Mono metamour... struggling

H

Hypoly

New member
Hi! I'm happy to have found this support forum as I'm pretty new to being...partly openly poly (still working on it). So in the fall I met one of my current partners who as it turns out is def my twin soul. We are amazingly deeply in love and it's honestly the most amazing thing ever. I'm very spiritual and I feel like our energies mesh beyond what I've ever felt before.
I am married for 2 years now with the man I've loved for over 10 years. We are so in love and I can't wait to grow old with him :) love him so so much!
So my struggle is with my new partners wife. He has recently came out as poly and his wife believes she is mono through and through. She gets down on herself thinking that means he doesn't love her when he loves her so so much. (We both feel this is a multi-primary situation) she has finally gotten to the point where she understands she is just as important and is loved by him the same. Her and I are friends and we get along. We are in a long distance relationship and he is coming to visit me soon. We have been really good and willing to work with her limits and boundaries which her boundaries are no kissing, no nudity, no sex no touching pretty much. At least for now. So if any of you have had that deep love which I'm sure so many have you know how awful it is to not even be able to kiss the person you love for almost a year. Especially when we are together. I don't want to step on toes and I want to give her time to process but I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm almost at the point of begging her to let us kiss (I won't but I'm just at that point) my other worry is that it will eventually get to a point of resentment which would also be new for me.
It's been hard because since we have been together the relationship has really been about her and what she wants and needs and now I feel as though our feelings def need to be noticed...
Also a side note- I have met her and we like each other but she felt the need to almost show her "ownership"(?) Of her husband like every time he and I went out she would intercept "by accident" but it was every time been though she said she's ok with it. But also Know I am not blind to how this is hard for his wife as well. I def know since my husband is mono too, but is extremely supportive and loving and has given me his Blessing to be open and free to love.
Please help!! I'm hurting and longing so badly to love the person I love so deeply... It's killing me.
H
 
I mean this kindly, ok? It may not be what you want to hear. :eek:

He has recently came out as poly and his wife believes she is mono through and through
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So if any of you have had that deep love which I'm sure so many have you know how awful it is to not even be able to kiss the person you love for almost a year
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You guys have been online dating for a year and he's only NOW just come out as poly to his wife? :confused:

I think your new partner is jumping the gun at minimum. And perhaps he was having an emotional cheating affair with you if he's wife was in the dark about it til recently. She's got tough feelings to process if so -- cheating ones and not just poly things.

He is willing to poly, but does not sound like he actually ABLE to in an ethical way.

To me if there are toggles there is...

  • monoamorous -- want to love 1 sweetie
  • polyamorous -- want to love more than 1 sweetie
  • monogamous -- want the relationship shape to be 1:1 -- just 2 people only.
  • Polygamrous of some sort -- want the relationship shape to be more than 1 person. A V, a network, whatever it is.
  • relationship shape flexible -- can do either.

I def know since my husband is mono too, but is extremely supportive and loving and has given me his Blessing to be open and free to love.
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Your husband is monoamorous and relationship shape flexible. He's willing to change shapes.

His spouse? Not so much. The wife sounds monoamorous (wants her spouse as her sweetie) and monogamous (prefers it to be just them -- hence trying to keep you at arm's length or further )

If he started dating you before squaring thing at home? He's not being kind to her OR you. She sounds like she doesn't really want to be participating in a V. Hence all the "boundaries" -- which to me are not her boundaries.

Boundaries are something she sets up for HER to do and enforce.

Like "I don't lend my things to careless people. (my boundary for my own behavior) If people break my things I lent them, I stop letting them borrow. (Consequence *I* can do.)

Instead she is trying to control the other relationship and how it develops. Sort of like "ostrich" sticking fingers in the ears "lalalalalala this is not happening" stuff. If she doesn't want to be in a poly network? She could say so. Either work it out to be Closed or break it off with the spouse.

If she struggles this badly and he claims to love her? But he wants to poly now? HE could break it off amicably rather than drag her through hell. It's not loving behavior to have this woman suffer like that. :(

Her and I are friends and we get along.
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Neither is it esp friendly behavior. :(

I think you could NOT visit with your LDR person at this time.

It's been hard because since we have been together the relationship has really been about her and what she wants and needs and now I feel as though our feelings def need to be noticed...
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Then address YOUR feelings.

I'm hurting and longing so badly to love the person I love so deeply... It's killing me.
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If participating this way is killing you, you could stop participating. Then instead of misery with no end in sight, it's break up sadness, then you get to HEAL and stop suffering. Both stink, but one stinks less.

I think you could tell him you cannot go on in this wonky way and that you are going to bow out. Because you do not want to contribute to anyone's suffering. Neither your own because this isn't getting anywhere and close contact keeps you pining for more than you can actually have at this time. And that is killing you.

Or her suffering -- because she doesn't really want to be here doing this, and the origins of this relationship (while "twin soul" for you) might be more like (emotional cheating affair) to her.

He can sort out his home life FIRST.

Then look you up if/when he's actually free to poly-date. Then the miserable ends for you at least even if they keep going with the weird.

You don't have to keep struggling with this.

Galagirl
 
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Thank you for your reply. I don't think I made it clear- I'm sorry- his wife has always seen that he has a lot of love to give than just to her and it's always been understood but he's never had another partner or knew the word for it. I made it seem like he JUST came out to her and I'm sorry for that!
Sorry for the lack of proper terminology lol I'm trying! :p
So I put that on the table a while ago and she insisted absolutely no, no don't do that. She says she has to just work on herself. Honestly I would go through the pain of not kissing etc if it means being with him. I just don't think we could break it off...but she is well aware I would force myself to leave if it would help her.
 
Hello Hypoly,

It sounds like you are struggling with the restrictions his wife is placing on you and him. And while I can appreciate the fact that she is mono through and through, I am surprised at how much ground her restrictions cover. Basically, you are allowed to do two things with him, look at him and talk to him. You're not even allowed to hug him because that would be touching him. And you have been laboring under these restrictions for almost a year? I for one would not be able to stand it.

And the sad thing is, you could beg her to let you kiss him, but she would probably say no and dig her heels in even deeper. This relationship has been all about her for a long time now. It's about time your feelings started to matter.

I want to say that it's time for you to have a long talk with her, but I'm afraid that if you did that, she would get angry and dig her heels in even deeper. About your only option right now is to continue to endure the restrictions she has imposed, even if the pain is too much to bear. It might help you a little to vent here, but for the most part you'll have to continue to endure the pain. I'm very sorry to have to say that.

The one hopeful thing here is that maybe, she might do some of the work on herself that is necessary before she can lighten the load of restrictions. What concerns me, though, is that it's been almost a year. By now she should have made some progress. But, maybe the progress she's made so far is invisible -- under the surface. To hope is all we can do. You don't have a lot of options.

So sorry you are going through this, I hope you get some relief soon.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Consider putting off having him come visit you in person. Why? Because if he visits you, and there is any attraction, the rules she imposed are gonna get broken. You and he can have all the goodwill, good intentions in the world to honor those rules. But he’s there, you’re there, it’s romantic and emotional. You gonna touch and kiss at least. There are rules that are just about guaranteed to be broken - and this situation is an example of one of them. And then when you two inevitably fail, you have to decide if you can be honest or if lying is on the table. That decision too has no good implications for any of you.

I try not to set boundaries that cannot be followed. I try not to set up partners for failure. Consider asking him to tell her those rules are very unlikely to be followed to the letter (much less the spirit). So maybe he doesn’t visit you soon which is a bummer. Have you considered she may be setting you two up so she can ask him to dump you as the price of breaking the rules? (I’m not saying this is deliberate or conscious on her part.)

Really I urge you to put off in person meeting until the boundaries can be determined by all of you in good faith, and with the understanding of human frailty.
 
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Thank you for more details.

I still think he/they jumped the gun. All this work on herself/himself? Could have been done before he started poly dating and you arrived on to the scene.

VISIT

I still think you could put off the trip. Don't tempt fate. If you are not in the same room it's easier not to cheat on the "no touching" agreements. Even if you don't like them at this time you are bound by them. Neither you nor hinge sound like you spoke up about not following them any more to give her a heads up.

You could tell them both the same -- "I no longer agree to keep these agreements about no touching. If there is a visit, there will be touching from me. I'm willing to go slow, but not nothing." You can speak up for your side of the V.

Do not visit in person until he has also told her "I am no longer able to keep these agreements -- the no kissing, no hugging, no touching etc. I've honored them for a year. I am letting you know that I will no longer be keeping them. I don't want to cheat on agreements and these are not keepable any more." And give it some time for it to sink it and for them to process that.

SUGGESTION TO MOVE IT FORWARD

A year of obliging is enough. Because if she really doesn't want to be doing this? She really has no reason to work on herself. NOT working on herself and maintaining the restrictions works for her. Even if it does not work for him or for you.

As for him? If he's not speaking up for this side of a V for a year? Maybe that works for him. He might be operating from "Well, I don't get all I want but at least I get something of a V with Hypoly and my wife. Which is better than zero V at all." Maybe he doesn't like that but it works enough for him. He gets access to both.

And then the one this ISN'T working for is you. Works enough for her, works enough for him, does not work for you. It's like you get left holding the bag.

Maybe going over this list helps. Right now everything is "red" -- no go, STOP.

http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf

Well, in the interest of "going slow but still moving forward" which ones can be green now for the next 3 mos? Then in 3 mos, add more. (Or pick your own time frame -- I don't know how slow you want to go. But you sound like going ZERO is making you crazy.)

At least then you are making a suggestion for HOW to move it forward. If they cannot suggest anything better? Could go with your suggetion them. Rather than leaving things forever stuck.

I also don't know if this helps you. This is supposed to be co-primary. You have rights.

https://www.morethantwo.com/relationshipbillofrights.html

I don't know if this helps him any have the talk with his wife:

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf

LAST RESORT

  • For you? If nobody has a better suggestion and they don't want to do yours?
  • If after a year, the hinge isn't going to stand up for the (him + you) side of the V relationship?
  • He's not going to step up and this doesn't work for you any more?

Then as the last resort you could bow out. You control your "staying-ness" and what you will and will not put up with. Can't make her do anything to work on herself. Can't do anything to make him step it up. You CAN control where you decide to be.

Because talk about how much he loves you and how this is gonna be co-primary is one thing. Actions to back that up are another thing. Right now, it's sounding like "all talk and no show." Plus lots of couple privilege.

I think you could bow out. He can look you up when he has it more together and they have actually done the necessary work. When everyone has "worked on themselves" and have become ABLE to poly.

Otherwise it is like they jumped the gun, but the one who pays the emotional price tag is you. That is not fair.

SELF CARE

Honestly I would go through the pain of not kissing etc if it means being with him. I just don't think we could break it off...but she is well aware I would force myself to leave if it would help her.
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You would force yourself to leave it if it would help her relieve her suffering. But you would not leave so it could relieve your own suffering? So this can stop feeling like it is killing you? Why is her well being more important to you than your own well being? :confused:

I think you could do your own self care, and let others take care of doing theirs. Not like being selfish and not caring anything at all about others. But like "everyone put your own oxygen mask on" like in a plane crash. You cannot go so selfless you only care about others and do self neglect to yourself. :(

"Selfish" and "selfless" are the unbalanced ends of the see-saw. One is "Mememe. All about me, neglect other people." The other is "Themthemthem! All about them, neglect me."

The balanced place of "self full" in the middle is "I meet my own needs first so I don't burn out or run dry. Then I can joyfully gift my help to meeting other people's reasonable and rational needs. I care about myself and others in a balanced way."

Never touching a partner EVER? That is not reasonable nor rational.

If they don't want to try your suggestion and have none of their own? Parting for now might be the needed thing for your health and well being. There's no law that says you cannot get back together with him later after he sorts out his marriage stuff.

If you speak up for this side of the V and bow out to give them some space to sort things out? And you find out he's like a lump on a log doing nothing? He never really planned to speak up for this side of the V? That hurts to learn. That you are the only one speaking up for this side of the V. :(

But then you can clearly see this was a "going nowhere thing" and you are better out of it sooner rather than later.

Win for you either way. (Things either get solved) or (you are out of the "going nowhere" thing.) You suffering can end.

I think this whole thing stinks, BTW. I am sympathetic. Getting involved with people who say they are ready to poly but really are not? Is really rough. But you don't have to agree to be the one left holding the bag forever. You count too.

Galagirl
 
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Hi!

I wanted to say I was in a similar-ish position about seven years ago. I fell in love with a friend. He and his wife were close for about four years then we moved they came down to visit us and we fell super super hard. My boyfriend and his wife opened up their relationship so he and I could date. And I agreed to limits that I would never agree to under normal circumstances to help my friend feel that I was a safe person and that I would and he would respect their relationship. But we were always on the same page about these limits going away over time. After we fell in love for about 4 month she read all of our communication... or was welcome too.. I don't know if she read it all. The first time we visited each other sex wasn't on the table, we didn't sleep together but we could kiss and cuddle and make out. The 2nd time I visited we could have sex but no oral... anyway a lot of stuff I wouldn't normally agree too, but I loved these people and I admired their relationship and I was willing to give it a shot. It is also very much a secondary relationship. If my relationship with him was fucking up the relationship he had with his wife? I would bow out.

I love him through and through. And after about a year we had most limits off. And now after seven years and them being done having kids and him getting a vasectomy we are going to stop using condoms. Which is wonderfully exciting for us.

My heart would have been shattered into a 100 pieces and my clit would have been a foot long if I couldn't touch him for a year. I'm willing to go slow. But that is just to painful.
 
I knew a couple who was a sort-of countercase to that; call 'em Joan & Dave. For years, Joan allowed Dave to "date" women -- yes, one of the reasons I'm sensitized to the term :rolleyes: -- which never seemed to get any further than meeting up at Starbucks for mild public flirtation. Joan basically dangled the possibility that she'd let Dave get more romantically (& then maybe eventually sexually) involved with someone else as soon as he found someone Joan could "feel comfortable about." If Joan didn't like the progress (or lack thereof), Dave would break it off totally with the woman. Joan & Dave would have a tiff (before, after, maybe both), reconcile, pronounce themselves re-bonded, then the cycle would repeat.

At first I thought this was a sane way to go about it, but after a couple of years it got really old. Joan dangled hope at Dave but always keeping it just out of reach. And Dave isn't an idiot, so certainly figured this out before I did.

I saw this as not emotionally responsible or mature, & certainly disrespecting the women they carrot-dangled with hope of an actual relationship. But maybe that's just me.
 
Not just you, Ravenscroft. It IS carrot dangling. And it feels sucky/disrespectful to the "carrot person" who doesn't get to have a voice in their own relationship with the hinge. I see it as the hinge's responsibility to tell their spouse "I love you, but this area of my life is not yours to control or decide. We can agree to practice open/poly and talk about our agreements. But you cannot micromanage my other relationships."

I'm in the camp of "date me properly from the beginning." If the potential has preparation work still to do? They could not offer themselves as a dating partner prematurely then. Go do it rather than jumping the gun. Do the work THEN poly date. If a hinge is so enmeshed with the spouse that they allow the spouse to micromanage their other relationships? I'm not interested. Reasonable agreements around having/not having more kids, BC, safer sex, and all that? Ok. I can get on board with reasonable agreements. Telling me when I can hug or kiss or whatever? No, thanks. Not reasonable.

Hypoly, if you date other potentials? You might include "Do you and your other partners have any agreements that might affect me?" in those early dates.

Because if you find another one that has a bunch of restrictions that won't allow your side of the V develop naturally at its own pace and won't respect that your side of the V has its own things to deal with?

You can choose to skip getting more involved early on rather than get emotionally attached and then struggle later. The hinge might be ok accepting whatever terms (reasonable or not) just to be "let out of the house" but YOU don't have to date/live like that.

Galagirl
 
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Hypoly,

I had been in a similar situation with your boyfriend's wife so I have a measure of sympathy for her, but no matter how frightening the premise may be, we can only set boundaries to things pertaining to us: our bodies, our personal space, our time. So it's wrong to set vetoes on what you and your boyfriend can or cannot do, and this sort of micromanagement is essentially controlling behaviour, which is never a good thing.

I have not always done things too well, and had placed some restrictions on my partner's relationship with his girlfriend, but these were more around logistics: to meet with her x times a week, etc., and only while going through the dreaded poly hell phase and a serious breach of trust due to NRE / poor communication. Nowadays he always does ask if he wants to schedule with her, but I always tell him to do whatever and whenever they like (informing him of prior arrangements). But even through my worst, I made sure to never, never disrupt or intrude during their dates, and what they did between the two of them was really just none of my business, even if it hurt me one way or another to know of afterwards.

It's all right to say "I am not comfortable with this, could you please wait before going forward?" because, like I said: to a relationship newly opening up your partner's intimacy with another person can be devastating if there's not enough of a mental framework to support it. It takes work. It takes time. If everyone shows good will, and help foster trust and a sense of security, it allows for better times up ahead for everyone involved. I understand you are struggling, but try to understand that your strong emotions for her husband can flare up a terror in her so indelible that it paralyses her entirely – hence the need to control all that she can.

To sum up: this is her stuff to deal with mostly. But what you can do from your end while you are still determined to put an effort into all this, is to show what measure of sympathy you can, and try to communicate that however strongly you feel for him, it does not undermine or threaten their relationship.

I hope things work our for you all.
 
Carrot dangling and women interfering with my relationship is why I do not date poly men with nesting partners.
 
If you two are sitting around waiting for her to change her mind you are only fooling yourselves.

I am in a similar situation with my LDR. I found this out a couple months ago when I saw her. My feeling is that, by placing his restrictions, he is hoping I lose interest. We had a long talk during which I indicated that I need a grown up relationship. We still talk every day, but I know it's not going anywhere.
 
Dagferi said:
Carrot dangling and women interfering with my relationship is why I do not date poly men with nesting partners.
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Do you really think it's fair to make that sort of generalization? You have two nesting partners. Would there be lots of drama if you started dating someone new?

My nesting partner never had a say in my relationships, nor me in hers. I know plenty of poly people where it's not an issue.

I get what you are saying, but I would qualify it with "without doing my due diligence".
 
Dagferi said:
Carrot dangling and women interfering with my relationship is why I do not date poly men with nesting partners.
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This is my experience, also. My experience was a little different from 'Joan and Dave.' In my case, 'Joan' was absolutely fine with Dave having all the sex and girlfriends he wanted--but he wasn't supposed to fall in love. (Except nobody ever spelled out that rule.)

And she didn't officially put restrictions on anyone--she just made life so awkward that I left him to it. Ie, the Silent Veto, a move I've seen being pulled by poly women. As a result, I'm with Dagferi. I'm not terribly concerned if someone feels that's an unfair generalization. I'm more concerned about not wasting my time with people who I see from experience are at high risk for playing games.

To the OP, I'm sorry you hurt. But the fact is, this is her marriage, her husband, it sounds like the ground rules have been shifted on her from what she agreed to.

Your attitude is patronizing toward her:

We have been really good and willing to work with her limits and boundaries
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Sure--and you're doing it with an attitude of moral superiority and the understanding that you fully intend to have sex with her husband eventually...no matter how hard it is on her.

And this is my other problem. You claim to be very spiritual and to understand this is hard for her. And yet you keep right on keeping on, doing a thing that you know is painful to someone else.


And you do it while patronizing her and acting as if you are the more enlightened people.

I'm with the others--cancel the planned visit.
 
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vinsanity0 said:
Do you really think it's fair to make that sort of generalization? You have two nesting partners. Would there be lots of drama if you started dating someone new?

My nesting partner never had a say in my relationships, nor me in hers. I know plenty of poly people where it's not an issue.

I get what you are saying, but I would qualify it with "without doing my due diligence".
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I have experienced a nesting partner MULTIPLE TIMES put these sort of asinine restrictions upon relationships I was in. Once is a fluke. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a trend.

Butch has had several other partners. Nope never have I put restrictions on any relationship he has been in. He is a grown up amd I trust his judgement. The only thing I asked was please keep my sexual health in mind. Meaning if he decided to go bareback with a partner that he let me know so I can make decisions for myself.

I do not care who my husbands date. And they can take the relationship escalator as far as they want. I just do not want my space invaded or be forced to socialize with people not of my choosing.

After a few dips in the poly pool Butch decided he isn't interested.

Murf is in his own words 110% monogamous and has no interest in other partners. If he changes his mind he is free to do so.
 
I agree with Dagferi's assessment and stance.

I have not forbid my partners from doing anything and I don't care how far they take their relationships. I'd even be willing to consider sharing a communal home with metamours if everybody wanted it.

Both arms of my vee have chosen at this time not to pursue other partners.

Like Murph, TheCerpent thinks it's too much effort. He puts his time to gaming groups and friends because he likes Dungeons and Dragons and video games.

The only rule I ever asked to impose were clear STD tests before sex and please make sure that cleaning chores at home don't all get left on me since we both work full time and parent.

Awpti has decided not to pursue anybody else because of limited time constraints and the logistics problems of handling current relationships. He's also said he doesn't have a need for any other partners.

Both Awpti and TheCerpent say they are happy with their relationship with me.

I stopped looking and trying for other relationships after this last year. I don't want to convert a mono person and I don't want the controls placed on me by metamours when I interact with poly men as has been my experience.
 
I'm with Dagferi, though not for the same reasons. I've never dated a man who has a nesting partner, and it would take an incredible guy for me to change that. But I have had a very negative experience with a metamour, and I've had negative experiences with the majority of the other women I've known in my adult life. In all cases, it's been about guys; women have thought I "stole" their men (even though in most cases they weren't even dating the men I supposedly stole, they were just interested in them, which I didn't have any way of knowing), or wanted a guy I was involved with (including my husband, after he and I got married), or just plain decided I was a whore because I get along better with guys.

I have trust issues anyway, but it's far more difficult for me to trust women than men. That's why I prefer to minimize contact with metamours in general, and am very unlikely to ever date a guy with a nesting partner, because then I would end up on her "turf," and that wouldn't be a comfortable situation. (Another reason I don't date guys with nesting partners is that I can't bring partners to my home, so either I see my partners at their homes or we would have to find somewhere else to get together.)

My husband is also monogamous, but if he weren't, I wouldn't ask him for any agreements or restrictions that aren't already in place for *my* other relationships (e.g. no other partners at our home).
 
First off, I'm surprised so many people are unfamiliar with the expression "fair to say".

Secondly, I'm getting the impression women are less capable of "sharing". If so, why do they agree to a non-monogamous model (the ones who cause drama)?
 
Sometimes they agree because they believe--or know from past experience--that their male partner will either leave or cheat on them if they *don't* agree.

Sometimes they agree because *they* want to have multiple partners, even though they can't handle the idea of their male partner having other partners.

Sometimes they *think* they'll be okay with it, but when it becomes reality, they can't handle it.

Sometimes it's a personality conflict between the woman and one of her metamours (as was partly the case in my negative experience, though the personality conflict wasn't the only factor).

I don't think women are necessarily less capable of sharing. I think that *in general*, a man who can't handle his partner having other partners is less likely to agree to poly in the first place, and is more likely to say "I don't want to do this" if he does agree and then realizes he can't handle it. In my experience, as a gross generalization, most of the men I've known men tend to be blunter and more willing to flat out say they don't like something or someone, or aren't willing to do something, while most of the women I've known in the past are more likely to backstab women they don't like, to engage in passive-aggressive/manipulative tactics, and to sabotage other relationships.

(Please note that I'm using gendered language because the discussion seems to be specifically about relationships between men and women, and between female metamours. And in case I wasn't clear enough in the last paragraph, much of what I've said is generalizations and does not apply to everyone of whatever gender.)
 
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