My wife of 20 years (we have kids too) now wants poly

[Al99]

you remind me of our member Al99. Check out his thread called Accidentally Poly. He went through a lot of the same considerations you did when faced with his wife falling for another guy, actually an ex bf, like your wife, did, a rekindling of an old flame. Al posted in on this thread earlier on.

Hi again, Patrick - I did send you an earlier "welcome greeting". The link to my story - "Unexpectedly Poly" - which does have similarities to yours is in my signature file below. I commend you on the thought and processing that you are putting into this situation - it does remind me of much of the processing that I did, although most of my early processing that led to an acceptance of poly was done before I posted my introductory thread. (However, even though I didn't initially post about my emerging situation, I did do a lot of reading here about similar situations - which did indeed prove very helpful in the process.)

You are getting lots of great advice in this thread - if I can answer any specific questions about my situation, don't hesitate to ask.

Oh, and I enjoy Coltrane as well.

Best, Al

 

[Magdlyn]

There's no reason my questions should be perceived as aggressive. They are food for thought, and vitally important questions that should be considered before bringing other people into this.

It's hard to read tone online, but to my mind you seemed a bit harsh to a newbie who seems to be thoughtful, intelligent, has been hit with the proverbial "poly bomb" very very recently, and is trying to see how to change up his life in pretty drastic ways, which were totally unplanned for. He has just spent months just trying to get his wife to admit to her recurring feelings for her ex, so I find it totally understandable that his thoughts are all over the place. He said he'd lost 100s of hours of sleep over this. How exhausting.

Maybe the answers to these questions are uncomfortable in revealing that this may not be a great deal for Hypothetical Gal--and thus it's easier to attack me as being aggressive than to face that discomfort and think more deeply about the direction that will be taken.

Telling a newbie he might give a future lover a bad deal seems harsh, for example. And I don't see anyone trying not to "face discomfort."

Chances are good finding a new other significant other will take some time. I'd say Patrick is learning as he goes. He still has yet to read the most recommended poly books and learn about all or even some of the "how to's" of ethical non monogamy. He can't learn overnight. (He's got a job and 3 teenagers for goodness sake! That's very time and energy consuming. And he needs to catch up on sleep.)

Whether or not he's a great catch for someone will depend on him, his needs, desires, dreams, and on Hypothetical Woman and her needs and desires, and on his wife's needs/wants, and on the wife's new thing with her ex partner (and his needs), and on their kids' needs and desires, and on any partners his future lover(s) may have, on everyone's kids, on everyone's jobs (and possible need to move to find or continue a job), on everyone's health issues, on any needs of aging parents or ill siblings, or childrens' health issues, grandchildren... on and on nearly ad infinitum. It can't really be entirely planned for right out of the gate! Good grief.

God knows I learned poly as I went... I made mistakes, we all do. I don't think I irreparably harmed any of the lovers that came and went in my life. I don't think I dealt out any "bad deals." There were some sad breakups, but mismatches happen. Dating is hard, for everyone, mono or poly. It's always my potential partners' choice to date a poly person. I made space for lovers in my life, as they fit in, as we discovered whether we were compatible. I found a long term female nesting partner right out of the gate. I sure didn't expect to, after 30+ years of monogamy with one man! So that threw out my first expectations of being "solo poly" early on in my poly journey. Sometimes (usually) life brings you things you don't, or even can't, plan for.

And this is exactly what people should be thinking about before inviting others into this situation. What do they want their poly to look like and how is that going to impact the people they bring into their lives?

How is it going to feel to the woman/women Patrick imagines bringing into his life?

If she is also poly but partnered, Patrick would be a good fit for her, at this stage, I'd think. But a single busy woman who is independent and likes her own space would also work. And when Patrick's kids are off to college or other independent pursuits and living situations, perhaps his needs and desires will change. Poly can be done in many different ways. It's different for a newbie than for a more experienced poly person (as I've now become). So his answers to your questions NOW will be built mostly on speculation as he reads here and elsewhere about the various ways poly can be done.

You seem to be taking on the needs, speaking for this hypothetical woman as if he's going to be a monster, a user, thinking with his dick, couple-centric, careless of anyone's needs and desires but his own. Your bolding of the type around the needs of a future hypothetical person shows your emphasis. You fear for someone he hasn't even met yet getting extremely harmed by the selfishness you imagine Patrick to have.

...But Patrick doesn't read it that way, so I guess it's OK.

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?

You're really jumping the gun! Circumstances will dictate much of your imagined scenario of "death til we part." Me, I'd love to find a long term bf who will be with me til I die, but I can't seem to find anyone suitable for that, and I've been practicing poly for nearly 10 years. I feel so lucky to have found one poly partner who I am able to cohabit with. And Pixi has had the same bf for 4 years. She has put a lot of effort into growing that relationship. The longest running other relationship (two of them, partly concurrently) for me, was 2.5 years. Maybe someday "Mr Right, til death do we part" will come along, but I'm not counting on it! Much less planning for it in great detail! That would be ridiculous, there are too many variables on every side.

Patrick still has all that "living together as a quad" stuff far in the future. (Just one very unlikely scenario, btw. There are very few long term poly quads in the world). Personally I like living with just Pixi, and she likes it too. We don't WANT a lover for each of us to move in with us. We are currently fine with once a week overnight dates with our OSOs. The occasional longer stay during vacation time or whatever. Sometimes Pixi pops over to her bf's place nowadays for just a couple hours. But this has all evolved organically. My bf Kahlo has been in my life 5 months and I can't "plan" entirely for our future, since we are still getting to know each other.

Why jump immediately to asking a newbie if he wants to live as a quad? That's ridiculous. His wife has waffled about him having someone in the house just for a date... future imagined cohabiting of poly partners isn't, and shouldn't be, on his/their radar yet, if ever.

 

[Patrick]

There's no reason my questions should be perceived as aggressive. They are food for thought, and vitally important questions that should be considered before bringing other people into this.

Maybe the answers to these questions are uncomfortable in revealing that this may not be a great deal for Hypothetical Gal--and thus it's easier to attack me as being aggressive than to face that discomfort and think more deeply about the direction that will be taken.




And this is exactly what people should be thinking about before inviting others into this situation. What do they want their poly to look like and how is that going to impact the people they bring into their lives?

How is it going to feel to the woman/women Patrick imagines bringing into his life?

When we set out to build a house, we do it with forethought and planning so it doesn't fall down and hurt someone. There is nothing aggressive about suggesting we live our lives with the same forethought, considering how our actions impact others, considering if our ideas are likely to work as we expect or hope they might.

Is your wife open to that?



When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?

There's no reason my questions should be perceived as aggressive. They are food for thought, and vitally important questions that should be considered before bringing other people into this.

Maybe the answers to these questions are uncomfortable in revealing that this may not be a great deal for Hypothetical Gal--and thus it's easier to attack me as being aggressive than to face that discomfort and think more deeply about the direction that will be taken.




And this is exactly what people should be thinking about before inviting others into this situation. What do they want their poly to look like and how is that going to impact the people they bring into their lives?

How is it going to feel to the woman/women Patrick imagines bringing into his life?

When we set out to build a house, we do it with forethought and planning so it doesn't fall down and hurt someone. There is nothing aggressive about suggesting we live our lives with the same forethought, considering how our actions impact others, considering if our ideas are likely to work as we expect or hope they might.

Is your wife open to that?



When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?

Is your wife open to that?



When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?[/QUOTE]


ok, hope i'll cut and paste and use the quote function thingy to respond to the great thoughtful question post by WH.

If a situation where I fall in love with a new gal, and her with me... a new living arrangement is inevitable if she's not ok being poly with my wife...


l had discussed this with my wife in our first talks about opening up the 20 year marriage up.... wanting her not so much to feel that her back was against the wall

....but just to really be aware that I wasn't going to be a 2nd class partner,and that what i want is to be loved and be loved in return and not leave someone who loves me back out.

My wife doesn’t want a guy to move in with her.. but is ok with the possibility of a separate apt for me and the new woman if that is what evolves (she and I even talked about how to fairly honorably recognize the new womans financial investment if she were to share an apt under the roof of the matrimonial home in the long term..

And If I find a woman to click with on a really deep level beyond the new relationship energy phase, and that new woman doesn't want poly i could possibly become mono with the new gal.. but that's something that is hypothetical now .

Me and my wife sure like sex together now –what an evolution – like some a poster said already - maybe she at almost 50 is an example of ‘life beginning at 40’..

Also I think I’ve changed my outlook on initiating sex.. my first long term girlfriend was on par with me about initiating sex and telling asking doing what turned her crank in bed (we were in our 20’s/30’s).

So it took me way to long in my opinion to recognize that my wife - although definitely went for me sexually in a nice aggressive way when we first got together -became the type to have sex with me when I asked. Somewhat rarely did she initiate. It took me forever to realize this wasn’t WRONG….

As a young man having feminist values made me look for a woman who was just as likely to initiate sex as I was, so this almost victorian obligatory sex idea was weird to me.

But here’s the wisdom that I gained only after two decades, as applies to my life:

the term ‘making love’ could be called that because it is - an action that takes two people – in this case a young husband and wife who are trying get by as starving artists at the time and have a mortgage and above all kids in the middle of a week’s toil and stresses to take the time to caress, have sex and thenrealize that here is a great connection to be had – right under our noses……

nowasays I initiate sex all the time and she likes it, and if she not up for it and my playful humping doesn’t lead to sex – just our smiles and a quick cuddle or embrace… I’m quite happy with walk away with a hard on knowing that I made her smile and ‘maybe later’ is actually likely and I’ll be so happy making breakfast a minute later having to wake kids who were up to late or a teen who was studying for a test.. like I said 20 years ago that would have sounded prohibitively victorian.

Now it often leads to great sex, and hell at 53 it’s always fun to get a nice hard on
And the testosterony rush that come with it☺

Bottom line : I'm committed to not lying, lying through omission etc...or - more than to being mono or poly. so my wife will have to live with her decision.

and while i'd feel sad for her if she ends up going through a real high while enjoying her new freedom only for it to come crashing down and realize that she regrets the choice and lost the love of her life (Me)
then I'd not dump the new gal. not meaning to be vindictive in this hypothetical scenario. but it's the old you made your bed so lie in it wisdom as applied here..


My Wife doesn't want to have a new mom or dad for our kids...

while I know and very much admire those who are able to find foster something along those lines I also recognize that our family history as being my wife/me and the 3 kids is on a quite great path – and I see no reason to change it radically.. .. while I know and very much admire at least a couple of wonderful families that are quite different as far as gender identity, sexual preferences of the parents and model of parent / child numbers I don’t aspire to mirror their success/model but for my wife and I to forge our own..


new apt built under same roof might apply - me living in it with the new gal - and kids could come and go . i'll still be up at 630 to make breakfast and lunches for all - my work other than the domestic part is freelance

r

 

[Patrick]

There's no reason my questions should be perceived as aggressive. They are food for thought, and vitally important questions that should be considered before bringing other people into this.

Maybe the answers to these questions are uncomfortable in revealing that this may not be a great deal for Hypothetical Gal--and thus it's easier to attack me as being aggressive than to face that discomfort and think more deeply about the direction that will be taken.




And this is exactly what people should be thinking about before inviting others into this situation. What do they want their poly to look like and how is that going to impact the people they bring into their lives?

How is it going to feel to the woman/women Patrick imagines bringing into his life?

When we set out to build a house, we do it with forethought and planning so it doesn't fall down and hurt someone. There is nothing aggressive about suggesting we live our lives with the same forethought, considering how our actions impact others, considering if our ideas are likely to work as we expect or hope they might.

Is your wife open to that?



When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?

Is your wife open to that?



When you say you need two things, does number 1 refer to your own need for yourself to love your kids, etc, or are you saying what you need from Hypothetical Gal is a woman who is going to love your kids, support the matrimonial home, etc?

My guess is you mean you yourself intend to fulfill your commitments and responsibilities to your wife and children until death do us part and when you find Hypothetical Gal you will also be committed to her until death do you part.

Do you envision perhaps four of you growing old together in your family home? Yourself, a girlfriend, your wife, and her boyfriend?[/QUOTE]


ok, hope i'll cut and paste and use the quote function thingy to respond to the great thoughtful question post by WH.

If a situation where I fall in love with a new gal, and her with me... a new living arrangement is inevitable if she's not ok being poly with my wife...


l had discussed this with my wife in our first talks about opening up the 20 year marriage up.... wanting her not so much to feel that her back was against the wall

....but just to really be aware that I wasn't going to be a 2nd class partner,and that what i want is to be loved and be loved in return and not leave someone who loves me back out.

My wife doesn’t want a guy to move in with her.. but is ok with the possibility of a separate apt for me and the new woman if that is what evolves (she and I even talked about how to fairly honorably recognize the new womans financial investment if she were to share an apt under the roof of the matrimonial home in the long term..

And If I find a woman to click with on a really deep level beyond the new relationship energy phase, and that new woman doesn't want poly i could possibly become mono with the new gal.. but that's something that is hypothetical now .

Me and my wife sure like sex together now –what an evolution – like some a poster said already - maybe she at almost 50 is an example of ‘life beginning at 40’..

Also I think I’ve changed my outlook on initiating sex.. my first long term girlfriend was on par with me about initiating sex and telling asking doing what turned her crank in bed (we were in our 20’s/30’s).

So it took me way to long in my opinion to recognize that my wife - although definitely went for me sexually in a nice aggressive way when we first got together -became the type to have sex with me when I asked. Somewhat rarely did she initiate. It took me forever to realize this wasn’t WRONG….

As a young man having feminist values made me look for a woman who was just as likely to initiate sex as I was, so this almost victorian obligatory sex idea was weird to me.

But here’s the wisdom that I gained only after two decades, as applies to my life:

the term ‘making love’ could be called that because it is - an action that takes two people – in this case a young husband and wife who are trying get by as starving artists at the time and have a mortgage and above all kids in the middle of a week’s toil and stresses to take the time to caress, have sex and thenrealize that here is a great connection to be had – right under our noses……

nowasays I initiate sex all the time and she likes it, and if she not up for it and my playful humping doesn’t lead to sex – just our smiles and a quick cuddle or embrace… I’m quite happy with walk away with a hard on knowing that I made her smile and ‘maybe later’ is actually likely and I’ll be so happy making breakfast a minute later having to wake kids who were up to late or a teen who was studying for a test.. like I said 20 years ago that would have sounded prohibitively victorian.

Now it often leads to great sex, and hell at 53 it’s always fun to get a nice hard on
And the testosterony rush that come with it☺

Bottom line : I'm committed to not lying, lying through omission etc...or - more than to being mono or poly. so my wife will have to live with her decision.

and while i'd feel sad for her if she ends up going through a real high while enjoying her new freedom only for it to come crashing down and realize that she regrets the choice and lost the love of her life (Me)
then I'd not dump the new gal. not meaning to be vindictive in this hypothetical scenario. but it's the old you made your bed so lie in it wisdom as applied here..


My Wife doesn't want to have a new mom or dad for our kids...

while I know and very much admire those who are able to find foster something along those lines I also recognize that our family history as being my wife/me and the 3 kids is on a quite great path – and I see no reason to change it radically.. .. while I know and very much admire at least a couple of wonderful families that are quite different as far as gender identity, sexual preferences of the parents and model of parent / child numbers I don’t aspire to mirror their success/model but for my wife and I to forge our own..


new apt built under same roof might apply - me living in it with the new gal - and kids could come and go . i'll still be up at 630 to make breakfast and lunches for all - my work other than the domestic part is freelance

 

[Patrick]

re her ex who was her first flame…. Well, she and him have my blessing to make each other happy… I don’t want to water a grudge towards him.. yet I have no interest or obligation to being his friend. Civil if the situation arises? - I have no major problem being in the same room – but living together – NADA !

I remember last summer going to a BBQ he put on – and at that time I had started to confirm my suspicions that he had arranged to meet her periodically behind my back – always in private… I remember him doting over me when I arrived at the BBQ after an artistic performance I had done that evening.. making sure that I knew all the food choices.. while I was polite and thanked him for all the nice food (which he had purchased and offered) I could see through his fear of being caught and deflective behavior posing as genuine niceness… I don’t doubt (or care ) that he has genuine niceness as applied to persons other than me… But, . Fact was: he lied to me over time through omission.. causing me to lose countless hours of sleep.

I forgive my wife as later life has offered her a new path and energy that she didn’t see coming – or maybe she just is feeling mortal and wants to be free. Regardless she is one who has been my partner in life, work endeavours and that I want to care for until we are old. I give back!

He is a guy who is divorced and now has apparently a pretty good pussy roster – sorry to be crude but lets call it what it is… ashley madison style lying when convenient- lying through omission posed as free love - lied to me and hurt me deeply . I made similar enough mistakes much earlier in life and I don’t judge , or water a grudge or want him to burn forever in hell…

But damn it , he and me friends – not looking likely in this lifetime…

Rendundantly I’ll finish again saying that if he makes my wife happy at this point in his life by putting her join his pussy roster so be it..

Ok can’t end on that – whenthere is so much positive like my wife and are loving each other more than ever – deeper than ever. Looking towards looking at each in 2 decades cherishing our time on the planet together and the kids and home we grew … enter violins ☺

 

[Patrick]

so sorry about the cut and paste screw ups. 4 hours sleep

 

[Patrick]

there is a lot of contect in the 2 previous long posts

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm following this thread... I see you have an idea of semi-cohabiting with a shared house with separate apartments.

Nice fantasy. You in one apartment with Ms Hypothetical, your wife in her apartment... alone? With a boyfriend you don't want to cross paths with?

I don't think you're imagining making breakfast and lunch for your wife's boyfriend. Right? How did he get left out of this?

By the way? If her current bf is lying to/cheating on his several "pussies," this is NOT polyamory. Far from it. If he is a playboy and lies and cheats, your wife and by extension, you, are aiding and abetting him in intentionally misleading several other pussies.

I'd feel tainted fucking my wife knowing she is fucking, or contemplating fucking, a cheating SOB.

Guess it's my turn to be "harsh..." but if you read around here, you'll see the accepted definition of polyamory includes "with the knowledge and consent of all involved." If your wife knows and accepts her bf is a cheater, and it doesn't bother her... hm. What about if one of his other pussies finds out and decides to "out" your wife as being married and dating another man, who is a lying cheating SOB? Would that impact either of your careers or social standing or families?Your kids' lives? Most of us don't enjoy being outed by a furious partner of our partners. One FB post, one tweet and there goes a cascade of judgment and damage.

Potentially.

 

[Patrick]

I'm following this thread... I see you have an idea of semi-cohabiting with a shared house with separate apartments.

Nice fantasy. You in one apartment with Ms Hypothetical, your wife in her apartment... alone? With a boyfriend you don't want to cross paths with?

I don't think you're imagining making breakfast and lunch for your wife's boyfriend. Right? How did he get left out of this?

By the way? If her current bf is lying to/cheating on his several "pussies," this is NOT polyamory. Far from it. If he is a playboy and lies and cheats, your wife and by extension, you, are aiding and abetting him in intentionally misleading several other pussies.

I'd feel tainted fucking my wife knowing she is fucking, or contemplating fucking, a cheating SOB.

Guess it's my turn to be "harsh..." but if you read around here, you'll see the accepted definition of polyamory includes "with the knowledge and consent of all involved." If your wife knows and accepts her bf is a cheater, and it doesn't bother her... hm. What about if one of his other pussies finds out and decides to "out" your wife as being married and dating another man, who is a lying cheating SOB? Would that impact either of your careers or social standing or families?Your kids' lives? Most of us don't enjoy being outed by a furious partner of our partners. One FB post, one tweet and there goes a cascade of judgment and damage.

Potentially.

sorry a few things i may or not have typed or got botched in formatting and using the quote function...

my wife has made it clear she absolutely does not wish to bring any guys into the matrimonial home - is ok with the separate apts under same roof idea for me if i should meet a woman and become that close but not a new woman imparting herself unto the family as a mom figure...and for me this is easy to concur on %100 as we are a well established family unit..

WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE there

Also I recognize that there are well established definitions of what poly is and isn't and respect those very much - an evolved culture that i'm benefitting so much from being given kind thoughtful experienced nuanced advice here. however i thought i made it clear when i referred to this fellows ashley madison pussy roster (again pardon the crude wording) that that was posing as enlightened - and certainly never aligned his behaviour with poly culture - more an opposite as poly community seems to value looking at our effect on all parties rather than just conveniently sticking our heads into the sand so as not to see others suffering...

i don't think he'll show up here very much if at all... and if my wife (who is NOT a shallow person) does want to enjoy a handsome guys big cock as mid life strikes her.. well i wont act like i'm devoid of jealousy ... but i also know that our relationship has run deep and is deeper than her affair (which may only be emotional-for what that distinction is worth).


it is also possible (as everything possible with us complex crazy humans) that inspite of this guys shitty playboy behaviour he has awesome qualities which may surface and capture capture my wife's heart and they might find an amazing true love and depth... my sense is that that is highly unlikely but if i lose out - as does happen , i'll find love and survive. but no not that wacky 4 in a house situation where i make him breakfast every morning

 

[Magdlyn]

OK. I will refrain from further comment and wait and see if WhatHappened is satisfied with your imagined scenario that may happen years down the road or never.

 

[Patrick]

OK. I will refrain from further comment and wait and see if WhatHappened is satisfied with your imagined scenario that may happen years down the road or never.

I am am confused by that last post. i'm not up on the different emoticons, and don't have strong enough reading glasses... is it my present moment physical and emotional exhaustion speaking or is that a laughing face. sorry i'm hurting a lot... also why will you wait to see whether WH is satisfied?

 

[Marvelgirl]

I completely agree with this. This is a huge red flag, oh my god, stop, have a come to Jesus meeting, sit the hell down and think with your brain not your genitals and consider what kind of person you're exposing our family to.

He's a shitty human being. I know I sound dramatic but I've seen this go so, so bad. And you and your wife are so new to this and struggling and frankly, vulnerable. Bringing in a person who has no ethics when it comes to relationships and likes to lie to people is such a bad idea. I hope it doesn't go badly for you. I really do. I wouldn't tolerate a relationship with a person who helped my husband lie to me and betray me. I allowed a cheater in our circle once and it ended badly for ME. I wasn't even involved with her but I was the one she attacked.

When someone tells you who they are, listen to them. This guy has told you both who he is. You should really listen.

By the way? If her current bf is lying to/cheating on his several "pussies," this is NOT polyamory. Far from it. If he is a playboy and lies and cheats, your wife and by extension, you, are aiding and abetting him in intentionally misleading several other pussies.

I'd feel tainted fucking my wife knowing she is fucking, or contemplating fucking, a cheating SOB.

Guess it's my turn to be "harsh..." but if you read around here, you'll see the accepted definition of polyamory includes "with the knowledge and consent of all involved." If your wife knows and accepts her bf is a cheater, and it doesn't bother her... hm. What about if one of his other pussies finds out and decides to "out" your wife as being married and dating another man, who is a lying cheating SOB? Would that impact either of your careers or social standing or families?Your kids' lives? Most of us don't enjoy being outed by a furious partner of our partners. One FB post, one tweet and there goes a cascade of judgment and damage.

Potentially.

 

[Patrick]

I completely agree with this. This is a huge red flag, oh my god, stop, have a come to Jesus meeting, sit the hell down and think with your brain not your genitals and consider what kind of person you're exposing our family to.

He's a shitty human being. I know I sound dramatic but I've seen this go so, so bad. And you and your wife are so new to this and struggling and frankly, vulnerable. Bringing in a person who has no ethics when it comes to relationships and likes to lie to people is such a bad idea. I hope it doesn't go badly for you. I really do. I wouldn't tolerate a relationship with a person who helped my husband lie to me and betray me. I allowed a cheater in our circle once and it ended badly for ME. I wasn't even involved with her but I was the one she attacked.

When someone tells you who they are, listen to them. This guy has told you both who he is. You should really listen.

While the stuff I have told you about his conduct regarding my and me wife is true - and i in no way think it's ok...My wife is attracted to him, and as i've written already my wife has no intention of bringing him to our home - she herself is adamant about that... I also imagine that he considers himself available to those women who want to partake and isn't needing a smokescreen much of the time...

he and my wife know i don't respect or tolerate his undercover seduction, however she will remain attracted to him for now

- we can't always choose our attractions by what we think is right- plus i have to concede that he seems to have qualities that she finds attractive and good character attributes as well.

and that is a fact that exists along with my wife loving me deeply, and our kids deeply...

My wife pointed out that i am probably shining the blame on him - not her...which there is truth in but I feel he has all the cards in a way. Plus I will not only paint her by her shittiest actions when so much of what she has done over twenty years is so wonderful..

She has told me that this is not about him, but about her wanting freedom. I find it hard to believe as they had a pattern of meeting - even though it was not too frequent and it is quite possible that they didn't have sex. but it still feels like this emotional affair has been the impetus to her wanting freedom.

- of course that doesn't mean that she doesn't genuinely want freedom in her life as she approaches 50.. and has decided to do it honorably..

many suggest that we could proceed but that he should be rejected from our love lifes...

it is possible that they are in love and they'll end up really together - he may well be actually in love with her and wanting and ready to give up his roster of women for her.. in which case i'd really like to move there sooner rather than after i've been dragged through the mud..

by the way:"oh my god, stop, have a come to Jesus meeting, sit the hell down and think with your brain not your genitals and consider what kind of person you're exposing our family to" do I sense that you resent me being on this forum, because that reads like hate against me. Thinking with my genitals? Jesus ... ? Huh?

ouch, really please that's brutal .

 

[Patrick]

Wife want me to find a new partner first

My wife seems to want me to go find a new partner first .

- which feels much like she doesn't she want to lose me, but is unable to give up the prospect of her seeing her ex once in a while for fun - is my interpretation of that - i'll ask that straight tonight if she is not too exhausted after working late tonight.. - she has to work in the morn also. but i'll bring that up! It is also possible that she may be more on the level about simply wanting to be freer... she has said many times that it's not anypne specific or that she even wants a new guy on a serious level..

If I had a new gal and we were great co-parents I'd accept her occaisional flings - although i might not want to remain sexually intimate with my wife if it would turn back against how things with my new gal had evolved..

.. She says that i've always been jealous and she's right- but now we know that my intuitions were on the right track that i wasn't merely paranoid - and she has openly conceded that i wasn't / am not crazy.

Asking her to dump him seems like a bad option as she'll always regard me as a ball and chain.... and that must be her choice..

I don't want to drag a new woman into a disappointing scenario/ and again i've told my wife that there may be no turning back if I find someone who is a great fit I'll not look to dump her to go back to my wife..


this was mostly but not entirely a recap of what i said before.. hard on the heart and brain. thanks again for all the words - even the fuming ones.

love to you all,

Patrick

 

[Marvelgirl]

No, I don't hate you or despise you or want you off the forum. I think your wife is the one thinking with her genitals when it could seriously hurt you and your kids.

The cheater who attacked me had never been in my home once. A person doesn't have to be in your home to be in your life and hurt you. I was thoroughly smeared to my entire family online due to her indiscretions.

I'm worried about you. Not hating you or trying to get rid of you. I don't want to see your family hurt because your wife is attracted to somebody with poor morals. All attractions do not need to be acted upon. You've said family must come first. It should for her to.

While the stuff I have told you about his conduct regarding my and me wife is true - and i in no way think it's ok...My wife is attracted to him, and as i've written already my wife has no intention of bringing him to our home - she herself is adamant about that... I also imagine that he considers himself available to those women who want to partake and isn't needing a smokescreen much of the time...

he and my wife know i don't respect or tolerate his undercover seduction, however she will remain attracted to him for now

- we can't always choose our attractions by what we think is right- plus i have to concede that he seems to have qualities that she finds attractive and good character attributes as well.

and that is a fact that exists along with my wife loving me deeply, and our kids deeply...

My wife pointed out that i am probably shining the blame on him - not her...which there is truth in but I feel he has all the cards in a way. Plus I will not only paint her by her shittiest actions when so much of what she has done over twenty years is so wonderful..

She has told me that this is not about him, but about her wanting freedom. I find it hard to believe as they had a pattern of meeting - even though it was not too frequent and it is quite possible that they didn't have sex. but it still feels like this emotional affair has been the impetus to her wanting freedom.

- of course that doesn't mean that she doesn't genuinely want freedom in her life as she approaches 50.. and has decided to do it honorably..

many suggest that we could proceed but that he should be rejected from our love lifes...

it is possible that they are in love and they'll end up really together - he may well be actually in love with her and wanting and ready to give up his roster of women for her.. in which case i'd really like to move there sooner rather than after i've been dragged through the mud..

by the way:"oh my god, stop, have a come to Jesus meeting, sit the hell down and think with your brain not your genitals and consider what kind of person you're exposing our family to" do I sense that you resent me being on this forum, because that reads like hate against me. Thinking with my genitals? Jesus ... ? Huh?

ouch, really please that's brutal .

 

[Magdlyn]

I am am confused by that last post. i'm not up on the different emoticons, and don't have strong enough reading glasses... is it my present moment physical and emotional exhaustion speaking or is that a laughing face. sorry i'm hurting a lot... also why will you wait to see whether WH is satisfied?

Yes, that was a laughing face. I thought it was ridiculous that WhatHappened was pressing you so hard to make long term plans for a woman you haven't even met yet and may never meet.

But I see you've enjoyed imagining a future where your house is split into 2 apartments and you have a mini harem of 2 wives, but your original wife doesn't have a new man living in her apartment.

That's nice. But I don't see it as a plan for the future so much as a nice fantasy. As I said, there are so many wishes and dreams and so little experience here, and no woman in sight for you, that the dream is a long way off. May never happen. Dating is hard! Finding your new 2nd Ms Right, who would agree to this specific scenario, is probably a long way off, at best.

Let's see, if we are fantasising... I'd like a family of 3 tall handsome guys to live next door to me. One is dark haired, one a ginger with long curls who is a vegetarian and a good cook, one bald and with a beard. One is a successful musician, one an engineer, and one is a playful Peter Pan type who likes to give massages. 2 should be bi for our group sex sessions, one is straight but openminded. All 3 are devoted to me. All 3 are into BDSM, one is my Dom, one is my sub, the other is just a fun kinky hedonist. They all love to fuck and never suffer from ED.

See? I can fantasise too lolol

 

[Patrick]

Yes, that was a laughing face. I thought it was ridiculous that WhatHappened was pressing you so hard to make long term plans for a woman you haven't even met yet and may never meet.

But I see you've enjoyed imagining a future where your house is split into 2 apartments and you have a mini harem of 2 wives, but your original wife doesn't have a new man living in her apartment.

That's nice. But I don't see it as a plan for the future so much as a nice fantasy. As I said, there are so many wishes and dreams and so little experience here, and no woman in sight for you, that the dream is a long way off. May never happen. Dating is hard! Finding your new 2nd Ms Right, who would agree to this specific scenario, is probably a long way off, at best.

Let's see, if we are fantasising... I'd like a family of 3 tall handsome guys to live next door to me. One is dark haired, one a ginger with long curls who is a vegetarian and a good cook, one bald and with a beard. One is a successful musician, one an engineer, and one is a playful Peter Pan type who likes to give massages. 2 should be bi for our group sex sessions, one is straight but openminded. All 3 are devoted to me. All 3 are into BDSM, one is my Dom, one is my sub, the other is just a fun kinky hedonist. They all love to fuck and never suffer from ED.

See? I can fantasise too lolol

Wow. all that extrapolated from what i never said..

What I think and want for the record:

Harem: Ew!, no thanks!

original wife doesn't have a new man living in her apartment: my wife's wishes - NOT MINE.

Your twisted parody of my honest attempt at searching for happiness above might have got some laughs from your friends, and usually I'm one to grant poetic or comedic license... but right now i'm not feeling it.... must be the hundreds of hours of sleep I've lost, combined with my weekly workload and wounded heart.

Now, what I DO wish for want and think:
My wife and I both value the matrimonial home, and look for a way to keep that / or adapt that if possible , but also look for ways to live fulfilled lives being true to ourselves and others.... I'll always want to help her as we will always be on the same team given our 3 kids /family community/careers and that should remain regardless of the type of intimacy we do or don't have..
When me and her help each other we also help our 3 kids /family community/careers.

Call out her wrongdoing on the emotional affair if we must (although wrong and hurtful as that was it should not be the 1 thing that defines her - she's still a kind and generous great person who is a mother of 3, who works her ass off at numerous jobs and will still squeek out theher last drop of energy to help the kids with their homework or me with my M.A. work... Whatever happens romantically between me - and the intimate love part of our relationship is going to evolve one way or the other andr I wish to keep returning that aspect of helping/love that she gives. Not saying she has to be my sexual lover for that giving to continue to flourish, it very well may not be possible... But we need not look for actual solutions.

 

[Magdlyn]

Ahh I see you're not up for humor. I was more teasing WhatHappened than poking fun at you.

My apologies if I added to your stress load.

 

[GalaGirl]

he and my wife know i don't respect or tolerate his undercover seduction, however she will remain attracted to him for now

I can't be attracted to someone I don't respect for very long. Eventually I start to lose admiration for them and the attraction fades.

- we can't always choose our attractions by what we think is right- plus i have to concede that he seems to have qualities that she finds attractive and good character attributes as well.

We cannot choose our attractions.

We CAN choose our behavior to act on it or not.

Your wife has to figure out what she wants here.

So do you. You seem up for poly, but not up for shenanigans or being treated poorly. You seem realistic about things either working out or not working out. You seem to want to coparent and be polite/respectful if this ends up at a divorce.

So my only suggestion is to continue to sort things out. But don't sign up for anything you don't feel good about.

That includes telling wife "Look, I'm not going to stop you. But if you take up with this guy? I'm not crazy about it. Doing poly like THIS? I'm not up for that. I prefer to break up. Then I can be free FROM things I do not want and you can be free TO do things you want" if you are at that point.

Be totally honest.

Again. i'm curious if there are suggestions about the types (categorically speaking - or* otherwise) of*counsellors/psychiatrists*who would be good for my wife and I -*someone*who neither tries to preserve the marriage nor push*any other agenda - but just help us*find our way..

In case these help you any with the counselor search:

http://polyfriendly.org/index.php

https://www.ncsfreedom.org/images/stories/pdfs/KAP/2010_poly_web.pdf

Galagirl

 

[Patrick]

latest waffling

I told my wife that there's nothing wrong with her wanting to be free... Nothing inherent about that that I think she should ever feel cruddy about.

But I also told her that open marriage - as she and I tend to call it, would make her a dreamwoman sent from heaven to any guy looking for NSA good times... while it would make me un-dateable. She didn't need to hear much before she said '"well let's not do it (open marriage) then"


So I'm thinking, the forecast for me would be lonely and dire, and I'd appreciate any thoughts experiences relating to what could be in it for me, or re. how I've assessed this.


I said I don't want to be an unwanted 'ball and chain' -

yes I've gathered that it's obvious that to the vast majority of women, a man living with wife and kids would find me way too complicated, undesirable and and un-dateable basically..

My wife would surely get a line up all the way across town and I'd get more scorn than interest - for sure little interest as long as my status is married.

I'd have the chance to flirt and make a nice connection lovely women to have them shake my hand and say something like that it had been really nice to meet me but that my situation is way more complicated what she is looking for..