Need advice on moving on from a poly emotional affair

TCrowe

New member
I made a post not too long ago, so if you recognize described events and names, that's why. If you haven't read my previous post, that's fine. I'll be writing a summary here.

Essentially, the involved parties are myself, my husband 'Jean', and a recently met mutual friend 'Sherry'.
Jean and Sherry had a very quick connection when first meeting in person (previously we've only know each other over discord, but we all met up for a group movie night). Jean and I had discussed non-monogamy before, but had never had the opportunity to explore more than theory. He asked me after the second or third in-person meeting if we could pursue Sherry as a potential partner in a triad (which I now know is a classic poly rookie mistake thanks to my last post), but I was highly uncomfortable with the age gap between Sherry and myself (about 10 years gap, with Jean's age falling solidly in the middle). I suggested he form his own relationship with Sherry (V type), but he was fairly adamant about involving me, so I (reluctantly, I'm a people pleaser unfortunately) agreed that we could revisit it again *if and only if* Sherry was the one who approached us about the subject. Which she did, a little less than 2 weeks later.

I found out after the fact that Jean had been messaging her frequently during that time, in a very flirtatious manner. Worth noting here that Sherry had just been subject to a very emotionally devastating rejection from an individual that she had devoted a lot of time and effort into and been strung along until this person revealed they'd been seeing someone else for the past few months, but had been hiding it for fear of offending/hurting/losing Sherry's attention, which is extremely shitty. But this means she was in full rebound mentality and reciprocated Jean's attention with gusto. It's clear in hindsight that she brought up the idea of joining mine and Jean's relationship because she had lots of encouragement and a thinly disguised invitation from Jean.

I still wasn't sold on the idea, but I agreed to give it a try (people pleaser, I know I know). However, as someone pointed out in my last post, in group polyamory it's best to move at the pace of the slowest member, and I am demi-romantic (for those unfamiliar, I need time and an established emotional connection to form romantic feelings), I asked that we take some more time to get to know each other as people before solidifying a more in depth relationship. The idea was that we'd all remain just friends and if feelings developed I'd let them know. I again suggested that if that didn't appeal to them, then they could have their own relationship, but they said they were fine waiting for me.

Not long after that though, think within the week, Jean was already trying to check in with my feelings about Sherry (which should have clued me into to what was going on behind the scenes, but I assumed he was just eager). I felt pressured to force myself to have these feelings, and so subconsciously resisted anything beyond friendliness.

Meanwhile, Jean and Sherry messaged each other online (Sherry lives about 1.5 hours away) constantly, sometimes having voice calls which I initially was encouraged to join, but over time they happened more and more behind closed doors and I only belated found out they'd even happened. What I learned later about their conversations (disclosed willingly by Jean) was that they were far from just-friendly, often discussing intimate subjects like sexual preferences and kinks, buying gifts for each other for the upcoming holiday, talking about Jean's relationship with me, etc. Sherry introduced Jean to a website/app that could link to 'personal toys' and allow control of the settings from a distance (he ended up getting both her and myself *the same* 'toy' from this website, she was consulted on this while I was not).

I eventually caught on when I happened to glimpse his phone to see a message from her about 'how much more forward he was compared to me'. This set off alarm bells since it had been less than a month since we'd all agreed to remain just friends until further notice, and so I brought it up with Jean. He freely admitted to everything above and I was very taken aback, and told him it was a huge overstep of the boundary I'd set *that they both agreed to*. It was extremely hurtful because it felt like he'd been hiding this even though I'd given them the option of having their own relationship not involving me, but I realize he was really deep into NRE and I already knew he has a tendency to leap before thinking.

We had a very long, tear filled talk about our feelings and the situation, and tabled it for the time being until we could all three talk about it, but with an ending note that I didn't think I'd ever develop romantic feelings for Sherry at that point and that I thought it was best that they had their own thing since it was clear that's what they wanted. He ended up discussing it with her on his own over a phone call (we had company over so I wasn't included, but he felt the need to call her cause she was having a bad day), and when she came over next in person it seemed like they just wanted to move on rather than talking about it. They also interacted physically for the first time (I'm fairly certain on that note) at some point, and I'm near positive I heard Sherry tell Jean that she loved him (it was said very quietly, enough so that I'm not even sure he heard it clearly and when I asked him later he couldn't remember what she'd said if anything, but I'm not sure what else I could have heard). The feelings of betrayal and hurt were still very present and forefront for me, and this only made them worse. It was after this point that I made my first post (sorry for the long recap, but so much happened in such a short time).

Since then, using some of the excellent advice given on my previous post, we've had several long discussions about everything and have settled on a few things: Sherry is not going to be back at our place until I've had some time and space to heal, Jean and Sherry will continue to see each other on their own, with Jean traveling to see her, and that Jean and I need to work on our communication. Jean feels terrible about the whole thing, and says he had no malicious intentions at all, and that things just happened faster than he could control, and also that he didn't realize it would hurt/bother me so much. Sherry has expressed that she didn't know any better than to just go with the flow, but I really don't know what to do with that.

Through the input/advice from friends I realized that what happened was an emotional affair between the two of them, and I started looking up resources and such online, and that's helped me put a face on things for myself. I've been really trying to focus on self care and healing, and it's been helping, but it's slow progress (which it should be, healing shouldn't be rushed).

Jean went to go see her last weekend, and I was fine emotionally, so that's all well and good. But during this time they made plans for her to come to our town this weekend to join in his friend's movie night, with plans for her to stay at our place again because it's a long drive home. I immediately reminded about my clearly expressed (to both of them) need for time and space, and he backpedaled quickly, but I was still hurt at the clear dismissal of my feelings and emotional needs. As it is, as far as I know she's still coming for the movie night, but I don't know anything beyond that (nor do I want to so long as she's not coming here). Another sore point that I'm struggling with is that this movie night takes place on my birthday, and while he is going to be spending some of it with me, he has work and I have my own group of friends/family I'll be celebrating with and he can't stay long because of pet allergies. So he'll likely be spending more time with her than myself on *my* actual birthday (which is also the weekend he expected it to be fine for her to come back over). It seems petty to me, but I'm still struggling with feeling a little neglected in favor of Sherry in this particular instance (if he weren't seeing her it would be fine, the date of the movie night and my birthday coinciding is pure coincidence since the movie night is a weekly event).

Jean's therapist has suggested couples therapy, which he did relay to me but also immediately shot down, saying he didn't think it was necessary even though I was positive and encouraging about it. I really want to continue our relationship and hope we come through these issues stronger for it, but it feels as though he's not putting any real effort towards repairing anything, and instead just hoping we can keep going on as if nothing happened. That doesn't work for me though, but I feel as though I'm running out of ways to communicate that to him? It feels as though I just keep bringing up the same stuff and frustrating the both of us, so I would really appreciate any advice anyone has on how to approach the issue, subjects to focus on, how to gently bring up couples therapy again (he barely accepts going to therapy on his own due to some negative impressions imparted from his family, who are a very much 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just grin and bear it' kind of people). I haven't brought up the word 'affair' to Jean, cause I feel that once it's said it becomes more of a offending party vs wrong party situation, and if it comes to that I'd really like to have that conversation with a professional involved.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it's very long. I don't really need more advice on what happened as a situation (unless you feel it's really important, but I got lots of good advice on my last post), but instead about how to move on and communicate with Jean about what needs to be done.
 
One thing that popped out to me is the lack of clarity in your communication. There is so much unsaid and assumptions made on both sides. This alone would be a great reason for therapy. Therapists aren't there to take sides and tell you what you are doing wrong. They are teachers. They teach you skills most people can't learn in the wild. Good communication is just one of those skills as are coping strategies, mindfulness, boundaries, etc. Skills to help you two have a successful relationship. They will also help you figure out if incompatibilities might be so bad that a successful relationship might be overly challenging.

An example of poor communication:
Sherry is not going to be back at our place until I've had some time and space to heal,
I immediately reminded about my clearly expressed (to both of them) need for time and space,
A need for time and space means whatever the person hearing it thinks it means. You gave vague request and he made assumptions about what you meant. This is not good communication.

Better would have been "don't bring partner to our home until further notice. We can re evaluate this in (time period) if I haven't said differently by then." Then if you are ready earlier you can let him know you are ready for her to be in your home and what parameters are needed. (No overnights, no more than x hours at a time, etc ) With the goal of more fluidity over time.

Him knowing what is expected increases his ability to meet those expectations. Being unclear increases the chances of him failing to meet your expectations, hurting you and creating resentment in the process. Relationships are ruined because of this very example playing over and over again until both partners resent each other because one doesn't "respect you enough to do as you ask" and the other is lost because nothing they do is right. They aren't a mind reader.
 
My bad, I was trying to be as brief as possible since I had to trim down my last post by about 3k characters lol

I specified a minimum of 3-4 weeks to Jean (and Sherry by default cause it was in writing in a discord server we made for the three of us) before I'd consider having Sherry over again, and then only to have a talk with all of us involved in person for once about things going forward.
 
Oh, I'd give it longer than 3-4 weeks, if I were you. (YMMV, of course.) I'd tell him to go see his gf at her place or a hotel, for a good five months. Your home is your sanctuary. It's not their love nest. Then, and only then, will you see how you feel about Sherry visiting. There are a lot of kinks to be ironed out, a lot of therapy, reading poly materials, etc. You may tell Jean you'd really like him to read the NRE/poly hell article, at the very least. It's in our resource list.


Maybe eventually you'll be okay with Sherry spending the night with Jean in the guest room. (Or maybe they'll break up before you're ready, who knows?) Knowing your own people-pleaser tendencies, I can see you thinking if and when she spends the night, you need to hang out with her, make her dinner and breakfast, make sure she has towels, etc. It's better if she just meets him at her own place or a hotel and then you won't feel the need to "do for" her. If you revisit having her be hosted at your home, you may decide you don't ever want her to spend the night, use your living room, your clean sheets, your bathroom, or accidentally drink out of your favorite coffee cup!

You CAN have a talk as a threesome, but it doesn't have to happen. Jean is the "hinge," and instead of acting like a lovestruck teenager, he has responsibilities. He needs to have empathy, compassion and respect for you, as well as for Sherry. He's turned your marriage upside down.

You let him know what your needs are, make your requests, establish your own boundaries. Then he lets Sherry know which days are hers for dates, which days are yours for dates, and which days he needs for himself for other friends, self care, household responsibilities, and so on. You don't have to be involved in any way in what he and Sherry do, as long as you get enough quality time, quantity time. Otherwise, you just need to make sure they are using safer sex practices.

But again, if you WANT to have a talk between the three of you, it can happen in a coffee shop, or a park in nice weather, some neutral place. There's no reason in the world for it to happen in your home. I'm not sure what YOU need to negotiate with JEAN's gf, anyway. The Jean+Sherry relationship is theirs, and the TCrowe + Jean relationships is yours.

Has testing for STDs been done? Ideally Jean and Sherry should both have labs done before starting to have sex. Condoms should always be used. If Jean is lax about testing and using condoms with Sherry, you tell him you and he will be using condoms until their sexual health statuses are known. Most new couples use condoms for quite some time before "fluid bonding" after other partners have been consulted and given consent. If you don't want to give your consent for them to fluid bond, it would be nice of Jean, compassionate of Jean, to agree. If a condom slips off or breaks, he should tell you before the next time you have sex.

It's unfortunate Jean can't be with you for more than a bit on your birthday, but it sounds like there are pet allergy issues at your family's? Often in poly, birthdays and holidays are celebrated by/with different partners on different days. In my case, my gf and I are both Leos, so we may have a joint celebration on a day in between our birthdays, but my bf will take me out on my actual birthday. My gf and I celebrate Yule on December 21, and she goes to her bf's family on Xmas Eve/Day. My bf does Xmas with his extended family and I do it with my son and daughter. My gf also does New Year's with her bf, and I do New Years with my bf.

Maybe Jean and you can have a one-on-one birthday dinner together the night after your birthday this year.
 
I actually have sent him that article! As well as others I found that I thought would be helpful to read.

You're right, I would absolutely feel the need to do those things for Sherry, since in my mind that's simply what I do for guests. In fact I have done it many times already before everything fell to pieces.

The potential talk is mostly for closure, though I have a small (getting smaller) hope that Sherry and I can still be friends like I originally wanted, but it's absolutely going to be a long time coming. I'll take your advice on time to heart, and it really helps to be able to tell Jean that it came from a source that wasn't just me (not that he would try to argue or not believe me, it helps me to be able to advocate for myself if I feel like someone else is backing me up, so to speak).

We're very conscious about STDs and safety, and for health reasons Sherry cannot use hormonal BC, so condoms are a must and Jean knows that very well.

I think the birthday things bothers me so much because the movie night is a weekly thing, and Sherry could have just chosen to come some other week that *wasn't* on my birthday (she does know that it's my birthday, as well). She's a very emotionally needy person, which is part of why they communicated so much to begin with. If she doesn't get an immediate text in the morning, or a good night message, she goes into a downward spiral of feelings of neglect and depression. I'm very much not trying to be judgmental, but she's very childish and immature in that had-to-grow-up-very-fast way, and sometimes is a little over dramatic. This has at times led to me feeling as though Jean pays more attention to her emotional wellbeing than he does mine, but I don't know if that's accurate or if it's spillover from the big emotions of the last few months.
 
I actually have sent him that article! As well as others I found that I thought would be helpful to read.

You're right, I would absolutely feel the need to do those things for Sherry, since in my mind that's simply what I do for guests. In fact I have done it many times already before everything fell to pieces.
I'm glad I guessed right! :) Here's the thing. Your "friendship" with Sherry, a "kid" 10 years younger than you, barely out of adolescence, is not really your friend. She's... all right, but you two got off on a bad footing. That's okay. You don't have much invested in her. Jean, on the other hand, has lust for her, interest, desire. She's his dating partner. If she spent the night at your place (which she won't be), it would be Jean's job to make up the guest bed, give her clean towels, feed her, provide whatever she needs. She would be HIS guest. (Also his job to wash the used sheets and towels.)

You might want to think about how you and Jean are individuals. Practicing polyamory takes more independence than monogamy is expected to (not that there aren't monos who have more or less independence in their relationships/marriages). You do your job, Jean does his job, Jean+you do your couple things, and Jean+Sherry do their couple things.

If you want to be platonic friends with Sherry at some point, maybe you and she could just meet for coffee/lunch on your own. It doesn't need to be this whole triad date thing.

Remember, there are different degrees of closeness between metamours-- kitchen table poly, where everyone in the network is close and hangs out pretty often; garden party poly, where the network of metamours only sees each other at special events; and parallel poly, where the metas are just polite if they happen to bump into each other in the driveway or something, but otherwise do not see each other.
The potential talk is mostly for closure, though I have a small (getting smaller) hope that Sherry and I can still be friends like I originally wanted, but it's absolutely going to be a long time coming. I'll take your advice on time to heart, and it really helps to be able to tell Jean that it came from a source that wasn't just me (not that he would try to argue or not believe me, it helps me to be able to advocate for myself if I feel like someone else is backing me up, so to speak).

We're very conscious about STDs and safety, and for health reasons Sherry cannot use hormonal BC, so condoms are a must and Jean knows that very well.
That's good, at least. Keep on top of that. There's nothing else you need to know about Jean+Sherry except the scheduling of dates. (You don't need to know if she can be on hormonal BC or not. Not your business. It's Jean's business to make sure he doesn't get her pregnant. Period.)
I think the birthday things bothers me so much because the movie night is a weekly thing, and Sherry could have just chosen to come some other week that *wasn't* on my birthday (she does know that it's my birthday, as well).
Honestly, don't put the dating stuff on your metamour. It might be easier to "put the blame" on the new kid, but this is on Jean. He knew damn well it was your birthday, but he just couldn't wait, because he's on drugs (NRE) and not thinking straight, or frankly, showing consideration for you. Talk to HIM about coming down to earth some. NRE can kill an established relationship if you're not careful.
She's a very emotionally needy person, which is part of why they communicated so much to begin with. If she doesn't get an immediate text in the morning, or a good night message, she goes into a downward spiral of feelings of neglect and depression. I'm very much not trying to be judgmental, but she's very childish and immature in that had-to-grow-up-very-fast way, and sometimes is a little over dramatic. This has at times led to me feeling as though Jean pays more attention to her emotional well-being than he does mine, but I don't know if that's accurate or if it's spillover from the big emotions of the last few months.
Try not to know about what Sherry "needs." Try not to give a crap about her maturity level. That is Jean's business. Try to distance yourself from her. What makes YOU feel loved? Tell Jean what YOUR emotional needs are, and your physical needs, whether it's cuddles, sex or help bringing the groceries in from the car. Do you need more works of affirmation yourself? Do you need him to perform more acts of service? Once YOUR needs are fully (or at least mostly) met, you won't need to care about what the others are doing over there.

Jean can be more discreet about texting his new partner. If you feel hurt that he's in your face texting her first thing in the morning, talk about it. Come up with a boundary, a plan, and an agreement. Jean is the hinge. There are certain skills to be learned to be an effective hinge. If he's not doing them, he's gonna end up with you leaving him.
 
This sounds like poly hell. I could see Sherry being a bit clueless, since she's closer to a teen than not, at 21. But you at 31 and Jean (26?), can't you expect more from an adult partner?

Jean feels terrible about the whole thing, says he had no malicious intentions at all, that things just happened faster than he could control, and also that he didn't realize it would hurt/bother me so much.

Those are slippery words. He doesn't have to have malicious intentions to ding you. He could just be thoughtless and dinging you. Receiving dings still feels "UGH" to you either way, not FUN.

Things do not happen "faster" than he can control. His NRE feelings might be all zoomies, but he has control over his behavior choices.

He didn't realize it would bother you THIS much? So he knew it would bug you, but figured it would gloss over? He was just was surprised it was BIGGER? I wonder if Jean is so used to you being a people pleaser that he's just chasing NRE, and figures you'll just give him a pass, automatically forgive him, so he doesn't have to think about you, be thoughtful, exercise self control, etc.?

Jean's therapist has suggested couples therapy, which he did relay to me, but also immediately shot down, saying he didn't think it was necessary, even though I was positive and encouraging about it.

Why? Because spending his free time doing couples counseling with you would take up his free time to date Sherry?

If he's gonna be a hinge, he has to balance having two partners and meeting their reasonable and rational needs. Why are you getting the short end of the stick?

Couples counseling to smooth out the bumps of changing to a poly V is a reasonable and rational request you could make. Why shoot it down? He WANTS crazy-ass bumps?

I really want to continue our relationship and hope we come through these issues stronger for it, but it feels as though he's not putting any real effort towards repairing anything, and instead just hoping we can keep going on as if nothing happened.

No, you do not FEEL that, so I crossed it out. You EXEPERIENCE that. You are not "too sensitive" and it is not "all in your head." You EXPERIENCE this behavior from Jean. He's not putting any real effort towards repairing anything. You get to decide if that's enough for you, or not.

how to gently bring up couples therapy again

Why does it have to be "gentle?" You don't have to behave like a jerk, but you can still be firm. It could be a dealbreaker for you because you want less drama and fewer bumps, not more of them.

"If you want to continue together, then I need us to do some couples therapy. Otherwise I'd prefer to bow out."

I haven't brought up the word 'affair' to Jean, because I feel that once it's said it becomes more of a offending party vs wrong party situation, and if it comes to that I'd really like to have that conversation with a professional involved.

They DID cheat on agreements. They agreed to wait, rather than take the option to develop their own thing. I don't think you should have given them the option. You should have stood firm on "I don't want to date Sherry. There is too big of an age gap for me. Y'all do your own thing."

But you did give the option. And they AGREED, rather than taking the other path.

I think you might benefit from individual therapy about the "people-pleaser" thing. I am concerned that you are "too nice" and setting yourself up like the "den mother" of the group, always looking out for everyone, nobody ever looking out for you, and both Jean and Sherry coasting, like they get to be kids extra long, rather than actually growing up.

but instead about how to move on and communicate with Jean about what needs to be done.

Couples therapy needs to be done in other to retain a relationship with you. If he won't do it, you bounce.

It is right in the article, about the NRE partner being all moony and taking the established partner for granted, until the partner is so fed up they decide to bounce.


This is because the primary partner is experiencing a scarcity of time and romance with their partner, and their pleas for their partner to focus attention on the relationship fall on deaf ears. As one man said, “Not only was she spending most of her time with this other guy, whenever I tried to tell her how I felt she ignored me and didn't seem to care that I was very unhappy.” Eventually they feel so abandoned and humiliated that they are likely to leave the relationship, because the cumulative affect of unmet needs will necessitate them shifting their own relationship energy elsewhere to another partner (or partners) who will be more attentive and available. Unfortunately, it is only at the point that the primary partner decides to end the relationship that the partner usually takes their demands seriously, because they have been oblivious, and naively believed that the relationship was secure. And by then it is usually too late to repair the damage, as their partner is already on their way out the door, and feels so mistreated and distrustful they are unlikely to be deterred.

If that's not a wake-up call to Jean to get it together as a hinge and do couples therapy, I don't know what is. If he's not gonna listen, you can walk. You are not obligated to stick around in this mess. What for?

Galagirl
 
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I specified a minimum of 3-4 weeks to Jean.

That's too short. I'd do at least 6-12 months instead, before thinking about having her come over. Or you might decide you NEVER want to deal with Jean's emotional-affair partner in your home. Rethink if you want to cohabitate with Jean. There's nothing wrong with parallel poly. There's nothing wrong with everyone in their own nest.

You don't even have to see Sherry or deal with her. You can just be "basic polite" if you happen to bump into her in town somehow. If she's 21 and clueless, and was going along with whatever Jean presented, you might bend a little. Again, you might be "basic polite" if you see her on the street, but not friendly, because you do not want her coming over to your home.

There can be consequences to Jean's poor behaviors. You don't have to be up for everything.

I think the birthday things bothers me so much because the movie night is a weekly thing, and Sherry could have just chosen to come some other week that *wasn't* on my birthday. She does know that it's my birthday.

Stop blaming your metamour for accepting an invitation that JEAN issued. Sherry isn't dating you. She doesn't have to know, care, or remember when your birthday is. She wouldn't be celebrating with you. You don't have to ask her to come to your birthday party just because Jean is dating her. Jean knew it was your birthday better/longer than her, and he IS dating you, so why's he inviting Sherry to other things on your birthday and spreading himself so thin?

You are going to have to put more separation between you and Sherry, and not care what plans Jean and Sherry have together.

But nope, no inviting his emotional-affair partner to stay at your home. They can get a hotel. Tough.

She's a very emotionally needy person, which is part of why they communicated so much to begin with. If she doesn't get an immediate text in the morning, or a good night message, she goes into a downward spiral of feelings of neglect and depression.

Hopefully she's seeing her own counselor, so she becomes healthy and isn't "easy prey" or "easy to lead." None of that is your job to do, though. Sherry's health is Sherry's job to do.

I'm very much not trying to be judgmental, but she's very childish and immature in that had-to-grow-up-very-fast way, and sometimes is a little overly dramatic.

She's a 21-year old young adult "kid." I say it that way because my kids are in that age group. They are off to college. They are like "baby young adults" and still coming down off of teenage "enthusiasms," still all dramatic about everything. It's starting to temper off, but after spending HS in pandemic lockdown, some of them act like they just got let out of a barn and saw the sun for the first time ever.

Sherry may be barely growing into managing HERSELF-- I don't think she's gonna help manage Jean's NRE, or help Jean with learning and doing his jobs as a hinge. These are Jean's jobs to do.

This has at times led to me feeling as though Jean pays more attention to her emotional wellbeing than he does mine, but I don't know if that's accurate or if it's spillover from the big emotions of the last few months.

I crossed it out again because you do not "feel" this. You observe or experience behaviors from Jean. If you saw it with your own eyes, it happened. It is not a "feeling."

Is he white-knighting Sherry, wanting to be her "hero," and "rescue" her? And/or does she represent something he misses, like "college kid party life," while you represent "real grown ups," and he doesn't want to grow up?

Galagirl
 
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Hi TCrowe,

When you express your concerns to Jean, he seems to be in the habit of apologizing profusely and promising to do better, but then he never keeps that promise. He seems to be very comfortable with this routine, and I don't know what you could say to convince him to stop acting like that. You may be at a point where you have to decide if you can stand to be his wife when he continues to act the same way he always has. Or I guess you could wait out his NRE, maybe when it fades out he will come to his senses. I have no doubt couples therapy would help, if he would agree to it.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
 
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