need advice how to manage this

S

swimmingordrowning

New member
I've been married for ten years. Suddenly (at least to me) my husband is interested in fucking the babysitter, having her move into our house, and having a child with her. We have been "discussing" this for three months with a tremendous amount of emotional turmoil for everyone involved, including our children. I'm really conflicted about whether this is something I should try or if I just need to separate myself from him. I feel the strength of their connection, like her as a person, and was totally caught off guard. The first three weeks of their relationship was hidden from me and I am still dealing with feelings of betrayal and shock and anger. I oscillate between understanding and feeling devastated, jealous, dangerous and out of control. Nothing has prepared me for the intensity of my feelings. Should I just divorce him and shut my heart down, or is there some way through this? Help please.
 
There's a way through this, but it does not involve adding a third to your marriage without a lot more consideration.

Also, let me be clear, divorce *is* one way through this. Divorce is a very big, scary thing, and sometimes it is what needs to happen, for the happiness of everyone involved. Don't take it lightly, but also don't rule it out. Also - don't overdramatize it. It's a very big deal, but it doesn't require shutting your heart down.

It's possible to like someone a huge amount without wanting to live with them, or have them participate in your marriage. *If* you were willing to follow your husband's lead in this, you would still require a lot more discussion and information before moving forward. Furthermore, since there are children involved, it's important to move carefully, and avoid the temptations to jump into decisions that will be hard to reverse (like having someone move in) while the new relationship energy is overwhelming.

And if you are not willing to do this, that's okay. That's your call to make. No matter what decision you make here, it has life-changing implications, so I think you need to be very thoughtful about which set of changes you would be more willing to embrace and live out the consequences of. Having a third person suddenly added to your marriage is really not less of a cataclysm than leaving your marriage.
 
I am so sorry. :(

Let me repeat what I understand so I know I got it right. You correct me, ok?

  • Your husband and the babysitter cheated together and hid their affair. You feel shocked, betrayed and angry. You feel devastated, jealous, dangerous and out of control
  • Now that it is out, your husband wants to move her in and make a baby with her.
  • You don't know if you should divorce or agree.

If this is the case?

I would separate and take half the money with me before he shuts me out of accounts. I would seek a counselor to manage the feelings. Then when feeling calmer? I would seek a lawyer and divorce with a cooler head and finish splitting the rest.

He's not treating you lovingly or respectfully. And this is not ethical polyamory. This sounds like trying to whitewash his cheating affair by railroading you into something you don't really want. :(

Galagirl
 
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I agree with GalaGirl.
 
Thank you for responding.
As far as I know, they haven't had physical/sexual contact, but he did stay out with her all night twice before telling me. He says he just wanted to make sure there was something to tell me. I know they have talked about being in love, having a child, etc. Since I found out about their relationship, he has been pressuring me to open up and stop being so emotionally stunted.
This is the only way he can be happy and I shouldn't want to control him and should want him to be happy. He has shown me all of their text messages and has not seen her. He is waiting for me to "work it out" with her and get to a place where I can be happy about this. I guess he is trying. I just don't know if I can do it. Also, not sure at all that she is on board to move in, I think she just wants to get to know him!
 
swimmingordrowning said:
Since I found out about their relationship, he has been pressuring me to open up and stop being so emotionally stunted.
This is the only way he can be happy and I shouldn't want to control him and should want him to be happy.
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So... he's had *how* long to develop all this - his feelings for her, their desire for children, his "Eureka moment" that he's poly? And you're expected to just get it and accept it all in a far shorter period of time (immediately), or you're stunted?

Nope. He's unilaterally changing things on you, and then getting tantrummy when you need time and space to figure it out. Take what you need and don't be railroaded. This is extremely manipulative behavior.

FWIW, he should want you to be happy as well, no? Where's his compassion in all this?
 
Oh just no.

They have been doing whatever they are doing for three weeks. That is far too soon to rationally discuss life-changing plans like moving in together or having a baby. It's so massively new! It could absolutely fall apart because of something *really* basic, like they have huge political disagreements or are deeply incompatible in bed! You brought the babysitter into your life because you needed CHILDCARE, and now he's chasing her in a way that means she's not a good person to provide that (because encouraging connections between your kids and romantic partners is harmful to the children if the relationships don't work out), and whatever time you need to work out your feelings, see a therapist, get your head around what's going on, you first need the time to FIND A NEW SITTER. Which is a chore you had only just accomplished.

You are not being "emotionally stunted." You are just not having the emotional rush that he is having (which makes sense, because you aren't having the affair that he's having). You can want his long-term happiness, and still be deeply concerned for your own happiness, and for the well-being of your children.
 
swimmingordrowning said:
Thank you for responding.
As far as I know, they haven't had physical/sexual contact, but he did stay out with her all night twice before telling me. He says he just wanted to make sure there was something to tell me. I know they have talked about being in love, having a child, etc. Since I found out about their relationship, he has been pressuring me to open up and stop being so emotionally stunted.
This is the only way he can be happy and I shouldn't want to control him and should want him to be happy. He has shown me all of their text messages and has not seen her. He is waiting for me to "work it out" with her and get to a place where I can be happy about this. I guess he is trying. I just don't know if I can do it. Also, not sure at all that she is on board to move in, I think she just wants to get to know him!
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Yes, it sounds like he is trying. I have deep compassion for your partner, because I had been the one who fell in love and pushed to open a relationship (no children, but 3 years monogamous). At that time, I really felt that pursuing my new love was extremely important and staying monogamous wasn't an option - and I still agree with my former self.

Having said that, I still recommend that you separate immediately, for your and your children's sake. You tell him a firm no and if he isn't willing to stop pursuing the idea of dating your babysitter, he has to move out. If he's hesitant, you move out with the kids, as soon as you can manage.
You've been exhausting both of you for three months. You say it affects the children. Our talks before we broke up lasted nearly half a year and they caused unnecessary damage - and the thing I regret the most is pulling it out for so long, to the point of utter exhaustion. When I talked to my ex he said the same - he should have respected himself enough to break up much sooner.
Get a separation, therapy, and time to process your emotions. It may be you need monogamy, and in that case, it would be a terrible idea to agree to his relationship. It may be you could adapt to, or even enjoy, polyamory under better circumstances - but that's not reality.

I'm sorry.

(edit: +1 on the whole following post of tenK, she wrote it better then I could)
 
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In your shoes I would be requesting some space from him to think things through. I'd be asking him to move out. He's lied, he's cheated, and now he's not even giving you time and space to process any of that before asking you to move on and let him basically have a second wife in your home. I echo what others have said in that this isn't polyamory, and add that I think he's acting like a total dick.

I think you need to have a long hard think about what you want. What you guys had is now over. There's no way to bring things back to how they were. But there is a chance for positive change in the future, for both of you. One avenue of positive change could well be divorce. If you are inherently monogamous, then this is almost certainly the best solution. Another avenue is that he accepts how great his betrayal is, and chooses to work on himself to ensure that he is able to keep his future agreements with you. This can go one of several ways: you can both move forward with the intention of keeping your marriage closed, and you guys work hard to rebuild the trust that has been shattered; or you can move forward with the intention to eventually open your relationship, but in the meantime keep it closed until your marriage is healthier.

Make no mistake about it. 1) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one unless both partners are wanting that kind of relationships shape - if one partner is only doing it for the other's sake, it rarely ends well. 2) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when trust between the partners has been destroyed by unresolved cheating. Polyamory needs a lot of positive self-esteem, trust between partners, and good communication skills - those things can all be eroded by, or a factor in, cheating behaviours. 3) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when one of you has a partner lined up waiting in the wings and the other doesn't. It creates an uncomfortable dynamic whereby two people might be pushing the other to be ready, possibly before they are, and also might introduce feelings of envy into the mix. It's also hard to go at a slow pace when a third heart is on the line. 4) It is very hard to transition a monogamous relationship into a polyamorous one when one of you has an intense dislike of the other's proposed partner. She was meant to be your babysitter, in a position of trust, and she also betrayed you. That's going to be hard to overcome, no matter how nice a person she might be.

I would be cautioning you about attempting to open your relationship if you had any of these factors at play. In truth, you have all four, and that sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. :( I'm not sure why your husband thinks he could handle multiple relationships. It sounds like he sucks at communicating, as evidenced by the fact that rather than coming to you at the beginning when he first realised he was attracted to her, he just decided to sneak behind your back. It also sounds like he has fuck all empathy, as evidenced by the fact that he seems to expect you to simply accept this. He also comes across as someone who has poor judgement in general - he's in love with her and wanting her babies after knowing her all of five minutes? Please! :roll eyes:

So. I know this is really hard, but I think you should take a week or two to recover from the shock. To grieve the end of this relationship (even if you decide to stay together - it's still never going to be the same and you need to mourn that). To build yourself up to be as strong as you possibly can be. So that you can come at this decision from a place of strength. Not feeling desperate and clawing and willing to do anything to keep him, but with a calm heart, knowing that whichever way it goes, you and your kids will be fine without him as your husband. You really do need to be at that place, because it's actually the only way you can be sure that he's really willing to step up and change. If he loves you and is serious about having multiple relationships, he needs to be putting in the effort to keep you. He needs to own up to his mistakes and the horrible way he's handled it. He needs to be realistic about the fact that it might not be possible to keep both relationships. Is she even polyamorous herself? Does she want to share him? Is she willing to step back and let you guys work on your marriage, to be supportive even if it means her absence for an indefinite period? It will be a rare occurrence if so. And if you do decide to stay with him, and you guys do decide to open your relationship, is it going to be okay for you to date others? Are you interested in having sex with others? Is he going to help make the time and space (read: step up on his share of child care) to allow you that opportunity? Or does he want this to just be about him and his libido? You have a lot to discuss with him, but seriously, take that time out, ask him to move out for a bit. And make sure you have someone in your face-to-face life that you can talk to about this too. You need support, and you don't need to be running around having to put a brave face on 24/7, and hiding the fact that he's living in a motel. If he freaks out and doesn't want to handle the judgement from others in your lives about his cheating behaviour, then I think that is also quite telling of the kind of person he is. As I said, he needs to own his mistakes and be ready to work his ass off to get you back.
 
So...he's got this whole script in his mind about how his happily ever after looks...and he's trying to pressure you to accept it. When I read the original post and the posts immediately following (and I echo the thought that GalaGirl has a very good perspective on this, as usual)...I was thinking, what about this babysitter? What does she think? What does she want?

I was wondering if you'd asked her, and I was wondering if Mr. Husband had even a clear idea or was just planning to pressure her into going along with his fantasy the way he's pressuring his wife. Is this woman ready or willing to move in and make babies, or is he just so excited about the mental image of this that he's assuming he can convince her if he can just get the wife on board...?

Honestly? I don't like this. I don't feel that his behavior is respectful to anyone. Not just wife, but kids, babysitter...anyone. The lives of other human beings are not his to amuse himself with. I would seriously consider divorcing him, not just because he has had an emotional (or physical) affair...but because he seems to have no problem disregarding the needs and lives of other people.
 
He says he just wanted to make sure there was something to tell me.
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"Honey, I want to poly date. I want to Open the marriage or break up clean if you don't want Open marriage for yourself. Where is your preference?" is something to tell you. Which he did not.

He cheated on current agreements rather than end them or negotiate new ones. And sounds like he's trying to whitewash his bad behavior.

I know they have talked about being in love, having a child, etc. Since I found out about their relationship, he has been pressuring me to open up and stop being so emotionally stunted.
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You are not emotionally stunted for wanting to not leap into a "V" or "triad" or whatever it is he's offering. A person who cheats on his previous agreements is going to be trustworthy keeping his new Open Agreements HOW? :confused: If he's not taking personal responsibility for how his cheating actions have impacted trust between you and he's just pushing you to go along with his bad behavior? Not good.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

And who knows what lies/stories he tells the babysitter?

This is the only way he can be happy and I shouldn't want to control him and should want him to be happy.
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Then he can be happy with the babysitter without you there.

You do not control his behavior. If you could, I am pretty sure you would not have had him cheating in the first place.

You are taking your time to decide what YOUR next behavior will be.

I think he's flipping it around on you -- accusing you of controlling him when really he lacks self control. He sounds like he wants to control your behavior so you just go along with his plan. It's all about him and his plan and what he wants -- never mind how the other people might feel or what they want.

Sounds like he's frustrated you are not thrilled by his idea and he is ramping up the pressure to get his way. To me it sounds like he's bullying you / trying to railroad you into agreeing.

Take the time to think. Don't just agree to whatever because you want his harassment to STOP so you get a break since you already are hurting. Him getting extra digs is not helpful right now.

He's not treating you lovingly or with respect by the sound of it.

Tread carefully.

Galagirl
 
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I agree with everyone else. But I see a third option you could think about together if you are open to the idea of polyamory.

You stop employing the babysitter. He stops seeing her for now and gives you and your relationship the care it needs to recover from a huge betrayal. Then if you feel able and willing in the future they begin seeing one another as friends and working slowly towards being able to have an ethical polyamourous relationship. If they're really that into one another waiting a year or two to be together is hardly a big deal. Particularly if he's not expecting the two of you to be monogamous while he gets both of you.

In a monogamous relationship we wouldn't think moving in and having babies after knowing someone three months was a sensible thing to do. Poly doesn't make any difference in this. Make sure you really know someone and their behaviour patterns and issues by dating them over a number of YEARS before inviting them to live with you and your children.
 
swimmingordrowning said:
Also, not sure at all that she is on board to move in, I think she just wants to get to know him!
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To be blunt...

Falling for the baby sitter is kinda creepy (how old is she?) Hiding his growing feelings from you is dishonest, springing them on you and expecting you to be instantly ok with them is unfair.

But already planning to live with and have a baby with someone he has not even started to date??? That's just plain crazy. And a recipe for disaster if you and she actually agree to it.

You could leave. In your shoes I probably would. But if you do decide to try and find another solution, your husband needs to remember that normal, healthy relationships to not go from zero to pregnant in a few months.
 
Some people try poly as the exit mechanism to get out of their current relationship. It's not always conscious but it's always a shitty thing to do.

Your husband is hitting the self-destruct button hard on his relationship with you. He's living in fantasy land and is having major New Relationship Energy (NRE) delusions, as others have pointed out. This isn't the actions of someone who wants actual poly - he just doesn't want to get blamed for breaking up the marriage. Of course, cheating is also often a way people hit the self-destruct button on relationships so he's two for two. He's behaving terribly.

I am also curious if there is a major age difference between him and the babysitter.

You can decide to see if poly will work for you. But you don't have to accept this situation, this metamour (the partner of your partner - the babysitter would be your metamour in this case). Maybe your marriage is worth enough to you to try and see if this could be done ethically. I see that you are desperately trying to see if that is possible for you.

But he's not really interested in trying poly in any serious way, where he has to be accountable, be open and honest. If he was, he would not have involved the babysitter at all but talked to you first about what is going on with him. (Really, this reads like mid-life crisis.) He just wants to live out a fantasy and isn't thinking through that fantasies hardly ever turn out the way we think they will. Do what you have to to protect yourself and ypur children from the upsetting situation until you either leave him, or he gets a clue.

And I think you mentioned, if I understood correctly, that they have not had sex yet? I also believe that to be bullshit. It's so unlikely that a man wants to move in another woman, wants her to have his babies and they haven't fucked. So yeah, he's likely lying to you about that too.

What an awful mess. And yet, this scenario happens a lot. We get threads about similar stories all the time. Hardly ever, has the original couple been able to move to a place of honesty and trust. It's not out of the realm of possibility but still, think about what you want, for yourself and for your children. (I'm sorry to put their care just on you but sounds like he's not thinking of anyone but himself.)
 
I may be the one person who believes that the husband and the babysitter haven't had sex.

I think if they had gone to bed, there's a solid chance that husband would have started to get this out of his system by now. In the heady, lusty, pre-sex stage of a relationship, many things appear reasonable that are obvious non-starters in the clear light of the morning after.
 
BlueShoes said:
I may be the one person who believes that the husband and the babysitter haven't had sex.

I think if they had gone to bed, there's a solid chance that husband would have started to get this out of his system by now. In the heady, lusty, pre-sex stage of a relationship, many things appear reasonable that are obvious non-starters in the clear light of the morning after.
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That might be a bit of projection from various posters in how they see things, or it might not. I know that personally, I'm not going to be heady, lusty, or whatever prior to sex. It's AFTER, if it was really good, that my chemicals are kicking in and my decisions might become questionable.

I don't know if my gender (female) has anything to do with that, though.

And if so, if men tend to get lusty and fuddled before the first sex, and if women are more at risk of it after (assuming good sexual match)... Then since we are talking about the husband, a male, I would suppose maybe they HAVEN'T had sex.

If I were the player standing in his shoes, though...odds would be good that it had either happened, or come very close, and certainly things had become physical.

Honestly though, I don't think it matters much. In the plotting and scheming, in pressuring you (wife) to agree to something in a situation like this that is life changing...again, it comes to manipulation, disrespect, and utter selfishness. I'd find all of that hard to forgive. Cheating...I wouldn't care that much if my guy banged the babysitter (as long as she's of legal age!)...but all that other stuff, forget it.
 
I don't really care if he had sex or not. It's the cheating on agreements, the entitled sounding attitude, and bullying that bother me. Those are deal breakers to me.

He could have behaved better than that if he was after ethical polyamory.

Instead it sounds like he's treating people like THINGS rather than people. Everyone is just supposed to dance to his tune like he's the puppet master. And not only that, they have to be "happy" about it because he doesn't feel like hearing complaints about how his behavior affects others.

Galagirl
 
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wow

I'm finding it really surprising that this polyamory forum is so unilateral. I came on here because I expected you all to defend him and tell me how to approach opening up to this, instead I'm hearing things I would expect most monogamous people to say. I'm sure I'm not conveying things fairly, but I would like to. The babysitter was a sort of friend of mine, it was her first time meeting my husband and they are the same age. He said it was like a lightning strike when he opened the door, and I could and can definitely feel their attraction for one another. She is theoretically open to polyamory, although she has a track record of breaking up a marriage. She told me she doesn't want me to get a divorce, and she thought I wouldn't care so much. My husband is telling me that I need to embrace this opportunity to grow and mature in love as an adult which means accepting his desire for another relationship and even being happy about it. I'm not sure how to do that. I really would like advice on how to approach that, at the moment I am so jealous and emotionally stunted that I can't see how to embrace his new idea. I believe he is being honest with me and will continue to want to be in relationship with me, but it feels like that is too difficult for me to conceive how to be happy in a non exclusive marriage. My main questions I am stuck on are, why am I not enough for him? Why does he not appreciate what I have given to build this family? Why/how can he consider himself separate from our family? Why does he need something different/outside of what I am giving him? I'm sure these are typical monogamous person questions, and that is probably what I am and definitely what I have been. In fairness to my husband he hadn't heard of polyamory until this came up for him, and it does seem to fit his philosophy and viewpoint. He has backed off from seeing her at my request but is still conversing with her by text message and including interpretations of my reactions and hangups which don't even seem entirely accurate to me. One of my biggest fears is being excluded from their relationship and just feeling like total shit, but I don't know how I would like to be included either. or if that's even possible. I'm wondering if it is something I can try or I'm just setting myself up for destruction. I am interested in growing as a person and a lover and in some ways I understand and can imagine this, until I start imagining it and then I want to hurt someone.
 
I am so sorry. I hope telling some of your story brings you some comfort. You are still in shock and dealing with a lot of stuff.

Should I just divorce him and shut my heart down, or is there some way through this? Help please.
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That was your first request.

FWIW? I am of the opinion that until he owns his poor behavior, you could separate and think about divorce. If it is his habit to bully you, you could decide that is not how you want to be treated. Some things you just have to put your foot down about. Figure out what your things are. Bullying me is one of my big deal breakers. I will not stand for being treated like that.

Here is the link again about transition from cheating to polyamory.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

I expected you all to defend him and tell me how to approach opening up to this,
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You seem to be changing what you are asking for at this point in time. I don't know how useful they might be in your thinking but here's some worksheets:

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

This is about healthy relationships in general

http://www.loveisrespect.org/healthy-relationships/

You can figure out if an Open relationship appeals to you or not.

Thing is, part of the success to poly to me is WHO you pick to poly with and their character. Right now?

Your husband is calling you names and pressuring you.

You describe your friend like this:

  • She has a reputation for breaking up marriages.
  • She went ahead and excused her behavior with "I didn't think you would care so much."

She did not ASK first for all that she is your "friend."

Neither sound forthright. Both sound kinda selfish -- just do whatever and everyone else lumps it. If you want to poly? It doesn't have to be with them. If you prefer monogamy? Still doesn't have to be with him if he's treating you bad.

My husband is telling me that I need to embrace this opportunity to grow and mature in love as an adult which means accepting his desire for another relationship and even being happy about it. I'm not sure how to do that. I really would like advice on how to approach that, at the moment I am so jealous and emotionally stunted that I can't see how to embrace his new idea.
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He's trying to be the boss of you telling you what to do. Why does he do that?

Here's the thing.

You could decide to embrace this opportunity to grow and mature in what you think about Love. But not necessarily in the way your husband sees it. It could happen in the way YOU see it. It doesn't really matter if your husband wants polyamory. It's if YOU do. You could embrace the opportunity to get to know yourself and what you want out of your life and your loving relationships. Articulate how YOU want to be treated in your relationships. Then check if he meets your personal standard or not. Then see if YOU are meeting your standard or not.

Sometimes people go along with things they don't really want hoping it will all go away, or hoping that the other guy will stop doing the hurtful thing. I don't think you can afford to be passive like that here. You could be more assertive.

If you two are not compatible or your spouse is not meeting your standard? You may have to grow in your understanding of that. That maybe there isn't enough here to sustain a healthy relationship any more. Or maybe it's a wake up call of another kind.

However it turns out in the end? I think you need some counseling help now.

There is nothing wrong with wanting monogamy. There is nothing wrong with wanting Open models. But if this is causing you deep visceral emotions of UGH.... you could listen to that and take the time out you need to collect your thoughts. No pressuring from other people. That is just not fair.
There IS something wrong with bullying you.

I'm wondering if it is something I can try or I'm just setting myself up for destruction.
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Sounds like you could sit down and do some soul searching. Which is why I suggested a counselor to help you define and articualte how you feel and what it is YOU want in your relationships. What your values and personal standards are. Then list the pros and cons to see if THIS situation meets the bar or not.

  • You could decide to say "No" to trying a poly V with them because it's too many shenanigans already. You have lost faith in their capabilities and in trusting them. Then you and spouse move on to marriage repair or marriage disbanding. Or ending it here and you moving on to poly with other people who treat you more respectfully.

  • You could state what they have to do to demonstrate they can handle it without all these shenanigans FIRST. If it gets done, AFTER that you agree to try for a while. And you talk about how to end it if you still want to bail.

That's all stuff to work out with a counselor. I strongly encourage you to look up poly friendly counselors in your area and get some professional guidance.

Galagirl
 
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