Looking for Advice

[Cubby]

Hey there...

So I'm putting some words down and just looking for feedback, or advice if possible.

I've been with a person (J) for almost a year and they have another person (S) who they started seeing a month before me (when we got together I stated I'm not in to hierarchical polyamoury)....

I'd like to be in the same space as J and S without issues. Earlier on with dating, S would sometimes ignore me flat out if we were together, or would get anxious and take J outside.

I was at another mutual event that J hosted and S saw me turn up (we haven't been all together in the same space for a while) and just sighed and walked off. They returned and sat there quite openly sulking, then disappearing so J would follow them to console them. Another of S's partners was there as well (they have 6 partners, 2 of which are more serious to them). They didn't seem to interact with the other partner, but that partner was also with another partner.

I know that S has issues with jealousy and is a lot younger than me (I'm not saying I never get jealous, but S is important to me because J loves them and I want them to be happy and I am very comfortable with them seeing other people). I felt very awkward at the party and J's excuse, as it has been before when S has gotten jealous, is that "they're young and having a bad mental health day".

I work full time, S does not work and J works part time. J and I were going to go on a weekend away together and we arranged to meet at a certain time, but J ended up turning up 2 1/2 hours late. My housemate just happened to mention as I was waiting, that they were with S playing video games (she went over to drop some things off as her friend lives with J).

At first, J said they had issues with packing until I brought up that my housemate told me they were together. J said they were really anxious about going away, so invited S over in the morning. Now, I have no issues with them spending time with S, but I have very little time to spend outside of work and can see them once a week if that. It sounds awful, but I wasn't sure if they were being 100% honest with me. This isn't the first time they've been late because they were spending time with S. It wouldn't be an issue if it was a one off and if I wasn't kept waiting.

I love spending time with J. They have a big heart and they make me laugh... But I don't feel secure with them right now. I am involve with organising an event and both S and J will be there, as well as lots of other people, but I am worried it will be another case of S sulking or trying to have J's attention away from me. Luckily, I'll be busy helping to host so if it goes bad, I'll have plenty of distraction.

J has told me they'd really love for us to be all in the same space and fine together, but at the same time, I feel like J is enabling S' behaviour by running off to them or by excusing them by saying they're "young" to excuse bad behaviour. I actually feel S is being manipulative (whether they realise it or not) and also a part of me wonders if I'm doing something to create the issue.

Mostly though, I just want us all to get along. We live in a small city and I want to feel OK about going to events with both present (because I rarely have time to go out). I want J to not have to choose between where they share their emotional energy, as has been a few times before and to just enjoy spending time with two people they love.

I'm kind of at the point though, that if this is going to compromise where I can go and how I can express love to people, whether it would be better for me to step away.

I was wondering however, if other people have had similar experiences. Also, if there's anything I can do to help S feel safer around me and also, to feel less annoyed at their behaviour (it reminds me of an abusive family member from childhood, which causes me anxiety and which I know is my own baggage to deal with).

I just want people to get along and be chill and I imagine a lot of responses will be "this is between S and J to sort out" which also makes sense.

 

[pseudoclever]

You mention early on that you announced you aren’t comfortable with hierarchical poly. That might be a kind of intimidating thing to say at the outset of a relationship, especially when you’re the new person. How do J and S feel about hierarchies? It’s possible S feels threatened by you for that reason.

It’s also possible you’ve done something that set S off. You’re the only person who knows whether that’s the case, but taking some time to examine your own actions is always wise, especially if anyone has mentioned any specific action of yours. The only thing that makes me think this is J showing up late because they were nervous about a trip with you.

Mostly though, I think this is a “what you see is what you get” situation. S is young, probably not as emotionally mature, probably not as poly experienced, and even if J thinks it’s a problem, they might be reluctant to blow up their polycule over it.

I think you can either excuse yourself from this situation by ceasing to try and hang out when S is around, or else you can put your chin up and ignore what is, from your account, behavior that is petty and passive aggressive, but nothing directly harmful. The danger is you becoming insecure as a result of it...I bet if you act like it isn’t happening, S will end up being the only one harmed by it.

 

[River]

J and I were going to go on a weekend away together and we arranged to meet at a certain time, but J ended up turning up 2 1/2 hours late.

This seems like perhaps the most significant portion of what you shared. I wonder what J said about being two and a half hours late to meet up with you, as planned. Was there an apology?

It seems it is J you are in relationship with, not S. So your issues are with J, not S. Right?

 

[Cubby]

You mention early on that you announced you aren’t comfortable with hierarchical poly. That might be a kind of intimidating thing to say at the outset of a relationship, especially when you’re the new person. How do J and S feel about hierarchies? It’s possible S feels threatened by you for that reason.

J has also stated from the beginning that they're non hierarchical. I think S is in theory? I'm not sure... They don't seem comfortable talking to me and we haven't gotten past small talk.

It’s also possible you’ve done something that set S off. You’re the only person who knows whether that’s the case, but taking some time to examine your own actions is always wise, especially if anyone has mentioned any specific action of yours. The only thing that makes me think this is J showing up late because they were nervous about a trip with you.

Nobody has mentioned a specific action. It all started when I put a photo of me and J online and S unfriended me on Facebook. I did notice as was gonna invite S to an event and I checked in and J said that S is struggling a lot with jealousy right now.

You're right in maybe it was just nerves that were the issue with J. The place we were going to had people we didn't know. I just wish that the communication was there. I think because it happened a few times, but for other reasons I got annoyed.

Mostly though, I think this is a “what you see is what you get” situation. S is young, probably not as emotionally mature, probably not as poly experienced, and even if J thinks it’s a problem, they might be reluctant to blow up their polycule over it.

I think you can either excuse yourself from this situation by ceasing to try and hang out when S is around, or else you can put your chin up and ignore what is, from your account, behavior that is petty and passive aggressive, but nothing directly harmful. The danger is you becoming insecure as a result of it...I bet if you act like it isn’t happening, S will end up being the only one harmed by it.

Yeah, maybe I should just grin and bear it. It is making me insecure because it feels uncomfortable and it makes me anxious about spending time in shared spaces because of the drama. Last time, I could hear them crying and it made me wonder if I should have gone to the event at all... I also hated seeing my partner really stressed... But then I guess it's an issue between them both and I am making it about me as well.

 

[Cubby]

This seems like perhaps the most significant portion of what you shared. I wonder what J said about being two and a half hours late to meet up with you, as planned. Was there an apology?

There was, yes. It's something they say they'll work on (communication and time keeping)

It seems it is J you are in relationship with, not S. So your issues are with J, not S. Right?

Yeah, I guess they are... But I'm not sure what to or if there's anything I can do other than maybe just deal with it and ignore it, whilst trying to be accountable for things I might have done.

But I can't think of anything I can ask of J in that situation. I might just have to let things take their course as that's an issue between S and J and that they have to work out.

Part of why I'm here for advice is to try and unpick this kind of stuff.

 

[Cubby]

Also, people please feel free to roast me on this if I'm being unreasonable or selfish...

I'm very open to criticism.

I ultimately want things to be OK and to share spaces and not have this specific issue (I know J hangs out with S and their partners sometimes, but then maybe that just works for them)... But then maybe it's unfair to want this and I should accept the tension will be there because maybe that doesn't work for S like it does for me.



I can't force anyone to do anything so maybe I should just accept it.

 

[Cubby]

Can't see my response and I think I misread... So apologies...

You mention early on that you announced you aren’t comfortable with hierarchical poly. That might be a kind of intimidating thing to say at the outset of a relationship, especially when you’re the new person. How do J and S feel about hierarchies? It’s possible S feels threatened by you for that reason.

J is against hierarchies in relationships, or so they say. I'm not sure about S. I think S is newer to polyamoury than J or I. They have several other partners, but I'm not sure of how they do things because we don't know each other well.

It’s also possible you’ve done something that set S off. You’re the only person who knows whether that’s the case, but taking some time to examine your own actions is always wise, especially if anyone has mentioned any specific action of yours. The only thing that makes me think this is J showing up late because they were nervous about a trip with you.

I'd love for it to be communicated if I do something to upset J or S. S initially unfriended me on Facebook because I posted a picture of me and J together. They sent me a friend request again a few months later. I did check in with J as I thought I might have upset S and J said it was because S was struggling with jealousy and I hadn't done anything wrong.

The event we were going to had lots of people J didn't know, hence the nerves. That was what was communicated to me by them. We usually have a very loving and gentle relationship... So I'm still trying to figure out why the shared space bothers me. Maybe I'm worried about people seeing me as a bad person for hurting S, or about being vetoed by S and a part of me is in denial about that.

Mostly though, I think this is a “what you see is what you get” situation. S is young, probably not as emotionally mature, probably not as poly experienced, and even if J thinks it’s a problem, they might be reluctant to blow up their polycule over it.

I think you can either excuse yourself from this situation by ceasing to try and hang out when S is around, or else you can put your chin up and ignore what is, from your account, behavior that is petty and passive aggressive, but nothing directly harmful. The danger is you becoming insecure as a result of it...I bet if you act like it isn’t happening, S will end up being the only one harmed by it.

I think you're right.

 

[GalaGirl]

Part of why I'm here for advice is to try and unpick this kind of stuff.

I'm sorry you struggle. Here are my impressions. I don't know if it helps you any.

I'd like to be in the same space as J and S without issues.

You and J might want to spend time in trio and all get along, but you are not the only stakeholders in that experience. If she doesn't also consent and want to be in the same space as a trio all getting along? Then it isn't happening. So could stop trying to make it happen. Let the want go and change the expectation.

Skip being in the same spaces for now until S solves whatever "young and mental health" things they have going on.

J and I were going to go on a weekend away together and we arranged to meet at a certain time, but J ended up turning up 2 1/2 hours late.

At first, J said they had issues with packing until I brought up that my housemate told me they were together.

Tell J you prefer them to be on time and not to lie or make up stories to you. If J has poor time management to the point where it bugs you and it isn't being solved? Stop seeing J.

J has told me they'd really love for us to be all in the same space and fine together, but at the same time, I feel like J is enabling S' behaviour by running off to them or by excusing them by saying they're "young" to excuse bad behaviour.

When the three are in shared space and it is J's habit to enable and make excuses for S poor behavior and you are tired of hearing it?

• Could stop being in shared space and then you don't have to see or hear it.
• Could ask J to stop talking about their S problems to you
• Could stop seeing J and you don't have to deal with it at all any more.

Could not agree to hang out as a trio. Because J's behaviors do not lead to all getting along. S might act out, but your problem is with (J's behavior in response to S behavior.) You do not like how J responds to S acting out.

How old does S have to get before J starts holding S accountable?

I actually feel S is being manipulative (whether they realise it or not) and also a part of me wonders if I'm doing something to create the issue.

S has other partners. If J having other partners (you) causes S to start making a scene to hog J's attention? And J cannot see this is what is happening? Or J sees it and makes excuse for S poor behavior?

Then you can stop hanging out in trio so it doesn't affect you any more. Or stop dating J entirely so it doesn't affect you any more.

Keep it easier on YOU. Remove yourself from the weird.

Yeah, I guess they are... But I'm not sure what to or if there's anything I can do other than maybe just deal with it and ignore it, whilst trying to be accountable for things I might have done.

Form the sound of it, you haven't done anything. What you could do is start doing SOMETHING rather than letting it all slide.

Your problems are not with S. You do not pick out S to date. J does.

Your problems are with J, who sounds like a sloppy hinge. Who picks J out to date? YOU.

But I can't think of anything I can ask of J in that situation. I might just have to let things take their course as that's an issue between S and J and that they have to work out.

It IS their issue. They could keep it over there on their side of the V. When they bring it over to your side of the V where their behaviors affect YOU? Now it becomes your business.

You can ask J to be punctual and not be late for dates with you because he's doing whatever with S. J could manage J's time better. Do "before care" the day before. Or set an alarm.

You can ask J to stop "telling stories" about packing taking so long and tell the truth. He was trying to do "before care" with S, but it ran over because J mismanaged their time.

You can tell J "no, thank you" politely when J invites you to things they host in their home if S is also going to be around.

(Because you don't feel like watching the "S Show" go down again like it usually does. You don't have to tell that part to J. You just have to decline the invite and look out for YOUR well being more rather than "doing nothing" or "putting up with it." Could choose to just skip it.)

Mostly though, I just want us all to get along.

At public community events where you all turn up, you can do "basic polite" toward S as you would any grocery store clerk, mail person, or bank teller.
Basic polite is enough. That IS getting along. Nobody says "getting along" has to mean "all three being best friends."

It is not your job to do S's emotional management for them, and you don't have to be tight with them.

We live in a small city and I want to feel OK about going to events with both present (because I rarely have time to go out).

So go to public events even if all are present. If J is taking either of you out as their date to that particular public event, make an agreement to be clear who the date person is and give them space at the event as a date.

If it is (J+ her) as the date to the public event, say hello quickly, but don't hang around being a third wheel. Excuse yourself. "Just wanted to say hi. I don't want to intrude on your date." Then make yourself scarce and enjoy the event on your own.

If it is supposed to be (J+you) and she makes a scene or inserts herself like a third wheel? J doesn't do anything about it? You can ask her if she would mind giving (you and J) some space since this time it is (you + J) turn as the date. Rather than do nothing, start speaking up for yourself more.

If she fusses and he enables or makes excuse? Neither one respects the agreement? Say good night, go home, and do NOT accept any more dates with J to public events because J doesn't help maintain good boundaries. You then know what to expect out of J -- wishy washy stuff.

YOU can maintain your own good boundaries.

I want J to not have to choose between where they share their emotional energy as has been a few times before

You could let J worry about their emotional energy management.

Esp when going to events and it is clear who "the date for this one is ____." then you all could expect J's focus of energy to be the date person at that event.

to just enjoy spending time with two people they love.

J's enjoyment is J's job.

If you are respectful when it is S's turn to be J's date? Where is problem? What are you doing that is horrible that takes away from J's enjoyment?

Galagirl

 

[Cubby]

Hi, thanks for the response.

You and J might want to spend time in trio and all get along, but you are not the only stakeholders in that experience. If she doesn't also consent and want to be in the same space as a trio all getting along? Then it isn't happening. So could stop trying to make it happen. Let the want go and change the expectation.

Skip being in the same spaces for now until S solves whatever "young and mental health" things they have going on.

So I haven't done anything I'm aware of to pressure this person, I've just suggested it and said to my partner it'd be nice. I'm not sure about our partner though and what conversations have been had. I did offer to not come to the event that my partner organised and I checked in about boundaries and stuff (being aware of the issues)... My partner said it would be OK.

A big part of it is the inevitability that we'll likely all be in the same space together. The community we're in is small and there aren't a lot of events. I think for me, maybe I need to balance whether or not I'm going to an event and if both parties will be there, then whether it's more important to be there and deal with what's happening, or whether I might want to give it a miss.

Tell J you prefer them to be on time and not to lie or make up stories to you. If J has poor time management to the point where it bugs you and it isn't being solved? Stop seeing J.

This is something I've been thinking. If it keeps on happening, then I will have to stop seeing them.

When the three are in shared space and it is J's habit to enable and make excuses for S poor behavior and you are tired of hearing it?

• Could stop being in shared space and then you don't have to see or hear it.
• Could ask J to stop talking about their S problems to you
• Could stop seeing J and you don't have to deal with it at all any more.

Could not agree to hang out as a trio. Because J's behaviors do not lead to all getting along. S might act out, but your problem is with (J's behavior in response to S behavior.) You do not like how J responds to S acting out.

Yeah, it does bother me as I don't get to spend time with J as their attention is elsewhere. However, I guess this is J's choice.

How old does S have to get before J starts holding S accountable?

I don't know and wonder if this is just an excuse, or issue they have between themselves rather than purely an age and mental health thing.

Some of the things I have learnt from the responses people have been kind enough to offer is that actually, a lot of these issues are likely with J and S' relationship and not mine and I think I need to recognise this and either deal with it when we share spaces, or not deal with it and rethink boundaries (also check in that I am not overstepping or hurting anyone and be accountable).

S has other partners. If J having other partners (you) causes S to start making a scene to hog J's attention? And J cannot see this is what is happening? Or J sees it and makes excuse for S poor behavior?

I'm really not sure what is going through J's head and if they see things the way I do. But I guess they have a choice as to how they react to the situation.

It IS their issue. They could keep it over there on their side of the V. When they bring it over to your side of the V where their behaviors affect YOU? Now it becomes your business.

You can ask J to be punctual and not be late for dates with you because he's doing whatever with S. J could manage J's time better. Do "before care" the day before. Or set an alarm.

You can ask J to stop "telling stories" about packing taking so long and tell the truth. He was trying to do "before care" with S, but it ran over because J mismanaged their time.

You can tell J "no, thank you" politely when J invites you to things they host in their home if S is also going to be around.

(Because you don't feel like watching the "S Show" go down again like it usually does. You don't have to tell that part to J. You just have to decline the invite and look out for YOUR well being more rather than "doing nothing" or "putting up with it." Could choose to just skip it.)

Thankyou.

So go to public events even if all are present. If J is taking either of you out as their date to that particular public event, make an agreement to be clear who the date person is and give them space at the event as a date.

If it is (J+ her) as the date to the public event, say hello quickly, but don't hang around being a third wheel. Excuse yourself. "Just wanted to say hi. I don't want to intrude on your date." Then make yourself scarce and enjoy the event on your own.

If it is supposed to be (J+you) and she makes a scene or inserts herself like a third wheel? J doesn't do anything about it? You can ask her if she would mind giving (you and J) some space since this time it is (you + J) turn as the date. Rather than do nothing, start speaking up for yourself more.

If she fusses and he enables or makes excuse? Neither one respects the agreement? Say good night, go home, and do NOT accept any more dates with J to public events because J doesn't help maintain good boundaries. You then know what to expect out of J -- wishy washy stuff.

YOU can maintain your own good boundaries.

This is what we try to do at present, though it hasn't happened often that we'd be at events in that context. The issue is more events and spaces which aren't explicitly with a date element.

If you are respectful when it is S's turn to be J's date? Where is problem? What are you doing that is horrible that takes away from J's enjoyment?

Galagirl

You're right... I'm as aware as I can be about boundaries. I don't THINK I'm doing anything wrong, though maybe I should leave the suggestions of us mutually being in spaces together as whilst S may agree, their reaction in the past seems to have signified they struggle and maybe they feel pressured. Maybe it isn't right for them.

Also, I shouldn't try not to let these things affect me because they are issues between S and J and beyond my control. I can't choose how S reacts, but I can choose whether I want to be in that space and if I want to remove myself.

I'm going to give things a few weeks to see how they pan out.

Thank you for your help.

 

[breathemusic]

This is what we try to do at present, though it hasn't happened often that we'd be at events in that context. The issue is more events and spaces which aren't explicitly with a date element.

In regards to situations where you're all out at an event and none of you is specifically on a date, then it's still worth having a discussion with J ahead of time and let him know what your expectations are. "Hey, I know this isn't a date for us, but since I don't get to see you all that often, I'd still love to make sure that we're able to spend at least some of that time interacting. Would you be ok making sure that happens? Or would you rather just be able to do your own thing?" Largely, I think much of this boils down to needing to communicate expectations and boundaries and make sure that everyone is on the same page.

 

[GalaGirl]

This is what we try to do at present, though it hasn't happened often that we'd be at events in that context. The issue is more events and spaces which aren't explicitly with a date element.

Could make it more explicit then. Or skip those "unclear" ones in the interest of keeping YOUR stress lower.

You're right... I'm as aware as I can be about boundaries. I don't THINK I'm doing anything wrong,

You don't sound like you are. If anything you seem to OVERWORRY that you are and sometimes "shrinking" yourself and being timid as a result. Or overextending yourself by issuing invitations to hang out in trio when past experiences tell you those aren't likely to go well.

It is making me insecure because it feels uncomfortable and it makes me anxious about spending time in shared spaces because of the drama.

See? Past experiences stressed you out. Do not sign up for more of those. Instead of looking out so much for the other people, let each person speak for their own self and look out for their own self. Not in a selfish way, but in a self care way. You could stop putting yourself in trio situations that lead to you feeling uncomfortable.

though maybe I should leave the suggestions of us mutually being in spaces together as whilst S may agree, their reaction in the past seems to have signified they struggle and maybe they feel pressured. Maybe it isn't right for them.

Yes. Could stop suggesting hanging out in trio. Just let it go because when she shows up and acts out, it becomes stressful for you.

Also, I shouldn't try not to let these things affect me because they are issues between S and J and beyond my control. I can't choose how S reacts, but I can choose whether I want to be in that space and if I want to remove myself.

Exactly. You cannot control how S behaves. You cannot control how J behaves.

You CAN control what spaces you go to.

You CAN control who you pick out to date. Maybe you decide to stop picking out J if behaviors do not change.

I'm going to give things a few weeks to see how they pan out.

I hope things sort out for you so you can feel more at ease.

Thank you for your help.

Most welcome.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Cubby,

It sounds like you want kitchen table poly, whereas S wants parallel poly. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, you just want something that clashes with what S wants. The thing to notice here is how J is handling the situation. Is J giving you a fair amount of time? Is J giving you the amount of time that you need? If not, tell him what you need (and be specific). As for public events that all three of you will go to, you're bound to run into S, so be polite and friendly toward S and leave it at that. If S is not polite and friendly toward you, that is S's problem. S's jealousy problem. You know you're doing nothing wrong.

It is hard when you just want everyone to get along, but S doesn't want that. Instead, S wants to get all dramatic about it. This puts you in a frustrating position. I'm sorry that's happening. Hang in there, and keep on posting. We'll try to give updated advice.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.