Mind blowing!

[PolyHolly]

Hi everyone again,

One thing I’ve realised through reading some of the posts here (which I don’t feel qualified to comment on yet, but give me time), is that there seems to be all sorts of dynamics/ways of being in polyamory. My first question: is there one defining commonality between all of these different dynamics/set-ups?

We met our secondaries earlier in the year. It was a slow burner, due to personal commitments on both sides. We met through swinging. We (let’s call us Harry and Holly) had more swinging experiences than they (let’s call them Andy and Annie) had. They were far more focussed on finding an exclusive set up, social as well as sex, than we were. But somehow we have fallen in love with them and everything has changed. We haven’t sought anyone else out in a swinging capacity (they did not insist on this) and that ‘want’ is swiftly diminishing.

The romantic/love/attraction/care feelings go this way outside of our primary relationships (in no particular order):

Harry and Annie
Holly and Andy
Annie and Holly

Harry and Andy have a really close bond (beyond anything that I have seen from Harry with another male, whether friend of family) but have no sexual/attraction feelings.

Because it’s early days, practically everything that we do takes place as a four, or within sight of each other, although we have had some discussions on how that might move on. We are all keen to take care of each other, not to cause any upset, so maybe this side of things will go slowly, so that whoever might be ‘catching up’ is happy. Although I can understand that this may feel frustrating at times.

I realise how idealistic this seems, and it’s not exactly like this. Of course, we have done and said things out of synch with each other, but that care for each other is the underlying vibe to it all.

So question 2 is: I’m not sure what you call our dynamic, does it have a name?

Question 3: Are we actually mad to think this can work? Coming from where we were, with no thoughts of a poly relationship, it seems mind-blowingly crazy in some ways, terrifying at times, but perfect from my side, nonetheless.

I would love to hear your thoughts…

Holly x

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi everyone again,

One thing I’ve realised through reading some of the posts here (which I don’t feel qualified to comment on yet, but give me time), is that there seems to be all sorts of dynamics/ways of being in polyamory. My first question: is there one defining commonality between all of these different dynamics/set-ups?

A commonality would be love. Another commonality would be open, frequent, clear and HONEST communication.

A difference between a quad such as yours, and a more common poly V, where there is a hinge and 2 arms who are not involved romantically/sexually, is what I pointed you to in that other thread about the complicated math when your partner becomes your metamour.

Another complication is the fact that each dyad can develop at its own pace. Sometimes there will be love between 2. Sometimes there will be more of a FWB thing. Sometimes there will just be platonic friendship. And sometimes (heaven forbid) 2 people will start to irritate each other and they won't want to spend time together at all.

During NRE it can all seem like a bed of roses. But over time, that high dissipates and people's true personalities come out. That's when the storms can start.

We met our secondaries earlier in the year. It was a slow burner, due to personal commitments on both sides. We met through swinging. We (let’s call us Harry and Holly) had more swinging experiences than they (let’s call them Andy and Annie) had. They were far more focussed on finding an exclusive set up, social as well as sex, than we were. But somehow we have fallen in love with them and everything has changed. We haven’t sought anyone else out in a swinging capacity (they did not insist on this) and that ‘want’ is swiftly diminishing.

The romantic/love/attraction/care feelings go this way outside of our primary relationships (in no particular order):

Harry and Annie
Holly and Andy
Annie and Holly

Harry and Andy have a really close bond (beyond anything that I have seen from Harry with another male, whether friend of family) but have no sexual/attraction feelings.

Because it’s early days, practically everything that we do takes place as a four, or within sight of each other, although we have had some discussions on how that might move on. We are all keen to take care of each other, not to cause any upset, so maybe this side of things will go slowly, so that whoever might be ‘catching up’ is happy. Although I can understand that this may feel frustrating at times.

Some dyads might not "catch up," and that can be OK. Respect the level of attraction of each dyad. No one should hang around if they don't want to, just to please the others.

I realise how idealistic this seems, and it’s not exactly like this. Of course, we have done and said things out of synch with each other, but that care for each other is the underlying vibe to it all.

So question 2 is: I’m not sure what you call our dynamic, does it have a name?

A quad.

Question 3: Are we actually mad to think this can work? Coming from where we were, with no thoughts of a poly relationship, it seems mind-blowingly crazy in some ways, terrifying at times, but perfect from my side, nonetheless.

I would love to hear your thoughts…

Holly x

You're not mad/crazy, but you are taking a risk. Stay on top of things. Maybe this will work for a few months, a year or two, or maybe it will last for decades. Not all relationships are going to be lifelong. Time will tell.

You could read Opening Up for lots more experienced-based information, tips, poly skills, speed bumps to look out for, etc.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Holly,

My take is that all polyamory has in common the definition of poly, which in my mind is: Polyamory = "relationships in which any one person is romantically involved with two or more other people, with their knowledge and consent." Beyond that, anything is possible in poly as far as dynamics, structure, and whatnot are concerned. Things don't even have to be sexual to be poly; they can just be romantic. And of course not everyone in a polycule has to be romantic/attracted with/to everyone else in the polycule. I am in a V, for example, in which the other male and me (the legs of the V) are just platonic friends. Both of us are romantically involved with the female (the hinge of our V).

I would loosely call you a quad, even though Harry and Andy are not romantically involved with each other. There are so many things that, in my mind, can be indicated by the word "quad." I don't think every person in the quad has to be romantically involved with every other person in the quad.

I can't guarantee that everything in your quad will work out. Just because something is poly doesn't mean everything will work out. Not unlike monogamy, a breakup is conceivable. However I think your situation is hopeful. It is very possible that the four of you will work out in the long term. Although the shape may change, if that makes sense. Right now you are all four experiencing NRE, which can blur your perceptions of the future.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

We (let’s call us Harry and Holly) had more swinging experiences than they (let’s call them Andy and Annie) had. They were far more focussed on finding an exclusive set up, social as well as sex, than we were. But somehow we have fallen in love with them and everything has changed.

What does that mean? You and Harry promised to be exclusive to Annie and Andy, like you are all going steady together and have all promised that nobody will swing or poly date outside the quad? If so, why make promises like that so soon?

My first question: is there one defining commonality between all of these different dynamics/set-ups?

To me these would be commonalities:

• The fact that a group of people has consented to come together and practice polyamory together.
• HOW they come together is DIY and the people in question have to figure it out/design it.

In the details, as you have already found, it could be different. People could choose to arrange themselves in V's, N's, quads, or larger poly networks.

They may or may not include other forms of non-monogamy like ENM, kink, swinging, etc.

There might be a lot of "separate parallel poly" dyads, some garden party poly; some kitchen table poly; with a hierarchy or not. Not every dyad has to be the same, so some might be doing KTP and some might be doing parallel. It's going to vary. It's ok for each dyad to be as they want to be in that dyad. Some might want to be nesting, some not. Some might want to be play partners only, or FWBs only. Some might want to be married.

It's up to each dyad to figure out what they want to share and how they want to be. (You + Harry) doesn't have to look like (You + Annie) or (You+ Andy.) Nor do the other dyads have to be the same. The people in the actual dyads sort that out.

Maybe you would want to look at the relationship menu with your partners.

https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/pwkdxp

So question 2 is: I’m not sure what you call our dynamic, does it have a name?

Sounds like you are in something like a slash quad that had origins in swinging.

Because Harry and Andy do not date, it's not a cross quad like a box with an X inside, but a box with a slash inside. You could also view it as two triads going on at the same time.

Because it’s early days, practically everything that we do takes place as a four, or within sight of each other, although we have had some discussions on how that might move on.

Is that sex, or sex) and group dates only, and hanging out as a friend group only? I am not clear on what you mean.

Can't you and Harry do dinner and a movie on your own? How about you and Annie, or any of the other dyads? What's the big deal?

Group sex is not a requirement in polyamory. If y'all like that still from your swinging origins, doing whatever swaps in whatever combos, and want to keep doing it, that's up to you all. But each dyad still needs time to date on their own in polyamory. And they could choose to share love/sex on their own, WITHOUT the other people there.

You have 3 partners now -- Harry, Andy, and Annie, so you need time to cultivate those individual relationships. Each dyad deserves its own privacy, not because anything bad or hinky is going on, but because it's ok for each couple to have its own time and space.

You all might want to listen to the podcast on hinging. Because all of you are hinges.

334 - What Makes a Good Hinge Partner — Multiamory

Being a hinge partner can be tough sometimes. This episode focuses on some unique struggles that hinge partners may face, some common pitfalls, and what it takes to be a good hinge partner.

www.multiamory.com

And nobody loves it when a sloppy hinge is oversharing things from one dyad to another and "leaking" stuff.

Like (You + Harry) have your own things.

I doubt Annie wants to spend (you + Annie) dates listening to you go on and on about your problems with Harry or Andy. She probably wants it to be (you + Annie) time. Same for (you + Andy) dates, and (you + Harry) dates.

Because you also date Annie, I doubt you want to hear about Harry's problems with her, or Andy's problems with her.

Implosion is a risk.

Maybe you want to line up a poly counselor for yourself. Or group counseling. You could look here:

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Question 3: Are we actually mad to think this can work?

No you aren't mad (crazy). But mere willingness to go there does not mean you all have the skills/ability to do it long term. Or maybe you do. But just as in any other kind of dating, sometimes people who poly date don't pan out long term. Initial attraction is not automatically deep compatibility. Time will tell if all of you can transition from swinging to polyamory and keep each dyad healthy and interact with each other as partners, hinges, and metas ok. Keep talking, keep going slow.

Think about how this transition time ends.

• What if it ends well? What does a functional quad look like? How do you know you have "arrived?"
• What if someone wants to stop swinging and the others still want to? Then what?
• What if one dyad breaks up? How do the other ones carry on? Or is there an expectation that if one breaks up, then all have to go back to "original couples?" What if it ends up paired in other ways, or down to everyone single?
• What if someone wants to date a new person outside the quad? Then what?

There are probably other things to consider. Talk all that out so the expectations are clear.

Galagirl

 

[Juan234]

Sounds great. I live vicariously here. And this is my ultimate fantasy. The pro is that you are dating a couple, as a couple. The con is that it takes just one to break it off. In the balance is you are departing from swinging on one end, and approaching a closed slash quad on the poly spectrum (I loved Galagirl’s slash box). The ladies get three, and the boys get two. The best part is you are keeping your acceleration slow and constant in order for none of the four to fall behind or get turned off. It almost sounds like a textbook poly engagement or fiction. Possibly the biggest challenge may be how the other three would feel if one wanted to go outside of the quad once the NRE wears off? For some (no pun intended) it is about the NRE. Hopefully you are all committed and this works for you all and as Magdlyn said, time will tell.

 

[icesong]

We met through swinging. We (let’s call us Harry and Holly) had more swinging experiences than they (let’s call them Andy and Annie) had. They were far more focussed on finding an exclusive set up, social as well as sex, than we were. But somehow we have fallen in love with them and everything has changed. We haven’t sought anyone else out in a swinging capacity (they did not insist on this) and that ‘want’ is swiftly diminishing.

I will say that this does kind of raise a bit of a yellow flag for me due to my own past experiences. I was in a quad like this, and my then-metamour and sometimes partner Pink!Girl very very strongly wanted us all to stay “closed” while Knight was very much invested in still being able to date outside the quad despite having been more willing to be closed at the beginning of the relationship(s). In the long run, that ended us all. I highly recommend being very careful as to what commitments you make in that front.

 

[PolyHolly]

I don’t know … maybe what everyone else is doing is not polyamory at all and it is still closer to swinging, just we aren’t seeing other people. I am now in a whole sea of confusion.

The love is there from me for the other three but in very different ways. All deep. However, I think everyone else, for one reason or another, can only function as a four. I feel like a hinge in a quad but I can’t see a seperate proper relationship with any of them except my primary, not from my POV, just from how they all seem to act.

Should my own head be all that I need to be working on here and everyone else needs to just own and take care of their own feelings? I feel like I can exist within the quad having my three relationships but they are not really separate from the other side because everyone else’s mindsets are the four and none of them are entirely making their own decisions but rather discussing actions across the dyads and quad.

Or am I just impatient and expecting too much too soon?

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Holly,

My understanding of the difference between swing and poly is that in swing, it's more about casual sex and there are not feelings involved, whereas in poly, people are actually "in love" with each other, and there are emotional/romantic connections. Not that the line between swing and poly isn't blurred at times.

You are in a situation where you can relate to the other three people one-on-one, while they can only relate to each other as a group of four. Does this make them swingers, and you a polyamorist? I don't know. I always thought it was about the emotional connections (or lack thereof), but maybe I'm wrong. One thing I think is that four people can be poly with each other, but still out of sync with each other. Poly is not a guarantee of smooth sailing.

Or maybe the difference is that your feelings for them are very deep, whereas their feelings for each other are not so deep. Thus, they are leaning in the direction of casual sex, while you are leaning in the direction of meaningful romance. Honestly I don't know, I am just throwing some ideas out there. I'm sorry you're in a sea of confusion.

You are not expecting too much too soon.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

I don’t know … maybe what everyone else is doing is not polyamory at all and it is still closer to swinging, just we aren’t seeing other people. I am now in a whole sea of confusion.

You could talk to your quad group and ask that question: Is this "closed swinging," where you only play/share sex with the people in this group, or is this "swinging and polyamory," or what? Get clear on what this is, so everyone is the same page.

The love is there from me for the other three but in very different ways. All deep. However, I think everyone else, for one reason or another, can only function as a four. I feel like a hinge in a quad but I can’t see a seperate proper relationship with any of them except my primary, not from my POV, just from how they all seem to act.

It's normal for (you + Annie) and (you + Andy) to be new and just starting out. You only met this year. Those dyads will not be at the same place (you + Harry) are at, since (you + Harry) have been dating longer.

But if you desire polyamory and can't get any alone time in the (you + Annie) and (you + Andy) dyads, it might start to pinch and feel a bit suffocating that (you + Annie) can't even go to a movie on your own without some big quad meeting about it. It's just a movie. Or (you + Andy) can't go get lunch on your own without some big quad meeting about it. It's just lunch.

Should my own head be all that I need to be working on here and everyone else needs to just own and take care of their own feelings?

I don't think you could do their stuff FOR them, even if you wanted to. So work on your own head and your own stuff instead. Ask the others to give clear communication about what they want this to be. Let them own and work on their stuff.

I feel like I can exist within the quad, having my three relationships, but they are not really separate from the other side, because everyone else’s mindsets are in "the four. None of them are entirely making their own decisions, but rather discussing actions across the dyads and quad.

What exactly does this mean? You CAN have separate dates with Harry, Annie and Andy, but (Harry + Annie) can't have separate dates? Something else?

What actions are being discussed across the dyads and in the quad? Some of it might make sense there, like safer sex practices all agree on. Some of it might not belong there.

Or am I just impatient and expecting too much too soon?

What are you impatient to have happen? What are your expectations? It's hard to give you feedback on that if you haven't articulated what behaviors you expect from Harry, Annie and/or Andy.

If you said, "I expect Annie to manage her own calendar and answer me if I ask her out," I would say that's fair. Each person is in charge of their own calendar. If you said, "I expect Annie to put me in her will," I'd tell you that's too much at this stage.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbi]

I think everyone else, for one reason or another, can only function as a four.

Are they familiar with polyamory? Having multiple relationships? It’s possible you have 2 mono couples who are playing with this quad in their inexperienced monogamous mindset, without learning actually how it can and can’t work.

You are here learning, but what about the others? Are they seeking info, reading books, listening to podcasts? Polyamory is NOT monogamy with more people. I have a feeling that’s where things are getting stuck.

Or am I just impatient and expecting too much too soon?

I don’t think you're impatient. I think you are seeing the big picture and are ready to go there and expand these relationships. Your quad mates might still be in the swinging mindset, trying to protect their primary relationships by not getting emotionally involved. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some rules involved, even if unspoken but assumed.

You definitely need to talk about this. It can be done in the quad. Sit at a table and answer these questions as individuals.

What kind of relationship would I like to have with X? (X being each person.) Some might not want to be sexual, some might not want romantic or deep. Some might want romance with 2 people, but friendship and playtime with 2 others, etc.

Can we have individual dyad time to develop these relationships? If not, why not-- FOMO, insecurity, jealousy, control or ownership?

Is what’s wanted more of a closed swinging situation? Does that work for me, and for you?

 

[Albert Ross]

what kind of relationship would I like to have with x? (X being each person)

I like this question a lot, and I like this tool (via the polyamory subreddit) for exploring it: The Non-Escalator Relationship Menu

Being explicit about what you each want your relationships to look like can cut through a lot of confusion and unspoken assumptions.

 

[PolyHolly]

You are in a situation where you can relate to the other three people one-on-one, while they can only relate to each other as a group of four. Does this make them swingers, and you a polyamorist? I don't know. I always thought it was about the emotional connections (or lack thereof), but maybe I'm wrong. One thing I think is that four people can be poly with each other, but still out of sync with each other. Poly is not a guarantee of smooth sailing.

I suppose one concern, and I realise it is likely, is that working as a four if one of the many dynamics fails that’s it for everyone except the primaries, and that’s why I’m not sure this is polyamory. I could do it. I am certain they cannot.

Or maybe the difference is that your feelings for them are very deep, whereas their feelings for each other are not so deep. Thus, they are leaning in the direction of casual sex, while you are leaning in the direction of meaningful romance. Honestly I don't know, I am just throwing some ideas out there. I'm sorry you're in a sea of confusion.

I am in love with each of them. I know that all dyads have said those three words to each other. I can’t speak for how they feel about each other, really, because I’m not them, but from my part I have the solid, protective long-term love with a foundation for my primary, an intense, unnerving yet deeply caring love for Andy, and what feels like a nurturing, more gentle love for Annie. Each and every one of them sets my brain and senses on fire in different ways.

You are not expecting too much too soon.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I suppose time will tell.

H x

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Holly,

I see what you mean about the breakdown of one dyad, leading to the breakdown of the whole quad. You are ready to move beyond that outcome, but the others are not. Is that polyamory? when one breakdown can lead to the breakdown of the whole thing? I don't know.

You see the value in unique kinds of connections between you and all three of the others. They apparently aren't ready to approach each dyad as a unique relationship within itself. I think you are ready for polyamory. The others, perhaps not so much.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[PolyHolly]

You could talk to your quad group and ask that question: Is this "closed swinging," where you only play/share sex with the people in this group, or is this "swinging and polyamory," or what? Get clear on what this is, so everyone is the same page.

I shall clarify with them. We kind of have talked about this. Andy and Annie would prefer a closed quad. Harry and I don’t experience jealousies and started out in this thinking we would continue to swing and everyone would just do as they please. BUT we love what we have with them and don’t want to risk it. Over time, we have come to the conclusion that the quick emotionally-unattached experiences we would gain from swinging would seem flat and worthless compared to what we have with them. Added to that, from my side, I just can’t bear the thought of hurting those that I love. I think I would break it and I’m not prepared to do that. The desire is still there, but less so.

It's normal for (you + Annie) and (you + Andy) to be new and just starting out. You only met this year. Those dyads will not be at the same place (you + Harry) are at, since (you + Harry) have been dating longer.

But if you desire polyamory and can't get any alone time in the (you + Annie) and (you + Andy) dyads, it might start to pinch and feel a bit suffocating that (you + Annie) can't even go to a movie on your own without some big quad meeting about it. It's just a movie. Or (you + Andy) can't go get lunch on your own without some big quad meeting about it. It's just lunch.

I agree with you! In my ideal world I have a nice friendly, mingly quad relationship with them all, but then am able to do things, not just sex, separately with all of them. I know this isn’t what everyone else wants, though. Maybe this is doomed because of that. In my ideal world (not immediately, as I know we would need to grow to this), everyone would just do life stuff with everyone else, interchangeably. Just as you say, a film, a lunch, a shopping trip, even more mundane things.

I don't think you could do their stuff FOR them, even if you wanted to. So work on your own head and your own stuff instead. Ask the others to give clear communication about what they want this to be. Let them own and work on their stuff.

I will, thank you. x

What actions are being discussed across the dyads and in the quad? Some of it might make sense there, like safer sex practices all agree on. Some of it might not belong there.

What I don’t like is that stuff that happens bedroom-wise is discussed in the different dynamics. Surely that’s just for the people involved to discuss. If problems are there, they should sort it themselves without bringing their others into the issue. Everyone seems to be trying to facilitate each other's relationships rather than just focus on their own. I am guilty of this too.

What are you impatient to have happen? What are your expectations? It's hard to give you feedback on that if you haven't articulated what behaviors you expect from Harry, Annie and/or Andy.

I’m just impatient for it all to seem a bit more clear. It’s not so much behaviours. Right now I can’t see how it moves on, other than in this 4some, where from time to time, we drift off a bit, but stay within close proximity to each other. Basically I want an equal time/activity situation with Andy and Annie, but I don’t think I will get that. I reckon I can regularly go out with Annie to shops or coffee etc., but I can’t ever see a time when it would be OK for me and Andy to go have lunch or a walk in the park etc. And again, because of this, I’m not sure this is really what polyamory is about.

If you said, "I expect Annie to manage her own calendar and answer me if I ask her out," I would say that's fair. Each person is in charge of their own calendar. If you said, "I expect Annie to put me in her will," I'd tell you that's too much at this stage.

Yes I do expect that, but I don't think anyone apart from me is making their own decisions.

Galagirl

 

[PolyHolly]

Hi Holly,

I see what you mean about the breakdown of one dyad, leading to the breakdown of the whole quad. You are ready to move beyond that outcome, but the others are not. Is that polyamory? when one breakdown can lead to the breakdown of the whole thing? I don't know.

You see the value in unique kinds of connections between you and all three of the others. They apparently aren't ready to approach each dyad as a unique relationship within itself. I think you are ready for polyamory. The others, perhaps not so much.

Regards,
Kevin T.

Yes! Exactly this. I see them all as beautiful, unique beings in their own right. They see themselves as joined to others and unable to function properly in this way separately. Oh dear!

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Holly,

I see what you mean about the breakdown of one dyad, leading to the breakdown of the whole quad. You are ready to move beyond that outcome, but the others are not. Is that polyamory? when one breakdown can lead to the breakdown of the whole thing? I don't know.

You see the value in unique kinds of connections between you and all three of the others. They apparently aren't ready to approach each dyad as a unique relationship within itself. I think you are ready for polyamory. The others, perhaps not so much.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I shall clarify with them. We kind of have talked about this. Andy and Annie would prefer a closed quad. Harry and I don’t experience jealousies and started out in this thinking we would continue to swing and everyone would just do as they please. BUT we love what we have with them and don’t want to risk it. Over time, we have come to the conclusion that the quick emotionally-unattached experiences we would gain from swinging would seem flat and worthless compared to what we have with them. Added to that, from my side, I just can’t bear the thought of hurting those that I love. I think I would break it and I’m not prepared to do that. The desire is still there, but less so.


I agree with you! In my ideal world I have a nice friendly, mingly quad relationship with them all, but then am able to do things, not just sex, separately with all of them. I know this isn’t what everyone else wants, though. Maybe this is doomed because of that. In my ideal world (not immediately, as I know we would need to grow to this), everyone would just do life stuff with everyone else, interchangeably. Just as you say, a film, a lunch, a shopping trip, even more mundane things.


I will, thank you. x


What I don’t like is that stuff that happens bedroom-wise is discussed in the different dynamics. Surely that’s just for the people involved to discuss. If problems are there, they should sort it themselves without bringing their others into the issue. Everyone seems to be trying to facilitate each other's relationships rather than just focus on their own. I am guilty of this too.

Some poly people are okay with sharing with another partner what goes on in the bedroom, while others prefer more discretion. Whether it's the highs or lows of a sexual experience, everyone is allowed the respect to have their sexuality with one partner kept pretty much a secret. If they don't mind their partner sharing about it with another partner, that is their choice. But this involves the very important concept of CONSENT. Consent is needed in personal relationships.

Everyone should ask their partner, "Is it okay if I do XYZ to your body?" whether it's something actually physical, or not. And that person should feel free to say yes or no. Say, give oral sex. Some days you might want oral sex, and some days you might not. It must be okay with your partner for you agree to it today, but not tomorrow.

It must even be okay to be agreeable to have intercourse, but partway through the session, to change your mind, because your emotions changed-- you got triggered, the baby woke up, you got your period, you got an important phone call, etc., anything that happens to disturb your mood. (I am not saying be an outright "cock tease" all the time, but to just have the autonomy for how you share your body, at any point.)

That's just basic stuff that every teenager should be taught. No one should be coerced to have their body touched at any time, in any way.

But with talking about sex, that's slightly more nuanced. Some couples who are more of the swinger variety think that sex is just casual playtime stuff, so it's open season on kissing and telling with your husband after being with a lover, either to titillate yourselves or to get help. But in more romantic and caring relationships, where the sex is a form of communicating your love, your sex may seem more sacred, something between 2 people and not something to be shared casually, or used to turn someone else on.

And if, as you hint, there are problems with the sex between two, only those two should decide if they want to tell their spouse(s)/partner(s) what the problems are.

The problem is entanglement. You and your husband, in a monogamous culture, can become very entangled, to the point he is your best friend, or even part of you, your "other half," your "soulmate." So, of course, you can tell him anything. But in polyamory, we have to become a bit more independent, because we are sharing ourselves, body and soul, with more than one person. So we have to make space for that, to keep both or all of our partners feeling secure and safe. Does that make sense?

I’m just impatient for it all to seem a bit more clear. It’s not so much behaviours. Right now, I can’t see how it moves on, other than in this 4some, where from time to time, we drift off a bit, but stay within close proximity to each other. Basically I want an equal time/activity situation with Andy and Annie, but I don’t think I will get that. I reckon I can regularly go out with Annie to shops or coffee etc., but I can’t ever see a time when it would be OK for me and Andy to go have lunch or a walk in the park etc. And again, because of this, I’m not sure this is really what polyamory is about.

What "polyamory is all about" is complex, because each person designs their own relationship. (There is even a book about this, called Designer Relationships!) But it's just a fact that each dyad absolutely NEEDS to develop at its own pace. It's okay if you have one kind of love for one person, and another kind of love for another person. Of course you do! Everyone is different. If you have five kids, would you say you have "a relationship" with your kids? No, you would not, because your love for your 10 year old is different from your love for your 3 year old. You have 5 relationships, one with each kid.

Even if you have a pair of identical twins, you have a different relationship with each kid, because they have completely different personalities, likes and dislike, preferences. Even as toddlers, one might be more outgoing, an extrovert, devil-may-care and loves to run and bash around, while the other is more introverted and sensitive and likes books. Why would this be different in a poly quad, just because you're dating 2 members of a couple?

Parents of twins can tend to treat them as one unit, but psychology experts encourage each parent to remember to spend one-on-one time with each child. The same goes for poly dating.

 

[PolyHolly]

It all makes perfect sense to me.

I have explained exactly that using the kids analogy to all a few weeks ago.

In all honesty I never thought I could love more than one person at a time in that way but it’s because of the differences between each that means I can.

I might just have to do a little pause and see how things progress.

 

[kdt26417]

Good luck, I hope that in taking a pause, you are able to have different relationships with different partners.

 

[GalaGirl]

Thank you for more info. FWIW:

What I don’t like is that stuff that happens bedroom-wise is discussed in the different dynamics. Surely that’s just for the people involved to discuss.

Apart from broad safer-sex practices that impact all, yes, TMI details are TMI. Each dyad could have some privacy.

If problems are there, they should sort it themselves without bringing their others into the issue. Everyone seems to be trying to facilitate each other's relationships rather than just focus on their own. I am guilty of this too.

Then pull back and stay in your own lane. Stop trying to facilitate dyads that you are not a part of.

And whatever is going in on other dyad, request that YOUR partners keep your stuff in your dyads and not share details that are TMI with others.

• (you + Harry) stuff is only between (you + Harry)
• (you + Annie) stuff is only between (you + Annie)
• (you + Andy) stuff is only between (you + Andy)

Basically I want an equal time/activity situation with Andy and Annie, but I don’t think I will get that.

You can ASK.

I reckon I can regularly go out with Annie to shops or coffee etc., but I can’t ever see a time when it would be OK for me and Andy to go have lunch or a walk in the park etc.

Because of whom-- Andy? Annie? Harry? What scary thing is going to happen if you go to lunch or a movie with Andy, the same as you would with any other friend?

Galagirl