", that we've been essentially forced into going along with. News flash! Most of us actually like it. Not because we feel the need to fit in with the crowd, but because we feel that having a small, intimate circle, is more satisfactory than a large one where who knows what kind of drama can occur.

Some of us only have so much love to give. Heck, I'd say that it's fair to assess that most of us have differing opinions on what love actually is. My take, is that if you're willing to die for someone, you love them. There are less than 15 people on this planet that I can honestly say that I love. Others might not share that view, and that's fine, but that's my basis.

it goes without saying that some people change over the course of a long relationship/marriage. And it is important to recognize that. However, it's equally important to realize that many people do not change. Why is it perceived that more of the benefit should go to the ones who do change?
 
CTF said:
I don't think that there's a caring human being on the planet that doesn't want their partner to be happy... At the same time, I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that our partners want the same for us. And yes, in some relationships, there are stalemates.
...
it goes without saying that some people change over the course of a long relationship/marriage. And it is important to recognize that. However, it's equally important to realize that many people do not change. Why is it perceived that more of the benefit should go to the ones who do change?
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Which is a good question. It does seem the onus is always on the mono partner to 'change'.

In a situation where you have two people, one mono, and one (wanting) poly, it's clear that one of them won't get what they want. Of course we hear that if the mono partner loved their poly partner, they would 'try'. (Which as I've already established is defacto acceptance.)

Well why is it not that if the poly partner loved the mono partner that the poly partner would 'try' to live without poly, instead of the mono person living with poly? Is it not an equal sacrifice for *either* partner? Who determines that one sacrifice is 'more deserving' than the other? Is it, as you remarked, that only the person who wants 'change' is more deserving?

If I take the opposite side, about the only thing that even comes close to a justification for this would be something like, "you'll never know you like something unless you try." Now this is fair, but the problem is that it's an all-or-nothing gambit. It's extremely high risk, and the couple could very well be betting the future of their relationship on whether their gamble pays off. Meanwhile, keeping what they have now is a 'sure thing'.

I guess the question for the poly person in this example should be, "Am I willing to risk my relationship to satisfy my own personal desires?"
 
For some poly people they *have* been trying to be mono. Some for years and years. It is a different case for them, I imagine, than for someone who suddenly discovers they are in love with more than one person.

I do not know, not having read places like reddit etc but I would suspect the whole "poly is more evolved" comes from young people (or just immature people?) who have not much experience at relationships and/or feel a lot of societal push back and are trying to defend their lovestyle.

Leetah
 
To be honest, I don't know whether to argue one way or the other. It seems like I can see both sides.
 
Leetah said:
I do not know, not having read places like reddit etc but I would suspect the whole "poly is more evolved" comes from young people (or just immature people?) who have not much experience at relationships and/or feel a lot of societal push back and are trying to defend their lovestyle.
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In Chops' case, it came about after he realized that Poly was an option, and he started ID'ing as Poly and had multiple relationships (and he was in his 40s, newly divorced from his second marriage). There was this sense of discovery and maybe an NRE with Polyamory itself, and I think when he was feeling this, it was very easy for him to come across as "This is so much better! If everyone could do this, what a GREAT world this would be! If only you could see the light!" I call it his "polyvangelistic" phase, and it really does seem to be a "born-again" type of phenomenon - look how AWESOME this thing is! Look how happy I am! You can be this happy!

(Not to religion-bash - it happens with lots of things: new vegetarians, new parents, newly-quit smokers... once you feel GREAT, you want to let everyone know!)

Which drove me bananas to no end, and it finally let to an argument where I told him that if I were going to respect him for who he was, then he'd damn well better do the same for me.

Now, it's been a few years, and when folks give him the "Heeeeeey, two ladies! <wink wink>" thing, he tends to respond with, "It's not the dream you think!" ;)

Everyone's mileage may vary, of course, but that was my personal experience with the whole "poly is more enlightened" thing.
 
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Savant said:
Which is a good question. It does seem the onus is always on the mono partner to 'change'.

In a situation where you have two people, one mono, and one (wanting) poly, it's clear that one of them won't get what they want. Of course we hear that if the mono partner loved their poly partner, they would 'try'. (Which as I've already established is defacto acceptance.)

Well why is it not that if the poly partner loved the mono partner that the poly partner would 'try' to live without poly, instead of the mono person living with poly? Is it not an equal sacrifice for *either* partner? Who determines that one sacrifice is 'more deserving' than the other? Is it, as you remarked, that only the person who wants 'change' is more deserving?

If I take the opposite side, about the only thing that even comes close to a justification for this would be something like, "you'll never know you like something unless you try." Now this is fair, but the problem is that it's an all-or-nothing gambit. It's extremely high risk, and the couple could very well be betting the future of their relationship on whether their gamble pays off. Meanwhile, keeping what they have now is a 'sure thing'.

I guess the question for the poly person in this example should be, "Am I willing to risk my relationship to satisfy my own personal desires?"
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The way I see it, "try it, you might like it" only works when it comes to relatively inconsequential matters. I've tried sushi, I didn't like it. I don't have to eat it again, but no one (except the fish I guess) was harmed in the process. The problem is, that "trying" poly on the chance one might like it, is a life altering change. And as you out it, it's a huge risk. It's like getting a tattoo. It has a permanent effect. Sure, you can attempt to get it removed, but it's an extremely painful process that has no real guarantee that it will fully work to restore things to the way they were.

And yes, that's an excellent question for the poly partner. Especially since they're the one with the power to decide if they even want to go down that road. I think that the unfair aspect to the mono partner, is that they're being pressured to accept a new dynamic of their relationship that they never asked for in the first place.
 
Leetah said:
For some poly people they *have* been trying to be mono. Some for years and years. It is a different case for them, I imagine, than for someone who suddenly discovers they are in love with more than one person.


Leetah
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Which is completely understandable. It seems to be a common theme among poly folk who come out to their mono partners. The problem from the other side, is that for all that time they're "trying mono", they usually never utter a word that they are. The plug along as though they're just fine in the mono relationship. And while, from there side, it could be a 5 or 10 year journey of discovery, their partners feel like their blind-sided with this information.

I can tell you from personal experience, that after nearly 17 years of marriage, not once was there even a hint that my wife had these inclinations. All this time, you feel that things are going well, and that both are on the same page in virtually every aspect. We agree on practically everything. And now, from out of left field, this news hits that she might rather "try" to engage in activities that were only something I thought could happen in my worst nightmare... But I'm (according to her friends) just shut up & accept the change?
 
kdt26417 said:
To be honest, I don't know whether to argue one way or the other. It seems like I can see both sides.
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Which is completely fair. Honestly (and this was my purpose coming on this site from the beginning), it's all about learning another perspective and trying to see where each other is coming from. At the end of the day, whether we're poly or mono, gay or straight, black or white, we're human beings. And as such, we're complicated creatures with a wide range of emotions and backgrounds. It's important that we try & learn why we have the feelings that we do, rather than waste our time trying to sway opinions.
 
CTF said:
Which is completely understandable. It seems to be a common theme among poly folk who come out to their mono partners. The problem from the other side, is that for all that time they're "trying mono", they usually never utter a word that they are. The plug along as though they're just fine in the mono relationship. And while, from there side, it could be a 5 or 10 year journey of discovery, their partners feel like their blind-sided with this information.

I can tell you from personal experience, that after nearly 17 years of marriage, not once was there even a hint that my wife had these inclinations. All this time, you feel that things are going well, and that both are on the same page in virtually every aspect. We agree on practically everything. And now, from out of left field, this news hits that she might rather "try" to engage in activities that were only something I thought could happen in my worst nightmare... But I'm (according to her friends) just shut up & accept the change?
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CTF, I don't doubt that you were blindsided. I've read most of your posts. But, I'll be honest that while there may not have been indicators that your wife was poly, there were indicators that your wife wasn't as happy as you thought, regardless of whether you acknowledge them.

I'd also add that I really don't think most poly people realize that they're 'trying' mono. In our culture, mono is the accepted norm so much so that we buy into it...and then think there's something wrong with us when it doesn't work. But the truth is, lifelong monogamy doesn't work for the majority of people, even monogamists. This is why most monogamists are serial monogamists. The idea that poly people are doing this (whatever the nebulous 'this' is) to their monogamous partners is erroneous. Where the poly partner gets messed up, I think, is in assuming because poly makes sense/works for them, that it will for the mono partner. Where the mono partner gets messed up, I think, is in assuming because the poly person lived monogamously for x years, that he/she can continue to do so but is choosing instead to do this hurtful thing to the mono partner. This is why divorce is mentioned so frequently. People grow and change, and discover new things about themselves. We do not stay stagnate. Sometimes our partners and relationships grow in ways which can accommodate our changes, sometimes not. It doesn't mean there isn't love and it doesn't mean that it's a failure. It just is. From personal experience, I can say that hanging onto a relationship form that's no longer viable just kills the love between the people.
 
PinkPig said:
CTF, I don't doubt that you were blindsided. I've read most of your posts. But, I'll be honest that while there may not have been indicators that your wife was poly, there were indicators that your wife wasn't as happy as you thought, regardless of whether you acknowledge them.

I'd also add that I really don't think most poly people realize that they're 'trying' mono. In our culture, mono is the accepted norm so much so that we buy into it...and then think there's something wrong with us when it doesn't work. But the truth is, lifelong monogamy doesn't work for the majority of people, even monogamists. This is why most monogamists are serial monogamists. The idea that poly people are doing this (whatever the nebulous 'this' is) to their monogamous partners is erroneous. Where the poly partner gets messed up, I think, is in assuming because poly makes sense/works for them, that it will for the mono partner. Where the mono partner gets messed up, I think, is in assuming because the poly person lived monogamously for x years, that he/she can continue to do so but is choosing instead to do this hurtful thing to the mono partner. This is why divorce is mentioned so frequently. People grow and change, and discover new things about themselves. We do not stay stagnate. Sometimes our partners and relationships grow in ways which can accommodate our changes, sometimes not. It doesn't mean there isn't love and it doesn't mean that it's a failure. It just is. From personal experience, I can say that hanging onto a relationship form that's no longer viable just kills the love between the people.
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Of course there were indicators that she wasn't happy. As I'm sure that she saw signs that I've been unhappy at times as well. Now, I'm gad that you've read most of my posts, but it seems that you haven't taken note of the repeated times I've stated that I've always been open to criticism, and I've always been the type that tries to work on whatever the problem may be. If there's anything that I'm doing to cause unhappiness, I want to know. If I can fix it, I will. If I'm not told these things, then I have no knowledge that there's anything that needs to be worked on.

Now... To the point, I can confidently say that there was NEVER an indication that she was unhappy with our relationship model, or with our marriage itself. The unhappiness she's shown, was work related, or due to the devastating circumstance regarding her mother's stroke & subsequent 5 year coma before passing away in 2012, and a host other things that were generally temporary personal setbacks (financial, etc...)

Not only was I blind-sided with the poly, but I was blind-sided to even the concept that any unhappiness was related to our marriage.

Of course people grow and change. And yes, that's a primary reason that divorce is so common. But people also have the ability to prioritize between two incompatible options. In my case, she chose to remain monogamous because our marriage was more important to her, than exploring something that she wasn't sure would even work in the first place. And yes, I was called selfish & controlling by some, for not being willing to remain with her, if she were to choose to explore poly. But in reality, there has never been anything to stop her from doing so. I think the problem that some poly people have with this, is that they feel that I have the duty to stay around & watch my heart get broken while she sleeps with other people. How is that fair to me?

And yes, monogamy is more prevalent in our culture than any of the alternatives, but I completely reject the premise that we as a society are just "buying into" a "social norm". Believe it or not, most of us actually like monogamy and prefer it regardless of what the social norm is. Poly could be the social norm, and I'd still prefer mono. As for serial monogamy... How does that signify that monogamy doesn't work for those people? All that suggests to me, is that some folks just seek companionship, but they still haven't found that person that fulfills what they feel they need.

Let me be clear, I'm not casting judgment on poly itself. Adults can choose whatever model they believe works best for them. And even in cases where a poly partner comes out to their spouse, and has to end their relationship because the mono partner can't exist within it because the poly partner "needs" to have more than one, I don't fault them. What I do have a problem with, is treating the mono partner as selfish for not being able to accept and live with such a drastic change in dynamic.
 
I certainly agree that it is okay for "the mono spouse" to divorce "the poly spouse" if polyamory is something the monogamous spouse can't (and doesn't want to) live with.
 
Chicken or egg.

Noticing a spouse is unhappy and then the light bulb moment that they're poly doesn't necessarily mean they are poly. From my own situation it wasn't true. Reading and keeping track of other fellow members it's not 100% true either. I'm not sure what the actual % numbers would be but I'm betting it's higher than people would think in these "poly bomb " scenarios.

I think it might be more accurate to say some people with issues ( mental or otherwise ) Might seek poly or multi relationships as the fix not really knowing what or why the cause. Can't be just me who's noticed the high number of people who suffer from depression or anxiety. My wife did. So did being poly rid her of depression/anxiety. NO. Was she happier ? ....maybe short term ( NRE ) fueled ...didn't seem or feel happier from my side. Do I think she used it as a way of self medicating ? YES. The grand question. Is she poly now? ....NO ....or I don't think so. ( Disclaimer ) A while back she made statement renouncing poly however she's been know to change her mind any given day. From what I hear I don't think she is even dating solo/ mono so at the very least she not practicing right now.

I think people might be surprised at the number of people ( members ) who have had a spouse make this poly declaration and had it destroy their marriage and then that partner ended up being mono with someone else. ( scratch head )



I was blindsided ....I was a team player for a time ...it ended ..... And in the end she wanted her old life back.....so I guess she's still unhappy and she's not as poly as she thought. How many of those people are walking around ???

And I'm not counting the ones that use poly as cover for cheating....admittedly the line here could get blurred.
 
dingedheart said:
I think people might be surprised at the number of people ( members ) who have had a spouse make this poly declaration and had it destroy their marriage and then that partner ended up being mono with someone else.
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I get the feeling that this happens a lot among the people we see drift through here. Just judging from their stories, but an awful lot of people seem to be latching onto "poly" because it's an option now and it makes for some sort of transition between letting go of a long time love and moving onto a new one. Having both at once has become (a bit) more socially possible and it's an emotional soft ball compared to giving one the immediate heave ho. It's good old fashioned serial monogamy with a probabtionary period tossed in the middle.
 
I think some of these posts are based on the premise that someone IS poly or mono. That it's concrete and unchangeable, almost described in a way similar to one's sexual orientation.

I disagree with that concept. For me, at least, being poly is a life choice that I'm making. Right now, it makes sense in my life. In the future, it may not. It doesn't make me any "less" poly. I just think it's a lot more fluid than that.

I have heard of people who identify strongly with BEING poly or mono. That works for them, and I don't want to undermine their experience. But for me, it's much more about what works now. So I chose to be mono most of my life (regardless of whether or not I was aware of poly as an option - I still chose it). I've been choosing to be poly for the last 5 years, and I suspect someday in the future, if either of my relationships end, I'll choose to be mono again. And then maybe poly. And then mono. The possibilities are endless! ;) I simply use "poly" to describe myself as having more than one partner. But it's not the only way I have relationships.
 
Yes there are many of us working off that premise because that's exactly how it was describe to us. I'm not sure if you could do a tag search on poly identity however if you could I would bet there would hundreds if not thousands of posts and or threads stating just this. Someone describing there marriage yrs as being trapped, being a freak for having desires, not being " truly " happy gives weight to the basis of that premise.

It's ironic that 3 different poly members have such a varied opinion.

Pinkpig supports the theory of the long buried/ hidden poly identity ...taking yrs to bubble to the surface or be honestly dealt with. And by making such a declaration in a long married Union you aren't really doing a hurtful thing to your spouse or partner.

Fallenangelina sees that poly has been used as a soft transition ....test run before moving on.

Reflections doesn't agree with all those who identify as poly and thinks it's a moment to moment yr to yr thing. Very fluid , fight club rules ...or until I change my mind again.

What's interesting in all 3 is honesty and its role.

However moving back to my thought in response to the " unhappy / unfulfilled " finding poly and that being the fix isn't born out by the threads and blogs.
It doesn't take too much reading on the blog page to see some of these folks have some real issues with depression/mental, self esteem, dependencies/ addictions,.....and using relationships and dating and sex as escapism.

CTF How would your wife react if you said honey I really need sex minimum of twice a day ...(maybe more depending ) and you're maxed out a twice a week ...because of that we need to open our marriage. I'm not truly happy ....haven't been for yrs and this is my solution. Get over yourself I'm not doing anything hurtful to you. I'm just finally asserting my natural inclination.
 
I'll clarify my point of view. I don't want to put words into the mouths of people who believe they ARE poly or mono. I don't know their experience. I just don't think that's the ONLY way people are poly (or mono).

I guess I think of it more along a continuum of:

preference for mono--------------------------preference for poly

Some people who "discover" they are poly are on the preference for poly end. And some people who are only interested in monogamy are on the other end. I fall somewhere in between (currently). My "polyness" depends on the people involved in my life.

People's positions on the continuum may change over time/through life experiences/based on relationships in their life. CTF believes it will never change for him - so he's firmly on the mono end. For myself, I was much closer to the mono end for much of my life, but have shifted around some (swung to the poly end, then back to the middle). So even though I'm in the middle-ish area now, I suspect life experiences and my relationships will shape how many partners I choose in the future.

I guess I see this fluidity a bit like the fluidity part of my sexual orientation (not the concrete part). I'm pansexual, but my attraction to different genders varies over time. There are times when I'm hugely attracted to butch women, then femmes, then more traditionally presenting men, then androgynous individuals. The fact that I'm pansexual doesn't change. But there's movement within.

Does that fit for anyone else?
 
It's ironic that 3 different poly members have such a varied opinion.
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It's not all that ironic when you consider poly people are just people. All people have an opinion on things. We are not a hive.
 
reflections said:
I guess I think of it more along a continuum of:

preference for mono--------------------------preference for poly

Some people who "discover" they are poly are on the preference for poly end. And some people who are only interested in monogamy are on the other end.
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Yes I do think there is a scale in inclination for mono or poly. Now I feel like I am perhaps 70% mono, for I do have a strong need for one primary partner, but still I do not want to exclude possibilities for intimate interactions with others and I am quite able to feel compersion. For my partner, though he managed to have more or less monogamous relationships, he has a very clear preference for poly all through his life. So yes, I do believe there are people who won't put up with poly (and that in no way means they are insecure or just need to get rid of monogamous conditioning), and there are people who won't be happy with monogamy (and it in no way means they fear being commited or anything like this).

As for the disputed case when one spouse comes out poly or falls in love after years of marriage, I think all mentiond situations and motivations are possible.
- there may be a lifelong poly inclination which he didn't realise. For some people polyamory is really the missing piece, but
- it may just as well be that the spouse is unhappy for any other reason, and thinks he needs sexual variety or love or whatever to "fix" his depression, but doesn't want to give up the current partner (which, by the way, may even really be helpful, for a new relationship may be the best way to help him grow).
-of course it is possible that people in the original relationships grew appart, and consequently the spouse is looking for a transition (good old serial monogamy)
As for my own experience, falling in love with someone else while in a relationship and consequently feeling like poly is the right think didn't really mean I was poly. Just that I was missing something I couldn't define at that time. However I am sure for some people it is a real awakening to find out that they are happier with multiple lovers, and then the couple has to decide who makes the sacrifice, or if they part ways.
 
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