Let's Talk About Sex...

[nycindie]

Since your wife uses tiredness as an excuse--I'm sure a valid one, if she's taking care of the house and kids!--you might add, "I notice you're often tired when I try to have sex with you. Is there a time of day that would be better?"

I'll add to the above:
"I notice you're often tired when I try to have sex with you. Is there anything on your To-Do List that I can take off your hands so we can spend more time together later?"

A husband doing housework is one of the greatest known aphrodisiacs!

 

[playfulgirl]

A husband doing housework is one of the greatest known aphrodisiacs!

I second that my roommate and I in grad school had a running joke about how her fiance was the sexiest man in the world. ... with a vacuum. .. doing dishes etc.

 

[Needingadvice22]

I second that my roommate and I in grad school had a running joke about how her fiance was the sexiest man in the world. ... with a vacuum. .. doing dishes etc.

In some ways I get this. Then again if I reversed the roles and said my wife was sexiest with a vacuum in her hands, I'm not sure she would appreciate that.

From a mans perspective I can at times kind of begin to feel like a submissive or worse yet a John performing a service for sex. It can lower the level of intimacy if your man is constantly feeling like he has to DO all these things in order to maybe get sex. And then knowing my wife she will get nervous at the now added expectation that since I did the dishes for her, I'll be requiring sex tonight. It's an expectation she mostly puts on herself. I certainly don't do it. But expectation is an instant mood killer for her. This is something I never understood. Expectation should be a part of foreplay. I should be able to text her about all the things I want to do to her tonight and she should be eagerly anticipating it. But instead it kills it. So I constantly have to toe the line with foreplay during the day so as to make sure she knows I expect nothing. It's something I want to dig deeper into because I think it's a big obstacle in our sex life.

On a side note, we had AMAZING sex last night. I think we finally had some breakthroughs after almost a week of arguing every night until all hours of the night.

 

[tenK]

From a mans perspective I can at times kind of begin to feel like a submissive or worse yet a John performing a service for sex. It can lower the level of intimacy if your man is constantly feeling like he has to DO all these things in order to maybe get sex.

Then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. You should want to help her with the housework because you a re responsible for creating half the mess in the first place. It's not an aphrodisiac because it's a transactional thing. It's an aphrodisiac because if all that horrible housework shit falls on you all the time, then you're going to be exhausted and irritated most of the time - too exhausted and irritated to have the headspace to think about relaxing and feel sexy.

And then knowing my wife she will get nervous at the now added expectation that since I did the dishes for her, I'll be requiring sex tonight. It's an expectation she mostly puts on herself. I certainly don't do it. But expectation is an instant mood killer for her. This is something I never understood.

Why is this hard to understand? You just said that you would feel like a John performing for sex if she expected you to do XYZ to get sex. If sex is a chore, if sex is boring, or if it's just not what you fancy after a hard day, and yet your partner is expecting it from you, then how is that *not* a total mood killer? Expectation adds pressure to anything.

Expectation should be a part of foreplay. I should be able to text her about all the things I want to do to her tonight and she should be eagerly anticipating it. But instead it kills it. So I constantly have to toe the line with foreplay during the day so as to make sure she knows I expect nothing. It's something I want to dig deeper into because I think it's a big obstacle in our sex life.

I think you are confusing expectation with anticipation. And there are far too many 'shoulds' in there for my liking. People are allowed to vary in such things. Some people like novelty and surprise. Some people like taking control themselves, not being told what will happen later. Some people like giving up their control and just experiencing sex in the moment without having an idea of where it's headed. If your associations with sex with a given person are positive, then sure, maybe a naughty text during the day can increase your hunger. But it can equally be seen as an extra to-do list that you never even asked for. First I will do X to you, then you will do Y to me, and it'll be great'. Maybe not. Maybe such messages feel like more work to her - more stuff she has to do to please you. Add into it the fact that that message might be arriving when she's up to her armpits in your stinking undies because it's wash-day, and well…I'll leave you to figure that one out!

 

[Needingadvice22]

I like the difference between expectation and anticipation and I agree that should is a poor term. I think the problem for me is that most times anticipation automatically means expectation for her. Trust me, once she gets started it is NEVER a chore for her. I have spent 17 years as a a total pleaser in the bedroom and she generally orgasms 2, 3, sometimes 5 times. I think any time I try to build anticipation, she automatically puts expectation on herself. She can be pretty hard on herself and maybe that's part of the problem? But I'm not sure what the solution is other than a ton of reassurance which can be exhausting too. Maybe y'all have some ideas?

I believe y'all were the ones who said if a guy wants sex he should do more chores. I was making the statement that it could be a bad association when spoken that way to a guy. Because believe it or not, we want sex to be about love and intimacy too. When my wife says something like, "You should do "X" for me. Maybe it will lead to sex later." My Immediate reaction is no I'm not doing that and at this point I don't want sex. I would never say to a woman, "Do this and you might get sex tonight ;-)" ok, I might, but she would likely have a good laugh about it.

So maybe the best way to say it is if you desire more sex, then you need to create intimacy. One way that makes me feel close to my man is when he does acts of service like doing some of the household chores that are typically my responsibility. In particular when he notices that I'm having a hard day or tired. That takes the sex part out of it. Now I'm doing it to show my wife that I love her, which is a much better motivator than sex.

 

[nycindie]

Don't be obstinant and insist that we are telling you to use housework as a bargaining chip to get sex. We are saying nothing of the kind. YOU said your wife complains about being too tired for sex. Helping to do what needs to be done, instead of expecting your wife to want sex after being run ragged with cleaning, parenting, grocery shopping, doing everything to maintain a home for the two of you, after coming home from work (if applicable), and/or whatever else is making her so tired, is simply something a good, caring, and considerate partner does! If you make an effort to help free up her time and lessen the everyday demands placed on her, it stands to reason that not only will she appreciate your willingness to do your part, she will have more energy and time for sex! It is quite logical!

 

[Bunnielight]

I've always been very coy about sex and physical attraction. More coy than I intend to be, it's just my natural instinct to be more reserved and modest. I'm trying to be less that way and more open sexually because I realize that's sexy too.

 

[InfinitePossibility]

I have spent 17 years as a a total pleaser in the bedroom and she generally orgasms 2, 3, sometimes 5 times.

Maybe that's part of the problem? I don't think I'd enjoy sex very much if I knew that I was expected to have somewhere between 2 and 5 orgasms every time I had sex.

People vary enormously in what they prefer and it is very much my preference that 1 orgasm is enough most of the time. In particular if I'm having sex with somebody else, I almost always prefer 1 orgasm. Sometimes if it's just me I feel like more and very rarely if I'm having sex that includes somebody else, more than 1 is okay.

But if more than 1 were an expectation every time, that would be incredibly aversive to me.

If talking about sex is a problem and your wife rightly or wrongly has the impression that she needs to have 2 - 5 orgasms every time she has sex, I can kind of see why she'd start to avoid it.

I certainly would.

IP

 

[KC43]

Needingadvice, I don't think anyone actually said "If a man wants sex, he should do chores."

If a man wants sex with a partner who complains about being tired, and he knows that partner has a lot of responsibilities, the man could take over some of the responsibilities. In theory, that would mean the partner would be less tired.

Even without the tiredness thing, if a woman sees that her partner understands and respects her for all the things she does in the course of a day, and sees that her partner is willing to sometimes take over so she can have a break or rest, that might show her that her partner truly loves and values her. Feeling loved and valued might lead to her wanting to be emotionally--and physically--closer to that partner.

It sounds like you and your wife are trapped in a cycle of "I don't want to" and "I'm a pleaser but you don't do anything for me" and "I'm tired" and using sex as currency instead of intimacy. I'm not seeing anything you're doing for *her*. You're doing it for *yourself* so you can tell her "Look at all the things I do for you, why won't you have sex with me when I want it?" Maybe that isn't the case, but that's how your posts here are coming across.

How about you do things for your wife because you love her and want to do things for her, not because you want her to fuck you so you figure if you do all these things, she'll owe you? How about, if you feel resentful about being a "pleaser" in bed, you stop being one and try to have equal interactions? How about you both stop using sex as a bargaining chip, and try using it to be closer to each other and feel good?

Bunnielight, something you said flipped a switch for me, going back to my reasons for starting this thread... Most of the partners I've had have told me things like "I want you to be assertive/aggressive in bed, that's sexy" or "It's really hot when a woman asks for or takes what she wants sexually". But then on the occasions when I've tried to do that, it's turned into "Stop demanding so much" or "Women who act that way are sluts" or "It's a turn off when you ask me for things, can't you just accept what we do"...statements made by the same men who said "Be more assertive, ask for or take what you want".

Which is probably another reason why, when S2 told me to do that, I froze...

So which is it? Is it hot and sexy when a woman is assertive sexually and verbalizes or shows through action what revs her engine in bed? Or is it a bad thing because it makes her male partner feel like less of a man when the woman takes charge (which is another thing one of my previous partners said)? Should I believe S2 and Hubby when they say they want me to be more assertive, or should I stick with the status quo because that way I won't turn them off or get negative comments from them?

 

[Needingadvice22]

Thanks for the good advice everybody. I've had fantastic sex. 2 of the last 3 nights. And I've tried to show her in small ways that it's created more intimacy. I've given her foot massages and made her baths.

One question for you ladies though. My wife likes it hard and rough as do I. In particular she loves to be fingered hard and stretched a little but not painfully so. Then sex hard and fast and deep. My question though is that this can often induce spotting or even bring on her period early. Have any of you also had this problem?

 

[GalaGirl]

You could keep your nails nice and wear gloves and use lube to minimize finger nail scratches leading to spotting. Take it easy and slow if you are going all the way out to vaginal fisting.

On the period front... it is just a period, right? Could you clarify how this is a problem?

Galagirl

 

[Needingadvice22]

You could keep your nails nice and wear gloves and use lube to minimize finger nail scratches leading to spotting. Take it easy and slow if you are going all the way out to vaginal fisting.

On the period front... it is just a period, right? Could you clarify how this is a problem?

Galagirl

It's a problem because she can tend to have 2 periods some months or have bloodier periods if induced by rough sex. She can also tend to get really in the mood for a few days in a row a month, and if the first day of that I induce her monthly friend, then it blocks me the next week. I don't believe it's from actual cuts to her vaginal wall, although I suppose that's possible. We haven't done actual fisting. I think that might be painful for her and she isn't into pain. Although if it wasn't, then it would definitely be a turn on. I wouldn't mind trying some time with an understanding that if she wasn't enjoying it we could stop. We have talked about getting a sex toy that has more width to it to see how it feels.

 

[nycindie]

Is it that you two don't like to have sex when she's menstruating???

 

[GalaGirl]

she can tend to have 2 periods some months or have bloodier periods if induced by rough sex.

That is a question for her doctor. Women don't have to be 28 days... there's some leeway there. Some people's "regular" might be 30, 31 days, etc. But if she's having 24 cycles a year, that's a lot. So best she get a check up.

It's a problem because she can tend to have 2 periods some months or have bloodier periods if induced by rough sex. She can also tend to get really in the mood for a few days in a row a month, and if the first day of that I induce her monthly friend, then it blocks me the next week.

I will take the liberty of rewriting that bit because I cannot understand it that way. I need smaller, clearer sentences. Please forgive me and correct me if I get it wrong.

It's a problem (for me) because she only tends to get really in the mood for a few days in a row a month. If I induce her monthly friend with rough sex on the first day, then (her period) blocks me the next week.

Have you tried not having rough sex the first day?

Are you comfortable having period sex? Is she?

Galagirl

 

[Needingadvice22]

It's more a problem for her not me. Although it's not as fun for me when I can't go down on her, but that's not always a given anyways. I think she just tends to feel less sexy and shuts down. It's not that we have never had period sex, but it's very rare.

 

[Magdlyn]

Maybe that's part of the problem? I don't think I'd enjoy sex very much if I knew that I was expected to have somewhere between 2 and 5 orgasms every time I had sex.

People vary enormously in what they prefer and it is very much my preference that 1 orgasm is enough most of the time. In particular if I'm having sex with somebody else, I almost always prefer 1 orgasm. Sometimes if it's just me I feel like more and very rarely if I'm having sex that includes somebody else, more than 1 is okay.

But if more than 1 were an expectation every time, that would be incredibly aversive to me.

If talking about sex is a problem and your wife rightly or wrongly has the impression that she needs to have 2 - 5 orgasms every time she has sex, I can kind of see why she'd start to avoid it.

I certainly would.

IP

A bit off topic, but:

IP, we are all different. Some women are quite capable of multiple orgasms and would not be fully satisfied with just one. Personally I can easily cum 6 or 7 times in a half hour sex session, and around 30 times in an hour and a half session, with a lover that knows what she or he is doing. (Many things make me happily cum, such as fingering, breast play, giving or receiving oral, impact play, light bondage, actual fucking, changing positions to hit different erogenous zones, etc.) I didn't see where he said his wife "needed to have" 2-5 orgasms to please him. She might love having multiple orgasms.

 

[Magdlyn]

Most of the partners I've had have told me things like "I want you to be assertive/aggressive in bed, that's sexy" or "It's really hot when a woman asks for or takes what she wants sexually". But then on the occasions when I've tried to do that, it's turned into "Stop demanding so much" or "Women who act that way are sluts" or "It's a turn off when you ask me for things, can't you just accept what we do"...statements made by the same men who said "Be more assertive, ask for or take what you want".

Which is probably another reason why, when S2 told me to do that, I froze...

So which is it? Is it hot and sexy when a woman is assertive sexually and verbalizes or shows through action what revs her engine in bed? Or is it a bad thing because it makes her male partner feel like less of a man when the woman takes charge (which is another thing one of my previous partners said)? Should I believe S2 and Hubby when they say they want me to be more assertive, or should I stick with the status quo because that way I won't turn them off or get negative comments from them?

KC, this issue can be tricky, and not just with MF couples. I have a steady female partner and have had multiple male lovers over the years... The usual advice in books about sex is that, if you want something specific sexually, discuss it, not in the heat of the moment, but beforehand, when you are both calmer. If he is touching you in a way that hurts during a session, of course, you can say, OW, or use a safeword like "yellow." But generally it can be a turn-off if you're constantly giving tips, or telling him to move his hand, faster, slower, no, not there, here, etc.

If you want to change things up during a session, of course, say it happily, lovingly in the spirit of adventure and experiment. "Baby, I want to do X to you now." Or just move into a certain position and start doing it.

If this is constantly met with, "You're a slut (and not in a good way)," or "Nobody does that!" discuss it later, calmly and lovingly, using "I statements"

"I felt hurt when you said, XYZ." "I have been wanting to try XYZ, would that interest you? I read about it in Cosmo, or a book, or saw it online, heard about it from a friend." Heh, if you read about it or saw a picture, you can prove that people DO do that!

 

[KC43]

Magdlyn, thanks. The "a woman is sexy when she's assertive/aggressive" thing has been put to me mostly in terms of me initiating sex instead of waiting for my partner to, or me putting his hand where I want it while we're doing things, or maneuvering us into the position I want, or just me undressing him to get at what I want to get at. Not me being bossy or overly verbal, but just me giving indications of what I want when I want it, as one of my previous partners said.

I haven't actually dared to try any of that with S2, given how the other men--particularly Hubby--that I've been with have responded. And it's seriously anger-inducing when the men who have TOLD me to behave that way have gotten pissed off and insulting when I've done it. Hubby is the prime example: He told me "I like it when you put my hand where you want it" and then got up and walked out of the room when I did; he told me to initiate sex with physical affection (kissing, groping, etc.) but got annoyed when I tried that, etc. Too many mixed messages and insults.

I think it is actually what S2 wants. Although he isn't sexually inexperienced, he hasn't had as *varied* experience as I have, and he was with his ex for 16 years. I'm his first partner since he and she split. So I think, based on things he's said and how he's responded to some of my questions, that he would actually be cool with me doing that kind of thing... I'm just too afraid of another negative reaction to try.

I don't bother suggesting anything or being assertive with Hubby anymore. He still insists he wants me to, but after being met with negative responses, insults, and hurtful statements every single time, I'm not about to take the risk anymore. Definition of insanity and all that. With him, I'm passive; he does stuff, I either accept it or tell him I don't like it, and that's about it. I'm not really happy with that, or I wouldn't have started this thread, but I'm not going to give him another opening to be a shithead.

About Needing's statement or implication that his wife feels pressured to have multiple orgasms... the way I read his post is that his wife usually does have multiple orgasms and enjoys it, but feels like she *has* to have them every single time because she usually does. I'm phrasing it poorly, but I understand how it feels. I usually get off several times, even from "boring" sex, but on the occasions when I can't for some reason (medication issues, being too tired, whatever), I feel guilty and like I'm letting my partner down.

Needing, if your wife is having frequent periods, or they've become heavier than in the past, she might want to be checked for fibroids. I had fibroid tumors that weren't detected until they were so out of control I was having a "period" three weeks out of every four, and I ended up needing a hysterectomy.

 

[Needingadvice22]

I think that sounds pretty common. Definitely a common problem for men too. My wife complains when I don't initiate sex and responds poorly when I do and it's not a full moon on a Tuesday while the flowers are blossoming just so. Being the one doing initiator is always the more difficult of jobs and rife with land mines. I sometimes get jealous at how easy it is for her. I always respond well to her advancements. I think I've turned her down a total of 2 times in 17 years. I don't even know what that feels like to get sex any time any place, and anyway I want it and never have to feel rejection.

I would like to think that guys would be different, and would just love every second of you initiating and telling them what you want. But at the end if the day we may have many feelings inside that get triggered too of inadequacy, not being in the mood, feeling bloated, etc. Or maybe he just got done masturbating to porn 10 minutes ago and doesn't want to tell you that.

 

[Bluebird]

That much bleeding - definitely a checkup is in order. Her hormones could be off by a lot or it could be fibroids.