Looking for advice

jeff1211

New member
So I will try to be both comprehensive and brief. I am looking for advice on a situation I am in. I am not sure if this is unique but I'm also not sure how common it is.

So my wife and I have been together 7 years and married for almost 2 years (in September). Previously we swung with other couples but as of january 2018 we decided to try polyamory with a woman that she had met and introduced us both to. However, things did not end up working out with her as she moved and we moved on. So nothing much happens until earlier this year. We end up talking with another woman (G) who had just got out of a bad breakup about 6 months prior (so about a year from this posting probably) who was just starting to explore poly. My wife was apprehensive about it as G was initially messaging me but was unsure of G's interest in my wife. I will caveat that at times I am unsure if my wife is mono or poly despite her protest that she is not mono. So we have been going on shared date with G every month (sometimes twice) for every month up to the current.

And this is where the situation arises. There have been some ups and downs with my wife and her feelings regarding G but we talked extensively and made sure everyone was on the same page. Two weeks ago, on a monday, they went on their first solo date. Both of them had wanted it and both felt it could strengthen their connection. Immediately afterwards both thought it a good idea for me and G to have a solo date as well so there was less pressure. No kissing had been had up until this point and all three of us felt it might be easier for G to get and give this affection on solo dates. We end up kissing on this date (within the comfortability of my wife) and my wife still has a meltdown. She was anxious the entire day of the date and felt very much like her feelings weren't taken into consideration. The three of us are able to hash it out and are seemingly better by friday (my solo date happened to be wednesday immediately after their date). There are plans of G coming over on sunday and our group chat gets hot and heavy with ideas as both women are getting really in the mood though we all discuss, there are no expectations. While G is over our house I am in the kitchen and come into the living room to finding them kissing. I give them their space and then join in and one thing leads to another we are heading upstairs. Afterwards G goes to sleep in the guest bedroom and then leaves the subsequent morning.

At this time my wife feels "violated" that some other woman was naked in our bed despite being the one to lead everyone upstairs the night before and having made no protest to it being done. She feels so strongly that she "wants to burn the mattress". I will spare the specific details of the words she used on sunday and wednesday during her meltdowns. Needless to say I tried to rationalize with her but to no avail. This became so overwhelming that another person my wife had talked to about everything sent screenshots of what she said to me and the other woman involved.

Long story short I don't know where my wife and I stand. G was interested in both of us and still remains interested in a relationship with us or me depending on the outcome. At this time, as appropriate she is backing off though. I have since come to realize a number of other red flags that I have ignored over the years with my wife that are a cause of concern. So at this time divorce has been an issue on the table but I still feel like things can be salvageable. I feel as though we are two very different people with very different life pursuits and the best thing would be to let her go as she has seemed to be suffering from my somewhat recent discovery of my own polyamory. But I am not one to give up but I do feel there is some distance that needs to be placed. I know that sometimes normal relationships (non-married) may go through ebbs and flows and I was wondering if it is possible to lay some boundaries with my wife so as to still live together but allow me the space I need to assess whether she is able to work on her issues. I still feel it is something that can be worked on but am scared without boundaries that these same patterns will come up (cycles of being okay and then huge meltdowns regarding me being poly). I also don't want to lose what progress was made with G as well in regards to that relationship. Is there a way that I can set non-poly boundaries for my wife and I's relationship (kind of like a separation but with goals to see if we are able to work things out sort of and check in every once in a while and see if things can get better)?

Feel free to ask me more questions or for more information. I realize this may seem all a bit confusing.
 
This became so overwhelming that another person my wife had talked to about everything sent screenshots of what she said to me and the other woman involved.

This is just cruel. Before I spotted this sentence, I really hoped that "burning the mattress" had never been mentioned to G, but I guess that horse has bolted if I'm understanding this aright. Honestly, I'm more concerned about how your wife's...changes of heart... are affecting this poor woman.

But as for you and your wife, it sounds like this is waaaaay bigger than poly. Are you in couple's therapy? If you're talking trial separation with goals, then perhaps you need a therapist who can help you both see progress by the other towards such goals, or towards a more amicable divorce where the lawyers won't be the biggest winners.
 
Yes, I was very concerned for Gs feelings and have talked with her extensively about things. And you are right this isn’t a poly thing. We all thought (me and G at least) we were making progress towards a healthy triad. However it seems everyone ignored a lot of red flags. G has since said, somehow, she is still okay with trying things still whether together or just me depending on what happens of course. K has since realized a lot of things including her wording and feelings to be extremely irrational at times and has apologized to both and is attempting to work through everything.

Prior to work yesterday I had told her there were a lot of things she needed to work on not to do with poly and it left me scared that she would not work on them which I feel has happened in the past and in this case I could not be with her. When I got home from work she had written a note to me again apologizing and a list of things she thought about that she needed to work on personally. I found the list agreeable but still had fear that we’d fall back into similar patterns and same old cycles and G again would be at the forefront of this.

Later last night (after this initial post) K comes to me to explain her rules and restrictions with poly related stuff were unfair from the beginning and she has a lot of personal stuff to work on herself. She recognized needing to take responsibility for her actions and behaviors and how unfairly she treated G in instances that made her feel restricted in the relationship she wanted to develop with me and even K. The three of us talked extensively about things and, amazingly G is somehow still okay, and “depending on how things go another deep conversation of boundaries/restrictions/limitations should be discussed”.

We are in couples therapy and have talked about a lot of issues - Ks miscarriage, her difficulties getting pregnant and poly (counselor is knowledgeable about poly). I guess after last night I am trying to see if a solution can be found in which there is some separation with goals like you said like my boundaries to somehow ensure that these personal issues are actively being worked on and addressed for everyone’s wellbeing. And I will be talking with the counselor individually about how to set that up if it’s possible or if the only option is divorce.
 
I also agree that therapy is an absolute must if your wife isn't already seeing someone. For someone to be so ok with something that they are the one initiating it, only to then later be completely revolted by it tells me that they have some deeper issues that they are ignoring. Is she trying to force herself to be non-monogamous just to avoid the risk of losing you? Is it something else? I also agree that it's terribly cruel to this other woman to then be told these things after the fact. She's already in a really scary position of coming into a newly opening relationship where she likely feels secondary to your marriage and that if things go south, she's the one likely to lose 2 partners (though I do see that it sound like you're not the type of person to just say "my spouse gets priority over you no matter what" so good for you in working on setting boundaries that respect the other person and yourself).

It sounds like you have more going on here than just the polyamory bit, so without more information, it's hard for me to to really give a good opinion on what sort of boundaries might be best to set, but 1 thing I can certainly suggest is that your wife needs to do the work of figuring out for herself what she REALLY is comfortable with and what she isn't and then set her own boundaries as well.
 
I think at the time she was trying to force herself to be that way for fear of losing me. Yes I am not the type of person to put hierarchy on relationships though I do recognize that we are married and have been together longer it does not make the relationship with G any less important to me. There is definitely more going on that needs to be worked on personally with her. We have a couples counselor that we are seeing and I am seeing alone tomorrow (K is aware). And it may be good for K to see her separately at some point to. She was able to recognize by herself the toxic behavior and thoughts she’s been having and how damaging that is for both of us and especially for G. She wrote down some personal things that realizes she needs to work on and screenshot it so I have the list, she has a pic and she sent a copy to G for accountability in these areas. She spoke to me about more acceptable and less restrictive boundaries (no sex in our bed, protection, etc.) which are more “normal” poly boundaries and recognizes that her previous attempts were too restrictive for anyone to feel truly comfortable.

At this point I think I need to set my own boundaries for the relationship if it is to continue as in goals that need to be worked on before feeling comfortable or like hard rules. I am just not sure how to word or make those concrete (which is why I am going to the counselor alone to figure this out). I guess my advice at this point is - is this something that is good to continue and how can I best put these boundaries/comfortabilities into concreteness to, hopefully, preserve both relationships? Thanks for all the advice thus far.
 
You have to divorce, at least metaphorically. What I mean is this couple centric behavior will not work well for poly, especially a triad.

I think your problems are very common amongst couples trying to transition from swinging to poly. Swingers sometimes don't realize how much effort they put into preserving their couple status. They think because they are slightly non-monogamous they are ready for poly. Then they realize they must give up control of their partner.

Why are the two of you set on a triad? You are better off dating your own partners. Or stepping back from poly for the time being. It's a shame you dragged another person into this way before you were ready.
 
I thought I responded to the previous comment but will again. There is definitely more going on here than just the poly stuff. And K has a lot of issues that she is working on personally. I went into this understanding the differences in poly and swinging and actively trying to avoid the pitfalls of being couple-centric. I think she was very concerned about being left out which is why she wanted togetherness when I thought separately was better. K has since recognized a lot of the personal issues she has and is actively set on working on them. She recognizes a lot of her toxic behavior and has spoken to myself and G about them. Somehow G is still will to try things, amazingly. My question is now I’m trying to preserve both relationships or if divorce is the only option at this point. Like making concrete boundaries that K needs to work on or things can’t progress further in our relationship. I’m sorry if this all seems a little rushed I had written out something and it never posted for some reason.
 
I am sorry you are struggling.

FWIW? This sounds like too many things too fast for me.

K, while initially willing, is not actually able to poly well. She's got baggage to solve.

You? You are talking about separation and divorce. Or maybe reconciling. Unclear. I would suggest taking a poly break and you focus on solving your old stuff with the marriage before taking on any new stuff with poly.

G? She's already ended a prior relationship a year before you and K. Might be easiest on her not to invest here since you guys aren't totally ABLE right now. G could move on and poly date somewhere else. She sounds willing to keep trying but it might be kinder to tell her you want to but are not actually able to right now. And can you look her up when you are free? Cuz right now? It sounds like mess.

I'm not trying to be mean here. Just saying... don't put cart before horse or RUSH stuff. :(

A triad is one of the hardest models. When new to poly? I think it would be better poly dating separate people rather than you and K both trying to date the same person.

I think she was very concerned about being left out which is why she wanted togetherness when I thought separately was better.

Left out of WHAT? How much detangling work did you and K do before trying to triad date G?

https://medium.com/@PolyamorySchool/the-most-skipped-step-when-opening-a-relationship-f1f67abbbd49

Like making concrete boundaries that K needs to work on or things can’t progress further in our relationship.

What behavior do you want K to change? Does it require YOU having stronger personal boundaries?

Your personal boundaries are things YOU make and uphold.

Like if I loan you my lawn mower. You break it. And don't apologize, and offer to repair or replace? Then you come looking to borrow my weed eater?

If I have a personal boundary of "I do not lend things to careless people. I tell them no".... YOU don't have to obey that. I do.

If you come asking, it is ME who has to tell you "No. I am not willing to loan you more things until you apologize and replace lawn mower first. "

Whatever it is K is doing that you do not like? YOU are the one who has to have a boundary about it.

Maybe it's looking in your phone. Well, you change the password and when she wants to get in your phone you say "No. I'm not doing anything weird on my phone. I do need to have things that are just mine. I will not be sharing password with you. I do not go in your phone. You do not go in mine. I don't use your toothbrush. You do not use mine."

YKWIM? Your personal boundaries YOU have to establish and obey.

Is there a way that I can set non-poly boundaries for my wife and I's relationship (kind of like a separation but with goals to see if we are able to work things out sort of and check in every once in a while and see if things can get better)?

If you mean agreements you both will agree to keep -- what agreements do you want to propose to K?

I suggest you list them out and then run them by your couple therapist to check they are realistic and reasonable expectations.

I guess my advice at this point is - is this something that is good to continue and how can I best put these boundaries/comfortabilities into concreteness to, hopefully, preserve both relationships? Thanks for all the advice thus far.

I think all healthy relationships know each other's personal boundaries.

I'm not sure what you mean about "concreteness." Like you need a list of example ones? Are you having trouble articulating yours?

https://www.aconsciousrethink.com/6573/boundaries-in-relationships/

https://www.loveisrespect.org/healthy-relationships/setting-boundaries/

https://www.bustle.com/articles/133438-9-boundaries-you-need-to-set-up-in-your-relationship

Could google others.

Galagirl
 
Last edited:
Hello jeff1211,

Sorry to hear that you're going through a rough patch with K. I can't tell for sure if divorce is your only option; it may be possible to establish some non-poly boundaries, sort of like a separation, but with goals to see if things can work out, and regular check-ins. Talk to your counselor about what kind of boundaries to set, what kind of progress to look for, and involve your counselor in the checking-in process. How often do you see your counselor? hopefully once a month at least, but once a week would be ideal.

As for G, I would only see her at her place, without K, and I would not bring G to your house at least until K has made some progress. Make sure K is okay with you dating G, but don't share with K the details of these dates. If K wants to date G separately that is something to consider, but first K should make some progress on her personal issues. I don't mean to penalize K, I am just trying to guess at what K is ready for and when. It does sound like K wants to be okay with poly, she just needs to work on some of her own issues first.

Hopefully you won't have to divorce. Try some less extreme measures before you go down that road, and keep your counselor in the loop on what you are trying, and what progress you are making. Good luck and I hope we on this forum can help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Back
Top