My introduction: not a nice story

[Monkfish]

Hello all..
First of all, I'm not native English speaking, so please forgive me some expressions.

I'm 38 yo and have been married for 12 years, having 3 great kids. I've always been happy in my marriage and love my wife very much. Even in the more diffcult periods where she suffered from a burnout, I was a strong support for her although it was not easy for her and me.

Last year, I was also having some difficulties at work, being a medical professional of which all the collegues in the neighbourhood retiring the one after the other. In that period I met online by accident another woman. I really wasn't looking for her. And for the first time in 15 years since I met my wife, I fell in love again. I NEVER fall in love very easily, I guess it's been the third time in my life or so. I like to watch other women, but never ever am thinking of being involved with them sexually or romantically. The pressure of my work and the new love I have developped make me fall in a deep depression. I really have such strong feelings but at that time, the concept of polyamory is completely unknown to me. Just the thought of having to choose one of those two ladies makes me sick. I dare not talk about it with my wife and first I try to keep the conversations with my girlfriend superficial and non-romantics, but it's just ridiculous since we're so into each other. We don't meet in real life, because she's UK based and I'm EU mainland. That's a big boundary. In that period, the paradigma of monogamism makes me think I really have to choose between them, which depresses me even more because I really love my wife and my girlfriend.

Finally, I tell my wife I fancy another one at a weekend trip. She admitted she has strong feelings for a collegue too and can understand that, but that she thinks this love is a projection of something unfulfilled into her and our relationship and can handle this and asks me to do the same. The next few weeks, I snap completely and can't work anymore, having a very very difficult time (also financially). I have permission to meet her from my wife, but she asks me not to do anything I might regret, we are strictly monogamous. So I book a trip to the UK, my wife thinks this will help to see she's just another person and I have imagined too much. But our meeting up is a complete disaster: I completely loose myself and cheat on my wife. I know this forum isn't about cheating but please bear with me.

I know this is wrong but it was like unevitable at the moment. I was under severe antidepressants at the moment. It dulled my senses and my consciousness. I become even more ill after that trip and immediately confess at home what I've done. My wife replies she can't believe what I've done and schedules a meeting with a therapist, which immediately plan a grounding trip and therapy plan for me. This almost immediately separates my wife from me so we both can cool down a bit. I quit with those medication too and in those 2 weeks, I start to realise what I've done...

It's a bit fuzzy what happened then, but in the end I end all things with my girlfriend, although she says I'm the love of her life and she wants me to come back anytime. Out of respect of my wife -better late than never- I do not have contact with her again.

My wife, a very wonderful person, forgives me and starts working with me to ease my job. I really conquer my job difficulties, but I still miss my girlfriend. I take this as the punishment for my evil deeds, which I am really ashamed for. It's been over 9 months now.

A few weeks ago, my wife comes back from a workshop (she's following an education for coaching) and starts talking about polyamory (yes, now we're finally on topic). I heard of the concept before but didn't really dig into it because I thought my wife was completely opposed to it and it didn't "call" me since I associated it with swinging. She had the assignment of her teacher to "work on her feelings towards that collegue" (now former-collegue). I give her permission, but she says she don't want to be involved, but am a bit surprised as why she put the subject "polyamory" on the table. I guess she has to grow into it.

Since she did, I revived completely. I feel alive again, because I thought I would be jealous and am not (yet), and I am more open towards other people, including our kids which I started to neglect a bit. It's strange, because we didn't make any agreements or regulations, I only said I wouldn't mind another relation of my wife with the former collegue, if she promised she took care for our relationship too. Perhaps because this opens a door for my girlfriend?

I know, I did horrible things and perhaps I permantly have blown thing between my wife, my (former) girlfriend and me. I disgust myself of the way I treated both my wife and my girlfriend. It's been a dark night of the soul and I really am grateful I feel a lot better than in those depressed days.

We really want to explore a bit more about polyamorism, because one thing is clear: I love my wife very much and decided that I will not be the one ending our relationship. If it turns out to be she wants to stay in a monogamous relationship, I know it will affect me and grieve me, but I signed up with her on that basis and I really want to honour those commitments now I regained my strength and are open to renegociate them.

I have plenty of questions and so on, but I'll ask them in the appropriate topics...

 

[Leetah]

Welcome Monkfish.

New Relationship Energy (falling in love) can be powerful stuff. I felt disturbingly desperate when I fell in love after decades of marriage. I couldn't blame my husband for being hurt and angry but I also couldn't stop being in love. It was awful. It took a year of daily crying jags before I got on anti-depressants. Thankfully my husband decided he was ok with my other love so things have reached a kind of balance.

I hope they do for you as well.
Leetah

 

[Monkfish]

Thanks

It's a bit the same, I cried a lot (I never cried before)... I also never thought I ever cheat on my wife. I don't fall in love often and never twice at a time...

So yeah, you can say it was powerful...

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Monkfish,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

It sounds like you have had a difficult journey, on your way to discovering poly. I strongly encourage you to continue reading and posting on this forum, you will learn a lot here, and can help others as well. Also, there's a couple of things I think you should read: first, the web page Poly FAQ, and second, the book "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino. Have your wife read those with you if she's willing, so that the two of you can discuss. And for "extra credit," you might want to look into the book "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá. For my own part, I hope you can repair things with your wife and your girlfriend. Let me know if I can help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Monkfish]

Thanks for the welcome...

 

[kdt26417]

Glad you're here.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

Some people fall in "love" easily - others do not. For those of us that don't it is an overwhelming experience. It seems to add such a sense of urgency to the situation.

I have been "in love" twice - with my husband and my boyfriend - 19 years apart.

Although I am bisexual and have had relations and relationships with women in the meantime, these are the only two that have "stuck".

 

[Magdlyn]

Hello all,

First of all, I'm not native English speaking, so please forgive me some expressions.

I took the liberty to lightly edit your post, for clarity about tense, mainly. (I'm an editor so it's what I do, haha)

I'm 38 years old, and have been married for 12 years; we have 3 great kids. I've always been happy in my marriage and I love my wife very much. Even in the more difficult periods where she suffered from a burnout, I was a strong support for her, although it was not easy for us.

Last year, I was also having some difficulties at work, being a medical professional where all my colleagues in the neighborhood were retiring, one after another.

In that period I met another woman online by accident. I really wasn't looking for her. And for the first time in 15 years since I met my wife, I fell in love again. I NEVER fall in love easily; I guess it's the third time in my life, or so. I like to look at other women, but never thought of being involved with them sexually or romantically.

The pressure at work, and the new love I had developed, made me fall into a deep depression. (I really had such strong feelings for her, but at that time, the concept of polyamory was completely unknown to me.)

Just the thought of having to choose one of those two ladies made me sick. I did not dare talk about it with my wife, and first I tried to keep the conversations with my girlfriend superficial and non-romantic, but it was just ridiculous since we were so into each other.

We didn't meet in real life, because she's UK based and I'm on the EU mainland. That's a big boundary. In that period, the paradigm of monogamy made me think I had to choose between the women, which depressed me even more, because I really loved my wife and my girlfriend.

Finally, I told my wife I fancied another person, while we were on a weekend trip. She admitted she had strong feelings for a colleague too (!) and could understand that, but that she thinks this love is a projection of something unfulfilled in her, and in our relationship. She thought she could handle this, and wanted me to do the same.

In the next few weeks, I snapped completely and couldn't work anymore, and had a very very difficult time (also suffering financially). I had permission from my wife to meet the other woman, but she asked me not to do anything I might regret. We were strictly monogamous.

So I booked a trip to the UK. My wife thought this would help me to see that she's just another person, and I had imagined too much. But our meet up was a complete disaster: I completely lost myself and cheated on my wife. I know this forum isn't about cheating, but please bear with me.

No worries. We hear a lot of cheating stories here. Sometimes that has to happen before we learn about poly, and learn how to date more than one ethically.

I knew this was wrong but it was, like, inevitable at the moment. I was taking strong antidepressants. They dulled my senses and my consciousness. I become even more ill after that trip, and immediately confessed at home what I'd done. My wife replied that she couldn't believe what I'd done, and scheduled a meeting with a therapist.

The therapist immediately planned a "grounding trip" and therapy plan for me. This almost immediately separated me from my wife, so we could both cool down a bit. I quit with those medications too. In those 2 weeks, I started to realize what I'd done.

So, on your therapist's advice, you went away on a trip by yourself, to ground yourself, for 2 weeks.

It's a bit fuzzy what happened then, but I ended things with my girlfriend. She said I was the love of her life and she wanted me to come back anytime. Out of respect for my wife, better late than never, I did not have contact with her again.

Then you returned to your home, wife and kids...

My wife, a very wonderful person, forgave me, and started working with me to ease my job stress. I conquered my job difficulties, but I was still missing my girlfriend. I took this as punishment for my "evil deeds," which I am really ashamed about.

It's been 9 months now, since all that happened.

A few weeks ago, my wife came back from a workshop (she's studying for coaching) and starts talking about polyamory (yes, now we're finally on topic). I had heard of the concept before, but hadn't really dug into it, because I thought my wife was completely opposed to it, and it didn't "call" to me, since I associated it with swinging.

She had the assignment from her teacher...

Her therapist, or her teacher at coaching school? I assumed sports coaching, but maybe it's more like a life coach course of study?

...to "work on her feelings towards that colleague" (now a former-colleague). I had given her permission, but she said she didn't want to be involved. I was a bit surprised as to why she put the subject "polyamory" on the table. I guess she had to grow into it.

When she did, I revived completely. I felt alive again, because I thought I would be jealous and am not (yet), and I am more open towards other people, including our kids, which I had started to neglect a bit.

I am sure you did, what with falling in love with "forbidden fruit," struggling at work, falling into a deep depression, and taking meds which dulled your mind! You neglected your job and your family, in your confusion. It almost sounds like a general mid-life crisis.

It's strange, because we didn't make any agreements or regulations. I only said I wouldn't mind if my wife had a relationship with the former colleague, if she promised she to take care of our relationship too. Perhaps it's because this opens a door for my girlfriend?

I know, I did horrible things, and perhaps I have permanently blown things between my wife, my (former) girlfriend and me. I am disgusted at myself for the way I treated both my wife and my girlfriend. It's been a dark night of the soul, and I really am grateful I feel a lot better now, than in those depressed days.

We want to explore a bit more about polyamory, because one thing is clear: I love my wife very much, and I decided that I would not be the one to end our relationship. If it turns out to be she wants to stay in a monogamous relationship, I know it will affect me and grieve me, but I signed up with her on that basis, and I really want to honour those commitments, now that I have regained my strength, and am open to renegotiate them.

I have plenty of questions and so on, but I'll ask them in the appropriate topics.

I hear you have great guilt for having cheated. I think you could begin by forgiving yourself and stop beating yourself up. Your wife forgave you already!

Your wife also had or has a crush on someone else. It's extremely common, almost universal, for humans to crush on, lust for, or to fall completely in love with, people other than their assumed monogamous partner. Monogamy is not natural for humans (or most animals in general)! It doesn't make you evil to crush on someone else.

As for the "evil deed" of having cheated, once, that is also common. Now you can give yourself permission to move on. Your wife is interested in polyamory. Maybe you are. Maybe your gf would be too! You and your wife could both explore an open relationship. Maybe she could start something with that colleague of hers, and you could explore a long distance relationship with your UK based gf.

Just because you and your wife vowed to be mono when you married, does not mean you can't renegotiate that agreement now. People change and grow. We do not have to live forever with a promise we made as a naive 20 something person. Really. It's OK. Don't bend yourself into a pretzel just to "please your wife." Be your authentic self. Honor yourself and have integrity. Cramming yourself back into the mono box could cause your depression to resurface. Do you want to live depressed for the rest of your life, just to "please" your wife? She doesn't own you, or have a right to control you.

Life is long and people grow and change. Please do read those books Kevin recommended. Sex at Dawn explains how humans are meant to be promiscuous. We were, back in the mists of time, and some traditional societies have never changed, and still are! Forced monogamy was born out of the necessity of patriarchal economics. Society is changing, women have more freedom and rights, spouses do not own each other's bodies. The modern poly movement is a part of these changes.

As a reflection of autonomy, in polyamory we agree that each individual is in charge of how they share their time and bodies, as long as everything is agreed upon and ethical. Therefore, we use the word "consent," instead of "permission" between partners. A parent or owner gives permission. An equal partner "consents."

 

[Monkfish]

Thanks for the comments.

It's indeed a life coach, not sport coach teaching.

Yesterday was a very very heavy rollercoaster day. Once a month, we both take a day off and spend time while the kids are at school. We went to the (private) sauna and talked about it. We ended up having sex several times and it seemed we both agreed on the situation that had to come. She repeated she misses her former colleague and me my girlfriend. We had dinner and talked it over. She just had problems with my girlfriend since I cheated on her and asked time to get good with the idea. I told her I hadn't problems with her colleague and she said she would contact him even today (so yesterday).

That evening I took our youngest to an event and when I came back after 2 hours, something happened. She completely crawled back. It has something to do with our unfulfilled parts in ourselves etc etc... It's so confusing.

We had a conversation and I think she's not ready yet. She had problems with if my girlfriend wanted kids, with the inequality in relationships ("she would be a concubine") and I think the lability of me since my depression of which someone could take advantage. I had a vasectomy, so I don't see a big issue, both know that, but we all know it can be reversed and it has been talking about that both by my wife and girlfriend (for our 4th, my girlfriend has no kids yet).

9 months ago, my girlfriend even spoke about being a throuplet, so I know it's discussable with her.

I just wonder if my wife had a bad conversation with her colleague while I was away... And had a visit of the Green Monster.

Jane is right, I do not fall in love easily so it's probably too overwhelming for me compared to others...

I am grateful for my wife who is the woman of my life so I don't want to lose her...

I'm reading Opening Up right now...

 

[Magdlyn]

I am glad you and your wife took a day off together.

By the way, our guidelines suggest you pick nicknames for any partners, potential partners, or metamours, for ease of understanding, and for more respect than just saying my wife, my girlfriend, my wife's boyfriend, etc.

Thanks for the comments.

It's indeed a life coach, not sport coach teaching.

That makes more sense! I think it's good to explore the parameters of polyamory, if you're going to be a life coach, since this relationship shape is becoming more and more popular.

Yesterday was a very very heavy rollercoaster day. Once a month, we both take a day off and spend time together, while the kids are at school.

We went to a (private) sauna and talked about it. We ended up having sex several times. It seemed we both agreed on the situation that had to come. She repeated she misses her former colleague, and I miss my girlfriend. We had dinner and talked it over.

She had problems with my girlfriend, since I cheated on her, and asked for time to get good with the idea.

Trust does need to be rebuilt after cheating, even if you're forgiven. What actions are needed to make her trust you again? Be specific. Just time? Or actually doing certain things?

I told her I had no problems with her colleague and she said she would contact him that day (so, yesterday).

That evening I took our youngest to an event, and when I came back after 2 hours, something happened. She completely crawled back. It has something to do with our unfulfilled parts in ourselves etc., etc. It's so confusing.

That's the poly rollercoaster. It takes time to get to a good place. If open communication is not something you're used to, it can take time to adjust to the Truth.

We had a conversation. I don't think she's ready yet. She had problems with my girlfriend wanting kids, with the inequality in relationships ("she would be a concubine") and I think with my lability, since my depression, of which someone could take advantage.

I had a vasectomy, so I don't see a big issue [with pregnancy]. We both know that, but we all know it can be reversed. It has been talked about by both my wife (for our 4th child) and by my girlfriend, who has no kids yet.

OK, hold on. You and your wife may decide to reverse your vasectomy and have a 4th kid? With all this polyamory discussion going on, and causing stress, and your recent depression, this is probably not a great time to get pregnant.

And having kids with your gf, when you've only met her once, is a terrible idea. That concept should be much in the future, if ever. Much negotiation, practice with poly, your gf moving nearby, or vice versa, etc., would need to happen first! And you have 3 kids already. How would you be able to be an involved father to another child from another person outside your marriage? What about the legal ramifications? I suggest you just table that idea for now and for at least 2 years.

9 months ago, my girlfriend even spoke about being a throuplet, so I know it's discussable with her.

What does "throuplet" mean to her, or to you, or to your wife? A triad (some people call it a throuple), is a poly configuration where 3 people are involved with each other romantically, usually sexually. In your case, this would first of all require that your gf and wife be bisexual. Then, they'd have to like and trust each other. Then they'd have to be attracted to each other. Then, they'd have to share you with no envy or jealousy. Then, you would all have to work out the rights of primaries, or secondaries, or co-primaries. And that's just the tip of the iceberg in a triad.

Much more common in poly is a V. In this case, you are the hinge, and your wife and gf are the arms. And if your wife has a bf, it would take an N shape. If your gf was also dating someone else, say, a local person, it would end up looking something like a star, also called a network or tangle.

I just wonder if my wife had a bad conversation with her colleague while I was away... And had a visit of the Green Monster.

Ask her.

Jane is right, I do not fall in love easily so it's probably too overwhelming for me compared to others.

I am grateful for my wife, who is the woman of my life. I don't want to lose her.

I'm reading Opening Up right now.

Good. Much reading, research, and discussion needs to happen before either of you get involved someone else. One of them might get hurt, or be further hurt (your gf). I suggest your wife does not start something deeper with her coworker until you and she work out more of the kinks in both of your approaches to poly, and rebuild the trust, as you mentioned. Just your lack of jealousy isn't enough, if she's still not on board with your dating others.

 

[Monkfish]

I agree completely on the pregnancy for both. It's nothing I want to discuss already too because it's so surreal right now and early too. Both Eve (=my wife) and Jade (=girlfriend) brought up the subject I want to discard asap to be honest. 2 years looks a minimum

Jade is bisexual. She thinks Eve is a beautiful woman too but at the moment they can't stay in the same room so to speak. Eve is hetero and rejected the offer. I know many men would envy me with Jade as being a unicorn like some call it, but with Eve it's not compatible and I also don't like the idea for practical reasons. It would be exhausting, since both are "receivers" and making love usually lasts hours with both, can't imagine doing them both at once, even when they do each other too.

As things look, Eve slammed the door yesterday. She says today she don't want Lewis (her collegue) out of respect for Nathalie (his wife), because she don't want to be a homewrecker. Nathalie is a former therapist of our family (our sons have Asperger). My best shot at the moment to lubricate the situation seems to befriend that couple and take on Nathalie, with which I can get along. But I'm not in love with her. It's a desperate idea I know...

We have scheduled a session with a relationship therapist in 2 weeks, I predict this will be fireworks...

 

[Magdlyn]

I agree completely on the pregnancy for both. It's nothing I want to discuss, because it's so surreal right now, and early too. Both Eve (=my wife) and Jade (=girlfriend) brought up the subject. I want to discard it asap, to be honest. 2 years looks like a minimum.

Good! Take that stress off the list.

Jade is bisexual. She thinks Eve is a beautiful woman too, but at the moment they can't stay in the same room, so to speak. Eve is hetero and rejected the offer. I know many men would envy me with Jade being a unicorn, like some call it, but with Eve it's not compatible, and I also don't like the idea for practical reasons.

Many men are idiots. They have no idea what it takes to manage a FMF triad. And there is no "unicorn" thing happening here, if Eve is straight! Take another stressor off the list!

As things look, Eve slammed the door yesterday. She says today she doesn't want Lewis (her colleague) out of respect for Nathalie (his wife), because she doesn't want to be a homewrecker.

Is Lewis not in an open relationship? Is he cheating on Nathalie?

Nathalie is a former therapist of our family (our sons have Aspergers). My best shot at the moment to lubricate the situation seems to befriend that couple and take on Nathalie, with whom I can get along. But I'm not in love with her. It's a desperate idea I know.

Oh god, no. Don't try and start a quad either! Keep it simple, for goodness' sakes. Quads are just as messy as triads. Nathalie can go get her own lover, if they are open, and she wants to. She doesn't need a pity fuck from you, dude.

We have scheduled a session with a relationship therapist in 2 weeks, I predict there will be fireworks.

Best of luck. Speak your truth, be heard, hear Eve, and be respectful.

 

[Monkfish]

I know it wasn't a good idea...

I don't know if Lewis and Nathalie have an open relationship. He stresses a lot they are not married, whatever that may imply. Nathalie has the same profile as my wife, open minded after a burnout. Eve also wants to become a life coach/therapist after hers... To me, it's not an issue if Lewis and Eve get together. I have the feeling for Eve it's an or-or and-and situation which I think it's bullshit...

However, I think it just needs some time...

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Monkfish,

I think it's great that you're reading Opening Up, it is a really good book and will help you prepare for polyamory. Right now it sounds like Eve is not yet ready to start polyamory, so you and Eve should just do more talking about it, rather than actually doing something about it for the moment. Also, I can't tell whether you are once again in touch with Jade? I think it would be good to tell Jade that you are discussing polyamory as a possibility, possibly get Jade's feelings on the subject. And I suppose it would be good for you to befriend Nathalie, but don't get romantically involved with her unless (until) you have romantic feelings for her!

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Monkfish]

Kevin, I can only say I came to the same conclusion. It's funny because she brought up the subject... I think it's best to leave it some time so Eve can read herself in a bit and to let the dust settle.

What concerns Jade, it's a fuzzy twilight zone we're in. We talk, but it's like we're holding back in our communication. Without Eve I'd guess we would be all over each other, but it looks like out of respect of Eve (better late than never) neither of us turn up the heat. Nobody breaks away, but nobody comes closer too. There's a lot of electricity in the air and it's awkward... Jade once suggested a triad herself, but that's science fiction. Do you think I should ask her opinions about a V? The very asking of that question may stir things up and I really don't want to push things right now without Eve on the same page as me. I did that already once and it was devastating... It's a miracle we recovered that well as a couple.

 

[Magdlyn]

Kevin, I can only say I came to the same conclusion. It's funny because she brought up the subject. I think it's best to give it some time so Eve can read for a bit and let the dust settle.

Concerning Jade, it's a fuzzy twilight zone we're in. We talk, but it's like we're holding back in our communication. Without Eve I'd guess we would be all over each other, but it looks like out of respect of Eve (better late than never) neither of us turn up the heat. Nobody is breaking away, but nobody is coming closer either. There's a lot of electricity in the air and it's awkward.

Jade once suggested a triad herself, but that's science fiction. Do you think I should ask her opinions about a V? The very asking of that question may stir things up, and I really don't want to push things right now without Eve on the same page as me.

I did that already once and it was devastating. It's a miracle we recovered that well as a couple.

Put things on hold with Jade. Stop with the "electricity." It's inappropriate, and unethical, which is why you feel awkward. There should be no grey areas, only the crystal clear light of respectful, open, informed communication.

Out of respect for both women, focus on your reading, discussion and negotiation of a proper Opening plan with Eve for several months, at least. Most couples which want to Open take about a year. You have extra work because you need to rebuild trust after the cheating. Still talking to Jade is not going to help to rebuild Eve's trust in you.

Tell Jade you will get back to her in X months, to let her know if you and Eve are on the same page yet, regarding polyamory. Stopping communication with Jade will let your passion die down a bit, so you can think with your big head, not your little one, if you know what I mean.

Believe me, I've been the other woman with men who are attempting to Open their marriages. It's a mess. It's very hurtful to your prospective partner to keep her on the hook, in the dark, guessing and being disappointed. Let her be, so she can get on with her life without this stress and silliness.

 

[Monkfish]

That's hard advice... But probably you're right.

Since I love them both with whole my heart it's something I need to do.

 

[Monkfish]

As for the "evil deed" of having cheated, once, that is also common. Now you can give yourself permission to move on. Your wife is interested in polyamory. Maybe you are. Maybe your gf would be too! You and your wife could both explore an open relationship. Maybe she could start something with that colleague of hers, and you could explore a long distance relationship with your UK based gf.

Just because you and your wife vowed to be mono when you married, does not mean you can't renegotiate that agreement now. People change and grow. We do not have to live forever with a promise we made as a naive 20 something person. Really. It's OK. Don't bend yourself into a pretzel just to "please your wife." Be your authentic self. Honor yourself and have integrity. Cramming yourself back into the mono box could cause your depression to resurface. Do you want to live depressed for the rest of your life, just to "please" your wife? She doesn't own you, or have a right to control you.

This weekend something went completely wrong. She entrenched herself completely in a monogamy ultimatum: you can be polyamorous but it will be without me. I must have fucked up in communication somehow, I don't recall where it was. I thought I acknowledged her feelings and doubts without accepting them or denying them either, but her feelings for Lewis will be burried too.

Perhaps I misread her when she brought up the subject, perhaps she's chicken out. I put things on hold with Jade in het beginning of the weekend, breaking off all communication, thought that would be a good step. Jade was not happy but would respect it but could not predict the future and she may not want anything firther with me. I feel like I lost a battle on two fronts the same time.

I feel like a loser and socially inadequate to asses emotions and conversations...

The ultimatum to monogamy with Eve or leaving her is such a no win situation...

 

[Magdlyn]

This weekend something went completely wrong. Eve entrenched herself completely in a monogamy ultimatum, saying: "You can be polyamorous, but it will be without me."

I must have fucked up in communication somehow. I don't recall where it was. I thought I acknowledged her feelings and doubts, without accepting them or denying them, but her feelings for Lewis will be buried too. Perhaps I misread her when she brought up the subject, or perhaps she's just chickening out.

I put things on hold with Jade in the beginning of the weekend, breaking off all communication. I thought that would be a good step. Jade was not happy with that, but will respect it. She said she can't predict the future. She may not want anything further with me.

I feel like I lost a battle on two fronts the same time. I feel like a loser and socially inadequate to asses emotions and conversations.

I hear you feel like a loser. Try to work that through. No one here is a winner or a loser, you know. You're all just fallible human beings, with normal lusts and feelings, trying to navigate treacherous waters.

If you want to respect yourself more, take action. Even if Eve has panicked once again and said she's anti-poly, you can keep reading Opening Up. You might find insights there into where she is on the typical poly rollercoaster, and learn that those are HER feelings and words and actions. You have choices. You're not a loser and you're not evil. You can respect yourself, Eve, and Jade, get counseling, breathe, learn more about poly and adult
relationships, take it one step at a time. I know it's very very hard.

The ultimatum to practice monogamy with Eve, or leave her, is such a no-win situation.

I know it feels like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. But actually, you do have options. You will probably end up in a much happier cleaner place, eventually. It just takes time and work. There is no rush. You will someday look back and be proud of your inner work and negotiations for a more fulfilling life.

Eve led you on by putting poly on the table, then changing her mind in a panic. That's on her. You can ask for her to respect you enough to let you also work through your feelings.

You might want to take a break from talking about any of this except in a couples counseling session, where you will be able to keep things respectful and as rational as possible with the help of a trained therapist.

It's best to let Jade go for the foreseeable future. It's just cruel to keep getting her hopes up one week, only to crush them the next week. Go no contact for at least 40 days. This sounds like a random number, but it's been found by many to be the ideal number of days to get a new fresh look at things.

 

[Monkfish]

Thanks... Time is all I have, I think I lost Jade. Now there's no rush at all. Last time I fell in love was 15 years ago, so at that pace I can prepare Eve and myself for the next time it happens...