Just don't know what to do

B

blueeuedjamie81

New member
New, unsure and looking for advice

My name is Jamie. I am a 35 year old transsexual woman and have been in a relationship with another woman for the past 3 years. She proposed a few months after we started dating but we have yet to actually get married.

My hesitation comes from our history together. A few months after we got engaged I found out that she was trying to sleep with other people. Specifically, there was 1 person that she talked to twice about sleeping with. Needless to say, I was livid. I was packing my stuff to leave when she talked me into staying.

You see, she is bi-polar and when she swings into hypo-mania, the part of her brain that considers the consequences of her actions basically turns off. How could I get upset at something that she has little control over, right?

Fast forward about 9 months. Things have been good. I grab her phone to change her background to a naughty photo of me as a surprise (we have done this back and forth a few times) an what do I see? An explicit text message from the guy she was texting before. Once again, she was planning on sleeping with him.

Another blowup, where I start packing my stuff to leave and she manages to talk me down once more. This time, she also promises to cut off all contact with the guy, and asks me to check in on her messages, web history, etc. once in a while when I notice that she is starting to go hypo-manic.

She has been starting to go hypo-manic recently, so as I promised, I started checking in her. A few things stand out, but nothing major. Then I check her messages. It is a different guy this time.

Let me give a little history of this guy. They were friends with benefits for a while before her and I met. She developed feelings for him, and when she told him that they should either "fish or cut bait" he chose to cut bait and walk away. Since then, they had been friends off and on. He is the jealous type and has never had any nice thing to say about anyone she dated.

With her an I, he has bad mouthed me consistently from the start, trying to break us up. That wouldn't bother me as much if it weren't for the fact that she never really stood up for me. She would just ignore it and change the subject. It has been apparent to me for a while that he has feelings for her.

He would also do things just to make me upset. Recently, his hot water heater exploded, so he brought his laundry over to our place to do. Nothing wrong with that, but when I came home, he was in basketball shorts. Keep in mind that it was 6 degrees Fahrenheit out that day. I wouldn't have thought much of it, but he was acting really guilty. When I asked my fiance about it later, she said that he wanted to be in his underwear when I got home just to make me upset.

I hope you get the idea of the type of guy this is. Back to the text messages... he texted her that he loved her. She responded that she loved him too and would wait "as long as it takes" for him. Naturally, when I read this, I gave my engagement ring back to her and once again started to pack my stuff to leave.

This time, she once again convinced me to stay. I told her that if I stayed, I would not be comfortable with the two of them being friends. She promised to cut off contact with him. We also talked about the things that had happened between the two of them. They had kissed and cuddled, but nothing else. We also had a long conversation about our relationship, where it's at, and what we need to do to fix it.

The next day, she had a list of things we could do to make our relationship stronger. The last thing she brought up was poly relationship.

I told her that I would think about it, but until I decided, I would prefer if she did not see him, and also asked her, that if she was going to message him until I decided, not to message him around me.

Since then, he has been pushing her to meet up, and she has messaged him while sitting next to me.

I don't know what to do. I don't want to break her heart. I feel like if I say yes, and we come up with some ground rules, he won't respect them at all, and will keep pushing to get me out of the picture. Although a small request, I feel like her not being able to keep from messaging him around me is also telling.

At the same time, I want her to be happy. Being loved is a beautiful thing. I just don't know what to do from here. I don't know if I would be okay with opening up our relationships like that, and I really don't know if I would be okay with him.

I think I'm still open to exploring the idea, but don't know how to go about it. I would like to explore the idea slowly in baby steps to see how I feel, but also worry that the longer it gets dragged out the harder it will be for her to break it off if I decide that I can't handle it.

Sorry for the novel. I'm just lost with everything and am hoping for some guidance.
 
One thing I'll say is this: you don't need to worry about him respecting the ground rules. You just need to trust that she will respect the ground rules. She is in control of her actions. If he oversteps the mark, she can tell him to back off, etc. If you and she negotiate and agree to opening your relationship at a slow pace that you are comfortable with, then it's on her to stick with that, no matter how pushy he may or may not be.

To me, I'm sensing a lot of mistrust of your partner in your post here - you seem to be keeping track of her many breaches of your trust in a way that suggests that you and she are not entirely healed yet. I wouldn't recommend opening up until you two are on solid ground. And whilst her bipolar disorder might explain some of her erratic behaviour, it should not excuse it. Is she keeping to a treatment program? If not, I wouldn't go anywhere near a poly set-up with her at all. You need to be able to trust your partners to keep their word, to mean what they say when they say it, mental health issues or not.
 
I guess it's not so much about him following the ground rules as much as it would be hard knowing that she is with someone that doesn't respect us.

You are right. I haven't healed yet. I just found out about the two of them less than a week ago. I know it's clouding my judgement, and I need to try to be more open minded. Just not sure how to not let the hurt affect how I feel about this situation. We are exploring counseling, hopefully that will help.

You bring up a good point. She was on a treatment program, but stopped. It would be good for her to get back on the treatment regardless
 
Hi
I really don't know much about bi-polar nor polyamory, so read into this how you wish.
I feel, from the way you have described it, that you have trust issues with your current partner. Polyamory is about transparency and respect, and maybe your partner is unable to give you that.
I feel changing your lifestyle is something very personal and integral to you, take care of your wellbeing because when you're happy with your decision it will radiate out.

Write a list of the good things and bad things about this relationship and decide if it's a viable one. Polyamory is not about replacement but coexistence, if you can't trust your partner with that perhaps this isn't a good pairing for you.

Remember you always have the choice to walk away (or stay), I think you could benefit from reading 'The Husband Swap' by Louisa Leontiades. About the guy, you can choose not to have selfish and emotionally draining people like that in your life.

Build your island!
 
Greetings Jamie,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like you have good reason to be leery about your partner, especially when she seems to be bound and determined to continue seeing the disrespectful guy, including messaging him in your company which she agreed and promised not to do. I would suggest breaking up with her, but I know she always talks you into staying (whenever you pack your things). I don't suppose a temporary breakup would be a possibility?

Anyway, the problems here are between you and her, not you and him. You aren't responsible for monitoring his behavior. That's her job.

Don't know if that helps, but those are my thoughts on the matter.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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Welcome aboard!
 
I really need help working through some things.

My fiance (a 33 year old woman) and I (a 34 year old woman) have been together for almost 3 years. In that time, there have been 3 separate instances of indiscretion on my fiance's part, all with the same guy. Each time I forgave (but did not forget) and tried to move on.

Recently, she and one of her guy friends confessed their love for each other and she stated that she would wait for him "as long as it takes". I also found out that she and him had taken their relationship physical with kissing and cuddling, though no sex. When I found out about it, I returned my engagement ring and started to pack my stuff to leave. She managed to talk me into staying saying that we will get into couples therapy and she would cut off contact with the guy.

Those two things are the only reason I stayed that night. The next day, after I had calmed down some, she told me that she hadn't cut off contact with him and that she wanted me to consider opening up our relationship so that she could date both of us.

I love her, and want her to be happy. I mean, how could I not want her to have even more love in her life?

I'm having a couple major issues though.

How can you go from emotional infidelity to having a successful poly relationship? I'm still feeling hurt and betrayed. I also feel like it is not fair for her to ask me to make this decision. I mean, at it's core, I have to chose between breaking her heart and the heart of the guy she loves or breaking my heart. Having him in her life would be a constant reminder of the hurt that I felt and am still feeling.

For now, we have agreed to take some time to explore the possiblity. She told him that they couldn't see each other until her and I worked through our issues. She had not told him that we are considering a poly relationship. Apparently he was under the impression that she was going to leave me for him. On Sundya, he texted her asking if she was going to leave me. She simply responded "No".

He got upset, and told her he was done. She texted me right after, and when she gave me approval, I messaged him. I basically told him what we were considering and begged him not to leave until we had time to figure things out.

Apparently it worked, because she asked if she could go see him on Monday, which I agreed to.

I know that I can't tell her no to this situation. I can't break her heart like that. I know that I can't because there was a perfect ending to what they have going on, and felt compelled to fight for her happiness. At the same time, I know that I'm not okay with a poly relationship. I'm trying, and even have a date later today, but it all just feels wrong to me.

Her telling him that she would wait as long as it takes keeps going through my mind. He has a lot of things to clear up in his life before he would be able to take care of her and her daughter. What happens when he gets there? Am I then no longer needed?

We made the agreement that if I decided it was not something I could handle that she would break it off right then. I have told her twice now that I'm not okay with this, but rather than messaging him, she shut down and that made me feel guilty enough to backtrack.

So I'm stuck. Everyday, I break down crying. I feel like I've been put in an impossible situation. I can't say no, I can't say yes.
 
I hear a lot of 'I want her to be happy' in your post but nothing much at all about your happiness.

OP, what do you want?

Start there.
 
Hello,
my sympathy. You are in a hard situation.
I had been on the side of the one who fell in love while in a monogamous relationship, and it wasn't easy for me either, though probably much worse for my partner. All I can say is, we would have spared us much pain if we broke up immediatelly.

Please bear in mind that all I say is an opinion.

I think the first thing to have in mind is to get as much space to process your emotions without getting into battles and blaming with your partner as possible. Consider not just couples, but individual therapy as an option. This situation is a challenge for both of you to grow fast.
Things she must sort out: Does she really want to be polyamorous, or does she want to leave for the other person? Faced with the choise of you or him, what will she do?
Things you might want to solve: Getting all your anger and hurt out of the system without damaging anyone. And questions: Do you want to stay despite her repeated breaking of agreements? Can you forgive? Do you want to stay, if she insists on not being monogamous?

If you really want to do the transition, make sure you understand the common mistakes in polyamory. This webside is a great resource
https://www.morethantwo.com/

Especially for the transition from cheating, I found an article for you and your wife, which is kind, so I think you both could read it
https://polyspace.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/poly-after-cheating/

Otherwise, there is this popular article, which is very harsh. Make sure you don't use it to stress something like "I am right, you are wrong", I don't think that helps.
http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/
It has a point that (quote)
"I feel a need to be utterly honest about several things right up front: in over 30 years of being polyamorous and knowing other poly people, I have never, not even once, personally known anyone who has been able to move from an affair in a monogamous relationship to a healthy polyamorous relationship involving the same people. I’ve known of people who did cheat on their partners in monogamous relationships who later moved on to be polyamorous, but they did not salvage the original monogamous relationship."

However, there might be an exception to every rule, and who knows, perhaps you might do it, if you both are commited to work.
 
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Sacrificing your own happiness and satisfaction in service to someone else's is a sure-fire guarantee of misery and the blues for you. If you want monogamy, don't accept or negotiate for anything else. She betrayed you and then manipulated you to get her way. That is huge.

I'm not saying that was intended to be mean-spirited on her part, but it was disrespectful and inconsiderate in the extreme. If you keep letting her walk all over you, all you will ever be is her doormat. If you are willing to move forward to poly, what you need to do is figure out what she needs to do in order to rebuild your trust in her, and then ask for it. Would it be total transparency about her activities, following through on her promises, not turning her responsibilities around on you, regularly checking in, things like that? Kowtowing to her demands and letting yourself be manipulated and gaslighted won't do it for you. If she is willing to take responsibility for her betrayal and make amends by working on being trustworthy in your eyes again, she must give it her all, or it will only be lip service. However, to me, it seems unlikely that she will make the effort - that's just my intuitive hit on the situation. It sounds like she just wants what she wants and damn anyone else who is in her way.

So, plant your feet on the ground, let go of of any wistful hopefulness, and open your eyes to look at the reality of the situation. Then ask yourself: what do you want in your heart of hearts and can you have it with her?
 
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If it didn't affect anyone else in any way, I would want to have it just be the two of us. But it doesn't just affect me. There are three people to consider in this situation, not to mention our two kids. (we each had one before we got together).

My feelings could potentially be different about the situation if she had come to me first, and explained how they were feeling and we talked about it from there. It would still have been hard, but I could have respected that more. It would have shown that although she has the feelings (which I don't blame her for) she respects us as a couple and me as a person.

Because things were hidden though, it makes me feel like I can't trust her in this situation. Even if I were to say yes, and we set some ground rules, how can I trust her to follow those, when she didn't follow what I feel are basic ground rules of a relationship anyway?

I don't know. I keep going from being a yes, let's try it, to a no way in hell will I ever be okay with it. I'm hurt and scared. I know that is clouding my judgment on this issue. The thing is, I don't see a way to heal unless he is out of the equation. Once healed, then I would feel more confident in making a decision. Due to the circumstances though, I don't think that is possible.
 
I am very sorry you are struggling. I think you could be firmer and break up.

You have a partner who does not keep her Word. You were going to break up with her for not doing so. I think if you want to be free of this drama, you have to follow through. Return the ring and end it with her. You want to be free from all this cheating on agreement stuff and free from any poly things. It isn't like polyamory is "cheat proof." People can cheat on their poly agreements too. :(

So you two are not compatible. Could free both up and say YES to each of you finding happiness with more compatible people rather than continuing to try to fly a kite that just won't fly.

So hearts get broken. They also heal. Break ups are usually not fun. But you all can handle that event. You are all adults.

I think the short term hurt of a break up and getting to move on to the healing space in the long term is "shorter stink" than choosing to participate in poly with her and this dude when you are not into it just to avoid breaking up. AND she could still cheat on her poly agreements -- again... poly is not "cheat proof." That would be picking out "stink with no end in sight."

You already know she's not good at keeping her agreements in the past. Here she is still not keeping agreements with you in the present.

When I found out about it, I returned my engagement ring and started to pack my stuff to leave. She managed to talk me into staying saying that we will get into couples therapy and she would cut off contact with the guy.
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We made the agreement that if I decided it was not something I could handle that she would break it off right then. I have told her twice now that I'm not okay with this, but rather than messaging him, she shut down and that made me feel guilty enough to backtrack.
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So she keeps changing the agreement and strings you along. Bottom line -- she hasn't broken it off. And probably won't since in your own behavior you have taught her that she can do whatever, and you will fuss at her some, but then end up staying anyway. You are ignorable. (I'm sorry I can't think of a nicer way to say that.)

I think you need to change your staying behavior and leave. But only you can decide when to step off the merry-go-round. If you choose to keep on riding it, you can't be surprised there is more of "same old song, different day" with her. :(

So I'm stuck. Everyday, I break down crying. I feel like I've been put in an impossible situation. I can't say no, I can't say yes.
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Daily crying and feeling trapped is a sign that something has to change because you are well past your limit of tolerance. You could be brave, decide you are done feeling trapped and you will start digging yourself out of this situation. Take action.

Give back the ring like you originally planned, FOLLOW THROUGH this time, and get it over with. Stop dragging the break up space out. Break ups stink already without choosing to linger in that space.

I encourage you to get it over with and move on to the healing space. That's a better place to linger at.

Galagirl
 
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I know that you are probably right. I SHOULD leave. I really should. She has put, and is continuing to put me through so much heartache. The problem with that is that I love her. I love her more than I have loved anyone else apart from my son.

On top of that, even though she acts out, I know that it comes from her insecurities. She has major abandonment and self worth issues. Part of me feels like if nothing else, I need to stay to show her that someone loves her so much, that they are willing to put up with heartbreak, that she is worth loving, that for once someone loved her enough to not let her push them away. If she were to come to me and just say she is done, fine I can accept that. She has done that in the past with previous relationships, so I know she is capable of it. Until that point though, I think what we have is worth fighting for.
 
I disagree that you have to worry about your metamour (her boyfriend). You can only manage your own relationship. You are not responsible for your partner's other partners.

You need to tell her that you don't trust her anymore. AND you need to ask yourself what she can actively do to repair the damage from her betrayal -- it was a betrayal, not some small little thing you can overlook easily! -- and then make that a term of your agreement to move forward. Some people insist on reading all texts and emails of their partner for a period of time, others will require a certain amount of time spent together with no interruptions from the other relationship, while some people make a hard and fast boundary about any lies and dishonesty of any kind. Those are just some examples, not recommendations; I can't tell you what she needs to do for you to feel you can trust her and heal from this. But it's highly likely that jumping into a poly situation NOW is not good for you.

Thing is, there need to be consequences. You were prepared to leave when she first confessed. Then she talked you into staying - that seems manipulative and insincere if she is not going to make any effort to regain your trust and go as slowly as YOU need to go in accepting a poly arrangement. If she can't follow through and make amends, why do you even bother to stay? So she can mistreat you some more? You don't need that.

And it may be that there is nothing she can do to regain your trust. Sometimes trust is broken and there is no going back and fixing it. You can forgive until the cows come home, but someone who repeatedly breaks agreements will likely not change and will only repeatedly break your heart.

And her boyfriend is her concern, not yours. Don't consider his untrustworthy cheating ass as being equally as important to you as your own needs are. YOU need to put YOU first. And do you want your kid to see you so unhappy and to teach the child that it's okay to stick around when selfish people treat you badly and take advantage of your good nature?


blueeuedjamie81 said:
She has put, and is continuing to put me through so much heartache. The problem with that is that I love her. I love her more than I have loved anyone else apart from my son.
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Not to be callous, because I know you're in pain but -- so what that you love her? As Tina Turner said, "What's love got to do with it?" We all love people who are not good for us to be in relationship with; love is not enough. There has to be respect and trust and so many other things to make a relationship healthy and worthwhile. Believe it or not, there is a lot of love out there. Stepping away from this will open you up to other possibilities and you will eventually love again.
 
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blueeuedjamie81 said:
She has major abandonment and self worth issues. Part of me feels like if nothing else, I need to stay to show her that someone loves her so much, that they are willing to put up with heartbreak, that she is worth loving, that for once someone loved her enough to not let her push them away.
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From someone who has had enormous abandonment issues, I tell you: You cannot fix this for her. You will never love her enough or show her enough to make this better. She is the only person who can make her feel that she is worth loving and change how she experiences relationships. You cannot do this.

My question for you would be: Why are you so deeply drawn to a person who breaks your heart repeatedly? That is your work.
 
blueeuedjamie81 said:
You see, she is bi-polar and when she swings into hypo-mania, the part of her brain that considers the consequences of her actions basically turns off. How could I get upset at something that she has little control over, right?
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She does have control over how she manages her illness (getting the right meds, etc.). Being bipolar does not absolve her of any responsibilities in her relationships.

BTW, both of your threads were very similar and deal with the same issue, so I merged your Intro thread with the other one here in the Poly Relationships forum, so you have replies all in one place.
 
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I completely agree with nycindie. His feelings should be none of your concern. Speaking as a mono, I completely get where your coming from. In fact, I was very much the same way when my wife came out as poly to me. Love can be a crazy thing. It can sometimes prevent us from our own happiness. And when it does, we have to ask ourselves if that's really "love", or are we simply afraid of losing what we once had.

I'm not going to delve into my story. You can ask me anything you'd like via this thread, or in private if you want, but I can tell you you, that in my experience, it took the willingness to end our 16+ year marriage if it meant that that was the only way we could BOTH be happy. Fortunately, it never came to that, and we are still working on healing & moving on. But nothing will ever get better in your situation as long as there is a lack of trust, and a wedge within your relationship.
 
blueeuedjamie81 said:
... she and him had taken their relationship physical with kissing and cuddling, though no sex. When I found out about it, I returned my engagement ring and started to pack my stuff to leave. She managed to talk me into staying saying that we will get into couples therapy and she would cut off contact with the guy.
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I was the betraying partner, like your fiance, also, like your fiance my interactions with Dude had not reached the level of "sex" - I deluded myself for a long time (months) that we were just fooling around, not breaking any real "rules". The scales fell from my eyes, the truth came out, my MrS was wounded terribly. The difference is that when he said "no contact" as being the price of him staying - I did, immediately. (I also had 19 years of good behavior built up and we weren't, strictly speaking ever really monogamous.)

(You can read the long version in my Journey blog here - the "Jackassery" section if you are interested.)


Tinwen said:
"I feel a need to be utterly honest about several things right up front: in over 30 years of being polyamorous and knowing other poly people, I have never, not even once, personally known anyone who has been able to move from an affair in a monogamous relationship to a healthy polyamorous relationship involving the same people. I’ve known of people who did cheat on their partners in monogamous relationships who later moved on to be polyamorous, but they did not salvage the original monogamous relationship."

However, there might be an exception to every rule, and who knows, perhaps you might do it, if you both are commited to work.
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Well, we might be the exception. After 3 months of "no contact" - which was, to be honest, hardest on Dude - Dude and MrS contacted each other and the rest, as they say, is history. That was 4 1/2 years ago.:rolleyes:

*********

Your situation? Now? You are being asked to make decisions while you are still raw from betrayal, you need time to heal and process. It does not seem as though your partner is taking responsibility for the consequences of her actions. Repeatedly going back on her word in the early days of reconciliation does not, in my mind, bode well for the long-term. I think that if you stay you are going to be hurt terribly. Sorry.

*********

On another note, my husband MrS has BiPolar Disorder as well and swings into hypomania at times and makes poor choices. Does this make it harder for him to stick to boundaries sometimes? yes. Understanding that it is difficult doesn't excuse poor behavior. He can ask for help. He can take his meds. He can trust that Dude and I are only trying to keep him safe when he thinks we are being over-protective. My suggestion there is to find some good resources for how to be in a relationship with a BiPolar person and what things help and which things only enable poor behavior.
 
I know that you are probably right. I SHOULD leave. I really should. She has put, and is continuing to put me through so much heartache. The problem with that is that I love her. I love her more than I have loved anyone else apart from my son.
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Could break up, and continue to love her from a safer distance so you are not getting dinged all the time. I am not saying you have to stop loving her. Just that you could love YOU by getting out of the line of fire so you stop getting dinged.

I am sad for you that you do not say you love YOU more than anyone else. At least 51% more. Do not subsume yourself to your relationships.

On top of that, even though she acts out, I know that it comes from her insecurities. She has major abandonment and self worth issues.
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What is she doing to manage her conditions and work on her issues? Or is she using them as excuses to behave badly toward people like she gets a free pass to not exercise any self control?

If she's not taking responsibility for her illness? It is not your job to pick up her slack or make excuses for her behavior.

You could accept you did not cause the bipolar or her abandonment issues. You could accept you cannot cure it, and nothing YOU do can control how she does/does not deal with her stuff. She has to learn to control her own self and take personal responsibility for herself. It's called the 3 C's. When in a patient relationship, you don't want to enable bad behavior or enable the patient blowing off being responsible for their own self care.

Part of me feels like if nothing else, I need to stay to show her that someone loves her so much, that they are willing to put up with heartbreak, that she is worth loving, that for once someone loved her enough to not let her push them away.
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To me that sounds like sunk cost fallacy.

You have already been doing that behavior. And the resulting feelings that ensue are you with daily crying, feeling trapped, etc. You do not like it. You have to change your behavior in order for new feelings to ensue.

It's also not your job to do her internal work for her. SHE has to do her stuff. You do YOUR stuff.

Until that point though, I think what we have is worth fighting for.
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Who is attacking what you have together? What are you fighting? Is she helping you in the fight to TAKE AWAY from the problems? Or is she the source of ADDING to the problems?

To me it sounds like you have internal conflict. Part of you wants to dump her. The other part of you is still trying to find a way to make it fly and convince that other part that there's something there. But take a step back. Is it a HEALTHY something?

I wonder if you haven't been enduring mental or emotional abuse. It's not easy living with a bipolar person and the outbursts. Have you considered seeking counseling for yourself? I know she promised to do couple counseling... but maybe you want to seek individual counseling so you get more support and a professional's perspective of your situation?

Galagirl
 
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Go read the article anomaly posted. It's well done. Pay particular attention to bullet point 3.

(Thanks for posting that anomaly! Well worth a read.)
 
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