Hello,
I'm a 43 year old man in California and I'm making my first go at a serious poly relationship. I'm here to share my story and to get advice and suggestions.
Here are the basics of my situation, along with a timeline. Sorry if it seems kind of cut-and-dried but I figure it's a good way to establish the basis.
I was married to a woman for about eight years. It was an extremely difficult relationship; I loved her, but she was emotionally, verbally, and occasionally physically abusive. Let's call her "S." I stayed in that relationship for as long as I did for many reasons, most of which are very well captured by this article:
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/200...elationships-with-their-wives-or-girlfriends/
I only woke up in 2012 when I realized S was starting to dish out the same abuse to our daughter that she had been giving to me for many years.
In mid-2013 I got to know a wonderful woman; let's call her "C." She was also in a bad marriage. We commiserated and became friends.
November 2014: C kicks her husband out and initiated a divorce.
December 2014: C and I become romantic. I decide I'm going to leave my wife S for her. She greets this news enthusiastically.
January 2014: I decide on April to move out, communicate that with her.
February 2014: I go on a cruise with my then-wife, S. It was something we had booked a year previously. In retrospect, it is clear that it was a bad idea. But I told myself I wanted to give my daughter one last nice vacation memory of the three of us together.
March 2014: C buys an investment property about three hours' drive away. She tells me she will have a friend of hers live there to fix it up before she re-sells it. Let's call him "T."
April 2014: As promised, I leave my wife S to be with C. Things are wonderful.
May-July 2014: Things between C and I go very well. In May, C asks me if we can have an open relationship for now. I think about it and finally decide I'm OK to that idea; I tell her "I hear you need to agree on rules for it to work." She says "you research those rules and we'll talk about it."
She goes up to her investment home about once a month, spending 2-3 days there each time, to check on the progress of the remodeling. After the third visit, I ask her, curious, where she stays when she's up there... a hotel? "No, silly, I stay at the house." "Oh. OK. Where do you sleep?" "Well, in the bed of course. T sleeps on the couch when I'm there."
OK.
I notice that her energy is different shortly before and after each trip to the investment home. An odd vibe. So finally after another trip up there, I take her aside and ask her, "Have you and T ever had a physical relationship?"
She hesitates and says, "That's something I've been meaning to tell you about."
So she spills the beans. When I went on the cruise with my wife in February, she was so upset and lonely she contacted T, an old friend who she's known for years, who lives about 3 hours away. They hooked up and began what she describes as a FwB relationship. When she learned he was out of work and about to be evicted, she bought the investment house for him to live in rent-free with the plan being for him to fix it up for re-sale later.
She says she wants us to have a poly relationship; that she's 'not wired for monogamy' and she can continue to have occasional encounters with T, treating it as "like eating a nice steak or a piece of candy; the same level of emotional attachment." But she loves me and wants to have a future with me and both of us raise our kids together; i.e., she wants her and my relationship to be the primary one.
I think about this long and hard. She really is a wonderful woman and I truly believe she love me dearly. I am also totally crazy about her. She and I are perfect for each other; it's as if government scientists in some secret lab designed the perfect life partner for me.
So I tell her, after much thought, OK... you did ask for an open reationship previously. So I guess technically you weren't cheating. I'm willing to give this a try.
I also say, if this is going to work, there needs to be equality. If you can maintain a FwB with T on the side, then I need to have the same freedom. She says OK.
So the next time she's planning on going away for a weekend, I tell her I'm going out with a female friend of mine that Friday night. She asks if it's a FWB thing, I say, well, there's that possibility. She's ok with it at first.
She goes off for the weekend, I have my date on Friday night. My date turns out to be a totally friendly thing. No sparks fly, so no "wB."
She comes back for the weekend and tells me she was a mess the whole time, she was so freaked out about my date. She was upset and stressed and nervous and why did I have to go and ruin her whole weekend?
So we talk.
She admits that she's not good at handling jealousy. She says "you're so much better at this poly thing than I am." And it's true... when I know she's up for the weekend with T, I get a bit antsy and agitated, and I miss her terribly, but I'm not consumed with jealousy.
I ask if she can take a break from T while we figure things out, she says no, after all he's remodeling her investment house. Besides, she 'needs this.' She also reveals to me that the reason her previous marriage went downhill was because she 'needed more sex then he could give' and so went on ashley madison looking for a FwB.
So we talk more. I tell her I'm all for the poly thing, if that's what you need to be happy and satisfied, but there needs to be equality and reassurance. She asks why I can't be more like T, "who never worries about things like that." She also tells me I shouldn't be putting effort into finding my own FwB while I'm still working on my own divorce, that I shouldn't pursue that until I'm completely free of S. She even suggests she and I go back to being just friends until my divorce is completely resolved; I tell her no, that could take years, and I reckon you wouldn't wait for me that long; after all, you didn't wait two weeks when I went on the cruise. So she replies "why are you so hung up on this 'equality' thing anyways? Do you really need a FwB? Why can't you just be happy with the way things are?"
Hm. Writing all this it sounds pretty horrible. But here's the thing... it's not. She and I really do get along well. We're extremely compatible, on many levels. Even when we argue, we fight fair and make up after. Our kids get along really well too. And, as I mentioned, I am totally over the moon crazy about her and I think she is too about me. So I really want to try to reach a place where this can work and everyone gets what they need out of the relationship (yes, even T).
So, that's why I've come to you fine folks. I need a place to share and to process. I also need others' thoughts on our situation. Some questions in my head:
(a) Should I have been angry at her for not telling me about T right away? I honestly could not at the time, seeing as how the situation was so confused and chaotic. I do regret going on that damn cruise and I regret she couldn't wait for me to leave my wife... she said she 'couldn't be sure I would follow through' with my promise to leave S in April, and when I went on that cruise it seemed to her that I was certainly going to renege, despite my promises.
(b) Is my desire for equality in the relationship (if she's going to have a FwB, then so can I) selfish? Should I push harder on that front, or let it go? I'm actually starting to think she might prefer a "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement. I'm not sure I'm ok with that. I'm all for disclosure and radical honesty.
(c) I think that she may be presuming her relationship with me and with T are "baseline" relationships, and if I do begin a FwB on the side, she might see that as 'extra' to our baseline and therefore give her permission/motivation to seek out another FwB. I don't see things that way, I see it as every time she goes up to spend the weekend with T that's above and beyond the 'baseline,' and, while I'm ok with it, she is accruing a bit of a relationship debt. Maybe this is not the most enlightened attitude to have but I haven't been able to move past the 'relationship debt' model yet. How do I do that?
(d) any other advice you can give would be welcome.
Thanks!
I'm a 43 year old man in California and I'm making my first go at a serious poly relationship. I'm here to share my story and to get advice and suggestions.
Here are the basics of my situation, along with a timeline. Sorry if it seems kind of cut-and-dried but I figure it's a good way to establish the basis.
I was married to a woman for about eight years. It was an extremely difficult relationship; I loved her, but she was emotionally, verbally, and occasionally physically abusive. Let's call her "S." I stayed in that relationship for as long as I did for many reasons, most of which are very well captured by this article:
http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/200...elationships-with-their-wives-or-girlfriends/
I only woke up in 2012 when I realized S was starting to dish out the same abuse to our daughter that she had been giving to me for many years.
In mid-2013 I got to know a wonderful woman; let's call her "C." She was also in a bad marriage. We commiserated and became friends.
November 2014: C kicks her husband out and initiated a divorce.
December 2014: C and I become romantic. I decide I'm going to leave my wife S for her. She greets this news enthusiastically.
January 2014: I decide on April to move out, communicate that with her.
February 2014: I go on a cruise with my then-wife, S. It was something we had booked a year previously. In retrospect, it is clear that it was a bad idea. But I told myself I wanted to give my daughter one last nice vacation memory of the three of us together.
March 2014: C buys an investment property about three hours' drive away. She tells me she will have a friend of hers live there to fix it up before she re-sells it. Let's call him "T."
April 2014: As promised, I leave my wife S to be with C. Things are wonderful.
May-July 2014: Things between C and I go very well. In May, C asks me if we can have an open relationship for now. I think about it and finally decide I'm OK to that idea; I tell her "I hear you need to agree on rules for it to work." She says "you research those rules and we'll talk about it."
She goes up to her investment home about once a month, spending 2-3 days there each time, to check on the progress of the remodeling. After the third visit, I ask her, curious, where she stays when she's up there... a hotel? "No, silly, I stay at the house." "Oh. OK. Where do you sleep?" "Well, in the bed of course. T sleeps on the couch when I'm there."
OK.
I notice that her energy is different shortly before and after each trip to the investment home. An odd vibe. So finally after another trip up there, I take her aside and ask her, "Have you and T ever had a physical relationship?"
She hesitates and says, "That's something I've been meaning to tell you about."
So she spills the beans. When I went on the cruise with my wife in February, she was so upset and lonely she contacted T, an old friend who she's known for years, who lives about 3 hours away. They hooked up and began what she describes as a FwB relationship. When she learned he was out of work and about to be evicted, she bought the investment house for him to live in rent-free with the plan being for him to fix it up for re-sale later.
She says she wants us to have a poly relationship; that she's 'not wired for monogamy' and she can continue to have occasional encounters with T, treating it as "like eating a nice steak or a piece of candy; the same level of emotional attachment." But she loves me and wants to have a future with me and both of us raise our kids together; i.e., she wants her and my relationship to be the primary one.
I think about this long and hard. She really is a wonderful woman and I truly believe she love me dearly. I am also totally crazy about her. She and I are perfect for each other; it's as if government scientists in some secret lab designed the perfect life partner for me.
So I tell her, after much thought, OK... you did ask for an open reationship previously. So I guess technically you weren't cheating. I'm willing to give this a try.
I also say, if this is going to work, there needs to be equality. If you can maintain a FwB with T on the side, then I need to have the same freedom. She says OK.
So the next time she's planning on going away for a weekend, I tell her I'm going out with a female friend of mine that Friday night. She asks if it's a FWB thing, I say, well, there's that possibility. She's ok with it at first.
She goes off for the weekend, I have my date on Friday night. My date turns out to be a totally friendly thing. No sparks fly, so no "wB."
She comes back for the weekend and tells me she was a mess the whole time, she was so freaked out about my date. She was upset and stressed and nervous and why did I have to go and ruin her whole weekend?
So we talk.
She admits that she's not good at handling jealousy. She says "you're so much better at this poly thing than I am." And it's true... when I know she's up for the weekend with T, I get a bit antsy and agitated, and I miss her terribly, but I'm not consumed with jealousy.
I ask if she can take a break from T while we figure things out, she says no, after all he's remodeling her investment house. Besides, she 'needs this.' She also reveals to me that the reason her previous marriage went downhill was because she 'needed more sex then he could give' and so went on ashley madison looking for a FwB.
So we talk more. I tell her I'm all for the poly thing, if that's what you need to be happy and satisfied, but there needs to be equality and reassurance. She asks why I can't be more like T, "who never worries about things like that." She also tells me I shouldn't be putting effort into finding my own FwB while I'm still working on my own divorce, that I shouldn't pursue that until I'm completely free of S. She even suggests she and I go back to being just friends until my divorce is completely resolved; I tell her no, that could take years, and I reckon you wouldn't wait for me that long; after all, you didn't wait two weeks when I went on the cruise. So she replies "why are you so hung up on this 'equality' thing anyways? Do you really need a FwB? Why can't you just be happy with the way things are?"
Hm. Writing all this it sounds pretty horrible. But here's the thing... it's not. She and I really do get along well. We're extremely compatible, on many levels. Even when we argue, we fight fair and make up after. Our kids get along really well too. And, as I mentioned, I am totally over the moon crazy about her and I think she is too about me. So I really want to try to reach a place where this can work and everyone gets what they need out of the relationship (yes, even T).
So, that's why I've come to you fine folks. I need a place to share and to process. I also need others' thoughts on our situation. Some questions in my head:
(a) Should I have been angry at her for not telling me about T right away? I honestly could not at the time, seeing as how the situation was so confused and chaotic. I do regret going on that damn cruise and I regret she couldn't wait for me to leave my wife... she said she 'couldn't be sure I would follow through' with my promise to leave S in April, and when I went on that cruise it seemed to her that I was certainly going to renege, despite my promises.
(b) Is my desire for equality in the relationship (if she's going to have a FwB, then so can I) selfish? Should I push harder on that front, or let it go? I'm actually starting to think she might prefer a "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement. I'm not sure I'm ok with that. I'm all for disclosure and radical honesty.
(c) I think that she may be presuming her relationship with me and with T are "baseline" relationships, and if I do begin a FwB on the side, she might see that as 'extra' to our baseline and therefore give her permission/motivation to seek out another FwB. I don't see things that way, I see it as every time she goes up to spend the weekend with T that's above and beyond the 'baseline,' and, while I'm ok with it, she is accruing a bit of a relationship debt. Maybe this is not the most enlightened attitude to have but I haven't been able to move past the 'relationship debt' model yet. How do I do that?
(d) any other advice you can give would be welcome.
Thanks!