Married hubby & Wife, she has BF, flirt, sex, then Poly?

[Tinwen]

Pursue this if you wish to pursue this. See where it goes.

But, unless you are ready for me to be out of your life, treat me with the respect that I deserve, regardless. If you are ready to move on, let me go with some dignity. Now. If you still have an investment in our marriage and do not feel ready to put the kaibosh on it, then don't be a jerk.

+1 on the whole post of Spork.
It might be your wife wants to leave, but it might be NRE.
To me personally NRE leads to feeling of "oh crap need to dive into this now, it's just so extatic, don't controll me, your killing the new relationship". NRE leads us to believe the feeling "this man is so unique, he the only one to make me truly happy", and forget that it is only true for those few weeks or months, while we rest in that unnutural state.

 

[Perrey]

From what the OP is describing, it's not poly sadly.

Speaking from experience, if she, the wife, wants to leave. Allow her too. You can't dissuade her. She may try to keep you around but you have to ask yourself if you can live in second place.

To me, poly isn't about being in second or third place. My definition of poly is all equal. Yet, your interpretation is different. Thus you have to decide on how you want to proceed.

Poly is about loving everyone equality, as Spork wrote.

I am sorry you are going through this. I hope you have a support system. I am glad you posted here.

So many times, at least from what I read and people I've known, when poly or poly-esque relationships end, its suppose to end in a friendship. And that can happen but something you can to go through the bad parts and not know if that is the outcome.

Take care of you. That's the important part.

 

[Spork]

+1 on the whole post of Spork.
It might be your wife wants to leave, but it might be NRE.
To me personally NRE leads to feeling of "oh crap need to dive into this now, it's just so extatic, don't controll me, your killing the new relationship". NRE leads us to believe the feeling "this man is so unique, he the only one to make me truly happy", and forget that it is only true for those few weeks or months, while we rest in that unnutural state.

I think that's really the crux of it where the new boyfriend is concerned. If it has been a crap-ton of years since she has felt NRE with anybody, it would be really easy to be confused by it into thinking "OMG this guy is THE ONE." It's confusing even if you DO know what it is and try to be realistic about it. If he's coming off a major breakup, he's probably in the same boat.

It's that thing where you are just sure you're wildly in love with somebody, but in reality you don't KNOW them yet. It is my understanding and experience that it doesn't last long (hence "new relationship energy") and sooner or later, it burns down...at that point reality takes over. That's when you realize that when your Mom said that guy was a bad choice, she was probably right. That's when you ask yourself "what the heck was I thinking of?" Or, if you really have managed to choose someone you have some real compatibility with, then your love for them can deepen and mellow and be good. But initially, we're blind to our NRE-subject's flaws that are glaringly obvious to others.

I guess the point is...I'd suggest that OP not think less of the wife for her actions with regard to the new boyfriend, because NRE can make fools of us all. Just demand better in the interaction between you and her. That really IS your monkeys and your circus. And make sure you're treating her appropriately as well.

 

[Travelingcouple]

Ok, pastor is on it.

Now, if that fails I force her to pack bags and leave, etc. no contact until she dumps this guy.

Realistically she can return daytime when I'm not at home. Should I change locks?

 

[FallenAngelina]

Ok, pastor is on it.

What does this mean? I'm getting the sense that there's a lot missing from this story.

 

[IndieSolo]

. . . due to my encouragement and allowing her the freedom.

. . . He understands my position with allowing her to have sex with him . . .

You allowed her? So, by that, do you mean that you are her boss and dictator and are the one to determine what she can and cannot do with her own life and her own body, and how she can express her sexuality? Or are you her partner, standing by her side and seeing which of her choices you can accept as part of your life? The first puts you in charge of her as if she is your property, the second makes it a partnership and respects her autonomy as a human being with individual rights. Which is it?

We initially intended on them having sex maybe once every 1.5 to 2 weeks . . . We came up with the possibility of a plan . . . We agreed for her to have more flexibility with her time with him, keeping me totally informed.

This sounds like you and she are determining how her relationship with the other man is "allowed" to progress. Not only do you come across as "in charge" and dictating her life - now you are dictating his. What about him? He has a say in his own relationship, or do you not respect that at all? You only like the hotwife thing, where your wife is just a piece of ass for other men to fuck and use for your own gratification, but -- damn it -- no feelings should be involved and no one else but you gets to say what happens to your property (wife)?

Can you see how fully you orchestrated this situation you don't like?

 

[sdguitarguy]

Ok, pastor is on it.

Now, if that fails I force her to pack bags and leave, etc. no contact until she dumps this guy.

Realistically she can return daytime when I'm not at home. Should I change locks?

None of this sounds very good.

Forcing someone to stay in a relationship that they don't want doesn't make a lot of sense. You can't control how someone feels. You may force her to stay in the short term but I guarantee the resentment will grow and they will be looking for the first possible out.

If you do plan on separating, it can take a month or two to get things organized, arrange finances, find a new place, move out, etc. I've been through a separation from a long term relationship and, yeah, it sucks, but treat her like you'd like to be treated if the situation were reversed.

 

[Spork]

Ok, pastor is on it.

Now, if that fails I force her to pack bags and leave, etc. no contact until she dumps this guy.

Realistically she can return daytime when I'm not at home. Should I change locks?

...what?

1. Second the question, "pastor is on it" --what does that mean? You guys go to church and you've got your pastor talking to her about what she is doing wrong? Dude. If that is what you're saying here, does the pastor know that you had her perform sexual acts with other men so you could watch her? Or are you just painting her as the bad, bad cheater here? What the heck is this about?

2. Is her name on your house, too, or just yours? If you jointly bought or leased the home, do you realize that you've got no legal right to throw her out? Just wondering...

3. You seem a bit extreme and uncompromising. Have you told her what you need? Is she refusing to treat you better? Did you talk to her? That whole communication thing that we constantly harp on in poly circles, yanno...either there is a lot of that missing between you and the wife, and/or a lot of communication missing from you to this thread in terms of what's going on there.

 

[FallenAngelina]

If you do plan on separating, it can take a month or two to get things organized, arrange finances, find a new place, move out, etc.

Took me two years. I would counsel anyone to err on the side of taking it slowly. Changing the locks seems rash and something done in anger like that is probably not a good move for a respectful separation. Unless there is cause to be wary of danger, changing locks is way too aggressive and won't lead to a mutually agreeable outcome.

 

[Spork]

Took me two years. I would counsel anyone to err on the side of taking it slowly. Changing the locks seems rash and something done in anger like that is probably not a good move for a respectful separation. Unless there is cause to be wary of danger, changing locks is way too aggressive and won't lead to a mutually agreeable outcome.

Agree lots.

Remember. Lawyers cost money. And the bigger the fight, the more billable lawyer hours get involved in it. If it is possible, anyone considering divorce should really TRY to stay friendly-ish as much as they can.

(About a year, over here, and we haven't even started the paperwork yet, but I'm about to move into my own place...it is a PROCESS.)

 

[Perrey]

Wow. Something happened and fast. I wonder what? Hope everything is okay on both sides.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Remember. Lawyers cost money. And the bigger the fight, the more billable lawyer hours get involved in it. If it is possible, anyone considering divorce should really TRY to stay friendly-ish as much as they can.

If only more people knew this!!! A bitter divorce is an expensive divorce. Divorce need not be the ugly drama that so many are familiar with and you certainly don't need to go through attorneys. As Spork points out, every time you can't speak to your spouse directly, that'$ money out of your pocket - both of you lose. It literally pay$ to go slowly, keep open minds, open hearts and use a mediator for the legal stuff.

 

[Travelingcouple]

I will address many of today's posts, but first:

So at this point her texting and communicating is Rare with me (I'm learning she's doing the same with other family too). She often times waits hours to respond (if she chooses to at all). I'm no longer bugging her for a blow by blow detailed text log of time in and time out of wherever they go. Even though she initially agreed to that as part of "our" more freedom agreement and within 24 hours she failed at following the rule. I never stopped the freedom (probably couldn't stop it anyway). Any way, she has gone 180 degrees away from what we initially discussed at the onset of this. I'm shocked and hurt by her keeping me in the dark and getting short and cold with me and I naturally want her to know that it's not ok, yet I now understand that I need to remain calm and cool toward her too.

My question: when she does text, how should I reply? Greatful? As a matter of fact? Be nice and get back quickly or wait an hour or three? Conversational or a simple "thanks"?

I'm mostly a very nice guy to everyone including my wife. She does have the ability to show her tough and mean side a lot faster than me. She has suddenly been short and cold with me in her few texts and one phone conversation and in person during her last overnight with me. NRE? But really, what's the best strategy to return her texts?

 

[sdguitarguy]

My question: when she does text, how should I reply? Greatful? As a matter of fact? Be nice and get back quickly or wait an hour or three? Conversational or a simple "thanks"?

My rule is that I never text about emotional issues. And there is so much communication that is not going well here. Trying to navigate this via text messaging is a minefield. So I would keep it simple, be nice but try to arrange a time to talk face to face. Don't start playing games with the response time. If you're available to respond, respond. If not, do it when it's convenient and you have the time to think about it.

 

[Travelingcouple]

Some response, thoughts, and questions.

1. I told my pastor the truth and he knows that I let it happen. I discussed her in a loving way. My pastor won't beat her up, not his style.
2. Pastor agrees About NRE
3. Idea of pastor is to get her home and end this. I understand she might resent this and miss BF.
4. Idea of pastor is he's an authoritative figure who she respects. He's the best chance to get her to listen and attempt to shake her out of this funk.
5. Yes, I'm just as at fault as she is. I lead her down the path of sex with another guy (going into this both of us devised and agreed upon rules). NRE took over quickly and the rule went out the window for her. The relationship quickly manifested. We talked and she wanted to soften the rules a bit and give it another try. She failed again.
6.Yes both names are on deed. I can't kick her out but I can ask her to leave in order for me to keep my sanity.
7. I see her slowly weaving BF into her circle of friends
8. She has not yet packed her bags and walked out with a big show for me. In fact we've never uttered any argumentative words over this. She has been spending no time at home day or night, just stopping in daytime to get a few of her things like underwear, change of clothes, makeup etc. not contributing to anything at home though.

I do understand about attorney and move finances.

9. Should I speak directly to BF and be direct and firm and say simply "if you don't end your involvement in breaking up this marriage and family then you will e dealing with a hostile husband"?. Good move or bad move? I'm not normally a confrontational type.

10 . I noticed her Facebook profile pic changed. BF made a comment. Should I comment too or leave it alone?

11 .Should I be chasing her to win her back? To win back my girl?

12. Do I dare randomly tell her that I love her or miss her?

13. Should I get with her and tell her "choose marriage or choose him" and if she chooses him should I pack and walk or should I ask her to pack and go? (Quite frankly I have no where to go long term)

 

[Spork]

OK. I have a sense of what's going on here.

I think that you are one of these men (based on many of the points you have spoken in your posts) who has a very hard time viewing women as human beings in the same manner that men are. Your wife, in this case. I'm going to try to remain as objective as possible, but I will put the disclaimer out there that this is a VERY sore spot for me, personally.

You were ok with her getting banged by other dudes with these "rules" in place, and only when every single part of it was for YOUR BENEFIT. You were OK with her being a cheap sex object, but not a person with feelings, except for you. So long as your ownership of her emotionally was secure, you could handle the compartmentalized sex play stuff. You were ok with other men not treating her like a PERSON. You have probably got it in your mind that men and women can't really be friends. You may have told her that men who act like they are her friends, just really want to have sex with her. You may have spent years convincing her that her sexuality makes her less human. Except with YOU, of course. You're different. You LOVE her. You're not like all the other men "out there." Unfortunately, what men who do this don't realize...is that you're the only man in her life who is treating her like that. She probably knows lots of men who, while they might have sexual thoughts about her, are civilized enough to keep them to themselves and treat her like a human being. She comes to believe that YOU are the one who doesn't respect her, because you spend so much time carrying on trying to keep her hostile to all of those other men who are a threat to you.

Why do I think all of this about you?
-"I'm a nice guy." If you have to say it...who are you trying to convince?
-The fact that you seem to think she doesn't have free will, and legs and feet to walk away from you. Only the hand of another man can pick her up and TAKE her and if she isn't with him, well OF COURSE she'll be yours. She is property. Honestly from how she's acting (slowly moving out, going cold on you) she is ready to leave. A woman who is really ready to leave, is gonna leave, even if she has to be ALONE.

Everything that you are doing right now is manipulative as hell. You really think you can confront this rival and win "your girl" back? She's gone, buddy. You've already lost her. She's seen that there are guys out there who will treat her differently than you have been doing...and I doubt if she's gonna want to go back.

No, this particular boyfriend is not going to be her happily ever after. He's probably a rebound and a mistake. She'll realize that soon enough. But that doesn't mean she'll come back to you once that falls apart. Getting a male "authority figure" involved to tell her how it is...you are treating her like a child. Less than a person. She is going to show you just how much autonomous power she's got, she's going to be out of your life before you know it. You have disrespected her, treated her like property and an object, and she's probably done dealing with that. Her kids are grown, right? What's keeping her there?

Given that she has been only showing up long enough to get her stuff, I'd say that you should expect to keep the house. The goal at this stage is to let this whole thing end with some dignity, and not act like a petty, childish, a-hole. Don't play games. Not with texts, or social media. I know you're hurting. But sometimes you can't control people entering and exiting your life...you can control what you do and how you act, but not what others choose. You might consider some counseling, and you should think about how to conduct yourself in what will likely be a divorce situation to protect your assets and move on.

 

[Spork]

I think the tone of my last post might have been a little harsh, and I apologize for that somewhat. Again...I'm wary of the possibility that some of my own baggage might be creeping in there a little.

I just want to ask that you pause a moment in your thinking of how to take control of the situation, get her to do what you want, get him out of the picture, etc. and think about what you are doing, look within. Be ~self aware~ before you look too hard at others. You are asking a forum full of strangers how to behave and conduct yourself. You can tell us a bunch of rules that were supposed to govern your wife's actions, and you are upset that she has broken them. May I ask what the rules were that she made, for YOU to follow? Or did she not have that power, only you? Maybe you should be asking her how you're supposed to act, not us?

I do think that there is likely more damage than you've been aware of. I do not think that bringing more authority to bear and throwing your weight around, is going to get you the results you want. Tend to yourself and keep your mind and heart as calm as possible.

I find it unfortunate that a lot of people seem to use polyamory as a less objectionable label for behavior that is in fact either cheating, or the scoping out of new options as one is exiting a mono relationship. I don't think that's supposed to be how this works.

 

[Tinwen]

Some response, thoughts, and questions.

All this is my personal opinion based on limited experience, but I don't think I am very off here.

1. I told my pastor the truth and he knows that I let it happen. I discussed her in a loving way. My pastor won't beat her up, not his style.
2. Pastor agrees About NRE
3. Idea of pastor is to get her home and end this. I understand she might resent this and miss BF.
4. Idea of pastor is he's an authoritative figure who she respects. He's the best chance to get her to listen and attempt to shake her out of this funk.

It may be fine speaking with someone wise may be a fine idea, if you, say, ask a unbiased person (like a marriage counselor) to be a mediator in your discussions.
But trying to make her surrender to authority disregarding of resentment is just ... wrong in so many ways. The pastor is hardly unbiased here. It would be braking of my trust to tell my story with the intention to persuade me to be "reasonable". To miss someone is ok, but regardless of resentment? Blah. It must be her free decision to manage this crises long-term and without resentment.

5. Yes, I'm just as at fault as she is. I lead her down the path of sex with another guy (going into this both of us devised and agreed upon rules). NRE took over quickly and the rule went out the window for her. The relationship quickly manifested. We talked and she wanted to soften the rules a bit and give it another try. She failed again.

It's your fault as hers?
Throw the "fault" concept out of the window. Don't blame, neither her or yourself, it's useless.
I you helped this situation develop? Think about how you might behave more effectively next time.
Hint? In your case it is surely not watching and controlling your partner more.

On her part? Encourage her to recognise and reject agreements she cannot keep. Make a safe environment for her to say no, so you know where you stand and can work on compromise.

8. She has not yet packed her bags and walked out with a big show for me. In fact we've never uttered any argumentative words over this. She has been spending no time at home day or night, just stopping in daytime to get a few of her things like underwear, change of clothes, makeup etc. not contributing to anything at home though.

So either this is a breakup, or she is just not willing to meat you in your current emotional state.

9. Should I speak directly to BF and be direct and firm and say simply "if you don't end your involvement in breaking up this marriage and family then you will e dealing with a hostile husband"?. Good move or bad move? I'm not normally a confrontational type.

Nonsense move. Blackmail. If you want him to know that you do not consent of the relationship any longer, than tell him this much. Spare the threats and spare yourself the negatives of holding onto resenting and blaming him (or her).
He is not the one to decide here! It is your wife.

10 . I noticed her Facebook profile pic changed. BF made a comment. Should I comment too or leave it alone?

Would you comment if he hadn't? No? Leave it alone. Unless you know your wife would be happy for a comment and want to do her a favor, but even than, you don't have to be better than her bf in everything he does. Since NRE, you cannot win this "race" anyway.
But really, not that important.

11. Should I be chasing her to win her back? To win back my girl?

Please, if you care, invite her back. This is my biggest message with this post. If you want her back, invite her with everything she is and everything she feels. And let her decide.
She said she doesn't feel safe in your home. Make it safe for her again. If you can, offer her true understanding, company and a home with no blame, no pressure. Let her have her affair no, just keep inviting her home and asking her for good times. Restrictions, in my experience, make her choose between partners unnecessarily. She may not choose to leave, if she can enjoy NRE and have a nice relationship with you at the same time. Your current behaviour makes her want to be as far from you as possible. Try the opposite.

Offer respect for her feelings, then she will have it easier to respect yours.

This is not a competition with her BF, you cannot win her. You can only land at a mutually acceptable agreement (poly, or mono if she decides he is a mistake after all).

12. Do I dare randomly tell her that I love her or miss her?

Yes. If you want to invite her, that is necessary. Date again. "I miss you, would you like to go to dinner with me?"

13. Should I get with her and tell her "choose marriage or choose him" and if she chooses him should I pack and walk or should I ask her to pack and go? (Quite frankly I have no where to go long term)

If you cannot accept her loving him, and want to separate? Because dating him seems non-negotiable at this point.
Bring it to an amicable divorce as others have said. Agree, who moves out, and allow enough time to arrange another living place.

 

[AJM]

When you issue an ultimatum be prepared for them to accept it... For the worse.

Don't tell her to choose BF or marriage unless you're prepared for her to choose BF

 

[kdt26417]

@ Travelingcouple ... so, you and your wife both own your house together? If so, and if you break up, it's not fair for either of you to keep the house. Instead you would need to sell the house and split the proceeds 50/50.

Although hopefully it won't come to that? if the pastor successfully reasons with her?

I don't recommend threatening her boyfriend. And I don't recommend trying to compete with him. If you want to keep your wife, just ask her what she needs from you. If she wants stuff that is outside your realm of willingness, then perhaps you don't want the person she really is?