Need Help - Overwhelmed

E

Evalina

New member
Hello,

I have been dating a man (we are both in our 40s, no children), for a little over a year. I was married for ten years to a man that was extremely jealous and insecure and I spent most of that time attempting to alleviate his insecurities to no avail. He always said that I wasn't expressive enough, although I tried my hardest. I am quite shy by nature though and just never felt as though I could be enough of what he needed.

The man I am seeing now... He's very quiet, reserved, and seemingly independent (?), and about a year into our relationship he became increasingly aloof. Eventually I ended it, but this did not last long. He came over to my house expressing what I hadn't known before: he had been acting aloof because he had developed a crush in a coworker. After I broke up with him, he then pursued her and they started dating. At the time he showed back up at my house, he explained that he still had feelings for me and was upset that I had shut him out (I had blocked him out of frustration and confusion). He said he had feelings for both me and this other woman and wanted to continue seeing me, but her as well.

At first I was very upset and angry. But he continued talking to me in a very calm way, and seemed to be very honest about his feelings. I finally, after a few weeks, decided that I really didn't want him out of my life, and I found his honesty to make me feel both close to him and safe. Shortly after I began getting turned on at the thought if him having sex with this other women.

Long story short : I began to look back over my life, my feelings, my relationships, and question whether I am meant to be in ploy relationships. I started reading everything I could and what I read made sense. I wanted to maybe explore this more, at the very least try to meet some people in ploy relationships and see how it looked in real life.

I eventually shared my thinking with the man I am seeing. I told him I was back online and talking (but had not met in person) to a couple of other guys. Well, he kinda freaked. He said that polyamory is a bullshit excuse to cheat. He told me to read The Dangerous Passion by Buss, which I read chapt 1 of and honestly it made little real life sense to me.

I am feeling very confused right now. I was beginning to feel as though I had found an answer to relationship problems from my past, and I found that letting go of jealousy made me feel very very happy. Also very turned on.

But I feel like I just slipped down some weird dark hole.... Suddenly, like in my marriage, I feel like I am being accused of being a cheater. I feel confused as to what the hell is happening between me and this man. He was perfectly content to date me and another woman and sleep with us both, but my mentioning my talking to other men and my interest in polyamory seemed to upset him very much. I am not saying he called me a cheater because we both know this relationship is not a closed one nor has he obviously committed anything to me. But he does say he loves me and we see each other about three times a week.

I just can't shake this feeling I had for so long when I was married and I can't think straight. I'm feeling so overwhelmed, misunderstood, angry, guilty, ashamed, and tired.

If anyone can help me sort through WTH is going on with me I would be so very thankful.

Edit: I just wanted to add that since his negative reaction, and what I perceive to be a slight distancing of himself from me, at least emotionally, I have started to now feel jealous of this woman. I feel crap.
 
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Sounds like this man has a double standard. He can date two women but you're cheating just by talking to two men. He needs to man up. Have an honest talk with him and gently remind him that you are in an open relationship and he can't expect to be the only one to enjoy that aspect of it. If he can't handle it I suggest you dump him. You are now jealous of the other girl because he is distancing himself. My guess is he may dump you if you decide to see other men. He probably has a one penis policy. Does the other woman know about you?
 
I am sorry you deal in this.

Neither of you has agreed to be exclusive. You can date others if you want to.

If he has a problem with you dating others while he can -- it is a double standard. That is different than both of you being able to date and YOU choosing not to right now. You do not have to agree to participate in keeping double standards.

he explained that he still had feelings for me and was upset that I had shut him out
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You did not shut him out. He withdrew emotionally and shut you out. You ended it because you are not up for that.

I wonder if this being "honest and open now" wasn't a hook to lure you back in and keep you here?

Well, he kinda freaked. He said that polyamory is a bullshit excuse to cheat.
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Now he's going the other way -- freaking out to keep you here. Different control tactic, same result.

Tread with caution. Emotional manipulator alarm.

I am feeling very confused right now. I was beginning to feel as though I had found an answer to relationship problems from my past, and I found that letting go of jealousy made me feel very very happy. Also very turned on.
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You could pursue polyshipping with other partners that do not have double standards or play emotional games. It doesn't have to be pursued with him.

I just can't shake this feeling I had for so long when I was married and I can't think straight. I'm feeling so overwhelmed, misunderstood, angry, guilty, ashamed, and tired.
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Sounds like reasons to dump him. If he is acting out at you over it? Lose him.

That's another tactic of manipulative control -- act out until the other person is soooo run down they agree to whatever just so the rantings and yucky feelings STOP.

(The rantings and yucky feelings also stop with you choosing to leave.)

I just wanted to add that since his negative reaction, and what I perceive to be a slight distancing of himself from me, at least emotionally,
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And that is another tactic To grow "cold" till you do what he wants and you get "rewarded" by him being warm toward you again.

Head games.

You could get out, heal, and then pursue polyamory with healthier people.

Galagirl
 
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He wants to have what he wants and yet belittles and criticizes you when you do your homework, open your world-view, and decide you want the same thing. That is neither kind nor loving. One Penis Policies are ridiculous and disrespectful, especially if that isn't even something you agreed to accept! What a jerkwad.

DTMFA! There are better ones out there.
 
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I'm going to agree whole-heartedly with GalaGirl and Nycindie: he's not a keeper. He gets to date two women, but they...what? Stay home waiting with baited breath for his return, because they're not allowed to date others? No.
 
....

Thank you all so much for your responses. I really don't have anyone to talk to about this. It is nice to have a place I can come to...

I'll add a few more details. This other woman that he's dating is also dating another man. He told me in one of our more recent discussions that he really doesn't like it but that he feels as though he loves her so he keeps dating her. He told me I had the right to date other men, as we aren't exclusive, but that he was also very jealous of me. It was specifically in the context of polyamory, which came up in the same conversation, that he declared that was BS and just an excuse to cheat.

So I am completely having weird anxiety attacks and all sorts of 'something's wrong here' feelings, but I doubt myself, partly because I feel so confused and partly because, since that conversation, I haven't been able to get my thoughts in order enough to talk with him further. He knows Im freaking out and may have an idea but I told him I was overwhelmed and not sure how I was feeling and he showed up unannounced to try to talk but I just couldn't. Well that happened yesterday.

I know I need to decide what's right for me and do that, but I just keep thinking, if he's really I to monogamy, WTHELL is he doing? Biding his time with me? Surely he knows me well enough to know how he feels. He says he loves me but I don't know what he means. Now. I thought I did.

I'm also afraid that the idea of polyamory is appealing because I'm afraid of commitment after my divorce/failed marriage. It's safe to say I'm confused partly of my own accord, but for a while things felt so right with him and feeling like I had found this amazing freedom in being able to experience honesty and acceptance in a way I never have felt before. But maybe it was just a hook.... Maybe him telling me he loves me is a hook and maybe him talking about cheating (????) is also an attempt at manipulation. (Why would he have such a strongly negative reaction when we are not monogamous).

Any further insights or suggestions would be great. Thank you all so much.
 
..

I just wanted to add that this is the book he told me to read : http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/buss-passion.html

It's basically about how jealousy is healthy and usually based on correct intuitions. He's asked me MANY questions about my marriage, suggesting that my husband was jealous because of something I was doing--either cheating or flirting etc. This is not true, although I will say there were times I was attracted to people but too afraid of my ex husbands insane jealousy to talk about it. I felt very suffocated in that relationship and his insecurities led to a shut down in communication and Im sure our eventual divorce. I feel as though he is persecuting me again over that crap all over again and I feel completely taken off guard at this, and I now do not feel safe. All the good feelings I was having of being able to be my true self and being accepted have vanished. Ugh. I feel so horrible right now.
 
Some enter into polyamory because the want MORE commitments rather than less.

I think you envy the other gf. You want what she has. And what she has is dating others without his drama. (Though you would not know what drama he brings her. It is not like he would tell you.)

He shows up unannounced wanting to get his way? This dude sounds weirder by the minute to me.

Bottom line? You do not feel safe with this bf. You feel persecuted. Get out. He is keeping you off balance so you cannot get clear headed.

Is that book suggestion supposed to be some kind of threat? That he is super possessive of you so you better not "make him" jealous? He believes feeling are facts? If he feels jealous, then it must be true that you are lying or cheating otherwise he would not feel that way? And uses the book to back him up in his own cognitive distortions? Weirdo.

Get out, stay safe. His brand of "love" you can do without.

Galagirl
 
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Yes I think what I meant wasn't that I'm afraid of commitment, but want to feel free to be myself and I think that if someone was completely honest with me it would make me feel closer to them. I want to feel accepted for who I am and love the idea of giving that to someone as well. But I am afraid of all of the feelings I had in my marriage of being controlled, owned even. I don't want to feel that way again ever. But my confusion is in--was it just a bad match or would I really thrive in poly amorous relationships. This is what Im trying to figure out.

Yes, it seems as though the other woman is not getting all this questioning and subtle threats. I'm not sure. Just my feeling. I do want that (to not have that). That jealousy right now at least feels horrible. Like an intimacy destroyer. Did it for ten years.
 
This guy sounds very weird. I took a look at the book link - jeesh! I just tell you, most polyamorists have quite so different view on jealousy, and IMO a much healthier one. This man sounds like he wants to cling to his jealousy and not do any work to get over it. Overcoming one's jealous tendencies is a necessity in poly relationships.

Leave him. Get out of this. There are better men out there!

I do understand your need to be accepted as you are. This guy is not providing that - he wants to control probably quite as much as your ex. You are better off alone, and then you can start poly dating as a free individual.
 
But my confusion is in--was it just a bad match or would I really thrive in poly amorous relationships. This is what Im trying to figure out.
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To me it sounds like this dude is a bad match. And you cannot thrive in a polyship with him because he is weirdo.

So I suggest you leave him again, for good. Heal. Then try polydating if you want to with other partners to see if you can thrive.

You have yet to have healthy poly.

Galagirl
 
Polyamory isn't an "excuse to cheat." Cheating is dishonest and is done without one's partner's knowledge and/or agreement. Polyamory is open, honest, and ethical.

Jealousy is not "correct intuition." While it's a normal human emotion, it can be a highly damaging one, both for the person experiencing it and the target of it. You've seen that yourself.

My first husband (my kids' father) constantly accused me of cheating on him if I even spoke to a man. That's including male cashiers at stores. It wasn't anything about MY behavior; it was his own insecurity, fear, anger, and at that time undiagnosed mental illness. For several years, I barely left the house except to work and do household errands, and even though I didn't speak to anyone other than my parents and his family, he STILL accused me of cheating.

I didn't deserve that. *You* didn't deserve it from your ex-husband, and you don't deserve it from this guy.

He claims "polyamory is an excuse for cheating"--what the heck does he call dating two women at the same time? By his own definition, he's cheating. You aren't, but he's claiming you are because you have conversations with other men.

You are in a damaging situation that sounds like it could, if it hasn't already, cross the line into emotional abuse. This man is causing you to doubt and question yourself because of HIS insecurity and messed-up thinking.

You know you are doing nothing wrong. You care about this guy, clearly, but that isn't reason enough to tolerate his behavior. Please take care of yourself.
 
Hi Evalina,

I have read all four of your posts carefully, and I feel persistently confident in saying that you have moved from an abusive marriage into an abusive relationship with your current partner. Everything that's been posted on this thread is the word of truth. You're doing nothing wrong, except that you're subjecting yourself to the cruel neurosis of a man who doesn't love you. Please have some mercy on yourself and get away from him.

Of course you're feeling jealous and confused. You're being confronted with a split reality: His polyamory is righteous, your polyamory is evil. Please stop listening, and paying any mind, to the contradictory lies that are spewing out of his mouth. He is only saying that stuff to get what he wants, without thought or sympathy for what you want (and need).

Is polyamory right for you? Probably, although you need to make the choice for yourself. I suggest you study it some more, then experiment with it and see how you feel about it at that point. If you have any questions going forward, we'll be happy to answer them here. Also there are some good books you can read:

  • "Opening Up: a guide to creating and sustaining open relationships," by Tristan Taormino.
  • "More than Two: a practical guide to ethical polyamory," by Franklin Veaux and Eve Rickert.
  • "The Ethical Slut: a practical guide to polyamory, open relationships and other adventures," by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy.
  • "Sex at Dawn: how we mate, why we stray, and what it means for modern relationships," by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jethá.
The complete list of poly books is much longer but those are the four I would especially suggest for you (if you haven't read them already).

Feel free to study as much as you feel you need to before actually trying polyamory on for size. Just know that regardless of whether it is *right* for you, you have every *right* to choose for yourself whether you will or won't practice it in your own life. Don't let any man tell you that he knows better than you do. Trust your own feelings, reason, and instinct.

Now I am sure that the man you're dating has many charming qualities, that you will want to argue to keep seeing him because he deserves a second chance, that you don't want to be alone, that you fear it is all your fault, etc. etc. ... please don't let him fool you like that. Don't let him trick you into perceiving life without him as lonesome and awful and terrible. Like a window in a dark dismal room, a window painted with storms and fury and nightmares to hide the true outdoors, you need to smash out that window and free yourself from that room. Yes you will bleed from the broken glass. But those wounds will heal, and you will find there is a whole world of delights out here that you've been dreaming of all your life.

This is the first time you have contemplated polyamory. As one who has been practicing it for nine years, I can testify to you that it is an enormously good and liberating thing. Is it easy? Not always. Sometimes it's damned hard. But I think you'll find that it's well worth it. Just be choosy about your partners!

I don't mean to browbeat you into doing things my way, and I hope you'll pardon me if I've been unduly disrespectful towards the man that you love. Just remember that you can love him without keeping him in your life. It's okay to put yourself first once in awhile.

If you really want to stay with this man, I'll try to help and support you in that decision. Just at least do it because it's what you want, not because he's tried to turn you into a gaslighted slave.

I have much anxiousness and sympathy toward you; you are in a tight spot.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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Kevin is probably the most optimistic poster on the board, who tends to give people and relationships the benefit of the doubt, and to encourage work on relationships rather than splitting. He tends to try and see the good in everyone. Some of us who are more cynical often look to him for balancing viewpoints.

In my own life, I've discovered that when someone so optimistic waves the red flags about a situation, it's worth taking a long pause to reflect on what they see.

I agree with his take on your relationship, and hope you take his words to heart. Leaving abuse can be incredibly difficult, but you'll find a lot of support here.
 
Yeah I doubted myself and thought, "Wow, I am really saying some nasty things about this guy." I guess he lost my support when he -- Mr. Two-Partners -- called polyamory (when it was Evalina's idea) a bullshit excuse to cheat. What?

If I painted him out to be a Hitler, then I went too far. He's not necessarily evil, but he's suffering from some kind of illness. Which wouldn't rule him out as a partner, except: Establishing completely unfair rules and enforcing them with a bad temper ... is crossing the line.

I stand to be corrected though. If Evalina assures me that he's an okay guy, I'll take her word on it. Just, yeah, to me there were red flags waving all over this situation.
 
Goose? Gander?
Pot? Kettle?

Many people DO use the guise of "poly" to cheat. Which doesn't mean that you are (obviously - since you have not agreed to be in a monogamous relationship with him)...although it may imply that HE is (at least in his own subconscious)!
 
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Based on your posts here, I dislike this guy immensely.

Sounds like he wants to date around and keep his options open, but he's not interested in a true polyamorous relationship. He sounds jealous, manipulative, and like he just wants you around as a back up plan.

Dump him. Dump his double-standard, sexist, idiot ass.
 
Hi Evalina,
I hope you're still with us.

I know you were probably very upset when you composed your original post, and maybe you feel that you miscommunicated to us, or painted your guy in a bad/unfair light. I'll try my best to hear you out if you want to try a different approach.

Look, the guy slept around on you, then came wandering back into your life with accusations of how you had supposedly shut him out, and how he needed the freedom to keep both you and the other woman. So if anyone opened the can of polyamory worms, he did.

I won't go so far as to say he doesn't deserve any happiness, but I'm just sure that you deserve some happiness too.

Please write us again if you can.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks for all of the support and feedback from you all. Again, I have no friends who would take kindly to the idea of polyamory so I don't have anyone in real life to discuss this with. So thank you.

I have read all of the posts here several times and have been trying to sort out my feelings and thoughts. Your input has been very helpful in giving me outside perspectives of understanding people to think about.

I'm still feeling somewhat confused and anxious, and my trust level in him has definitely taken a hit. That book was so off the wall to me, even if I was a staunch monogamist I would be greatly offended by the ideas put forth in that book.

I decided a few things: he was completely out of line in asking me if I didn't do something to "make" my husband that jealous. That book is a BS bunch of misogynistic tripe and it's disturbing that he thinks it makes sense. The idea of polyamory being an excuse to cheat makes no sense by definition. If everyone is honest and happy, it's not cheating.

We have had two long talks (last night and today) where I tried to express my thoughts and feelings. He first said he never used the word "cheat" but finally said maybe he did. (He most definitely did). He said that he was asking about how I behaved towards my ex husband because he was honestly curious but wasn't judging me in any way. I explained that he already knows exactly what happened between me and my ex so I didn't understand him asking again, especially in the context of the conversation and explained how it made me feel attacked over a relationship that was abusive. I told him what I thought about that book....leading to him asking me a series of questions as to why I thought everything I did. He finally responded that he just thought it was an interesting book and the ideas in there were worth considering.

That's kind of where we left it at this point. I guess I am thinking right now of trying to work really hard at maintaining my sense of being centered in myself, thinking through all of the feelings that I'm having, and I guess I think in order for this to happen I know I at the very least need more space from him right now. Three days a week is too much and I want to keep focused on myself. I also want to maybe join a poly group in the area and try to make some friends there and learn more about it. I haven't read those books, except that I've read about half of the ethical slut. I want to tell him to do sone reading lol. But really I get the feeling he already has his beliefs and is looking for evidence (such as that crappy book) to support them.

Yes I do love him and what's odd is that he's in his 40s and hasn't ever had a long term relationship. I feel empathy towards him because in one way he is charming, but in another way he has a tendency of failing in relationships in general (friends too). And I know this bothers him a lot and that he is at a complete loss as to why that happens. I know he is struggling. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything other than maybe I tend to be attracted to guys I feel like I can bring some comfort to.

I know I have a lot of work on myself I need to do here and I just can't say how helpful it has been to find this board and be able to talk. I'm going to keep looking at myself and reminding myself that my needs are AS important as his. I have that marriage as ten years of proof of that! My anxious/panicky reaction was probably that part of me saying--hey pay attention to this! And it's an absolutely horrible feeling. One I want to stay far away from.
 
Well, it sounds like you have a sensible game plan. Anything I can do to help, just let me know. I have links for helping you find local poly groups if you're interested.
 
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