I've been having relationship issues after my gf came out poly to me

[FallenAngelina]

It's not all that ironic when you consider poly people are just people. All people have an opinion on things. We are not a hive.

And what I said is just commentary on something I've noticed here about people in transition, not my opinion on whether "polyamorous" is innate or chosen. Sometimes it seems as though people are just about as "poly" as their options.

 

[CTF]

CTF How would your wife react if you said honey I really need sex minimum of twice a day ...(maybe more depending ) and you're maxed out a twice a week ...because of that we need to open our marriage. I'm not truly happy ....haven't been for yrs and this is my solution. Get over yourself I'm not doing anything hurtful to you. I'm just finally asserting my natural inclination.

It's interesting that you ask that. During some of my late night pondering sessions, I've asked myself a very similar question (specific numbers excluded). I've come up with a few lines of thinking, and in no specific order, I'd like to point out.

A:One of the fears that us mono folk face, is the concern that their being poly, means that we're "not enough" for our partners. And as much as the poly partner insists that that's not the case, your example more or less proves that we really aren't enough in their eyes. If my wife "needs" sex twice a day, and I cannot accommodate, then I'm clearly not enough for her in an area that's that important to her. What bothers me, is that the poly side is too quick to try & preserve our feelings by telling us what they think we want to hear. The fact is, that relationships can never prosper if there isn't complete honesty. If my sexual shortcomings in her opinion, require the assistance of several other people, then just be honest & tell me I'm not doing the job. Don't try and placate my ego.

B:I would simply ask her... "Would being able to keep up at twice a day prevent you from feeling like you needed to seek other partners?" Because if so, then it casts doubt on whether or not she's really poly in the first place. If not, then it really has nothing to do with my performance, it's all about seeking someone that isn't me. So the amount of sex she would need would be irrelevant.

C:Since when is everyone entitled to everything they want? Suppose I "need" a gourmet dinner on the table every night, and if I'm not coming home to Filet Mignon & Lobster every night, then I'll go find another woman who will cook these things for me on the nights you're not able to or willing to do it? I think the key here, is differentiating a need vs a want. And while there's nothing wrong with satisfying wants, it's in everyone's best interest to keep them realistic. If her needs/wants were sex 4 times/week, and I hadn't been in the mood in over a month, then we have a real discussion on our hands. Do I step up & give that to her, or do I refuse & leave her unfulfilled?

I think that often, people fail to recognize that our partners are very willing to change their behaviors & seek to satisfy if they knew that the other wasn't quite happy. Relationships are about compromise & sacrifice. The successful ones know that it's not about fulfilling yourself, but rather, fulfilling your partner. That doesn't mean that we become a door mat & suffer in silent misery. If they don't make you happy, or mistreat you, then leave. I keep a very small, yet rigid set of standards. I want my wife to be happy. I live to make her happy. I will do everything in my power to satisfy every desire she could ever have, as long as it strictly remains between her & I. If she's satisfied with having 99% of all that she seeks, then we both win. If that remaining 1% is not enough, then she is free to seek it elsewhere, but it comes at the consequence at losing the other 99%.

Another thing to consider. For any of you that have kids... Think about how they would feel if you adopted another, just because you felt like you needed more help around the house than they could handle for your standards. "Bobby. Since you couldn't take the trash out everyday like I asked, here's your new adopted brother. We're short on space, so now you're going to have to sacrifice everything & share your room with him. Oh, and he'll need to wear your clothes, use your shampoo. And since money's tighter, we'll have to cut back on everything. Meals will be smaller, toothpaste will have to last longer, and so on. And, of course, you'll be getting less attention. But don't worry. You're still our son, and you mean just as much to us, even though your failures at the housework have forced us into this predicament."

Sounds insane right? Welcome to the mind of a mono partner being told to accept his/her spouse's desire for another sex partner.

 

[CTF]

I'll clarify my point of view. I don't want to put words into the mouths of people who believe they ARE poly or mono. I don't know their experience. I just don't think that's the ONLY way people are poly (or mono).

I guess I think of it more along a continuum of:

preference for mono--------------------------preference for poly

Some people who "discover" they are poly are on the preference for poly end. And some people who are only interested in monogamy are on the other end. I fall somewhere in between (currently). My "polyness" depends on the people involved in my life.

People's positions on the continuum may change over time/through life experiences/based on relationships in their life. CTF believes it will never change for him - so he's firmly on the mono end. For myself, I was much closer to the mono end for much of my life, but have shifted around some (swung to the poly end, then back to the middle). So even though I'm in the middle-ish area now, I suspect life experiences and my relationships will shape how many partners I choose in the future.

I guess I see this fluidity a bit like the fluidity part of my sexual orientation (not the concrete part). I'm pansexual, but my attraction to different genders varies over time. There are times when I'm hugely attracted to butch women, then femmes, then more traditionally presenting men, then androgynous individuals. The fact that I'm pansexual doesn't change. But there's movement within.

Does that fit for anyone else?

I see what you're getting at. And truthfully, it makes sense. The problem is, that it's never presented in such a way to us mono folk when our partners "discover" that they're poly. My wife believes that hers is something she was born with. She insisted that it's "who" she is, and is not a reflection of what she may have done, or would like to do. I don't know, maybe it's easier to justify if it's presented as a genetic trait, rather than a chosen path when it involves dealing with someone that will be emotionally devastated by it. "I'm sorry I hurt you, but I can't control it", sounds much softer than "I'm sorry I chose to do something that hurt you", and it lessens some of the accountability to a degree.

Where it becomes confusing, is when it's time to negotiate boundaries. It's tough for people like us to understand where the perceived needs actually are anymore. "So you 'need' another partner? Alright, we can work on having one extra, but not two. It can be a woman, but not a man (or vice versa). Individual partners are okay, but no threesomes." And on and on. Whenever you change the dynamic once, the mono partner is ALWAYS on guard for it to change again. What happens when the one additional person isn't enough - now it needs to be two, or three, or four? What happens when a specific gender isn't enough? What happens when someone now feels the need for a threesome, or more? It becomes too much to process for someone who already feels like their world was completely turned on its head by the initial claim to need just one more person. Yes, I know, you communicate about it again. But we're always going to feel like that new dynamic shift is right around the corner.

 

[KC43]

Your example doesn't quite work, though, because a lot of people have more than one kid, whether biological, adopted, or a combination. Money might remain the same, and the size of the house might, but kids deal with it and the parents learn to accommodate the addition. And last time I checked, parents don't usually consult with their kids before adding another one, regardless of why they're adding more kids. But if you're going to throw in an example of kids, if love is limited and there's less to go around in a poly situation, how do parents manage to love all of their kids? Or do you believe that doesn't happen either?

You've made it very clear in all your posts on here that you believe love is a limited thing, and if it goes to one, it can't go to another. You've also made it clear that you believe the only reason someone would do poly is because of some failing of their monogamous partner, completely ignoring the fact that for some of us, polyamory is as hard-wired as sexual orientation. And yes, for some it actually is inborn, not just a thing we do, while for others it is a matter of acting only. But saying polyamory is never an inborn thing is like saying being gay or straight is never how someone is born, it's just who they choose to fuck.

That doesn't mean a monogamous person has to accept a polyamorous partner. They can always leave the relationship. But it's no more fair to beat someone over the head with "you love me less and I'm not enough for you and I don't believe you no matter what else you say" than it is for them to beat you over the head with "I love more than one and everyone's enough and love is infinite and I'm doing this."

You also don't speak for all monogamous people. My husband is monogamous and is very happy with our situation; it was his idea to begin with. Several others on here have monogamous partners who have no issue with polyamory whatsoever. Because those monogamous people keep open minds, accept their partner as they are, and understand that love is NOT something that you run out of if you're giving it to more than one person. You can't say "it's never presented to us mono folk" unless you've spoken with every single monogamous partner of a polyamorous person in the entire world. Have you? Because in my case, I presented it to Hubby as "You told me to have a friend with benefits, and now I've fallen in love with him, so I'm going to stop seeing him and not have any further contact...and HUBBY said, "No, keep seeing him, I'm glad you love him and I don't have a problem with it."

I don't know about anyone else, but when I read your posts I have to wonder whether you're here to try to learn more about polyamory and understand it, or just to spew at us about how wrong we are and how it must mean we don't love an existing partner if we take on another.

 

[Savant]

It's interesting that you ask that. During some of my late night pondering sessions, I've asked myself a very similar question (specific numbers excluded). I've come up with a few lines of thinking, and in no specific order, I'd like to point out.

I just want to say that this (quoted message) was a great post. Well thought out, apt analogies, and a balanced point of view. Makes me wish there was a 'thumbs up' button.

While I'm tempted to respond to your full post, I would likely only be reiterating much the same points that you made.

In the end, what you highlight is the pervasive undercurrent that faces a mono partner who is faced with this kind of 'challenge' to their relationship. Frankly, I'd suggest that it would be easier for a mono person to deal with a partner who had 'cheated' than it would be to deal with a partner that wants to go poly. (Note, I am not suggesting that cheating and poly are in any way, shape or form equivalent to one another.) At least with a partner that 'cheats' the mono partner can face that and put it behind them. With poly it's something that never goes away.

I do want to quote one section...

One of the fears that us mono folk face, is the concern that their being poly, means that we're "not enough" for our partners. And as much as the poly partner insists that that's not the case, your example more or less proves that we really aren't enough in their eyes.

I think it's inherent that a mono partner isn't 'enough' for a poly partner. The poly partner has a drive to have multiple relationships, and a relationship with one person is 'not enough' for them. There is no way to spin this otherwise.

This is why things are hard for the mono partner from the very start, since they have to deal with the idea that they aren't 'enough' for their partner anymore, *and* they have to deal with the idea that their partner only wants a 'part time' relationship with them now. So not only do they have to deal with the relationship issue, they have to deal with issues of their own self-worth. (Which usually involves a mono person blaming themselves for their partner feeling that they are no longer 'enough' anymore.) It's a psychological double-whammy, and it can do a lot of damage.

 

[CTF]

Your example doesn't quite work, though, because a lot of people have more than one kid, whether biological, adopted, or a combination. Money might remain the same, and the size of the house might, but kids deal with it and the parents learn to accommodate the addition. And last time I checked, parents don't usually consult with their kids before adding another one, regardless of why they're adding more kids. But if you're going to throw in an example of kids, if love is limited and there's less to go around in a poly situation, how do parents manage to love all of their kids? Or do you believe that doesn't happen either?

You've made it very clear in all your posts on here that you believe love is a limited thing, and if it goes to one, it can't go to another. You've also made it clear that you believe the only reason someone would do poly is because of some failing of their monogamous partner, completely ignoring the fact that for some of us, polyamory is as hard-wired as sexual orientation. And yes, for some it actually is inborn, not just a thing we do, while for others it is a matter of acting only. But saying polyamory is never an inborn thing is like saying being gay or straight is never how someone is born, it's just who they choose to fuck.

That doesn't mean a monogamous person has to accept a polyamorous partner. They can always leave the relationship. But it's no more fair to beat someone over the head with "you love me less and I'm not enough for you and I don't believe you no matter what else you say" than it is for them to beat you over the head with "I love more than one and everyone's enough and love is infinite and I'm doing this."

You also don't speak for all monogamous people. My husband is monogamous and is very happy with our situation; it was his idea to begin with. Several others on here have monogamous partners who have no issue with polyamory whatsoever. Because those monogamous people keep open minds, accept their partner as they are, and understand that love is NOT something that you run out of if you're giving it to more than one person. You can't say "it's never presented to us mono folk" unless you've spoken with every single monogamous partner of a polyamorous person in the entire world. Have you? Because in my case, I presented it to Hubby as "You told me to have a friend with benefits, and now I've fallen in love with him, so I'm going to stop seeing him and not have any further contact...and HUBBY said, "No, keep seeing him, I'm glad you love him and I don't have a problem with it."

I don't know about anyone else, but when I read your posts I have to wonder whether you're here to try to learn more about polyamory and understand it, or just to spew at us about how wrong we are and how it must mean we don't love an existing partner if we take on another.

Of course my example works. Look, as much as people don't want to admit it, having more than one kid takes less away from the others. Not just financially, but even when it comes down to love. It's NOT infinite, and it's much more than just an emotion. Love is just as much what the recipient gets from it, as it is from the giver.It's true, that parents don't generally consult with the kids when deciding to have more. However, if they don't consult with each other as to how it will affect the kids already present, then they do so at their own selfishness. Just assuming that everyone should, and will "deal with it" is absurd and shows no consideration for others.

And you're right about one thing. I do believe that love is limited, and quantifiable. It shows to be the case when someone's actions run contrary to their words. And yes, I'm a bit bitter. I guess watching someone spend all of their time online with someone on the opposite side of the country, rather than help you cope with the loss of your father will do that.

However, I've never claimed that the "only reason" one is poly, is due to a "failing" of their monogamous partner. I don't know where you got that from, but that's not what I said. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it's not. Furthermore, I never said that it wasn't inborn. For some it is, and for others it's not. I didn't ignore anything. That being said... There is a HUGE difference between who someone is, and what they do. Being poly, is not mutually exclusive to living a poly lifestyle.

And you're right, one doesn't have to accept a poly relationship. Nor does one have to accept a mono relationship. There are often stalemates where choices have to be made as to whether or not the relationship as it's been, is worth keeping or not. No one is beating anyone over the head. If I felt that my wife was doing that, then I'd have left a long time ago. Inversely, I would expect the same from her. It's not about "not believing" the other. It goes much deeper. It's about being able to identify with it, and thus, accepting it into the home. I've stated that under no uncertain terms, our marriage will forever be closed. She stated that she's okay with that. Yet, she could change her mind at any time. If she wants to leave, she can. There's no roadblock whatsoever.

I also never claimed to speak for "all" monogamous people. I'm actually stunned that you could even make such a claim to assume that I was. It's great for you that your husband was so agreeable to it. Even to the point that it was his idea. But let's face the facts, instances like your are much more rare. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but I'd bet that looking on this site alone, you'd see a pattern. And with all due respect, you're putting words in my mouth once again. I never said that I had an issue with polyamory. I have no problem with those who practice it. It's not my concern when it doesn't affect me. But when it DOES affect me, I have every right to voice my complaints.

I don't need to speak with every monogamous person with a poly partner. You're arguing semantics and it's completely unnecessary. But my experience of feeling less loved is just as valid as any other, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this.

I'm sorry that that's what you read into my posts. Despite the fact that I've never once said that poly was wrong, it does tend to remain a touchy subject for me. I find it incredible irritating that monogamy is summed up by so many as some sort of "societal norm" that we as human beings bought into. I'm not saying that that's your take, but this site is flooded by that phrase from many who do say it. Which completely ignores the notion that we can, and do think for ourselves. It's no less insulting to me, as it is for you to be told that yours is a "choice".

 

[CTF]

I just want to say that this (quoted message) was a great post. Well thought out, apt analogies, and a balanced point of view. Makes me wish there was a 'thumbs up' button.

While I'm tempted to respond to your full post, I would likely only be reiterating much the same points that you made.

In the end, what you highlight is the pervasive undercurrent that faces a mono partner who is faced with this kind of 'challenge' to their relationship. Frankly, I'd suggest that it would be easier for a mono person to deal with a partner who had 'cheated' than it would be to deal with a partner that wants to go poly. (Note, I am not suggesting that cheating and poly are in any way, shape or form equivalent to one another.) At least with a partner that 'cheats' the mono partner can face that and put it behind them. With poly it's something that never goes away.

I do want to quote one section...
I think it's inherent that a mono partner isn't 'enough' for a poly partner. The poly partner has a drive to have multiple relationships, and a relationship with one person is 'not enough' for them. There is no way to spin this otherwise.

This is why things are hard for the mono partner from the very start, since they have to deal with the idea that they aren't 'enough' for their partner anymore, *and* they have to deal with the idea that their partner only wants a 'part time' relationship with them now. So not only do they have to deal with the relationship issue, they have to deal with issues of their own self-worth. (Which usually involves a mono person blaming themselves for their partner feeling that they are no longer 'enough' anymore.) It's a psychological double-whammy, and it can do a lot of damage.

Thank you. I know I'm on a tear with this subject lately, I just find it incredibly frustrating that so many simply refuse to acknowledge why someone like myself, feels the way I do. I come onto this site to try & understand the poly side. So far, I have had any luck as it relates to my situation. But I also find it important for the poly side to understand exactly what so many monos go through. Hearing your partner has feelings for someone else after showing no sign of that tendency throughout a 20 year relationship (nearly 17 years of them marriage) is a stunning, and startling revelation. And sure, some are alright with such a change, but certainly not all. And all we get told by the poly side, is to examine ourselves & figure out why we feel the way we do. But once that's done, there never seems to be an acceptance as to what our answers happen to be. The thought of my wife with another person makes me sick. I don't feel that after this many years of faithful devotion, supporting virtually EVERY decision she's ever made, that I should be treated as "selfish" for not being willing to share our marital bed.

I've been told (by others) that my jealousy would probably disappear if I also found another partner. Which is insulting as it insinuates that I'm shallow for only looking to fulfill MY needs. I've also been told that I might change my mind once I see her make out with another woman. Also insulting, for the very same reason.

And I agree with you. In a way, cheating might have been easier to deal with. However, she hadn't actually slept with anyone else by the time she told me this, and it took a half a second to tell her that I'd never be alright with that. She's agreed to keep it monogamous & closed, so in the end, there was a HUGE bullet dodged. Had she slept with anyone, our marriage would have ended the second she told me. There's no wiggle room there whatsoever. But at least, I would have eventually been able to move on & gained some peace even if we'd have no longer been together.

Psychological double-whammy is a bit of an understatement. It's very tough to feel like you're not good enough. It's interesting, I've always had a great deal of pride to know that she chose me to marry. Words could not express how fortunate I've always felt to have her. I felt like she was too good for me. Usually, when little comments like that would be made, she knew just what to say to make me feel fantastic. But once someone else enters the picture, and takes up all of their time, and you're feeling like a 3rd wheel within your own marriage, you start to wonder what you did to deserve this extreme loss of attention & affection. My dad dies, and she was emotionally MIA. On my birthday, she spent the entire day texting him. How was I supposed to feel? "Gee, this is great that I have to force conversation with you on our date night. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll get a kiss goodnight in between watching movies with him. Of course I feel just as loved. Shouldn't it be obvious?"

 

[kdt26417]

Re:

"But I also find it important for the poly side to understand exactly what so many monos go through."

CTF, I am hopeful that I'm gaining a better understanding by reading your posts. I don't quite know what to say yet, I am still absorbing the information.

 

[PinkPig]

Ctf, don't confuse what happened with your wife with ethical poly. I don't think many would agree that her treatment of you was ethical. Don't confuse it as such. When done well, partners don't feel less loved. Time and money are the finite resources, not love.

May I ask how many children you have? ...Because according to your analogy, no one should have more than one child! And yet, many people do it and do it really well! Just as many people parent one child poorly! It's the same with relationships. If you honestly want to understand ethical poly, then please stop comparing what happened to you to ethical poly....they're not the same! On the other hand, if you just wish to vent your anger and frustration, then feel free to ignore me Last thing, I've found that the more flexible I am, the more peaceful and happier my life is, and the less likely I am to be victimized

ETA: Just as there are many benefits to having siblings, there are benefits from your partner having other partners. They just vary by relationship and they aren't for everyone.

 

[WhatHappened]

Look, as much as people don't want to admit it, having more than one kid takes less away from the others....

Unfortunately, I don't have time to read and respond to all your posts right now, but I just want to add to this one. Having multiple kids, you're right, OF COURSE I have less money per child than someone with only one. OF COURSE their lives are very different because of their siblings. But this multiple kids analogy is severely flawed in another respect that is at least as important:

We are meant to raise kids with the expectation that they grow up and go out on their own some day. Even apart from the sexual and romantic aspects that make the child analogy totally ridiculous, we do not enter a romantic relationship with the idea of eventually sending that person away, out on their own, to live a life apart from us.

Raising children is about enabling them to leave us, whereas a romantic relationship--at least to most people--is about finding someone who will stay with us, and with whom we will stay.

 

[GalaGirl]

Hearing your partner has feelings for someone else after showing no sign of that tendency throughout a 20 year relationship (nearly 17 years of them marriage) is a stunning, and startling revelation.

Yep. Def stunning.

And sure, some are alright with such a change, but certainly not all. And all we get told by the poly side, is to examine ourselves & figure out why we feel the way we do. But once that's done, there never seems to be an acceptance as to what our answers happen to be.

FWIW, I don't think it is selfish.

If your spouse decided they are poly? If spouse asked you to consider if that's something you are up for? You consider it. If you find it is not your cup of tea, it is not your cup of tea. Plain and simple. You inform the spouse where you stand. That isn't being selfish. That is being honest and up front about where you are at.

Then you and spouse have to decide what to do about the marriage.

I don't feel that after this many years of faithful devotion, supporting virtually EVERY decision she's ever made, that I should be treated as "selfish" for not being willing to share our marital bed.

How is your wife currently treating you like you are being selfish?

• Calling you names?
• Acting like you are witholding something from her that she's entitled to?
• Ignoring you?
• Something else?

That is not cool if she's doing that.

I've been told (by others) that my jealousy would probably disappear if I also found another partner. Which is insulting as it insinuates that I'm shallow for only looking to fulfill MY needs. I've also been told that I might change my mind once I see her make out with another woman. Also insulting, for the very same reason.

I don't think either of those changes in your behavior (i.e.: you start dating, you voyeur wife) is going to “solve” the jealousy/fear thing if the bottom line is that you feel unsafe because wife is behaving in ways that undermine emotional safety within the marriage. Who can feel safe when spouse is busy calling them names like “selfish” or treating them with disdain?

I mean, you could (date AND voyeur your wife) but if she's still (calling you names or treating you with disdain) you probably still will feel yucky. Those suggestions don't really apply to the situation at hand or help to solve it. The solution is for her to stop doing those things or for you to distance yourself away from her so it no longer affects you even if she continues.

I've always had a great deal of pride to know that she chose me to marry. Words could not express how fortunate I've always felt to have her. I felt like she was too good for me. Usually, when little comments like that would be made, she knew just what to say to make me feel fantastic.

That is something you might want to examine in your healing process when you get to that one. I know you had a lot of other things on your plate to work on with your counselor.

When you are ready to take that one on? Consider... How is she “too good” for you? You don't consider yourself worthy or good enough to have a partner? Do you talk in your head like you are “less than?” Do you believe "you are lucky to have relationships" or do you believe "you participate in the relationships you want to maintain"?

If so, some of that could be you contributing to the “not safe” vibe within your mind and subsequently within the marriage.

I'd been thinking about your other post. Are things any better for you since September? I know you had a lot going on and a lot of mourning things to process.

I hope your counselor is helping.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

But once someone else enters the picture, and takes up all of their time, and you're feeling like a 3rd wheel within your own marriage, you start to wonder what you did to deserve this extreme loss of attention & affection. My dad dies, and she was emotionally MIA. On my birthday, she spent the entire day texting him. How was I supposed to feel? "Gee, this is great that I have to force conversation with you on our date night. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll get a kiss goodnight in between watching movies with him. Of course I feel just as loved. Shouldn't it be obvious?"

This is someone who is claiming "poly" as a way station between mono relationships, not ethical non-monogamy or polyamory (as Pink Pig has pointed out.) This is what I see quite a few couples going through on this forum: one latches onto "poly" because she is not ready (or not sure) to let go of one relationship in favor of another. I'm getting a lot out of your participation, CTF, for your posts are well written and thoughtful, but there was no "poly" going on. It's more like an affair that's happening out in the open.

 

[Vinccenzo]

Even if being poly could be compared to being gay, as in born to that sexual orientation, it can't ever really be considered a need. A desire? Obsession? Strong want you'd be happy to act on - oh sure that all applies. A person can be the most gay of all and there is still no guarantee they will find even one person willing to have sex with them.

None of us of any shade of orientation come into this world with a guarantee of even one sexual partner. If we never have even one we will not die of it. And we are seeing this tug o war by people who DO already have a sexual partner. So we are back to it not being a need. Not really.

Trying to suggest it is a need after you've demonstrated a long history of not dying by having one partner only makes the assertion that you now need to have another is a manipulative approach. If you can't see a way to not have more than your one mono partner, you ARE saying the one mono partner isn't enough. So much so, you are contemplating it as worth losing that one partner, taking the other, and still not having a guarantee of finding more than that one new person. In essence, to the mono partner it is a trade in.

 

[FallenAngelina]

It's very tough to feel like you're not good enough. It's interesting, I've always had a great deal of pride to know that she chose me to marry. Words could not express how fortunate I've always felt to have her. I felt like she was too good for me. ......you start to wonder what you did to deserve this extreme loss of attention & affection.

I agree with GG that this is a good area for you to work on. Your marriage brought this aspect of your self perception to light, but it's not anything that your wife did to you, it's a self perception that was in place before you met her. I very much relate to your wife here because my husband has many times expressed the same feelings (and everything else you've expressed about a monogamous orientation.) "Too good for me" puts an awful lot of pressure on the partner and I tell you, that's not any responsibility I ever felt comfortable with. It's minimally flattering, but really is based on an insecure idea - that one partner is doing the other a huge favor just by being there. I've separated from my husband in large part because his well being was just too dependent on my approval of him and even though I "approve" and love him, it just can never be enough to keep him shored up. He would very much relate to "you start to wonder what you did to deserve this extreme loss of attention & affection" but the fact is that because of the loss, he's come to rely much more on his own inner resources and appears to be much more secure and introspective than he ever was when we were a unit. I think you'd get a lot out of examining your expectation of relationships and the assumption that years of admiration somehow earn you continued attention and affection. My own experience is that this reward system isn't very rewarding at all for either partner as the years roll on.

I hope you keep posting. I appreciate your being here.

 

[PinkPig]

Even if being poly could be compared to being gay, as in born to that sexual orientation, it can't ever really be considered a need. A desire? Obsession? Strong want you'd be happy to act on - oh sure that all applies.

Trying to suggest it is a need after you've demonstrated a long history of not dying by having one partner only makes the assertion that you now need to have another is a manipulative approach. If you can't see a way to not have more than your one mono partner, you ARE saying the one mono partner isn't enough. So much so, you are contemplating it as worth losing that one partner, taking the other, and still not having a guarantee of finding more than that one new person. In essence, to the mono partner it is a trade in.

I get this. And I agree, to an extent. But, I also know that years of trying to suppress part of who you are in an effort to make things work, or to follow socially accepted constraints, can become so suffocating that you reach a point where you just can't handle even one more second of it. Yes, we know the person in that position won't technically die...but it also doesn't mean the person can continue living the charade. It's unfortunate that the person wasn't brave enough, self aware enough or _____ enough to live authentically from the beginning, but it is what it is. Yes, there will be collateral damage and that's tragic and unfortunate. But, it is what it is. And, let's be honest, the mono partner also won't die just because the poly partner now wants to live authentically. Yes, the relationship will change, maybe end. And, that's sad. But, divorces happen all the time, and people recover from them all the time. I get that it can look like a trade in to the mono partner.... but, living authentically, not suppressing major parts of one's self, is wonderfully liberating even if the poly partner never has the opportunity to participate in a poly relationship.

Of course, like many others have said, most of the time the cheating partner really isn't poly.... he/she is just using it as a crutch or an excuse to excuse his/her transgressions. It sounds like this may have been the case with CTF's partner.

 

[KC43]

By your logic, having a same-sex partner isn't a *need* for someone who's gay, either. Someone who's gay won't die from having sex with someone of the opposite gender, either, no matter how strongly they feel that they should be with someone of the same gender. Does that mean they should never have sex with someone of the same gender, because they already have a sex partner even though it isn't one who fits with who they believe they are?

Then again... I knew a gay man who, in a sense, did die from having sex with someone of the opposite gender. He committed suicide because he was struggling so badly with having to be someone he wasn't, and he was terrified of the repercussions if he changed that.

Being accepted and loved for who you are is a basic human need that I would tend to think most, if not all, people share. If you're poly and you're living monogamously because you're afraid of not being accepted, or you're afraid to even acknowledge that's who you are, then your need is not being met. Every single time I've asked Hubby if he's okay with me being poly--and acting on it--his response has been, "It doesn't matter what I think. You need to be yourself, and I will never stand in the way of that." So apparently I'm not the only one who sees it as a need...

Then again, I guess we've established Hubby as somewhat of a rarity, at least in the opinions of some of the posters here.

 

[PinkPig]

Being accepted and loved for who you are is a basic human need that I would tend to think most, if not all, people share.

Yes to this! Even if you never experience a poly relationship though you identify as poly....or, even if you never have sex with a partner of your preferred gender.... To be loved and accepted for who you are, is incredibly freeing and awesome. Like finding home. And, yes, being accepted and loved for who you are, not who someone thinks you are and wants you to be, is worth giving up a long-term partner for, no matter how much you love him/her or he/she loves you. For me, loving and accepting myself (which is most important), is living true to who I am

 

[Vinccenzo]

By your logic, having a same-sex partner isn't a *need* for someone who's gay, either. Someone who's gay won't die from having sex with someone of the opposite gender, either, no matter how strongly they feel that they should be with someone of the same gender. Does that mean they should never have sex with someone of the same gender, because they already have a sex partner even though it isn't one who fits with who they believe they are?

Then again... I knew a gay man who, in a sense, did die from having sex with someone of the opposite gender. He committed suicide because he was struggling so badly with having to be someone he wasn't, and he was terrified of the repercussions if he changed that.

Being accepted and loved for who you are is a basic human need that I would tend to think most, if not all, people share. If you're poly and you're living monogamously because you're afraid of not being accepted, or you're afraid to even acknowledge that's who you are, then your need is not being met. Every single time I've asked Hubby if he's okay with me being poly--and acting on it--his response has been, "It doesn't matter what I think. You need to be yourself, and I will never stand in the way of that." So apparently I'm not the only one who sees it as a need...

Then again, I guess we've established Hubby as somewhat of a rarity, at least in the opinions of some of the posters here.

I am in no way suggesting people should have sex they don't want to have. I do however, believe that orientation is something separate from opportunity and consent. People don't die from lack of sex. People have died from being forced to have sex they don't want. While we are a social species, companionship comes in many forms.

I have sympathy for someone really super wanting something and having large, emotionally charged obstacles to attaining that want. But I find it an obvious attempt at manipulation to suggest it is a need or that they must have their orientation served by an unwilling partner. We have a word for that.

That makes it boil down to "I want to have sex with so and so. It is a desire so strong I am willing to end things with you to do so". It can't possibly be a need to have sex with many. Even if you have no so and so you're interested in being with and what you are saying you want is an in general blessing to seek others, life gives you no guarantee you will find even one. Calling it a need is just another version of the old wives tale about dying from blue balls.

I truely believe trying to convince a mono partner of poly being your orientation and therefore a NEED to be counter productive insult to their intelligence. They know it isn't a need, not really. They've witnessed you survive sometimes decades without another partner. Don't try to manipulate them into a situation they don't want. Say it right out with honesty that pursuing poly is more important than continuing a mono relationship with them.

 

[Tinwen]

...

Do you believe in emotional needs of any kind?

 

[CTF]

Ctf, don't confuse what happened with your wife with ethical poly. I don't think many would agree that her treatment of you was ethical. Don't confuse it as such. When done well, partners don't feel less loved. Time and money are the finite resources, not love.

May I ask how many children you have? ...Because according to your analogy, no one should have more than one child! And yet, many people do it and do it really well! Just as many people parent one child poorly! It's the same with relationships. If you honestly want to understand ethical poly, then please stop comparing what happened to you to ethical poly....they're not the same! On the other hand, if you just wish to vent your anger and frustration, then feel free to ignore me Last thing, I've found that the more flexible I am, the more peaceful and happier my life is, and the less likely I am to be victimized

ETA: Just as there are many benefits to having siblings, there are benefits from your partner having other partners. They just vary by relationship and they aren't for everyone.

My struggle has little to do with "ethical poly", the fact is, that it's the poly itself that I will NEVER be comfortable with. At least, when it comes to acting on it. My wife could have done this in a completely "by the book" manner, and it still wouldn't have changed my opinion on the subject. Sure, there may have been a tad more trust there, but there is no scenario in which I could ever be on board with her sleeping with, or having a romantic involvement with, period.

And it's true, there are some differences that make the child analogy seem less than apt. - however, take a look through the eyes of one of the siblings in question and tell me that children don't often feel less loved. I'm not saying that it's intentionally so, and I'm not saying that there aren't ways to make it work, but these are issues that MUST be taken into consideration before making a decision to have more kids. Also, if you'll notice, my analogy was in reference to parents bringing another child into the home in order to fill a need that the current child was not fulfilling. Much like we hear someone talk about common interests & activities, or even sexual fantasies that the current partner is not fulfilling. I was essentially answering Dingedheart's question about what I'd say/how I'd feel about my wife telling me she would need additional partners if I was unable to keep up with her in the bedroom.

In answer to your question, I have three children. I am in no way to suggest that everyone only have one child. I know that there are people from other countries, but I'm not advocating the Chinese one child policy. Yes, there are great parents that have many children, and there are terrible parents with only one child. But the point is, that the feelings of the children must always be taken into consideration. Time & resources are limited, and in many circumstances, the kids perception of being loved can also be limited.

While it's difficult to explain, since each of us can only relate to our own interpretations, but I do strongly believe that love (and every other emotion for that matter) is quantifiable, and not limited. Quite often, when these circumstances arrive, the poly partner is quick to tell the primary (or mono in the beginning stages) that while they love the new partner, they love that primary partner more. If this is true, then they're effectively proving that love is measurable, and therefore finite. If they really don't love one more than the other - but are just saying that to preserve feelings - then the current (primary, etc...) feels slighted & less important since after such a short time, someone new can come into the picture & gain just as much love as the one who has devoted years - even decades - to their partner. I believe that in strong, successful relationships, love grows. And so, in my case (for example) if it took 20 years to get the love my wife has for me currently, how does it seem fair that someone else can come in & receive the same thing after just a few months?

As for the benefits to having siblings... I suppose you're right in some aspects. Of course, I'm not a shining example since I just have one sister, and we were never all that close growing up. Benefits for my wife having other partners.... Sorry, I strongly disagree with that. I see no benefit whatsoever there, only the loss of many aspects of what made our relationship so great over the years.