Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.: Merged Threads, General Discussion

MonoVCPHG said:
Jealousy is observed in infants 6 months old. It's not a social construct in it's basic form. Social conditioning can shape the manifestation and expected reactions to it, but it exists as a documented emotional response.

http://www.depts.ttu.edu/communications/news/stories/06-03-infant-jealousy.php
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Competing for a mother's milk isn't exactly the same as being jealous. That sounds like a little projection there. Besides, even infants imitate what they observe around them at a very early age. Studies have shown that infants begin imitating facial movements of those around them as early as one hour after birth. They develop the same facial expressions of the people they see all the time; when a baby learns to walk, they adopt the gait and armswing of the parents they see most often; and when they begin to vocalize, they imitate the tone and cadence of their caregivers. Jealousy is quite possibly something else that is observed and imitated. By the time a kid is about seven years old, the cake is baked and they have already made choices unconsciously about strategies for living. I learned this when I was studying bodywork and have seen these things firsthand when I used to take care of my friends' babies.
 
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nycindie said:
That sounds like a little projection there.
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Not sure if you are referring to me projecting or the article. I'mnot here to argue the brain-mapping science, my friend. There are other references, but who needs to beat a dead horse? Just adding my perspective and opinion based on science that I didn't create or project. Other animals exhibit traits of jealousy. It's a survival mechanism to ensure needs get met. Obviously not an issue within the poly environment, where love is considered infinite. But hey, just my addition.
 
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I like some of your thinking, polyFM. By being a part of the greater consciousness of humanity, I think we inherit some of humanity's dysfunctions, and perhaps one could argue that jealousy is one of those things that we inherit, to a degree. But I also believe that mostly we learn it, even as infants.

I believe that our very core nature is not a jealous one. So yes, perhaps the journey into polyamory is a form of shedding learned and inherited social constructs into something more in line with our true natures.

I just wish there was a pill I could take to help me shed the jealous nature. LOL
 
Cool. Mono, I should clarify, in the context of intimate relationships, I'm beginning to think that jealousy had no place up until recently, that once agriculture kicked in, a shortage of intimacy was introduced, leading to the jealousy that serves as a background noise to so many relationships today.

polyexplorer, you just typed up my own convictions more eloquently than I ever could. :)
 
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MonoVCPHG said:
Not sure if you are referring to me projecting or the article.
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No, not you, Mono. I meant that I think the scientists who saw competition and interpreted it as jealousy might have been projecting their own take on what they observed a little bit. And my feedback was based on other scientific findings. So... we could go round and round.
 
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nycindie said:
Let's go round and round on the dance floor instead.
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I like your attitude! I often wonder how people could relate in person. I bet we'd make great dance partners... once I had a few drinks... Not that I dance better then, I just think I can. ;)
 
I think that we make a mistake any time we look at our own experiences and try to generalize out to humanity. One person could say, "I can't get over my jealousy, no matter what I try, so jealousy is innate, and polyamorous people are just fooling themselves when they say they're happy." Another person could say, "I got over my jealousy with a little trying, so jealousy is just a construct and monogamous folks just aren't trying hard enough." (Please note that I don't mean you're saying that exactly, OP, but some people do take it that far.)

Both would be wrong, though, because they're assuming that their experience can act as a stand-in for all of the human race. Certainly we can learn lessons from our own lives that can help some others, maybe even many others, but rarely, if ever, ALL others. In this case, for example, I would say from my reading and observations that jealousy is real and natural, and maybe impossible to let go of for some, non-existent or easy to let go of for others, and most are in the middle of those two extremes. They feel it as a real thing that does exist, but can let it go with some time and work.
 
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nycindie said:
Competing for a mother's milk isn't exactly the same as being jealous. Jealousy is possibly something else that is observed and imitated.
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I agree here: when my she-baby was 2-months old, she caught me while stupidly saying to my son, who was 3, "Hey, let her do that, she's so young." This tiny infant looked at me, not in the way you expect a newborn baby to do, and considered that concept very carefully. It took me one year to demolish this "concept," while my son became very jealous.

Paradoxically, when their father married another woman (no, not poly, we split) and the couple received their first kid, my daughter realized she was no longer the youngest, or at least not so young, and completely discarded that attitude. But my son had Bach Flower Holly for a very long period of time (read: every time his father received his 3 newborns) and it seems to me he healed this.
 
Recipe for Jealousy :

1 part nature
1 part nurture
Combine in a bowl, mixing at slow speed. Bake at 350 until a firm crust is visible on the outside.

Very simple recipe.

I tend to stay away from theories that involve lopsided viewpoints, or unexperienced parenthood. Spoiler alert, people are complex. It takes most people a lot of self-work to get to a place where life feels simple and enjoyable.
 
Have you checked the book recommendations sticky? If there aren't any recommendations in that thread for books about jealousy, I suggest Loving Each Other by Leo Buscaglia. It was written a while ago, but he was brilliant about love and relationships. You can read a little bit of his chapter on jealousy if you search for the word using Amazon's "search inside" feature.
 
Back again! Heh.

My boyfriend has started seeing someone else. I'm surprised at how hard I'm taking this. It's what I signed up for! I'm fine with my husband spending time with his girlfriend. But this just feels... different, somehow. Boyfriend hasn't really been seeing anyone regularly in the time we've been together, and it just feels very sudden and a bit scary.

It also seems like we had just reached a place in our relationship where we love and trust each other very, very much. It had been sort of giddy and delightful, something I don't think we allowed ourselves to feel at the beginning of our relationship. And now it feels like he'll be having that NRE-type stuff with someone else instead.

We've talked a lot about this, and some of it has been difficult. He is very protective of his autonomy, and I don't want to infringe upon that, but am having a hard time dealing with my fears of abandonment and unimportance. There were issues in our relationship, early on, that only exacerbated this (and occasionally still do, though much less often.)

All last week, I was literally sick to my stomach with anxiety about all of this. We did spend some time together before he left on a trip, and that went a long way toward reassuring me, but I'm still feeling a bit lost and unsettled. And I'm comparing myself to his new friend! (STOP IT, I know!) Gah. I think time will probably be the best thing for it, but advice, etc., are welcome.
 
One more thing that has just occurred to me: we've had issues with him bringing up other people in what are very physically and emotionally vulnerable moments (for instance, cuddling after sex.) We've talked about it before, and I thought he understood that it was an important boundary, but he did this recently, talking about the new person he's seeing and wondering if she had found it awkward when we met. Needless to say, I didn't take this well. I'm not asking him to never mention others, just not in these private and vulnerable moments. I don't think this is unreasonable, and I don't know what to do if he can't or won't respect this.
 
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Fiona, I hear what you're saying about not wanting all the NRE to go to his newest relationship. NRE is a great high, and I still enjoy a lot of it with my bf. But fact of the matter is, NRE doesn't last forever. At some point your relationship will transition to the more settled kind, with or without him dating someone new. Just hold on. The love will still be there. :)

I totally understand that it is hard to adjust to your bf dating when it's something he's hardly ever done since you've been together. Change is never an easy thing; it may take you a bit of time to adapt, and that's okay. I think if he truly loves you, he'll be happy to reassure you when needed and give you the time you need to accept his new relationship.

Does he still give you the attention you need and deserve, or have things changed too much too fast?

I'm sure him mentioning the new person right after sex was probably just an oversight. He's probably not trying to hurt you, but sometimes guys can be oblivious. Next time, when he starts talking about the new lover, just gently shush him and remind him with a smile that you'd rather talk about something else NOW, and her later.
 
Nouryia, thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply. Things have been moving pretty quickly, which is unsettling. But we've talked a lot recently, and he's been reassuring, which is very good. I think I just need time to get used to the idea. I asked my husband if I was like this when he started dating his current girlfriend, and he said yes. I just think I need to work on the way I handle change.

As for the mentioning of the new person during an intimate moment... Gah. That stung. And I've made it clear to him before that it makes me uncomfortable. But I'll try your suggestion. Thanks!
 
What triggers jealousy for you?

Although polyamorous people probably experience less jealousy (or deal with it more effectively) than monogamous people, jealousy is still very real for many poly people. It's probably different from monogamous jealousy though; I know it is for me.

When trying to explain the way I get jealous to monogamous friends, I like to use what I call the cake analogy. In the analogy, "couple behavior" with someone (in a relationship or otherwise) is symbolized by a cake. If I'm interested in that person, it's an amazingly delicious chocolate fudge cake. If I have a slice of cake, and I'm happy with the size of my slice, I don't have any problem sharing the rest of the cake with other people. However, if I'm not allowed to have any delicious cake, and there's someone eating some in front of me going, "This cake is amazing", I get angry and jealous.

I wonder this type of jealousy is common among polyamorous people, or not. What kind of situations trigger jealousy in you? How do you deal with it when it does happen?
 
OMGosh! That is exactly how I see it myself. :D I am so glad to read this. It makes so much sense. Thank you for posting, it has truly helped me. I know this is my first post, but I've been lurking for a while now. This makes tremendous sense to me and I will be sharing it with my SO.
 
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