Just Married, Now Probably Over

MusicalRose

MusicalRose

Member
Some backstory:

R (my husband) and I have been together for five and half years, and just got married last month.

Throughout our relationship, he has indicated that he wants children and I have consistently told him I'm not sure if I'll ever want any and that it is probably leaning toward me not wanting any. I have also told him I am fine with him seeking other partners to have children with, and encouraged him to do so. This has been a relatively long-winded and repeated discussion between the two of us for years, each time with me standing firm on my position and ultimately with him saying he'd rather be with me and not have children than end our relationship to find someone else to have children with. Despite my idea for us to stay together and he can still search for someone to have children with, he still clings to the position that he wants ME to be the mother of his children and hasn't pursued any serious relationships within our polyship. He tends more toward casual sex with others and has told me recently that he even sabotages those relationships that start to form and he isn't sure why.

The discussion has another aspect in that he has asked that if he and I do try to conceive that I will stop having (even protected) sexual relations with any other fertile males until I conceive his child. I have told him I will not agree to this. He has said that he doesn't know if he would stay with me if I had someone else's child, which makes me nervous because within a poly relationship accidents can happen even if we aren't trying to conceive (although I am exceptionally careful about birth control and have an IUD) and I don't know if I would choose to terminate a pregnancy of uncertain paternity. I don't know if I want to live with that hanging over my head.

Another thing that he has been hemming and hawing about is my desire for non-hierarchical poly or more appropriately something more akin to relationship anarchy. R wants a "one special partner" that he can hold above all other relationships and that will hold him above all other relationships and that maybe they have other things on the side but those people don't really matter like the "primary" couple does. I have told him to please seek another partner for his ideal arrangement and that I'm not willing to do that, and that if he doesn't want to be partnered with me or married to me due to that, then he needs to figure that out and tell that truth. In the end he always says he wants to stay with me and that he thinks my ideals are good ones even if he has trouble keeping up.

But these things are coming to a head now, a month after our marriage. He finally decided to come out to his very controlling family a few days after our wedding (see topic http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70648) and the stress that has been causing him caused him to trigger about a whole bunch of other things, like the fact that I decided to keep my name and the issue of kids again. Now, he is finally getting around to being honest with himself and saying maybe these things are more important than his relationship with me. He does not consider it an option to stay with me and seek this in others.

I'm trying not to be frustrated and angry. This is the kind of thing I was worried about and why I kept telling him that he needed to make the decision that was right for him for years. I told him he absolutely needed to figure this out before walking into something like a marriage with me. Now I'm starting to feel like he had hoped the marriage would "domesticate" me in some way and make me more likely to want what he wanted. I wish we hadn't gone through all the stress and money of planning, all the work, all the bullshit dealing with his family through the whole thing, if he was just going to finally wake up to what I've been telling him for years and his own inner truth not even a full month after our wedding.

I'm trying not to worry and hurt that I'm going to lose the partner that I had spent my life with, my home, and my cat. I'm trying to start doing what I have to do to find full time work so I can support myself.

All this just makes me so sad. I'm sad for R that he has been denying his truth for so long. I'm sad for me that I'm getting to suffer the consequences of that with him. I'm sad for all our friends and family that came to help support us for our wedding and gave us generous gifts. I'm hoping I have the strength to do everything I have to do with dignity.
 
I am so sorry. That just sucks.

Unfortunately, it often takes someone going through every step to find out that he really needed to take you at your word, and listen to what his psyche has been telling him from the beginning. You are probably right - he thought he would feel differently if you were married - maybe reassured - and/or that marriage would weave some magic spell that would change your point of view to match his. Now he is having to face the truth that neither of those things happened, and all the while under the scrutiny of meddling parents.
 
I'm sorry you are going through this. It sounds as though the wedding (and family drama) has opened his eyes to some things that he was in self-denial about. Namely that you and he have differing views on the model of poly that you prefer to practice (hierarchical vs. non).

It does seem to me that he was (perhaps subconsciously?) hoping that marriage would "fix everything" and you would "see the light". That sucks :( (for both of you). But, SO common... it's one of the main causes I see of marital strife - mismatched expectations on what "marriage" actually means.

As to the others - MrS and I have had some of the same conflicts over the years - thankfully NOT all at the same time!

I didn't change my name when I got married - there was a tense period before the wedding where it was an issue. He was just sort of sad that I didn't want to take his name - so one evening I agreed to change it (I hate to see him sad - and it's "only a name" right?). I woke up around 3 AM in a panic - it felt like in giving up my name was giving up my IDENTITY...I couldn't do it. (There were other practical reasons why keeping my name made sense but this was the BIG part of it for me.) I woke him up and told him so, crying and apologizing. He saw how upset I was and immediately retracted the request...

MrS was of the opinion that he would never want children, and I kind of thought that I would - but didn't have my heart set on it. We would talk about it occasionally and he changed his mind (or got to a point in his life where it didn't seem so terrifying). Five years after marriage we did start trying...and it didn't work:( So it actually feels like it was a good thing that "child-free" was an option from the start.

JaneQ

PS. cut out some personal examples - I wrote about them in my blog here and my thread-jacking was too long already.
 
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I'm sorry you're going through all this. It sounds gut wrenching. It seems at cross purposes however, to what you say you idealize, to legally marry in the first place. A non hierarchy relationship model where all relationships are given the potential for equal value would be a little out of reach given that we can only legally wed one person at a time. Once that happens, it would be a step you could not take with anyone else.
I guess I'm saying that if he always quietly wanted these things, getting married would go a long way to encouraging his want of the relationship he had with you being more committed and legitimate than any others had by you or he.
Your opening post also indicates that you knew all this prior to marrying. While you say he married hoping it would change your mind, it remains a mystery what you hoped would be gained on your relationship ideals by marrying at all.

*so tired of people expecting a name change and guilting women for not wanting to perpetuate such an ugly and unnecessary tradition as name changing when considering its origin. I don't even know why we give children a last name reflecting paternity over maternity if we don't give them a new surname entirely. :mad: *
 
I do not believe you should have even reached the marriage stage. It's not probably over, it is.

First thing was the kids issue. Kids are one of the main deal breakers of a serious relationship.
The description of being on the fence and then basically leaning childfree but then that was up in the air for so long. You kept saying no but waffled on which partner would end up the father if you went ahead anyways.
Doing that just gave him the MAYBE for kids green light. Basically stringing him along to think that you might eventually change your mind on having kids.
Someone is going to end up resenting the other with this kind of deal breaker, and in this instance it's your husband. I guarantee you he already does.

Second I wouldn't touch someone who didn't pass the litmus test of views on women with a 39&1/2 foot pole (I don't actively do this, all you really have to do is hang out around people and wait. There's enough news out there to trigger a conversation to uncover these thoughts). Imo any person who thought that women should do this or that, isn't worth the time.

I'm sorry but you should have let that train leave the station a long time ago instead of travelling with it to the final destination of a train wreck. He has showed his true colors or you are just now seeing them.


Lesson to be learned, know what cannot be compromised on for you and stick to your guns.
You're either childfree or you're not. If you're still on the fence I honestly wouldn't even start a relationship because that's just asking for things to blow up in your face again.
Change your last name for marriage, or not (any reason that isn't an expectation because you're a woman).
 
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Sounds like he's already checked out and isn't interested in working on saving your marriage. How much longer are you willing to put up With that?
 
bookbug: Thanks for the sympathy. I'm hoping that no matter what direction our relationship takes moving forward that it includes a higher level of self awareness and honesty for both of us.

JaneQSmythe: No worries on long stories. I like to be able to learn from and relate to others and hear things they are going through. R always told me I could do whatever I wanted for the name and for a while I thought I would change it to his. Throughout all of it he would double check and keep asking and making sure I knew I didn't have to. As it got closer to the wedding, I think I had a moment like you did where it just felt too weird and I realized I didn't like the idea at all. I've told him I'd be willing to change my name if we both changed our name to something new. But I am not going to just take his name.

Vinccenzo: For me, marriage is about making a commitment to a person, and I am a person who would be willing to spiritually and emotionally marry more than one person if I ever became that close to another even if the legal part was out of the question. I was very clear to R about all of this before we got married, and the legal aspect of it was to make it easier for us to integrate our lives together since we do share a home and finances, etc. I wrote my vows and worked with our officiant specifically to ensure that the ceremony reflected the commitment I was willing to make, namely that I will be there to support him in whatever decisions he makes for himself and that that is all I ask from him in return. I did not require a marriage to legitimize these bonds for myself personally, but it was something I was willing to do because R wanted a wedding where family and friends and everyone could be there to celebrate with us. I told him I was fine with this as long as I could ensure I wouldn't be making any promises I didn't mean or couldn't reasonably uphold. And yes, I know that if we do decide to have children, it is going to be a struggle with naming because I think only taking paternal names is an awful tradition as well. One of the things that I worry is increasing my aversion to the idea of kids is R's very strong attachment to the idea of passing on his family name and genetics as an end in itself. I don't want to be a baby farm for his family.

Memorandum: I have been telling R ever since we started this discussion that he should not get married to me unless he can live with the assumption that he will never have a child with me. I do not think it is stringing him along to acknowledge my own potential to change my mind as I age and as my life circumstances change. I did, however, tell him when making this decision to just assume we would never have any, and if he felt he could live with that, then we should get married and if he didn't feel he could live with that, then he needed to find another partner. I have not been unclear with him at all. Up until the marriage itself, he seemed find with the concept of me not taking his name. I'm willing to chalk it up to his fight with his family and feeling like he is losing his identity (because it seems he wraps his identity up in others), so he is trying to find ways to cling harder to me and wrap his identity up in me even more. It's not a good excuse, but I think hopefully he will stop worrying so much about it if he learns to be a little more independent. I will disagree with you on being either childfree or not. No one is obligated to know by age 25 whether they want to have a child or not for sure. This is why doctors will not let people my age permanently destroy their fertility without causing a huge stink. I know people change their minds. I also don't think having children or not is the only reason to start a relationship with someone and that I'm unfit to be in a relationship with anyone until I decide. That seems silly to me. I should be in relationships with people who fit me well and who understand my positions on things and are willing to accept them.

Inyourendo: He has been giving me some of that vibe lately, although he has been running from a lot of things, including the arguments with his parents (and we have been finding out that his father is struggling with cancer). I'm not willing to put up with it any longer. R and I had a long discussion last night about how he needs to do the work to feel fulfilled in his life and that it is not up to anyone else to do it for him, not his parents, not his partners, and certainly (heaven forbid) not his future possible children. I'm being firmer with him now on making him hold his own baggage, and while he is fighting with me about it now, saying that I'm not willing to compromise and that I should have to do some of the work too, I am pointing out to him where I HAVE been doing the work and where the things he is trying to put on to me (his insecurities, his happiness, etc.) are not my responsibility and that despite me doing a lot of difficult things for me to help him out over the years, he still hasn't done the work, so I am done holding up my end while he shirks his and I will not let him twist that to insinuate that I'm being lazy and checking out of the relationship.
 
I didn't say there was an obligation by any age to know if you're childfree or not.
Your entire assumption reasoning for that is exactly why people like me are having a hard time to get sterilized young. Sure there are people that are on the fence for a long time, but there are also plenty others that are dead sure (doesn't matter what age).

It also makes it seem like you aren't even childfree, just on the fence leaning hard on the one side. Since you brought up being decided by a certain age.

I'll pull it again, you made it seem like having kids was on the table when talking about paternity. Do you know how much of a green light that is to someone who didn't really believe you in the first place on your stance on having children? Do you even want to remain with someone who dismissed your view entirely on something that doesn't even exist? Someone who would take familial suggestions and beat you over the head with it instead of defending you?

Priority of a potential child that doesn't even exist > you.
I don't know what that looks like to anyone else, but to me that is highly disrespectful. I would be offended if I were you.

Also he's no real prize, I'm just going to say that now (borderline or is insulting. warning gladly accepted). From the outside looking in (your info, not mine), you would be dodging a huge bullet. You made it sound like he lives in the 1950s.

Pretty much beating a dead horse this round but I had to clarify it some more.
 
I apologize for generalizing to all people. I know that for myself I have a tendency to change drastically. I'm a very different person than I was even a year ago, let alone five years ago, and children are definitely off the table until at least five years in the future. So right now, I feel like I really wouldn't want kids. I don't want to spend that time and energy, especially in a nuclear household where there are only two parents. I prefer to deal with adults and build relationships with adults rather than being responsible for a person I cannot get away from until they become an adult. However, I have no idea what the future will bring me, and I've heard plenty of stories of people changing their minds after being dead sure. I know myself better than to arrive at a firm answer for myself on this at this point in my life.

So you can consider that on the fence if you like. I am undecided and leaning heavily toward not having them.

When I talked to R about it, it was in response to some thinking I had done about situations in which I'd be more likely to want them or perhaps less averse to the idea. A lot of it revolved around having much less control/certainty over paternity, and being in a household with more than just two adults. While I still generally feel like kids aren't up my alley, it doesn't seem quite as terrible an idea if I were able to have these things, and I discuss my thought processes with R because we share things. I would not want to hide these feelings I had about it from him.

I have talked to R about this before and he had come to the conclusion that I do take priority over a potential child. However, it was new information when he became aware of the idea that I might potentially have the child of someone else before him, no matter how remote. It was triggering to him, and he is saying that situation would cause him to want to discontinue the relationship because of how badly he wants a child with me, apparently even if he has a child with someone else first. I don't need to be offended. His priorities are his priorities. I do not control him or his desires and I don't need to have more importance than a child. However, I do need my independence and freedom to make choices about my life and my body.

I can see how from this topic it would appear I was dodging a bullet. This is during a bad time in our relationship, and this is one particular issue. For the most part, he does not live in the 1950s. He has been a very supportive and loving partner through a lot of difficult times in my life, and he has been present for me through lots of my own personal changes in my polyamorous path that I know he isn't comfortable with. I know he needs to start owning his own baggage and taking care of himself without leaning so much on me for validation, but he is not all bad.
 
R's dad was recently in the hospital to have his prostate removed due to cancer. From what we've been told the surgery was successful, and we knew about the cancer before the wedding and had been told that it wasn't serious and was easily operable out.

However, R's father has refused to answer any of R's calls or talk to him. Because of the stress of that, we've tabled discussions about our relationship for about a month just to get through and make sure he isn't dealing with as much stress from his father's health.

Obviously, I can't help it if his family continues not to speak to him, but hopefully he gets a little more settled into that reality in the time until we start talking about our relationship again.

In the meantime, I'm doing what I can to be prepared for the worst.
 
When it rains it pours, doesn't it?

Probably very wise to table any discussions while the stress surrounding his father's health and his parents' disapproval is still so fresh. Not a good position from which to make relationship choices. And fortunately, you are not in place that requires those decisions to be today.

Hang in there!
 
The only thing I am worried about is that R has requested pauses before and he usually uses them to take advantage of my patience and generally hasn't seemed ready to carry his own baggage once we bring everything to the table. This is probably one of the last put-offs I'm going to allow here, because it has been going on for years and there is always going to be some reason in life not to deal with his stuff. At some point he is going to have to deal with it.
 
I see your point. And you're probably right. However, at least with this situation, his request does not seem unreasonable. That is some pretty heavy shit.

While I know his dad's health issue does not seem to be life-threatening, it may be the first time R has been confronted with the possibility of his dad's mortality. It's never easy for anyone, but my observation is that it seems especially difficult for those who are at odds with their parents. It represents the possibility that time will run out before the situation can be fixed - if it ever can be fixed - and a person has to make peace with that.
 
Yes for sure. R's dad has had other cancer before that has been successfully dealt with so this isn't the first time R has had to contend with his father's mortality. R is the youngest in his family by quite a few years because they went through a number of miscarriages desperate to have a son, so his parents are relatively older to him than mine are to me. I know it is a struggle for R.

One of the things that is really concerning me is just his seeming flip on everything we agreed to before we got married. I made it clear I didn't want a hierarchical relationship, and everything he has been telling me and the ways he's been acting since we got married suggest to me that somewhere in his subconscious he was hoping that marriage would domesticate me and bring him security and make me want things the way he wanted.

I want to be there and be supportive and understanding for him in his time of struggle, but I'm struggling very hard myself at the moment and dealing with a lot of triggers because I feel as if he is trying to emotionally manipulate and control me. The harder R clings and tries to guilt me into doing what he wants, the more difficult it becomes for me to feel supportive and loving and caring. I've noticed a very worrying aversion to even being around him lately due to the intensity of his reactions and desperation to cling to me. I don't know how much more of it I can have patience with and he is not being understanding with me when I say I need to go out with friends and I need to get out of the house and I need some space away from him. I don't know how to reconcile these things.
 
The only thing I am worried about is that R has requested pauses before and he usually uses them to take advantage of my patience and generally hasn't seemed ready to carry his own baggage once we bring everything to the table.
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This pause has a time frame and you agreed to it. Don't crank up your own anxiety thinking unproductive stuff about the PAST. Be in the PRESENT moment. Give him opportunity to do different in TODAY. It won't kill you to wait a month til the check in. Month rolls by, have the check in.

If it does kill you to wait a month? Own that you got yourself here. Resolve to stop making agreements that you do not enjoy and do not serve you well. Be ok saying "No. That does not work for me. How about ____?" instead.

One month. Deal with the relationship stuff. If at that time he wants another pause and it is becoming perpetual snooze tag with him? Say "No. Does not work for me. The agreement was now, we talk now. Please honor the agreement."

You might not cover it all in one go, but you CAN start. In this waiting time maybe you want to make a bullet list of talking points so when you do have the conversation, you can check them off. If you both have to take a break to rest and process, you know where to pick up at the next appointment time. But MAKE the appointments so you know something is happening.

Point blank? You cannot work with someone who doesn't show up to the table. Disappointing, but it is what it is. Could end it. Could accept you already have no partner at the table -- just a ghost making noise but nothing tangible in terms of action. Accept. Move on. But if he is showing up to the table and keeping appointments, let go of the past. Be in the PRESENT. Sort yourselves out.

Your current agreements do not serve BOTH of you well. So... either renegotiate/update agreements or dissolve them. Move it forward, not keep it in the stuck.

You can do this. You will be ok. Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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R has kept pushing me in terms of conversation about this, not really content to let it rest I suppose. Discussions have gotten nastier, R giving me ultimatums, demanding tokens of exclusivity/primaryship that I have told him I will not give. I'm tired of the insults to what I want and being told I'm being selfish. Perhaps I am being selfish, but so is he, and why are we going to argue about whose selfishness is more important? That suggests to me incompatibility.

I was told to pack up and move out last night. Doing some packing now. Having some crying but for the most part feeling stronger than I would have guessed I would. This is disappointing, but I don't know what else to do other than to be honest with myself about what I want and stand up for that. If R and I really have such divergent ideas for what a healthy relationship looks like, then perhaps its best if it ends.
 
He really seems to be flinging about in desperation. I agree that it's really important to stay true to your needs. Sometimes needs or awareness change, and we tend to be not very forgiving when that happens with people in relationships. But in your case it sounds like you've tried to be clear, over time and repeatedly, about your needs and your limits. I can't imagine why he would pretend to be okay with it then, only now to call you selfish for continuing to have the same needs -- either his needs changed, or he was expecting yours to. In any case, he can't blame you for being honest and consistent. And you don't have to blame him for being either dishonest or inconsistent. But you certainly don't want to be legally bound to this person any longer. Get legal advice and get ending the marriage started sooner rather than later. Summary dissolution is simpler the sooner you go about it.

I'm so sorry this is how the relationship is ending. From your side of the story, you did things right, and still ended up with a mess, which is a risk we take with relationships. You definitely deserve a good cry.
 
I think both R and I share some of the responsibility in letting the relationship get this far. I had been stating what I wanted, but I hadn't requested that we actually try it on for size before we got married because R kept requesting that we wait until after the wedding. I should have been a little firmer a little sooner so that I could give R an illustration in reality instead of just in theory. I know his tendencies to put things off until directly confronted with them. We had made some progress in the past year or two, so I had hoped that we were on the right track.

We're still talking. The crux of the argument comes down to this. I would like to fluid bond with another partner at some point and I've made this clear to him. I first brought it up about two years ago with the guy I was seeing at the time. I was never ready myself before I broke up with the guy, but it was at that point that I knew it was something I would want eventually and I started talking to R about it. With my current boyfriend, A, it became more of a serious discussion, since A really hates condoms. A and I had been dating about 6 or 7 months when I finally told R that I was starting to feel comfortable with the idea. We talked more, but ultimately A violated my trust in a very big way and he and I don't have the kind of intimacy I'd really want to feel comfortable fluid bonding with someone. I've taken it off the table with A unless he and I find a way to learn to communicate with each other.

Now, I have another person, J, that I've been involved with for about six months at this point. J and I have not had sex yet. He has some confidence and performance problems that would make trying to have sex with condoms difficult. However, he has a very low overall number of lifetime sex partners and his sexual safety standards are higher than mine and R's. He has never pressured me into sex, and he is fine keeping our relationship in the oral and manual play realm, but he does not wish to have sex with condoms. As far as safety goes, J has been completely straightforward and up front with me since day one, and has been more than willing to communicate anything I need or want to know. I feel ready. This is actually the first time that I can comfortably say I feel ready and I have been thinking and talking about it for months with R.

R still feels that this is impulsive. He is very emotionally tied to the notion of fluid bonding and somewhat possessive in his relationship philosophy. Lots of enmeshment that I'm not comfortable with. This is our sticking point. He does not want me to have sex with J for the first time without condoms because R and I didn't get that for our first time. Otherwise, he said he is find with me and J fluid bonding. Like literally we just have sex once with a condom to appease him and then he is fine with a fluid bond from that point forward. If there really isn't a safety concern and this is just a form of one-upsmanship for R, I don't particularly want to agree to that. Never mind the fact that because of J's difficulty it will make our first time even more awkward than it is already going to be.

I don't want to give R ownership of my body and sexuality. If there was a safety concern, I would want to hear him out, but this isn't about that. He thinks J is trustworthy and the best match for me of anyone else I've been involved with so far.

As of talking last night, I told R that I would be willing to wait longer (up to a month) to have sex with J, but that I still want for his and my first time to be fluid bonded. I told R I am willing to do this because I know he still has a lot of stress going on with how his family has reacted to our being poly.

However, I have also told R that I need him to start working through his own baggage. I am willing to be here to support him, but I cannot and will not do it for him. Ever since we came out to his parents, he has been lost in a stupor of cannabis and alcohol, and has refused to do anything to get himself out of his funk or even reach out to anyone to talk about the pain he is experiencing with his family. He told me last night that he is going to stop numbing himself starting today, so I expect things will get worse before they get better, but if he sticks to that it is a hopeful turn of events.

I've also been more firm and blunt with R in our conversations we've been having the past few days. He has been accusing me of being unwilling to compromise, but I've been trying to tell him how it has been a compromise for me to deal with him triggering every single time I want to develop something with a new partner or take a further step. I've been identifying more and more along the lines of a relationship anarchist perspective, and I don't want enmeshment in our relationship of the kind he is requesting. I'm willing to help him work through emotional reactions and triggers, but I'm not willing to keep allowing this assumption of ownership or control over me because we are in a relationship or married.

I have told R that I respect his needs and wants if he really wants a primary and a model that feels more secure to him and has rules, but that I'm not the partner for him if that is what he wants. I can be a secondary to him while he seeks the type of primary that wants the same thing he does, or I'm willing to remove myself from his life if that is what he would prefer instead. I, however, need to have a life where my autonomy is intact. I don't make rash decisions. I try nearly to a fault to always consider everyone else's feelings when I'm making decisions, and I'm starting to recognize how unhappy that has made me and how much of a slave to everyone else's needs. Then because that is the standard, the minute I stick up for something I want I get beat down as a selfish and cold-hearted person. All I want is for people to give me honesty and autonomy. I don't understand why everyone wants to have control over the decisions I make for myself. I recognize that my decisions have an impact on the people that are close to me, but I think anyone that is close to me would agree that I don't rush into things, I'm not impulsive, and I generally err on the side of caution when it comes to something that could potentially hurt people I love.
 
So... He would be totally fine with it if the first time you and J have sex you use a condom? After that fluid bonding? And you would be willing to consider that for R if it was about R's concerns with physical health safety? But you are not willing to consider it if it is about R's concerns about emotional health safety or mental health safety? It is what it is then.

This is such a convoluted situation... I have a hard time following it. :confused:

I mean this next bit kindly, ok? I can see it is a painful situation right now. :eek:

I, however, need to have a life where my autonomy is intact
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It seems kinder for you to just break it off and move on to leading your life as you see fit than to keep dragging it out. Get on with exercising your autonomy and end it. Stop asking him to make the decisions and resenting him for telling you honestly what he wants when it does not match what you want.

I agree that you guys could have tried this on before getting married.

I also agree that you guys may not actually be compatible in relating styles so best to finish a proper break up. Rather than be doing a ping-ponging break up thing that is on then off then on and then off and then...not healthy for either. :(

Totally broken up. NOT you as secondary while he seeks primary. If that is to be that could happen at some point way in future. At this time a total clean break up seems healthier to me to give both time and space apart to heal. Not engage in a new form of "dragging it out."

It is like you are both in a grief process and in the "bargaining stage" to me. Still trying to make a thing fly that at just... Won't.:(. He bargains with condoms and first times for sex share and you bargain with secondary roles.

I think ending it for sure, clean and firm could help you both arrive at final acceptance a little better than dragging it out could. Get you both to the healing place sooner. One could not linger over the "breaking up part." To linger at the "healing part" is a better place to linger at to me.

I am so sorry. :(

Galagirl
 
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I have talked to him a bit about other things I'm willing to do to take care of the mental and emotional health aspects. I'm willing to wait another month before initiating sexual intercourse with J. I'm willing to attend counseling (which I started putting feelers out for and contacting professionals yesterday). I'm willing to hear what he might want in terms of aftercare or have discussions with him about why this is such a trigger. Much of the discussion about the trigger so far has certainly come out sounding a lot like ownership of me. Some of it is about his desire to feel valued and special, which I'm willing to try to find other ways to fulfill, but some of it definitely sounds like a sense of "If I didn't have it, no one can," and "You are my wife and I should have a say in your decisions." The feeling of ownership and objectification to being "his wife" rather than a person with my own desires has been very triggering for me.

Our talks have settled down a bit and we're dealing more with root insecurity issues without yelling. I'm not sure ultimately if we'll come to agreement on ways of relating, but it seems like the discussions are more productive. We have a very supportive and experienced local community, and he and I have been separating to talk to a few others individually about the issues and gather more thoughts.

I am prepared for a breakup if need be. I do not want to drag it out longer than is necessary, but I do feel like counseling is a good step.
 
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