Married man meeting women advice

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FullaLove

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So i am in my late 20s. Been with my wife almost 10 years, married for 6 of them and poly for 5 1/2 of them. It was both our idea to be poly but it graduated into that over time. She found a boyfriend really fast and I got jealous. Not jealous of them but jealous because I wanted someone. They broke up and she found someone else. That ended and she has a boyfriend who she's been with 4 years now. I'm long past all jealousy but I do want to find someone for myself now. I have had no other relationship since starting to be poly.

My wife is not into the idea of seeking a partner, she thinks it should be someone you meet in regular life. So she wouldn't want online dating, out going out trying to find a girl. So, I never really found anyone. Well i have a real job now and work with a girl I'm attracted to. We honestly only met a few times but IM and email a lot (its required for work and we sort of directly work together. She is on the floor below mine. I just enjoy talking to her at work, it makes work more enjoyable. But I never expected anything, not even a friendship from it. But she started to kind of flirt (I think) and she said she owes me coffee. She does not know I am married though. I hate when someone likes me and doesn't know I'm married. I would like her to know I have a spouse before we ever go out. Id like to go out with her as friends first with no expectations, see how things go. That would take the pressure off as neither of us would be expecting anything.

How do I spring into normal conversation that I have a wife? I'd really like to take her up on her coffee offer but would like to skip the awkwardness of her flirting and then seeing my ring. Like I said, I want to go out and have fun as friends and see what happens. How do you guys do it?

Maybe I have it all wrong. When I meet someone I'm interested in, I subconsciously don't mention my wife because I feel my chance will automatically be zero of they know that. But then once we get to talking and flirting, I'm really wishing they knew about my significant other.

I need advice on how to bring it up with this girl and with others. I don't want to just throw it out, it has to make sense why I mention my wife.. I'll stop typing now and see what responses I get
 
I totally understand that feeling you are talking about.

I would probably go for lunch/coffee with her, and while you are out, bring up that "my wife will be at her boyfriend's this weekend, so I'm thinking of going to see my friend's band play" (Insert whatever plans you might have here)

For me, if someone asks if I have a boyfriend/husband, before I get a chance to bring it up naturally, I say "Yep, we're in an open relationship. He's awesome and super not-jealous. It's great."

Something, anything that shows that although you are in a relationship, it's also okay for you to be out with her.

Even just flash the ring around a bit over coffee. If she's interested, she'll ask.

I get that awkward in between time where you haven't had a natural segue for explaining your relationship status, but that it also feels pre-mature to just toss it out there. If you seem relaxed about it, she will sense that. Also offer her to ask any questions she might want, as telling someone you are poly can often lead to a lot of curiosity and questions.

Good luck with the new lady, I hope it works out for you :)
 
Hi, FullaLove, and welcome!

I feel pretty funny giving you advice on this, because I'm probably even more shy than you are about letting someone know that I'm romantically interested. I'm 61yo and it STILL isn't easy. But maybe precisely because of that, I should [try to] help you out.

Several times in my life I haven't said anything and the woman in question has been obviously pissed off at me. (I come from a generation where - although things were slowly changing - it was usually up to the man to make the first move.) Other times I've said nothing and the woman has disappeared out of my life, leaving me thinking "Was she or wasn't she?" (interested in me) I should point out that in all these cases, the woman has always shown signs of interest. (Like this woman you're talking about and the invitation to coffee. [It would help your readers to understand - in future - about whom you're writing if you would give your wife and this woman pseudonyms.]) But - in most cases - they were ambiguous signs. In other cases, they were pretty blatantly obvious, but my brainwashed lack of self-confidence made it difficult for me to believe that she could really find me attractive.

All this to say: learn your approach skills before it's too late. Don't go over the top (become a stalker / a sexual harrasser), but be willing to fall flat on your face. Believe me, that's a LOT less painful than lasting regrets for "what might have been".

OK. First things first. It is out of order for you to conceal your married status once it's obvious that she's looking for more than "just" friendship. But that was never your intention: you're looking for ways to reveal it. You can play it slow motion or fast motion, soft pedal or come on stronger.

The first option: You go for coffee, invite her to do "innocent" things that are well within the bounds of friendship, and wait for further signs. Make sure she knows that you like her, that you like her company (pursue her company: don't let her slip away), but once the first card is laid face-up on the table (whichever of you lays it down), you've got to show her your full hand. With this option you run the risk of her thinking "He's not interested in me that way, after all: I'll go for someone else...", so you might prefer the more direct approach.

If you let her know that you're married, she might think: "Uh oh! Off limits: not going to tangle with that!" Even if you say "... But my wife is all for my seeing other women", she might think "Yeah, sure! I've heard THAT one before!"

Medium approach might be to let her see you reading some poly book, like "The Ethical Slut" and see if she comments on that.

Full-bore, full-steam ahead option would be to spring on her the marriage and the poly and your interest in her all together, in a way that she knows it's really poly. (Though this might scare her off: you know her better than I.) Something like "My wife's boyfriend got 4 free tickets for the _____ concert. Would you like to go?" Of course, the concert wasn't free, and YOU might have to pay for all 4. But it might be worth it... if it works; and, once you're together, you can admit it was all a ploy. By that time, she'll probably think it cute.

(Depending on your economics, it doesn't have to be a concert: "Hey, my wife's boyfriend wants to start a quartet. Do you sing?" Use your imagination and available circumstances.) This tactic depends on your wife's and metamour's collaboration, but even if they're not willing to go on a double date, the idea could be modified: "My wife's boyfriend got 2 tickets for such and such a movie, but she's caught a cold/has to work that night/doesn't like romantic comedies/whatever...and I don't fancy him, so would you like to go with me?"

You get the idea.

Incidentally,
FullaLove said:
My wife is not into the idea of seeking a partner, she thinks it should be someone you meet in regular life. So she wouldn't want online dating, out going out trying to find a girl.
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I'm not a fan of going out and searching for a girl. But that's my choice and your wife's choice. She shouldn't make the rules about how you find someone. That's your choice. If on-line flirting/dating is a lot easier for you, why should your wife decide that you can't do it that way?
 
Agree, OP that you should do online dating if YOU want to. Your wife doesn't have to, if it's not her thing, and you don't have to take the same approach that she does. You do you.

As for the telling your coffee date about being married, and poly...

I'm a real "cards on the table" kind of gal. Now I'll disclaimer this with the fact that my approach DOES sometimes spook people. But you know what, I've decided it's worth it. I don't like relationships that have communication problems, and that is a hard enough line to toe during the course of a thing with someone...if they can't handle the truth upfront, then what does that say for the rest of it? And no, it isn't better to have a crappy relationship with broken communication, than none at all. Not in my opinion.

I'm gonna stick to my methods, and if a date doesn't like it, then they can go be coy and play games somewhere else. And it doesn't matter if I get one opportunity or a hundred.

So I'd look the gal right in the eye over coffee, hold up the hand with the ring and point at it, and ask her if she is familiar with the concept of polyamory. And then explain what it looks like in your relationship. Your nonverbal stuff will matter more than the words coming out of your face, to most people you talk to. I've had conversations about shocking topics with conservative people, often with very little prior acquaintanceship beforehand, just because "today I feel like talking about <whatever>" and I'll strike up that conversation wherever the chance appears. But I don't have those people freaking out and calling me names, because I've got a friendly and engaging manner, and my nonverbals aren't too intense and aren't threatening...nor are they too awkward and nervous.

Under no circumstances would I wait to relay this information. Seriously, if my date noticed my wedding ring (and women tend to be fairly observant) but didn't say anything, and nothing got said, I would assume she thinks I'm a cheater, and if she is cool with that, then I've got some questions about HER ethics. I'd rather head it off at the pass, and let's just get it out there and see if it's going to be a problem or not.
 
Can we slow this ride down for a second? This is someone the OP works with. It may be unwise to treat coffee with her as anything but the warm end of professional and cordial. Being out as poly at work has particular risks, in addition to the risks of dating at the workplace. I would advise the OP to have coffee and treat the relationship as the start of a professional network, not a possible romance.
 
I highly recommend not dating someone at work.

Other than that I think becoming friends before you try to approach someone for dating is definitely the best option. But the same time don't just become friends because you want to get romantically involved most women can see through that
 
BlueShoes said:
Can we slow this ride down for a second? This is someone the OP works with. It may be unwise to treat coffee with her as anything but the warm end of professional and cordial. Being out as poly at work has particular risks, in addition to the risks of dating at the workplace. I would advise the OP to have coffee and treat the relationship as the start of a professional network, not a possible romance.
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Yes to this. Dating a coworker is always a little risky, even more so when one of the individuals is married. I'd tread cautiously.
 
I hadn't thought of the co-workers angle (I think that my comment dealt with tactics in general*), but I have to agree that it poses its own set of problems. If it works out fine, you're lucky. But if it [someday] goes skewiff, it can be VERY bad news. Office gossip, poly-prejudiced people downing you. People incapable of grasping alien concepts opining: "If he's cheating on his wife, what's to stop him cheating on the firm?!" Bad atmosphere could lead to losing/resigning your job.

Go for the coffee. But take Spork's advice: Point at the ring, say "I'm married... in case you were thinking of anything besides a friendship. But I would like to be friends." If you enjoy playing it dangerously, you could throw in (maybe when you know her better): "I don't believe in dating co-workers."

The on-line option? Or keep waiting to meet someone socially...

It might happen with this woman at work. It might work out great. But it needs extra caution and more time. Take it slow. And be prepared for / willing to be "just" good friends. (Probably the best option, anyway.)

*
FullaLove said:
I need advice on how to bring it up with this girl and with others.
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I also find the work dating thing...of dubious merit, and would suggest that you find other alternatives.

But this point has been raised and discussed before, so I wasn't going to belabor it too much (not that I expect others to know that, I just remember that I got some pushback the last time I said, "I don't think it's a good idea to date coworkers...") It's up to you, but I hope you're aware it's risky.

I personally just feel like, if it ends, and there is drama, then that's something you would have to deal with as a captive audience, at WORK, or the discomfort might even make one or both of you quit your job or something...that's not so nice.

I'm out as poly and as kinky among my coworkers. I converse about my weirdness on smoke breaks with people, no one really cares and I don't feel that my job is at risk. I don't hide these things. Mainly because I want "normal people" to put a face and a story on these concepts, not just assume that there are random weirdos out there that do this stuff. And I can't stand the thought that people think BDSM looks like 50 Shades. Bleh. No. But my office is in a fairly progressive area. I couldn't get away with this just anywhere, and I know it.
 
More than office gossip - polyamory is not a protected class. Employers are free to use it as a basis for discrimination in hiring and retention. I am reasonably out, including at work, but I also live in a progressive area, and my current workplace was carefully vetted before I came out in it.

And MrFarFromRight - I'm finding your advice on strategy here seriously problematic. I can see that you want to be helpful and encourage people to chase what they want, but you also say things like this:

pursue her company: don't let her slip away
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I know of no way to pursue someone's company without also pursuing their person, so I don't understand your emphasis there.

Slipping away is what people do when they aren't interested. It's a choice that they have every right to make by and for themselves, and past which they should not be pursued. Early dating is supposed to be an investigative process. Either party should be free to determine that they have investigated enough, and explanations should not be required.
 
A lot of different approaches here but the different advice is appreciated.

As for work, we have several thousand people working here so it's not like a small office. My floor alone has over a hundred and she works on the floor below me. One of my superiors just married someone in the company. Another coworker met his wife here.

I wouldn't go around flaunting a relationship, I'd keep it private, but I'm not worried about my job on this one.
 
By the way, I mainly want her to know I'm married before we go out so there is less pressure. We can talk normal and become friends. I could lightly and appropriately flirt and see how she takes it. If it turns out I'm not interested or she isn't, then I don't have to mention the whole poly thing. I'm all for just being friends if it doesn't work out.
 
BlueShoes said:
And MrFarFromRight - I'm finding your advice on strategy here seriously problematic. I can see that you want to be helpful and encourage people to chase what they want, but you also say things like this:
pursue her company: don't let her slip away
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I know of no way to pursue someone's company without also pursuing their person, so I don't understand your emphasis there.
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That "pursue her company: don't let her slip away" was meant to be read in the context of what I'd written about my experiences of not showing enough interest [in several women who had already shown interest in me]. In no way was it intended to be an argument for stalking. The verb doesn't have only negative connotations. You can pursue a hobby.

BlueShoes said:
Slipping away is what people do when they aren't interested. It's a choice that they have every right to make by and for themselves, and past which they should not be pursued.
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Slipping away is [also] what [some] people do when they [are of the opinion that you] aren't interested.

Yes, it's their choice. But it's sometimes made under incorrect assumptions.
Example (back from my early 20s, not long after my leaving home [fundamentalist Christian: sex before/outside marriage is WICKED]. I'd graduated from that, but it still left its residues.)

London. A very lovely Chilean woman (political refugee from Pinochet's reign of terror; of about my age) and I become friends, live in the same street, spend time together (incl. playing tennis at the public courts in the park). She then gets a job as an au pair in another area of London. On one of her visits, after tennis, she stays late enough to be invited to stay the night. A [female] housemate of mine offers to let her sleep in her room.

"No thanks," she answers, "I'll sleep in MFFR's room."

So I, the naive and chaste White Knight, give her my bed and make up a bed on the floor, even though she is insisting that I should get in with her.
She starts grumbling in Spanish (which I don't speak back then) and I - scared of sex - choose to pretend that I don't understand what she's upset about.
[Edit, add: I WANT to make love with her. She's lovely! I'm just scared. If she were to pursue me more, if she were to say in English what she's saying in Spanish, I'd get into bed with her, whatever that leads to. At this point in my life - I think - I need someone else to take the initiative. I need to be hit over the head repeatedly. i need someone else to push me off the diving board.]

Next morning, although she isn't due back at her job until the evening (and we'd planned to spend the day together), she rushes off. She doesn't even stay for breakfast.

She doesn't show up for her next weekly visit.

I, cursing myself for a coward (hiding behind pretended incomprehension), make my way across London to the house where she's au pairing.

Only she isn't: she's "slipped away"... to Amsterdam. No forwarding address. (At least, that's what her former boss says.)

Lovely woman! Naive, chaste White Knight. Nearly 40 years later, I sometimes wonder "What if?"

So: her choice, sure. But she (evidently) would have preferred for me to have made some move.

(But then again: it's all worked out for the best, hasn't it?)
 
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I wouldn't flirt with her if I were you, OP. Keep it light, friendly, and professional, and just say, "Yeah, let's grab a cup of coffee." Then let it be simply two colleagues out socializing as many people do with others from work. While you're out having coffee, you can mention being married and if it seems clear that she is flirting with you, tell her that you and your wife have an open relationship and are free to date others. If she doesn't flirt, do not flirt with her and let it be fully professional.

By the way, I am someone who has quite a few relationships with coworkers and bosses in my lifetime, and it never backfired or caused me problems. If I never dated anyone from work, I wouldn't have had a very active love life at all.

However, I also think you should be able to have an online profile up if you want to. Your wife does not have to dictate how you are "allowed" to meet people.
 
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Hi FullaLove,

I suppose at some point during the conversation you could say, "I should let you know, I'm nonmonogamous. My wife and I both see other people, and we're okay about that." There's a certain risk in being so direct, but, there's a risk in being indirect too.

I think you're trying to do the right thing here, and I commend you for that.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
FullaLove said:
By the way, I mainly want her to know I'm married before we go out so there is less pressure. We can talk normal and become friends. I could lightly and appropriately flirt and see how she takes it. If it turns out I'm not interested or she isn't, then I don't have to mention the whole poly thing. I'm all for just being friends if it doesn't work out.
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No pressure on whom?

I have the feeling that you're afraid, "what if I approach this as a DATE and with hopes and stuff, and she doesn't MEAN it that way? Why would she like me? How can I presume such a thing, when maybe she's just trying to be friendly?"

Like you're afraid to get your hopes up, so you're leaving yourself an "out."

Well I don't think you should do that. I think that you should meet this woman for coffee, and spend the first chunk of minutes (minimum of 5-10) assessing her nonverbal communication. I really can't emphasize this enough. People tell you so many things without words. You should be able to tell by her eyes, smile, stance, how she sits, whether she is actually interested in you, or not. If not, I would also expect her to explain her asking you out on a date, like if she has some kind of a networking agenda, she's gonna bring that up.

You get halfway through this and she hasn't mentioned your wedding ring yet, you point it out and explain poly to her.

I do not suggest you tell her beforehand that you're married, but don't tell her you're poly. In mainstream society, saying "I'm married" is the equivalent of saying "OFF LIMITS." If she is interested in you, letting her know beforehand that you are married could cause her to either cancel the date, or think you're a cheater, and that's no bueno. Talk to her in person about both things.

Unless you're trying to sabotage the whole thing...
 
That's what I was questioning. Not mentioning my wife beforehand I would feel like I was blindsiding her during a date. And mentioning it before, might seem to her like I am saying I'm off limits. And by flirt I meant it in a way like smiling and just mannerisms. Not hardcore flirting.
 
FullaLove said:
That's what I was questioning. Not mentioning my wife beforehand I would feel like I was blindsiding her during a date. And mentioning it before, might seem to her like I am saying I'm off limits.
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But did you read my post? I don't think you need to say anything before the date because you should treat it like a totally professional work colleague coffee thing, NOT a romantic date. When you're out together, after a little while, mention that you're married and see what her reaction is. If she seems disappointed or pouty, tell her you're open but wasn't sure what she was interested in. Up until you get very clear, strong flirting vibes from her, don't consider it a date date. Consider it a work thing.
 
nycindie said:
But did you read my post? I don't think you need to say anything before the date because you should treat it like a totally professional work colleague coffee thing, NOT a romantic date. When you're out together, after a little while, mention that you're married and see what her reaction is. If she seems disappointed or pouty, tell her you're open but wasn't sure what she was interested in. Up until you get very clear, strong flirting vibes from her, don't consider it a date date. Consider it a work thing.
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This is pretty darn good advice.

And if you combine this with my mention to wait a little bit and watch her behavior during your coffee outing, like don't spring it on her instantly...see how she's acting. If she acts professional, or she tells you a professional reason, "The reason I asked you out to coffee, was so we could discuss the Anderson accounts...I need your help in reconciling blahblahblah..." well hey then, you'll know pretty quick what she is up to. And you won't have to say, "I'm married!" because it won't matter!

But if you're there, and it's all happy smiley casual conversation, and her eyes are a-sparklin' and she seems all into you, there might come a point where it's appropriate to cross that bridge. And when you do, be ready to explain your polyness right along with it.
 
I agree, mention that you're open during the coffee get-together.
 
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