Need advice - husband wants poly and I don't

[dos]

hi there,
I've just found this forum and am new to the entire idea of poly, but I am in a bit of a crisis moment. I feel like I really need some perspective and ideas from other people and hope this right be the right place. Apologies in advance for any comments that may seem closed-minded... despite very strong feelings about my own life, I have no judgments about others' lifestyles.

Sorry for the long post, but there's a lot of background:

My husband and I have been married for 8 years, together for 11, and have been completely monogamous. I've never had any desire to be anything else, and never had any indication that he did either. For years, we had what I thought was a very satisfying sex life, although pretty vanilla (which was fine with me - and, I thought, with him).

Then we had kids (ages 5 and 2.5). I lost all desire during my first pregnancy and have never really regained it. I also came out of the pregnancies with significant pain during intercourse. I've tried physical therapy, getting help from OB/Gyn, and so far have not found any real solutions. There are of course all the complicating factors of exhaustion, body image after kids, and having very little time to be together. So for the past couple of years we've had intercourse fairly infrequently (maybe a couple times a month) with regular hand jobs and other sexual activities for him more often. We're both clear that it's for him - I don't get much out of it. This is not how I WANT things to be, and my doctors have encouraged me to keep working on it and say it isn't unusual for desire to still be lacking a few years after kids. Our relationship has suffered in other ways too - we don't fight and are good at talking together, but I feel like we have no time for the things we used to love doing together and don't share much of anything these days aside from taking care of our kids.

My husband was fairly patient to begin with, but expressed increasing sexual frustration over the last year or so in particular. He has also begun to talk about increasingly kinky fantasies, has been buying a lot of kinky toys, etc. I've tried handcuffs with him, blindfolds, etc. and am willing to do it, but it leaves me feeling sad and disconnected and leaves him feeling unsatisfied because I'm not into it. He broached chastity about 9 months ago and we've tried that a couple of times. I was initially pretty repulsed by that idea too, but willing to try it because I want him to be happy and satisfied and it seemed like something I could stomach. Sometimes it seemed to be working, but he recently asked to stop again because it was clear I wasn't getting any sexual enjoyment out of it and that wasn't giving him enough of a thrill. I've also been very uncomfortable with the uneven power dynamics - I want to be in an equal partnership with my husband and don't like the idea of dominating him. The idea of him dominating me is completely off the table - I've dealt with sexual assault in the past and still struggle with those issues, and would feel completely unsafe and disgusted by the idea of being dominated.

He's told me very clearly he has a huge unfilled need for some kind of sexual excitement, and it's been causing me a huge amount of stress... it feels like I either have to do something completely unpalatable to me in order to satisfy him, or risk him being miserable or going elsewhere.

Then the bomb dropped. This spring he broached the idea of finding someone else to play with. He did it in the most respectable way imaginable - raising the issue with me as opposed to cheating, asking whether there is any way or any condition under which I could be ok with it, and suggesting it might even relieve our stress. The first time he raised it, he said that if I wasn't ok with it, he'd drop it and not bring it up again. He stressed that he still loves me and wants our marriage to last and doesn't want an emotional attachment to anyone - he just wants an outlet for sexual release and exploration. I was NOT ok with the idea. I felt devastated that he would want to have sex with other women and to learn that he did not define our marriage the way I thought we both did. I made very clear to him that I was committed to trying to find some way to ease his sexual frustrations, but this was an absolute no-go for me.

Things were ok for a couple of weeks until he brought it up again, pushing me to articulate why I wasn't ok with it and really explore that. And I feel absolutely dumb and threatened - I feel like he's just running circles around me with logic and has an answer to everything. Why is it any different than a massage or a doctor touching him? Why is it different than finding someone to play guitar with or do another hobby? I feel so disgusted and deeply hurt by the idea, and yet I can't articulate all the reasons why I feel that way. But I had been seeing my own therapist, and really working to draw boundaries and express/articulate what I WANT in my life, so I did that very clearly... let him know that I was angry and hurt that he didn't hear me last time and brought up again the one thing that I said was off limits. And he seemed to accept that.

Then he wrote me a letter this weekend, articulating even more clearly that he feels an incredibly deep need to explore BDSM with someone who's into that, and that it's very clear I'm not. And that he hopes I can get on board with it because it's not going away. I don't think he's decided what will happen if I cannot. I've spent the last few days pretty much constantly in tears, alternating between anger and grief and paralysis. We've done a lot of talking, but not really getting anywhere. We have been trying to make an appointment with a sex therapist for a month, but we live in a rural area and I think the first time we can get into see someone is probably still a few weeks off. I'll continue to see my therapist and get support and hopefully help articulating what I'm feeling and why I feel so opposed to this.

I've only been able to do that partially:
- so far, he's only shown a pattern of escalating kinky fantasies and not being willing to respect the one line I've drawn. Based on that pattern, I have very little faith that he'd necessarily respect other lines we would draw together.
- I can't think of a scenario of him having a playmate that feels palatable to me. I can't stomach the idea of knowing who he would be with and when and picturing it. I also can't stomach the idea of not knowing, and constantly wondering and dwelling on it.
- Even if he says he has no intention of developing an emotional connection with anyone else, I don't trust that it won't happen. From what I've read, it seems that happens frequently despite intentions to the contrary.
- I desperately want to get back to a relationship where I have sexual desire and we have a satistfying sex life. Picturing him with someone else is such an emotional turn-off to me that I can't imagine wanting to get in bed with him and have him touch me.
- I find the idea of him being a dom and exploring BDSM with anyone repulsive (no offense to anyone who's into that). It triggers my past sexual assault and it feels threatening to me. He's also been interested in being a sub, but that just feels pathetic to me.
- I am so hurt by the notion that he is pursuing his desire for sexual gratification so strongly right now even when he knows how much it is hurting me, and that he might potentially prioritize it over our marriage.
- I've read a number of posts saying poly is only worth trying if the marriage is very strong. I don't feel confident that ours is strong enough right now for this.
- I don't fully understand where his desire is coming from, or accept that it's a legitimate "NEED" (vs. a desire). There are lots of things people desire - sexual or otherwise - that we don't or can't act on for various reasons. I don't understand why this doesn't fall into that category. I fully accept that he is deeply unfulfilled in some area of his life, and fully want to work on that with him. But I don't accept that having a BDSM playmate is the only way he can get fulfillment.
- I fully accept poly as an option for couples who both want it, or at least who both support the idea of it. But even if I can't articulate it, I feel so deeply turned off by the idea that I can't imagine how it wouldn't wreck our marriage.

But I'd really love thoughts/input from people who have experience in this realm. I don't mind hard questions and honest feedback. I know that I need to challenge my thinking. I want to fully explore therapy with him and work on this, but also expect that I may need to make a hard choice between divorce, allowing him to have the open marriage, or not allowing it and forcing him to make the choice.

- Am I naive in thinking that there might be any other way he could get fulfillment? Or once someone decides they want to experiment with BDSM/poly, is that the only option? Might therapy for him help him uncover why he feels this need (and perhaps find another outlet)?
- What's the difference between desire and need?
- Is he naive in thinking he could have a playmate without developing any emotional attachment? Is this really no different than going to see a massage therapist or having a hobby?
-Am I just being selfish and not loving him enough if I don't support him in doing this?
- Any ideas for what could keep him temporarily satisfied if I make a major push to work on my own sex drive? Or things that could satisfy his need for kinkiness without completely repulsing me (knowing that I have VERY limited sexual interests)?
- Anyone in our situation go on to have a happy marriage? Disaster?

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I am sorry that you are going through this difficult time. I don't really have any big answers.

It seems as though what your husband is seeking is some sort of release...but not really poly, in that he doesn't want an emotional connection with someone. I don't really have much experience with BDSM (although poly and BDSM are often linked as "alternative" sexual practices, they are really two different things.)

The thing that I thought of when reading your post was...what if he found a pro-domme? She would be a "pro" - so no sexual contact on her part and little chance of emotional involvement. You may find the idea distasteful - but it might take some of your concerns off the table. (Trying to think of analogies. Not the same thing, but what about a vegan who didn't approve of her husband's hobby of fishing? He goes once a week/month/whatever and charters a boat to enjoy his hobby - he doesn't expect the wife to accompany him, he doesn't bring the fish home, etc.)

This occurs to me only because our girlfriend, Lotus, was a pro-domme when she lived in CA and I know how scrupulous her house was about rules and cleanliness etc. The clients couldn't touch the dommes, no sharing of personal contact info, etc.

 

[graviton]

I'm sorry that you're going through this and I hope you don't take the following response the wrong way. Anything hurtful that you read from most of the people on here is not meant to be that way, we are just being frank and honest in trying to help you come to a solution.

Are you being selfish? I would answer yes. But your husband also is being selfish. You both have needs and right now they are not clicking. It is ok to be selfish when it has to do with responding to our own needs because there is nobody else that will stand up for those needs other than ourselves. He has sexual needs that you are not willing to fulfill, perhaps you are not even able to fulfill them. He keeps bringing up new ideas and you keep shutting them down because you find them gross and unappealing. Typically in situations like this, when consensual non-monogamy is off the table, resentment begins to build. The only way for such a situation to be diffused is

1. he cheats and gets his needs fulfilled elsewhere while still giving you the illusion of monogamy
2. The two of you divorce because of the resentment and sexual incompatibility and he gets his needs fulfilled elsewhere.
3. The two of you workout a solution that is palatable to both of you and proceed into the admittedly scary land of consensual non-monogamy and he gets his needs fulfilled elsewhere.
4. You change your view on his sexual interests and decide to become good giving and game (ggg) so that you can be the one to fulfill his needs.
5. He gives up on his sexual interests and decides to bottle it up and never get them fulfilled while hiding a big side of himself from you, the woman who he should be able to share anything with.

I'm sorry if all of those sound harsh but they are the reality of the situation. Be thankful that you have a husband who has decided to be honest with you and to communicate with you what his needs are and has not gone behind your back and cheated. His desires will not go away and the more he thinks about non-monogamy the more it will make sense to him and the more puzzling it will be as to why you are not willing to at least consider it. It's a very infectious idea and should not be taken lightly from your end of things. You should consider it almost like being married to somebody who has decided to convert his religion to Buddhism after years of being a Christian. A change in religion can tear apart a marriage very easily if both partners are not supportive of it especially if one of the partners is not willing to even consider the idea or talk about it or give a safe space for the other partner to express their ideas. Non monogamy is the same way. I really feel bad for you in terms of your desire for sex and completely understand that is something that you can't help , but just like your lack of desire can't be helped neither can his abundance of desire. You have to find a middle ground or this will destroy your marriage. Even if you were able to find your sex drive again I don't believe that going back to the vanilla sex is going to be able to save your marriage and make things go back to normal. You are most likely going to have to change your outlook either on kinkier sex or non-monogamy. Do yourself a favor and do a Google search for Dan Savage talking about GGG. Here is the Wikipedia entry for him and they talk a little bit about it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Love

 

[KC43]

I'm on my phone so can't type out a long answer. I'll try to add more tomorrow. But basically the difference between desire and need is like the difference between having sex with the same gender because you're curious, vs. being homosexual. The first is a want, maybe. The second is a need; it's hard wired.

People can act counter to their needs, but that doesn't stop them from having the needs.

 

[graviton]

I'm on my phone so can't type out a long answer. I'll try to add more tomorrow. But basically the difference between desire and need is like the difference between having sex with the same gender because you're curious, vs. being homosexual. The first is a want, maybe. The second is a need; it's hard wired.

People can act counter to their needs, but that doesn't stop them from having the needs.

Yes and it never works well. Another thing you have to remember is that the minute you start questioning whether this is a desire or a need is when he gets to start questioning the same thing about you. Do you desire to be monogamous or do you need to be monogamous? Do you desire to only have vanilla sex or do you need to only have vanilla sex? The minute you start trivializing his desires and needs is when yours also become trivialized. Then you will get into a war of ranking which need and which desire on whose part is more important. This line of thought would not end well.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi dos,

Re (from OP):

"Even if he says he has no intention of developing an emotional connection with anyone else, I don't trust that it won't happen. From what I've read, it seems that happens frequently despite intentions to the contrary."

I agree; there is a danger.

Re:

"I desperately want to get back to a relationship where I have sexual desire and we have a satistfying sex life."

Does your husband know this?

Re:

"I've read a number of posts saying poly is only worth trying if the marriage is very strong. I don't feel confident that ours is strong enough right now for this."

No marriage will ever be "perfectly ready." But you can make a strong argument that now is not the time for your marriage.

Re:

"Am I naive in thinking that there might be any other way he could get fulfillment?"

I'm not sure. Do you have any specific suggestions for him?

Re:

"Might therapy for him help him uncover why he feels this need (and perhaps find another outlet)?"

I would think that would be a question for your sex therapist.

Re:

"What's the difference between desire and need?"

Technically we don't *need* anything. We don't even need to live. Beyond that, it becomes highly subjective what counts as a want or a need.

Re:

"Is he naive in thinking he could have a playmate without developing any emotional attachment?"

Not entirely. Some people do manage to have sex with others without getting emotionally involved. However, steps must be taken to avoid emotional involvement, such as not having sex with the same person more than once or twice (before moving on to someone else).

Re:

"Is this really no different than going to see a massage therapist or having a hobby?"

Of course it's different. It's sexual.

Re:

"Am I just being selfish and not loving him enough if I don't support him in doing this?"

No; you're allowed to feel how you feel about things just as much as he's allowed to feel how he feels.

Re:

"Any ideas for what could keep him temporarily satisfied if I make a major push to work on my own sex drive? or things that could satisfy his need for kinkiness without completely repulsing me (knowing that I have *very* limited sexual interests)?"

Are you looking for a way to be kinky without being kinky? I don't have a lot of kink expertise, so, no ideas, sorry. The sex therapist might be able to help. Mostly I think you're going to have to ask your husband directly. Only he can say what would really satisfy him. You'll also have to ask yourself, because I doubt anything'll satisfy your husband unless he knows you like it too. So, is there *any* kind of kink that you'd like? Could you stand to spend some time on FetLife, learning what kinds of kink are out there?

Re:

"Anyone in our situation go on to have a happy marriage? disaster?"

I haven't been in your situation. I do think you'll need to find an area of mutual agreement in order to have that happy marriage though.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Inyourendo]

Whatbif he played with other married poly women in the kink scene? My husband has many fuck buddies and a lot of them have other partners. My husband doesn't get NRE (even with me ) so I haven't felt like I've been in a position where anyone he screwed put my relationship in danger

 

[dos]

Thank you so much for the responses, everyone. What I'm most in need of right now is other perspectives, and yours are very helpful. I don't take anything as hurtful and really need honest opinions.

To @JaneQSmythe, yes, he very clearly seems to be seeking some sort of release. He seems to have his mind made up about exactly what kind he needs, and that it doesn't involve me, which is part of what I find so hurtful right now. At one point he brought up a pro-domme as a possibility, which I do find distasteful (but significantly less so than the idea of him just with a non-pro). But now he says that's much less exciting to him than someone else who's genuinely interested, and I don't think he'd be satisfied with it.

@Graviton, yes, I'm being selfish and so is my husband. You've hit the nail on the head that our needs are not clicking and resentment is building and we both are trying desperately to take care of ourselves without destroying our marriage. But I don't think it's accurate to say that he keeps bringing up new ideas and I keep shutting them down. I've tried everything he's broached with me. Some of it I can't get on board with, some of it I can. None of it excites me sexually, but I'm willing to keep trying new things and even to do things for him that I don't find exciting. But that's not enough for him... he's writing me off and saying that he just wants more and more extreme things and someone who's as excited as he is. I've run down your whole list of options in my head many times (and we've gone over them together) and I'm just having a hard time accepting that there can't be options that he could possibly find a way to fulfill his need without going outside our marriage. THANK YOU for mentioning Dan Savage and GGG... I was not familiar with the concept and it's helpful. I'll read more. But I feel like I'm entirely open to trying to do that and my husband is not even considering that as a possibility.

@KC43... that's exactly what I'm wrestling with. And I'd love to hear from people who have similar desires to what my husband seems to be experiencing. I believe firmly that being gay is biological hard-wiring. I would not say I believe the same thing about sexual fetishes, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. He'd always presented it to me as something he found mildly interesting, but certainly not a core compulsion or part of his identity. Now suddenly he calls it such a deep need that it's worth potentially destroying our marriage. I'm trying very hard to understand what's happening with him. It FEELS like the distinction matters to me in terms of my own choices. But I'm trying to hear @graviton's point too that it's a moot point and this line of thinking won't end well.

@kdt26417...Yes, my husband knows that I want to get back to having sexual desire. As graviton says, my husband feels that even IF I can, he still won't be satisfied. I'm not sure he truly believes that I can, and he doesn't seem willing to wait to find out. My specific suggestions for exploring other avenues were a) to see whether he'd be willing to explore the roots of his need in therapy. he seems not to be, and was offended that I would suggest there's something wrong with it. or b) to find some other fetish or kink that's exciting to both of us. I'm completely willing to spend some time on FetLife learning about this and looking for one. he doesn't seem to be excited by anything I suggest, and assures me that whatever I'll be willing to do, he'll want to do more and more extreme. I don't mean to be asking a stupid question in asking whether this is different than going to get a massage or having a hobby... he's suggesting to me that it's equivalent to those and pressing me to explain why it's not, and "it's sexual" isn't enough of an answer to him. I'm at a loss for words and genuinely searching for help in explaining why it's different.

@Inyourendo... that's basically what he's suggesting, and (at least so far) I can't stomach the idea of him having a fuck buddy. I completely respect that it works for other people, but that's fundamentally not the marriage I thought I had or want to have.

Clearly, the only real solution for us right now is to try to get help and do it fast. Which we're doing. But all of your input and insights are helpful to me in just getting a rapid education about this and helping me think about possibilities outside of conversations with my husband. Truly appreciated.

 

[KC43]

Dos, a few more thoughts on your post, now that I'm on a device where I can actually type...

You ask whether therapy would help your husband uncover why he's interested in kink. May I ask why you think that's a therapy issue at all? For some people, asking why they're Dominant or submissive, or polyamorous, or whatever, is no different from asking why they're gay or straight or bi.

In other words, there isn't a WHY. It's just something that IS.

You seem to be looking at your husband's stated sexual desires as something that's entirely his choice, that he's decided to do because sex within your marriage is boring or vanilla or whatever.

Have you considered the possibility that your husband might have ALWAYS had these desires, and just didn't *express* them before because he was trying to make his sex life with you work? Or because he was afraid of exactly the type of reaction you're exhibiting here? It could be because it's hard to detect intent from text, but your initial post sounds to me like you think his desire to be dominated--or to dominate someone else--is some type of deep-seated mental health issue, or due to underlying problems with him, as opposed to being a valid, healthy way for some people to experience sex.

It might not be healthy *for you*, but that doesn't mean *his* feelings and desires aren't valid, or aren't healthy *for him*. And it doesn't mean he needs therapy to understand why he wants those things.

You *and* he need therapy to sort out your marriage, and to bring better communication, understanding, and respect of each other into the relationship. You express disgust and revulsion toward his desires... of course he isn't going to respond well to that. Your impressions are colored by your past--and I am sorry you've experienced such trauma. (I'm a survivor too. Sometimes the perceptions and impressions left by the trauma seriously suck ass.) But if you're saying things like you feel revulsion about his desires, and that you can't (or won't) see them as a legitimate need instead of just something he feels like doing, you're closing a lot of doors between the two of you.

Even if you don't completely understand, if you're talking to him the way you've phrased your first post, you're showing him judgment, disgust, and disrespect. (I'm not saying he's being any more respectful of you, but we don't have his viewpoint here, only yours.) You aren't giving him any reasons to respect you, or to want to work on the marriage; you're showing him that you're closed-minded and that you can't or won't acknowledge his right to have sexual desires and needs that don't match yours. I'm not talking about you giving your blessing to him *exploring* those desires with other people. I'm only talking about you accepting and respecting that he HAS them. Right now, that seems to be something you aren't capable of doing.

I get that this isn't an easy situation for you. But if you want to improve your marriage and improve sex between you and your husband, you could try to at least speak to him in a more understanding, respectful way. You could *try* to open your mind a bit to the possibility that BDSM is a valid thing for some people, and so is polyamory.

I'm submissive; I've always been submissive, even before I knew much of anything about sex in general, let alone kink. Sometimes I do legitimately NEED someone I trust and respect to be dominant toward me sexually. For me, being submissive is no different from being straight or being polyamorous. There isn't a WHY. It's just who and how I am. I don't need therapy to sort any of that out. Sometimes I need therapy to remind me that it's OKAY for me to be who I am, and it's OKAY for me to tell my partners what I need, but I don't need therapy to find out "why" I'm submissive, or poly, or heterosexual.

Even if you can't get behind having your husband act on his kinks and sexuality, can you at least work your way around to believing it's okay for him to HAVE those kinks and sexual interests? Or do you genuinely believe that it isn't okay?

If you don't think it's okay for him to want those things--whether or not he acts on them--then your marriage has deeper problems than you realize. In a relationship, barring abuse or criminal behavior, you accept your partner wholeheartedly, and even if you aren't interested in the same things as them, you support and respect their interests. At least that's how I see it. You don't seem to be accepting your husband as a whole person; you accept him with conditions and reservations, and one of those conditions seems to be that he not have kinks or sexual interests that you don't share.

I hope that the two of you are able to see a therapist *together*, and that the therapist can help you learn to work *together* on improving your marriage. And can help both of you learn to be more open-minded and respectful of each other's sexualities and sexual interests.

 

[FallenAngelina]

... you accept him with conditions and reservations, and one of those conditions seems to be that he not have kinks or sexual interests that you don't share.

Astute observation, KC, and I'll add that this concept permeates our society as one of the hallmarks of a "good" marriage, but is actually tearing couples apart. How vastly fewer divorces would there be if we (as a society) allowed individuals to be even somewhat sexually autonomous? The expectation that one special and exclusive person will fulfill us in every conceivable way for decades on end is achieving the opposite of its intended purpose. Most couples who remain together for 40+ years are either heavily suppressing their sexuality (in which case their sex life is pretty unsatisfying) or they are finding ways to quietly allow for separate sexual explorations. Most of the latter group choose cheating because it's culturally acceptable and so prevalent, but an increasing number are choosing ethical non-monogamy. Dan Savage is indeed a great resource for familiarizing yourself with this concept, far beyond GGG, which speaks to being a participant. The very idea of open sexual relationships is something that needs to be explored if you're to come to some peace with your husband and there are many good people who have a lot of good stuff to say about it. You can search "Dan Savage monogamy" on YouTube and listen to some great discussion. He is personable and funny and not "weird" in the least.

 

[dos]

May I ask why you think that's a therapy issue at all? For some people, asking why they're Dominant or submissive, or polyamorous, or whatever, is no different from asking why they're gay or straight or bi.

In other words, there isn't a WHY. It's just something that IS.

KC43, I don't think that it's a therapy issue - I'm just trying to understand it and learn whether it might or might not be. That possibility comes to my mind, and I wanted to ask opinions here in part to educate myself. If it's absolutely cut-and-dry, this is just something that people are or aren't, then I want to learn that precisely so I can come to accept him. This is not an area where I have any knowledge to fall back on. It occurs to me that it might be a therapy issue for two reasons: first, his growing extreme fantasies and needs seem to have emerged so clearly out of our marital and sexual struggles, which is completely understandable. he readily acknowledges that he has felt frustrated, lonely, abandoned, impotent, and powerless because of the lack of sex over the past few years. I could understand an increasing desire for BDSM and dominance/submission in the context of these very legitimate problems. I'm trying to understand whether that's a possibility, or whether interest in BDSM/poly is always simply an inherent need in and of itself. Second, I think therapy is not always about addressing a mental defect, but about solving a problem. We have a very real problem together. There's nothing wrong with fantasies, but if he chooses to act on them that may very well end our marriage. I've been seeing a therapist individually for awhile to try to address how I am because I want to find a solution that works for us - not because I think there's something wrong with me. I'm raising the question of whether he could do the same.

You seem to be looking at your husband's stated sexual desires as something that's entirely his choice, that he's decided to do because sex within your marriage is boring or vanilla or whatever.

Have you considered the possibility that your husband might have ALWAYS had these desires, and just didn't *express* them before because he was trying to make his sex life with you work? Or because he was afraid of exactly the type of reaction you're exhibiting here?

I firmly believe that it feels very real to him, which I guess is all that matters, and I don't believe that it was his choice to have the desires or not. I do believe it's his choice to act on them or not, and am genuinely trying to understand whether there's any other way he could be fulfilled. I have absolutely considered the possibility that he's always had these desires and have talked with him directly about it. He's said he's always found some of this (BDSM) interesting, and it's not news to me that he likes handcuffs. We've been talking openly together about this for years. But he's always described it as a passing interest - something he could take or leave. Very suddenly he's started describing it as a non-negotiable need and a core part of who he was. I'm trying to understand that shift.

It could be because it's hard to detect intent from text, but your initial post sounds to me like you think his desire to be dominated--or to dominate someone else--is some type of deep-seated mental health issue, or due to underlying problems with him, as opposed to being a valid, healthy way for some people to experience sex.

It might not be healthy *for you*, but that doesn't mean *his* feelings and desires aren't valid, or aren't healthy *for him*. And it doesn't mean he needs therapy to understand why he wants those things.

I do not believe it is a deep-seated mental health issue. I believe it's possible the sudden escalation from passing interest to need is more a reflection of problems in our marriage or other more complicated needs that he is facing than an inherent need for BDSM and/or poly. I'm trying to understand whether that could be the case or whether I'm flat out wrong. I'm wrestling with my gut reaction vs. a logical understanding. As much as he has needed to be honest with me about what he is feeling and needing, I need to be honest with him. It feels absolutely threatening to me. That may not be a valid perspective, but it's what I feel at the moment. I'm trying to figure out whether I can shift in that, and whether he can shift in what feels like a rigid stance for him.

You *and* he need therapy to sort out your marriage, and to bring better communication, understanding, and respect of each other into the relationship. You express disgust and revulsion toward his desires... of course he isn't going to respond well to that. Your impressions are colored by your past--and I am sorry you've experienced such trauma. (I'm a survivor too. Sometimes the perceptions and impressions left by the trauma seriously suck ass.) But if you're saying things like you feel revulsion about his desires, and that you can't (or won't) see them as a legitimate need instead of just something he feels like doing, you're closing a lot of doors between the two of you.

Even if you don't completely understand, if you're talking to him the way you've phrased your first post, you're showing him judgment, disgust, and disrespect. (I'm not saying he's being any more respectful of you, but we don't have his viewpoint here, only yours.) You aren't giving him any reasons to respect you, or to want to work on the marriage; you're showing him that you're closed-minded and that you can't or won't acknowledge his right to have sexual desires and needs that don't match yours. I'm not talking about you giving your blessing to him *exploring* those desires with other people. I'm only talking about you accepting and respecting that he HAS them. Right now, that seems to be something you aren't capable of doing.

We are trying to get help as fast as we can, together. I'm thinking hard about what you've said here. He's again pressed me to be completely honest, and not hold back how I'm feeling. But I absolutely don't want to be judgmental or reject who he is. I'm not sure how to reconcile those two things. I don't think I've ever expressed that he doesn't have a right to have sexual desires that don't match mine - I've been very open to exploring some of what he wants. It simply doesn't excite me and sometimes makes me feel lousy. I'm having a harder time wrapping my head around his need to dominate a woman because of my past trauma. But I do want to question the language I've used about this and be more careful about it; I really appreciate this distinction. I think as well that I've been more inclined toward emotional ranting here - I came onto this board in part because I want to sort through these questions and hear other opinions outside of my conversations with him.

I get that this isn't an easy situation for you. But if you want to improve your marriage and improve sex between you and your husband, you could try to at least speak to him in a more understanding, respectful way. You could *try* to open your mind a bit to the possibility that BDSM is a valid thing for some people, and so is polyamory.

I'm submissive; I've always been submissive, even before I knew much of anything about sex in general, let alone kink. Sometimes I do legitimately NEED someone I trust and respect to be dominant toward me sexually. For me, being submissive is no different from being straight or being polyamorous. There isn't a WHY. It's just who and how I am. I don't need therapy to sort any of that out. Sometimes I need therapy to remind me that it's OKAY for me to be who I am, and it's OKAY for me to tell my partners what I need, but I don't need therapy to find out "why" I'm submissive, or poly, or heterosexual.

Even if you can't get behind having your husband act on his kinks and sexuality, can you at least work your way around to believing it's okay for him to HAVE those kinks and sexual interests? Or do you genuinely believe that it isn't okay?

I think I'm already there - at least 95% of the way. I think it's ok for him to have kinks and interests. I'm not yet understanding or accepting why he has to pursue them with other people instead of me. And if he truly does - in which case I will absolutely accept him - I'm not at all clear on whether I can still have a marriage with him. That's the biggest question, and it's me who has to answer it.

If you don't think it's okay for him to want those things--whether or not he acts on them--then your marriage has deeper problems than you realize. In a relationship, barring abuse or criminal behavior, you accept your partner wholeheartedly, and even if you aren't interested in the same things as them, you support and respect their interests. At least that's how I see it. You don't seem to be accepting your husband as a whole person; you accept him with conditions and reservations, and one of those conditions seems to be that he not have kinks or sexual interests that you don't share.

I'm not sure that's quite a fair assessment (though understand you are just doing your best to interpret based on what I wrote). I'm trying very hard to accept him as a whole person - I'm just starting from a position of very suddenly not knowing who he is anymore or understanding this side of him.

I hope that the two of you are able to see a therapist *together*, and that the therapist can help you learn to work *together* on improving your marriage. And can help both of you learn to be more open-minded and respectful of each other's sexualities and sexual interests.

THANK YOU. I truly value your time, and honesty, and willingness to share your experiences too.

 

[Inyourendo]

My husband has many fuck buddies that he isn't wmotionally emotionally connected with but I don't even think he's capable of that. If your husband is interested in kink he can go to local fetish events and be around kinky people and even do some scenes without actually having sex with anyone. As far as being poly goes if he agreed to only aee other poly folk that could reduce the fear of abandonment

 

[KC43]

Dos, thank you for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended. I didn't mean to come across as harsh, and I'm glad it also came across that I was trying to help and understand.

The most likely reason your husband wants to explore his desires with people other than you is because, as you say, you aren't comfortable with them. He doesn't want you to do things you aren't okay with, but he feels the need to do those things. His options are to deal with you doing them anyway and being unhappy and uncomfortable; or to do them with other people; or to completely ignore that side of himself and deny his needs and desires, which it sounds like he's been doing much of this time.

Your options are to do things you aren't okay with doing; or to allow him to explore with others; or to deal with him ignoring his needs and desires and being unhappy and uncomfortable.

If you and he can't reach a middle ground, then you may not be able to continue the marriage, at least not as it currently stands. If one of you is completely ignoring their own comfort level and wants and needs, and is unhappy and uncomfortable because of it, that's unfair to *both* of you, in my opinion.

I'm glad you clarified your intent here, and that you do understand that even if you don't comprehend the desires themselves, they're okay desires for someone to have. Therapy is definitely a means of solving problems; the way your initial post was phrased sounded to me like you thought the problem was that your husband had the desires and therapy would "fix" him. I'm glad to know that isn't how you're seeing it.

Regardless of why he's suddenly *expressing* those needs and desires, though, that doesn't mean that's why he *has* them. As I said in my previous post, it's entirely possible that he has always felt this way but was trying to ignore the needs and desires to keep on happy or at least content terms with you; now that things aren't happy and content in your marriage, he's finding it harder to ignore what he needs.

BDSM, and poly, and sexual partner, and any type of sexual activity definitely can be choices. I can *choose* to dominate someone, but I'm not dominant and don't have that need. (And honestly never would dominate someone, I have the same emotional reaction to that prospect as you, though it's cool if other people want to dominate someone.) I could *choose* to have sex with a woman despite being straight. I could--and did, for many years--*choose* to live monogamously despite being polyamorous.

Only your husband knows right now whether he *needs* BDSM or just *wants* it. But if he's expressing it as a need, it might be beneficial to both of you if you tried to see it that way.

As for whether you feeling threatened is a valid perspective--OF COURSE IT IS. Anything you feel is valid. Whether it's an *accurate* perception or not doesn't make it any less valid. You have as much right to feel what you feel as your husband has to feel what he feels. The trick is finding a middle ground where you both accept and respect each other's feelings, and where your actions and words aren't hurtful to each other.

 

[Dagferi]

I apologize now for my post. I am not one to beat around the bush and I am a very blunt to the point kind of person. A lot of other posters here are much more eloquent than I am and have already covered some of what I am going to cover. I was going to answer your questions yesterday but I was over at Murf's house and typing a long drawn out answer on my smart phone just wasn't happening.

For a quick cliff notes version of my personal point of view. My husband Butch is very much into BDSM. He for years (over a decade) has tried to suppress his BDSM needs because he knows a lot of his wants creep me out. On the other hand I am the poly one.

- Am I naive in thinking that there might be any other way he could get fulfillment?

Yes you are naïve to think that there is a way to get his BDSM needs met. All you are going to do is build resentment if you force yourself to partake in activity you are not interested in. And he will resent you if you constantly dismiss his needs to meet his BDSM needs.

Or once someone decides they want to experiment with BDSM/poly, is that the only option?

You don't experiment with polyamory. You are playing with peoples feelings and that is wrong. As for BDSM I have found that those who are truly into BDSM aren't experimenting it fills a need.

Might therapy for him help him uncover why he feels this need (and perhaps find another outlet)?

You make it sound like there is something wrong with your husband. Why not accept him the way he is? Maybe there is something wrong with those of us who are vanilla. Would you tell a LGBT person they need therapy because there is something wrong with them?

- What's the difference between desire and need?

A need is a preference or desire that you've decided must be gratified to maintain equilibrium, that is, you can’t be well or feel whole without it.

A desire is something you would like to try but you do not need to feel whole or fulfilled.

- Is he naive in thinking he could have a playmate without developing any emotional attachment? Is this really no different than going to see a massage therapist or having a hobby?

My husband Butch has play partners who he has no emotional attachment with other than trust and friendship. There is nothing sexual between them. It is an outlet for his BDSM needs that I cannot meet. Butch is monogamous.

-Am I just being selfish and not loving him enough if I don't support him in doing this?

No, you are not being selfish if his having outside play partners are not something you can handle. But it would be selfish to keep him in a relationship he would be miserable in.

- Any ideas for what could keep him temporarily satisfied if I make a major push to work on my own sex drive? Or things that could satisfy his need for kinkiness without completely repulsing me (knowing that I have VERY limited sexual interests)?

No there is nothing you will be able to do the pacify him until you work on your sex drive without destroying a piece of yourself. Sex drive has nothing to do with kink. I am the one with the sex drive of a teenage boy. Butch cannot keep up with me. Hell even having TWO husbands there are many times I am not satisfied. I have no urge to partake in BDSM. I am very vanilla in my sexual tastes.

I tried to make Butch happy and tried to play along with his BDSM needs. For years. I tried finding kink I could go along with. All I managed to do was hate Butch. It felt like a fucking job. Something I had to do to make my husband happy. I felt dirty nasty used.. It impacted my self esteem.

- Anyone in our situation go on to have a happy marriage? Disaster?

Yes we came out the other side ok. It took a lot of work on both our parts. Butch has accepted that I am polyamorous. That I have another man in my life that I love with all my heart. I have accepted that he needs the BDSM to be whole.

 

[tenK]

Hello. I just wanted to chime in on a very specific detail: the idea of you participating in sexual things with him but not getting any actual thrill or excitement or enjoyment out of it. I can completely understand your husband's reaction here - it is 100% not the same doing something - anything, really - with someone who does not receive gratification from that thing, and doing it with someone who does. In fact, it is a huge turn-off. It can ruin the enjoyment from the act in its entirety and I suggest you take it off the table of options right now. Particularly given what you have shared about your past abuse, that's just not an option that seems healthy for either of you.

More generally though...

I think you need to realise that none of this is a rejection of you. You and your husband are just rubbing up against the hardest edge of monogamy. In making sexual exclusivity a cornerstone in your relationship with another, you are wholeheartedly making them responsible for your sexuality and its expression, and in turn, accepting responsibility for theirs. Sometimes that can be a beautiful thing. When I see monogamy working well, it's because two people went into that arrangement with one another and either a) their sexuality never changed, or b) it changed only in ways that were compatible with their partners. Your sexual desires have both changed a lot from when you met and made that commitment to exclusivity, and not in ways that are compatible. That is no ones fault. Really. Those things happen, and I suspect very much that the loss of intimacy between the pair of you that you think is the trigger for his developing interests is not causal. It might be something worth fixing in its own right, for its own reasons, but not with the idea that it can change how your husband feels about his sexuality and desires now.

I think the couples therapy will help you better communicate, and provide you with tools to help you guys make the changes required to stay together as a couple. But I do think changes need to be made. You seem clear that at this point you don't want to dissolve your partnership with him. It also seems clear from any reasonable ethical stance that you cannot subsume his sexual desires with yours. Your sexual needs do not trump his. By that logic, your sexual desires should not be subsumed by his either. Anyone forcing anyone to do something they do not want to do is just plain wrong - but believe me 'no sex/little sex/not-the-kind-of-sex-I-want-right-now' is just as bad as being forced to have any kind of sex full stop IF it is also combined with a 'you can't have sex with anyone else'. It's just all kinds of icky.

The only other option I see is the one your husband is suggesting: to renegotiate your joint commitment to sexual exclusivity. If that is something that is inextricably tied up with your marriage to him in your eyes, then that means your best option is to dissolve that marriage now and start working on ways to be co-parents (and loving friends) rather than spouses. However, if you can come to accept that sexual exclusivity was just one of many things in your wedding vows (and if we're talking traditional western Christian flavoured vows here, forsaking all others comes AFTER all the having and holding, for richer, for poorer, in sickness, in health), and that it's not the key thing holding it all together, then you have a way forward. A hard way, to be sure, but a hopeful way.

Try to bear in mind as well that your husband hasn't come to you saying he is polyamorous, or wants multiple loving relationships. He hasn't come to you saying he no longer wants a sexual relationship with you either. He has come to you saying he still wants be your husband, and to keep loving you, sharing his life, raising your family, and fulfilling your dreams together. But he also wants to be able to fully explore his body and sexuality with someone who will genuinely enjoy sharing that experience with him. I think this is where he gets his (perhaps a bit misguided) hobby analogy from. Maybe I can help him flesh it out with an example of my own. I like to run really long distances. Some of my friends like to run really long distances too. My best friend hates to run - in fact, she cannot run without pulling up and wheezing and coughing and spluttering after a minute or so. It would be madness for me to say, 'well, you're my best-friend. I love to run, so you should learn to love to run too'. Much better for me to go running with my friends that are into running. Even though I have a much better time doing some things with my best friend, that is something in particular that I get far more pleasure out of doing with others than with her.

Interestingly enough, even though my best friend hates running herself, she enjoys that I enjoy it, and will happily let me waffle on about it, or cut out newspaper articles about it for me that she thinks I might find interesting. Our friendship is still very inclusive of my running, and it's still a part of me that she knows well. My love of running, and my ability to do that without her, actually strengthens our relationship because a) it allows her to know me fully (no living in the runner's closet for me), b) allows me an outlet for my passion that respects her interests, c) gives me perspective to understand her strange desires to write songs and perform them in public to strangers (well outside my comfort zone, I can tell you) and d) helps us both to better appreciate all the great things we do have in common. That last point might be a bit controversial to some, but I have struggled in my past (as many do) in taking certain people in my life for granted, and so anything that highlights reasons why I should cherish my loved ones is a Very Good Thing. Anyway, that turned into quite the ramble. I will leave it there. I know that this must feel absolutely horrible, for both of you, and I wish you all the best. Keep asking questions, of him and of yourself, and of us if you find it helpful. There is a friendly mail-list/online support group on the Yahoo Groups page for monogamous people with polyamorous partners which you might also find useful. It's just called PolyMono. You can PM me if you have trouble finding it.

 

[Nadya]

Other people have given valuable advice in this situation. I am going to chime in with one detail: re: the escalating fantasies the husband has.

I have witnessed the change in my husband in his sexual orientation. He claimed to be straight as we got married and later on realized his bisexual side that he had been suppressing for a very long time. For me personally that was not a problem at all, and I encouraged him to find men to fulfill his sexual fantasies with. I do remember the time right before his first ever homosexual experience - the fantasies did grow to be very intense.

With this experience I do not find the fantasizing abnormal at all. He has given himself permission to let his thoughts fly free, and this is the result. If he gets to experiment (yes, I'd call the first BDSM experiences experimenting) he might find out that not all he ever fantazised about is his cup of tea - and find out what actually is.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from dos):

"I believe firmly that being gay is biological hard-wiring. I would not say I believe the same thing about sexual fetishes, but I'm willing to be proven wrong."

That would be a hard thing to prove. You'd have to be able to show that some specific gene determined sexual fetishes. I don't think genetic research has advanced that far yet.

Re:

"I'm trying very hard to understand what's happening with him."

Mid-life crisis?

Re:

"Yes, my husband knows that I want to get back to having sexual desire. As graviton says, my husband feels that even *if* I can, he still won't be satisfied."

Because he wants kink and you don't?

Re:

"I'm not sure he truly believes that I can, and he doesn't seem willing to wait to find out."

He wants kink immediately?

Re:

"I'm completely willing to spend some time on FetLife learning about this and looking for [some other fetish or kink that's exciting to both of us]."

That's commendable on your part.

Re:

"He doesn't seem to be excited by anything I suggest, and assures me that whatever I'll be willing to do, he'll want to do more and more extreme."

It's a shame that he won't let you try.

Re:

"I don't mean to be asking a stupid question in asking whether this is different than going to get a massage or having a hobby ..."

No worries, it's not a stupid question.

Re:

"'It's sexual' isn't enough of an answer to him."

Well jeezh. I wonder if any answer would be enough to him.

 

[LizziE]

I think you've gotten a lot of great suggestions from people, specifically about what might need to happen, and about how the two of you might have needs that are so wildly different that it's going to be very hard to find a middle ground, though going to therapy hoping to find one is a great idea.

What I wanted to address (that has been addressed somewhat, but not entirely) are the ideas about kink & BDSM being a need versus a desire.

For myself, BDSM is definitely a need. It is a thing that I literally cannot orgasm without. If I'm not actually doing something kinky or power-exchange-y, sex can still be fun, but it's more of a physical exercise (in the most literal sense, like horizontal cardio) than anything else.

My first experiences that involved sex all involved sexual assault. The very first one, which I repressed for a really long time, was overhearing my cousin's husband raping her, after he came home drunk. I was (I think) around eight at the time (definitely under ten). Towards the end of high school, one of my teachers initiated a relationship with me, and just out of high school, he raped me. I'd actually characterize all the sex we had as rape, as I shut down and dissociated myself the first time he raped me (which was was only experience that involved overt coercion), and every time he initiated sex about after that, I shut down and was entirely passive.

So realizing that I was kinky and a submissive (technically a switch, but much more on the submissive end of things) was an extremely hard thing to process. I was in denial about it for years. Then I spent years being angry at myself, feeling hateful towards myself, and feeling horribly fucked up and broken.

The main thing that caused me to work through my need for BDSM and kink was that denying it felt like dying. The longer I denied it, the worse it felt, until I couldn't deny it anymore. And then I finally started working on it, and owning it, and learning to accept myself as I am. It look years, but I am in a place where I am comfortable with who I am, including the kinky parts of who I am.

So, for your husband to feel it's a need -it probably is.

How is he generally on respecting your boundaries? You say you've been together for 11 years - does he generally respect your boundaries? Because if he does, but on this one thing he keeps pushing, that sounds like a sign that it really is a "I need this or I'll die" thing. And if it's been building for a really long time before he broached it with you, he might be feeling a really intolerable pressure about it. Myself, when I was in denial about being kinky, but had sex regularly, I had some fantasies that I sort of refused to admit that I was having, even to myself (so I never thought about them, unless I was actually having them while having sex), but those were what got me through having sex in my non-kinky days. Interestingly enough, it was dating a man who had a pretty low libido (we eventually were having sex once every month or two) that was partly what caused my kinky side to finally express itself. Because we rarely had sex, and I had a much higher sex drive, I started looking for porn to masturbate to, and since the only porn that worked was kinky porn (and holy shit, did it work), it was months of looking at kinky porn that started to sort of push me out of myself.

It really sucks that it took him so many years to come out with this. And also, it's worth mentioning that many people who are into BDSM don't have the life experiences that I did (for the record, I'm uncertain how much my life experiences contributed to my desires. I started masturbating at a very young age, and I always thought about "naughty" things, so it could well be that I just had bad luck with life experiences, but always was kinky). A number of my close friends who are kinky had entirely normal childhoods and adolescences with no personal sexual violence, but did turn out to be kinky. It seems to be just the way some people are, though like many things, it's on a sliding scale, so the less kinky people can generally "get by" with light kink. I have a coworker who does not, in any way, shape, or form, identify as kinky, but we've talked about our sex lives and she is definitely mildly kinky. But because it's mild, and she (like many people) has an idea that kink is all crazy leather corsets, and hard-core chains, suspension and beating, she continues to believe she's vanilla and just "likes some biting and being held down a little".

If it's not possible for you to change your thinking and get to a point where you'd be comfortable with BDSM OR with him trying BDSM with others, then it sounds like you sadly may need to divorce, and I am very sorry for that. It sounds like you both love each other very much, and really enjoy each other on many levels. I think the hardest thing about your husband waiting so long to broach this with you is that he waited too long, and now he might not be able to keep waiting while you get adjusted to it. But OTOH, if the two of you know each other really well, then he probably knew how you would react and maybe held off because he was hoping it was a phase or something that he'd be able how to figure out handle just himself.

I really loved the boyfriend who I was with when I realized that I was kinky. I thought he might be someone I'd want to marry, if he was interested in marriage (he wasn't at the time). As kink became too much for me to ignore and I started facing up to it, I did it all alone too, hoping that if I got comfortable masturbating to kinky material, that would be enough. It wasn't though, and me being kinky and him having no interest in kink are one of the major things that broke us up.

I know a lot of this isn't going to feel particularly great to read, if your main desire is to keep your marriage intact without doing anything kinky or letting your husband do kinky things solo. I think the main thing I'm trying to communicate is that if he's saying that this is that important, it probably is, and if you've never had problems like this before, chances are good that you are hitting up against one of those life-important things for him that just can't be denied. If you are unable to stay together because of those things, I hope it's clear that he's not necessarily giving up easily on the two of you. This is really tough stuff to try to deal with, especially if you kept it hidden from yourself for a really long time and built up a very entwined life with a wife and children that would not at all be supportive to those needs.

That said, I really hope that the two of you are able to figure out something in therapy that will allow to you both be happy with each other and get all your needs fulfilled.

 

[graviton]

DOS. To me I think the clearest route to getting through this is to seriously face your fears and start contemplating non monogamy. Really dig into it and understand it and share all of your fears and thoughts with your husband. This educational process could really help build intimacy between the two of you. Learn about the different kinds of non-monogamy. Everybody has a different flavor for doing it that works for them but may not work for others. For instance

1. fuck buddies with no emotional attachment
2. friends with benefits
3. don't ask don't tell
4. kink friends where sex doesn't happen but all of the other trappings involved in BDSM does
5. Poly where they are fully emotional and intimate relationship is established with the understanding that that person is secondary to your marriage
6. Poly where there is no hierarchy and everybody is just as important and no rules are dictated from a third party
7. swinging parties where you never meet the same person twice and it is always in the presence of your spouse

I think if you were to really think about all of the options and fully digest and accept them as valid ways to conduct a relationship then you might find something that works for you and him. Being new at this means that you really haven't put the thoughts through their paces so it's impossible for you to become comfortable with it if you haven't really become educated on the matter. In exchange for your time and commitment to educating yourself on this perhaps he could give you something in return. Maybe you could negotiate more intimate and vanilla sex and more importantly more time to think about your options while you grow comfortable and educate yourself. Ask for 6 months to delve into this together and then reconvene and see what your next move should be.

 

[Vicki82]

Dos, I just wanted to express my condolences. As someone who is in the middle of a life altering experience myself, I am sure you are just hoping that this will go away and life can go back to normal.

Unfortunately, it's not going to go away, and I believe it's unlikely that this genie is going to go back in the bottle. I know some people who can take or leave BDSM, but it sounds like this is really important to him and he might need to have it in his life to be happy. It sounds like he's doing his best to communicate with you and treat you fairly because he loves you and wants to make things work.

I'm sure you feel blindsided, right? Things seemed to be fine and this just came out of the blue? But please keep in mind that even though you are doing your best to fix your sex drive, this became your normal. So you were at least "okay" with the status quo while he felt his needs going unmet. It likely built up for him and you may not have noticed anything was wrong, because in your mind, it was being dealt with.

And honestly, if my spouse told me that they found my sexual desires gross or that it made them feel dirty, or that they thought of me as pathetic, I wouldn't be all that eager to make myself vulnerable and experiment with them. It takes a lot of courage to talk to your partner about sexual needs and fantasies. I am sorry about your history of abuse. That's a terrible thing that you had to go through and I can understand why you're a little squicked about BDSM. But imagine how your husband must feel to be rejected about something so private.

I'm Dominant, and just for the record, none of the people I play with is pathetic in any way because they let me call the shots. If you think that picturing your husband as a submissive makes him pathetic, do you think the same way about female submissives?

My marriage didn't end as a result of me becoming poly and Dominant, but if my stbxH had drawn a line in the sand about it, I would have left him. Even my stbxH mentioned that when we closed our relationship for three months that he could see how depressed and unhappy I was. I can't date vanilla anymore; I need to have kink in my life. It's part of who I am, just like my sexuality, and I know I won't be happy denying it. Oh, and just FYI I've never had anything unusual happen sexually in my formative years, nor have I ever been abused in any way.

I would never say change your boundaries if this is something that is going to make you miserable or unhappy. You deserve to be happy just as much as he does. And even reluctantly saying yes and then being unhappy isn't fair to either of you; if you agree to opening your marriage in some variation, you need to be fully on board. But if you really can't be happy with him exploring his sexuality, then be willing to let him go. Sometimes we become incompatible with our partners, and it's heartbreaking, but we can't continue on and be happy together. Not every relationship is meant to be for a lifetime.

*hugs* take care of yourself.