Jealousy, Envy, Insecurity, etc.: Merged Threads, General Discussion

I tend to deal with jealousy by reminding myself that I am living a life I chose to live and that I enjoy living. So when I feel twinges of jealousy sometimes, to see my sister surrounded by her children and live-in partner, while I live alone and am childless, I remind myself that the feelings are fleeting, that I love my life, and that I'd be deeply depressed to be living the way my sister does, however much it may seem like fun for moments. Then I turn my attention to things I like about my life.

If I feel jealous because somebody close to me is becoming close to somebody else, I remind myself that nobody else is my property, that everybody in my life is free to do as they choose, just as I am free to do as I choose. I might be sad if things drifted so much we were no longer close, but I remind myself that I'd rather go through the pain of loss than try to hold onto somebody who no longer wants to be there.


There are few that have the qualities I have, and whether completely true or not, as long as I believe that, I worry about no man and hence, suffer no jealousy.

I always think that's a weird way of dealing with jealousy, the idea that to feel okay, you have to feel as if you are better than most people, and therefore, don't need to fear them. It seems limiting to me.

I find great value in spending time with people who are better than I am at things I want to be good at, or who have qualities I would love to have. I find that being around people who can do things that I aspire to be able to do, or who do the things important to me better than I do, is a good way of becoming better at those things myself.

Few things make me happier than to see somebody whom I have been mentoring getting better at whatever I'm teaching them. If they can get better at whatever it is than I am, I feel a deep joy at having been part of their learning process. Plus, I feel a selfish happiness that there is somebody else in the world who I can turn to for help when I need it.

The notion of dealing with jealousy by feeling better than others just doesn't fit at all in my world view.
 
I never get jealous is for reasons that would be immodest to speak about. There are few that have the qualities I have, and whether completely true or not, as long as I believe that, I worry about no man and hence, suffer no jealousy.

I always think that's a weird way of dealing with jealousy, the idea that to feel okay, you have to feel as if you are better than most people, and therefore, don't need to fear them. It seems limiting to me.

I agree with IP. We all have strengths and weaknesses. Even if there are "few" that have the qualities that I have, out of billions of people on the planet, that still means that many, many people have those qualities, and a LOT of people outshine me in those areas. Good for them. I can't think of a single "quality" that would auto-magically outshine the human weaknesses that we all exhibit. Those that love me, love me for the whole person that is me, strengths and weaknesses and all. I don't have to be jealous, not because I outshine all others, but because there is room for everyone, even me, to shine.
 
underlining jealousy issues

I don't know for sure, but it seems like between my primary (male) partner and my local girlfriend, there is a lot of jealousy that ends up coming up, at least on her end towards my primary.

I put up a journal entry not that long ago on Fetlife about how I have been with her for a very long time, but I feel awkward around her sexually, and I don't particularly understand why that is. I know I am sexually attracted to her, and do want to be with her, but I want when we are together for the first time to be special. I don't want it to just be meaningless sex and nothing else. I have come to realize that most of my sexual encounters with females have been meaningless sex, not real making love.

I also realize I need to go out of my way to spend time with her more, and when I am around her, to not bring up my primary partner as much. (I thought I had done less of this lately, seeing how the last time I saw her I think I mentioned him maybe twice.) But I can tell the way she looks at it is that he gets all the attention and she does not. :( It is obvious I do not have the greatest communication skills in the world, and that needs to change. I don't particularly communicate with my primary that well either.

I don't feel that my issues in my relationships are from me not caring. I feel like it's from the fact I have soo fucking much shit going on, and I also have mental disorders out the ass. And goddamn near everything I say, thanks to Fetlife and Facebook, eventually comes back to everyone else, even when I am not trying to be a dick. lol Sometimes I just want to vent my emotions out of my system, but NOT have to deal with all my partners reading the shit and taking it to heart, when they really should not be.

I know, to some degree, she does not think my current primary partner is right for me, but she knows I am in love with him and he makes me happy. Even though she feels certain ways on certain things, she tries not to let her emotions get in the way of how I want to be, what I want to do.

She started seeing him differently after he and I broke up for a short time, but I feel like her judgement on this was kind of unfair. She broke up with me too, and we stayed broken up for a whole year. It's not like breaking up means you don't work, or you are NEVER going to work, and I feel like she should know this better then anyone. I wear a ring on my hand that reminds me of her every day.

Sometimes I feel like she is on the verge of not wanting to try to be with me anymore, and it damn near breaks my heart to to think she feels that way. But sometimes I feel at a loss. I have a lot going on in my life with primary, work, school, my animal's health, me trying to move out of my mother's house, dealing with ALL the pitfalls of my mental and physical health.

We do talk a lot more then we used to. I know it was a bigger issue before than it is now.

I am trying to do everything I can think of to make things better, but that is not really working out as well as I would have hoped it would.

I have a good feeling I can and will work things out with both her and my primary. It's just super frustrating right now and I am having a hard time.

I needed a place to vent where it would not come back to bite me in the ass, or being taken personally, which is not what I intended with any of the stuff I did.
 
Hi kala83,

Hope you guys get some of the issues sorted out. I would suggest not mentioning your primary partner at all to your girlfriend. It doesn't sound like she can handle that at all.

You've got a lot on your plate; just tackle one thing at a time.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

I put up a journal entry not that long ago on Fetlife about how...

near everything I say thanks to Fetlife and Facebook... eventually comes back to everyone else.... even when I am not trying to be a dick.

I needed a place to vent where it would not come back to bite me in the ass, or being taken personally, which is not what I intended.

I notice this "posting things online" thing comes up several times. Perhaps posting here isn't going to meet that want, because they could stumble on it here too?

  • Could you write on paper and then tear it up and trash it once your work out your stuff?
  • Could you talk with a friend?
  • Could you talk with a counselor?

Then you could express yourself and vent your frustration to feel better, without there being anything for your GF or BF to find later, making a fuss, and then adding THAT layer to your already full plate. Could that help reduce the stress some?

Galagirl
 
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I notice this "posting things online" thing comes up several times. Perhaps posting here isn't going to meet that want, because they could stumble on it here too?

  • Could you write on paper and then tear it up and trash it once your work out you stuff?
  • Could you talk with a friend?
  • Could you talk with a counselor?
Then you could express yourself and vent frustration to feel better, without there being anything for your GF or BF to find later, making a fuss, and then adding THAT layer to your already full plate. Could that help reduce the stress some?
I didn't think that the journal entry was phrased in a way that would be taken offensively, and her response to the entry was not so much that I had put it up, as it was that I had seen her a few days ago and that I could have brought up what I was venting about or confused by in the journal with her when I had seen her in person.

And that is my bad. I could have brought it up, but admitting out loud I am having issues with my partner of a sexual nature, when I truly want to not feel that way, is hard enough to bring up and talk about at all. I have a difficult time socially interacting with other people due to dealing with Asperger's.

So I guess there was a thought in my head that if I spoke about what was on my mind, my emotions would be running how I spoke, rather then having it thought out better. That was the main reason I put off talking about it with her.

I think starting up a journal specifically for my poly issues might be a good way to vent and keep things off my mind. I just always feel comfortable coming in here and talking to people. Not that I snoop on my partners, but they do not come in to message boards like I do. They do talk on poly groups and such, but that’s mostly on FB.

I do have a councillor I speak to, but since I started my new job, and I have a lot to take care of at the house when I have time off, going in as steadily as I used to is slightly difficult. But I am supposed to be going in to see him next week.

I have spoken to my girlfriend since now, and we both agree that our communication with each other could be a lot better, but it's ok. We can work on our stuff together, just like my primary and I are. The one thing that makes me feel good about things is that my partners, for a change, are actually acting like adults and we all are working through things, which, sadly, is a lot more than what I have gotten before in the past.
 
I guess there was a thought in my head that if I spoke about what was on my mind, my emotions would be running how I spoke, rather then having it thought out better. That was the main reason I put off talking about it with her.

I think starting up a journal specifically for my poly issues might be a good way to vent and keep things off my mind. I just always feel comfortable coming in here and talking to people... My partners do not come in to message boards like I do.

Sometimes a thought is still percolating and it's not ready to come out yet. For me, journals (and even my blog thread) can be a way of working out those thoughts *into* something that I can talk about. I've tried talking while the thought is still forming, and that always ends up with MORE talking (and explaining, and un-explaining) later.

You know how communication works for you, and that's okay. Maybe if someone asks, you can say you're thinking about something, but not ready to talk yet, but if they're the type to push, it can just make things more frustrating.

And, BTW, I'm a *talker* and I still do this. It's not a bad thing to get your thoughts aligned first. :)
 
Have you also tried asking your partners NOT to read your online journaling? I think if it were me, even if this information were public, if it had a history of causing upset, I'd just explain that this was how I was processing my thoughts, and make the polite request that they not snoop around until I'm ready to bring it up in person. (That being said, I wouldn't air my jumbled thoughts out in a public forum either, that's what my notebook is for, but the principle still stands. My girlfriend has easy access to my paper journal, but I have asked her to never go there, and I trust her not to.)
 
That is my bad, I could have brought it up, but admitting a loud I am having issues with my partner of a sexual nature, when I truly want to not feel that way,

It is hard enough to bring up and talk about at all. I also have a difficult time socially interacting with other people due to dealing with Asperger's.

How is it bad to need more time to sort out your thoughts on your own first in order to become more willing and able to talk with her later?

What do you need? If you were to circle from the list, what would it be?

https://www.cnvc.org/Training/needs-inventory

Galagirl
 
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Thanks for the helpful comments, everyone.

I'm investigating various articles right now about tackling jealousy. I guess I'm afraid of losing time with Perry. I'm also afraid that he'll enjoy the NRE so much that he focuses entirely on her (he tends to get tunnel vision) and forgets me, or starts to resent his time with me. But even just typing it out now makes it sound pretty silly.

He also has said a few times before that he gets bored/lonely when I'm with Ray, and that's part of why he wants another girlfriend. That in itself makes me feel really weird, like he's going after it for the wrong reason, but I'm trying to focus on the good things and remind myself that the way he feels now (excited and curious) is the way I feel about men all the time! I know I need to loosen my grip. It's just really difficult because society has trained me to squeeze him until he suffocates. Yay.

I know Perry loves me and is dedicated to me. I've never had a metamour before, though. I'm scared of change, although a small part of me is a little excited that there might be a potential friend in it for me.

He's been talking to a new lady who sounds significantly nicer and more patient than the other two. He seems genuinely interested in her and vice versa. She sounds willing to be patient and to meet me, which IS really important to me. I feel strongly that I need to be friends with my metamour in order to feel comfortable in it. I need her to have my back. Is that an okay way to look at it?
 
I'm also in a weird place because Jay is moving out and we likely won't stay together after he does. Jay is a big reason why Perry and I haven't had the relationship we wanted to have. (He imposed a DADT policy.) On one hand, this is great because Perry and I can become a little more open about who we are to each other. On the other hand, I have a hard time with change, and I'm worried we might miss our chance at a "second honeymoon" stage because he's getting invested in this new girl. I'm lame, I know.
 
Re (from CaptainCharisma):
"I feel strongly that I need to be friends with my metamour in order to feel comfortable in it -- I need her to have my back. Is that an okay way to look at it?"

Everyone has their own wants and needs; you have yours and there's nothing wrong with that. You may end up having to decide what to do if some future metamour isn't willing to meet you. But you don't have to cross that bridge yet, so I think things are fine.

Hang in there during this time of change.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Struggling with jealousy, fear

I'm really struggling in a new polyamorous relationship. My partner has a new girlfriend, and while both of us were supportive of polyamory in theory, in practice it is proving extremely difficult for me to handle.

Our relationship was recovering from a very rocky few months when he started going out with his girlfriend. (She is also in a relationship with another married man, but she and they live out of state; they communicate online.) I do not think that the timing was at all appropriate, but what's done is done.

We also have our own relationship problems that we're working through. I struggle with depression and anxiety, and I'm a controlling person. I know this, and so I have tried to be very, very careful of what I say or do. If there is something I'm unhappy about, something that I want to change, is this a reasonable request, or is it a selfish request? If there's something that I want to know, is it acceptable to ask for that information, or do I just want to know because I feel the need to know everything?

I am really struggling to be okay with this relationship. I'm struggling to find my boundaries and figure out what desires and actions on my part are acceptable.

The best and worst parts are that our relationship is actually doing really well since they've gotten together! Sometimes I have to explicitly request some time and attention, but he's been very attentive with giving me what I need. He's been very loving and affectionate lately, and I'm so happy about that. I think he's happy with her. It's hard for me to tell because I know I'm not able to see the situation properly.

One issue in particular that I struggle with is that he refuses to say that I am his primary partner. He says he won't have a primary. He says he just loves us differently and it's not fair to ask him to pick a favorite. (They are still in a very new relationship, still just dating, btw.)

I know I would feel much better knowing that I am his primary partner, but I can't tell if that desire comes from jealousy/fear, or if it's a reasonable request. He and I are engaged, and I'm not sure what kind of marriage we can have if I am not his primary partner. We live together. He tells me that I'm his "favorite person," (one of the things we say to each other as a way of declaring our love), and that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. But how can he say that and also deny that I'm his primary partner? I know I'm motivated by jealousy in this, but is this really an unreasonable expectation?

To be honest, I'm really not certain that I can handle this at all. I have depression and anxiety, and I know that that is not helping me cope right now. (If anyone knows of a poly/LGBTQ friendly counselor/shrink in southwest Ohio area they can recommend, I would appreciate it!) I have good days and I have bad days. On good days I can forget all about his girlfriend. On bad days I obsess about it and I can't stop thinking about it. Obviously obsessing is bad, but I'm not sure that forgetting is really healthy, either.

Today is a bad day. The last few days have been. I don't know if I want to be in a relationship with someone who isn't devoted exclusively to me. I know that's selfish, but it also might not be unreasonable, if that's what I need for me.

I want to ask him to leave her. But I know I can't. I couldn't do that to him. We talked about it once, what would happen if I couldn't handle it? He said he wouldn't leave her, not because he's in love with her, (as I said, this is a new relationship), but because if it isn't her, it's going to be someone else.

I think he's happier. He's certainly been having more good days than usual himself. I really want to be able to cope with this new relationship dynamic and figure out where I fit into everything. if I can't, I'll have to leave him, because I can't expect him to change who he is. I love him so much. He's my world and we've been through so much together. He's my best friend and my lover and my partner and my life mate. He is the life I want. I just don't know how to handle the life he wants.

Any advice or anecdotes would be helpful. I would like advice on how to handle the "primary" issue. Is it wrong to ask for that label? I want it to mean "the one he loves most" but I know I can't dictate love. I also need it to mean "the one he lives with and spends the most time with," because we're supposed to be building a life and a household together. How can I do that if I'm not the primary in his life? Or do I have it all wrong?
 
What does primary actually mean to you? Does it mean that he will sacrifice everything and anyone else to maintain your relationship?

Say he has something planned with someone else, but you're having a bad day and would prefer him around. Does he cancel, as you're the "primary"? Or does it mean the "partner(s) I am legally and practically bound to" but does not signify hierarchy, as it does with other people?

It's perfectly acceptable to expect your live-in partner to maintain the relationship and the house, come home regularly, spend quality time with you and stick to agreements. I'd say those are pretty much universal expectations for anyone. However, a hierarchy where you get to be number 1 isn't universal in polyamory. It isn't necessarily unreasonable, but you need to find a partner who wants that in their life. I know that I don't, and about half the poly people I know won't have any form of hierarchy in their relationships. None whatsoever. Others are a little more open to it.

I do think he is being selfish, yes, but perhaps for other reasons than you suspect he might be. I think he's selfish for committing to a serious relationship with someone who is obviously monogamous when he clearly wants a relationship style that more closely resembles egalitarian polyamory. The admirable thing is that he has been honest and clearly set boundaries.
 
...
Any advice or anecdotes would be helpful. I would like advice on how to handle the "primary" issue. Is it wrong to ask for that label? I want it to mean "the one he loves most" but I know I can't dictate love. I also need it to mean "the one he lives with and spends the most time with," because we're supposed to be building a life and a household together. How can I do that if I'm not the primary in his life? Or do I have it all wrong?

I have been with my now-husband for 23 years, and my boyfriend for 4. Each relationship is different, but I do prioritize my obligations to my established relationship above my obligations to a "potential" relationship. I classify, in the hierarchical sense, my relationship with Dude as "working toward co-primary." Whether (or not) that will happen remains to be seen.

I think that you need to decide what "primary " really means to you. If he is actively "building a life and household together" with you, then I would ask you why do you need the "label" when you have the "action"?
 
Hi coursair,

I don't know if it will help, but here are some links for finding a poly/LGBTQ friendly counselor:

You love your partner, he is the one for you, etc., except for just one little thing, only that one thing isn't so little! He wants to live polyamorously, and you are finding that you're not okay about that.

Re (from OP):
"I would like advice on how to handle the 'primary' issue ... is it wrong to ask for that label?"

No. But it is also not wrong for him to not want to give that label. This is one more issue on which you and he are incompatible.

Some polyamorists use primary/secondary labeling. Some don't. I am in an MFM V in which my two companions are legally/lawfully married to each other, and yet, I am not a secondary partner to them. All three of us are considered primary.

Anyway that's one example.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thank you, guys, for your input.

After much consideration and talking with my partner, I've realized that the reason I want that "primary" label so badly is because it feels like a shield. I'm so terrified of losing him, that he'll love someone else more than he loves me, and leave me. I wanted him to tell me that I'll always be his primary as reassurance against that. But he is reassuring me that that won't happen when he refuses to give me that label because he can't call us primary or secondary because we're not on the same playing field. He doesn't love one of us more than the other. He loves us both differently.

Now, knowing that is one thing, really getting it is something else. It will take me a while to really internalize that fact and get over my fears of losing him just because he's dating someone else. It didn't help that I was already afraid of losing him before he even started dating her. But that fear lies with ME, not with US.

Thank you for the counseling resources, Kevin. I'll definitely be looking into those.
 
No problem; I hope you get to feeling more secure about the situation over time.
 
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