Need help with son hitting puberty

nondy2,

I think that what is most important is taking into account your own child. Obviously, as a parent, you should impart your own experience to your kid, but remember that your example worked for you, and won't necessarily work for your child. If they are mature, responsible, fully aware of the consequences, and ready, then have at it. Obviously, you don't want the explicit details, but there doesn't seem any harm.

I'm not a parent, but I can totally understand the confusion of giving permission and being permissive. Like, where do you draw the line? How young is too young? No matter how mature they are, I'd shut down a 12-year old wanting to have sex in about 3 seconds flat. Does that make me repressive and constrained to societal standards? Maybe, but I'm pulling out the 'So long as you live under my roof' clause. And if my kid runs away from a loving home simply to get some nookie, then obviously they weren't as mature as they think.

I remember at my sister's school there was a 14-year old girl dating a 27-year old man. Apparently, she got permission from her parents. To this day, the thought of that still makes me queasy. Maybe her parents thought their kid could handle it, or maybe there was something wrong with them, but that NAMBLA shit wouldn't go down in my house. Again, my house. You can do whatever you want, and at best, I'll try to see it from both sides. Doesn't mean I have to agree, though.

You can only do your best as a parent. Remember that you can't expect either your child or yourself to be perfect. You're both going to screw up, maybe even epically at times. So long as you're there for each other at the end of the day, that's what counts. Be there for the advice, the mistakes, the scares and the joys. No matter how much warning and planning you do, expect the unexpected, because life loves to mess with you. Just make sure to love your child through it all.
 
My first sexual encounter was at 19, through the wonders of online dating. Chatted up a boy who is now one of my best friends, and we were both virgins. It was oddly bureaucratic. I knew I was ready, and at that point, I had grown out of my fantasy of having sex with the one person whom I'd eventually marry, and be with forever. I just wanted to get my V-Card out of the way, and I felt I was compatible with my friend (and vice versa).

The internet really did come to the rescue again, as we well researched the intricacies of male-male lovin'. All the risks, pleasures, techniques-- everything. We had that part down pat. The hardest thing for me was getting naked and letting go of myself to the physical nature of it. It started out kinda funny. Like, where do you look?! And I was so stiff and uncomfortable with myself at first, almost robotic. But, we made it work, and though I was sore after, I was surprised it didn't hurt. In fact, it was pretty fantastic!

My way, I felt, was true to myself. It matches my analytical personality to bloody research how to do sex, and of course I would find a partner to do it with based on statistics and a percentage of compatibility. I'm glad it happened the way it did. I had no problem with having sex at a later time than most of my peers. I would have been a mess if I had had sex even a year earlier. It's like, around 19, a switch clicked in my head and SEX turned on, finally, in my brain. Any sooner, and I may have screwed up my natural process.
 
I was 15, just barely, as it was a couple of weeks after my birthday. It was with the boy I was dating at the time; we were both virgins. Honestly, I could have handled it better. I was horny and invited him over to my grandmother's house. It was snowing and he rode his bike all the way across town: 5-8 miles. By the time he got there, I was chickening out, afraid my grandmother would wake up and catch us, etc. He had trouble with the condom. I said I wasn't going to have sex without one, but let him guilt me into it because he'd ridden all that way in the snow. As I recall, it wasn't very good, although it got better.

Our relationship problems began when he decided he wanted to impress the popular crowd and told everyone in class. I came out from class one day to see "whore" and "slut" written in permanent marker on my locker. He wanted sex every time we saw each other (which was every day at school), trying to get me to cut class to do it, and convincing me to walk home from school, instead of staying after for a club, so we could go to the woods. I ended up being 2 hours late getting home, 2 hours later than the late bus would have gotten me there. My parents were pissed that I'd walked home without calling.

In the end, he got possessive and pushy, physically violent when I denied him sex (like after I had oral surgery on Valentine's Day). I had to get a restraining order after he started stalking me when we broke up.

So, yes, I had problems with being criticized by my peers, at least initially, though some of that was caused by his social status (awkward special ed kid who transferred in from a private school in high school), and his immaturity to know when and where it was appropriate to be sexual (like, not in school). I did not handle the abuse well, and gave in when I shouldn't have, because I grew up in a verbally and physically abusive household. My fear response was to give him whatever he wanted, so he wouldn't be mad.

We never had any STD or pregnancy issues.

I never told my parents that we had sex, in part because my step-dad got angry after my very first boyfriend kissed my cheek a couple of years earlier, and I didn't want him to physically hurt my boyfriend. I did tell them when the relationship had gotten toxic, but only because I'd been slammed into a locker and choked out in school, and skipped school the next day (the first and only time) because he was watching for me to get off the bus when I got to school.

We had to go to mediation, so my parents had to get involved. I got a "no being within 10 feet of me" restraining order.

All of my relationships and sexual relationships after this went well, except for the one before Runic Wolf, where my ex was afraid to have sex with me because he wasn't ready, and dumped me, rather than be honest.
 
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nondy2 said:
Since people have written about have sex early - would some of you share your first experiences? In retrospect, did you handle the relationships well? Did you have any problems socially, being critized by others? Did you have any trouble with STDS or pregnancy? Did you tell your parents? Where they healthy relationships? It would be great to have insight. I didn't have sex until 1st or second year in college. I wouldn't say I had my first "successful" sexual relationship until 24, and even that wasn't so great!
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I lost my virginity three weeks before my 16th birthday. I was emotionally and physically ready for it. I'd given it a lot of thought. I knew it was going to happen "soon" but I hadn't planned on an exact date. The relationship lasted a year after that, which IMO is pretty good for any 16-year old. It was as healthy as any teenage relationship. It ended because we'd started fighting a lot. Basically we outgrew each other. But in terms of "successful sexual relationship" I would say we did have one.

Socially, no criticisms. I didn't go broadcasting it to the world, but it wasn't a secret either. My close friends knew. And that's how I knew that my friends were having sex, btw, to answer your other question. My friends and I did discuss sex. See, if you discuss sex, you can be relatively confident that they're doing it. If you don't discuss it, then you don't know whether they're doing it and not talking about it, or not doing it.

We usually used condoms. I was on the pill. Sometimes we didn't use a condom, and I'd get recurring yeast infections, which I eventually figured out I was getting from him. I had a couple late periods (100% normal for adolescent girls) and always was freaked out that I was pregnant, but never actually was.
 
saintvlas22 said:
I think that what is most important is taking into account your own child. Obviously, as a parent, you should impart your own experience to your kid, but remember that your example worked for you, and won't necessarily work for your child. If they are mature, responsible, fully aware of the consequences, and ready - then have at it. Obviously, you don't want the explicit details, but there doesn't seem any harm.
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What it comes down to is this: Unless you chain your child to his bed, you have no way to guarantee he will listen to your advice about sex. You can do your best to impart your opinions and values on him, but at the end of the day, the decision is his.

So you have a choice to make: do you "forbid" it, and then if it turns out he's having sex anyway, he won't tell you? And if he gets a girl pregnant, he'll struggle with it on his own, with no support from his family? Never mind that he'll be more likely to get a girl pregnant if he doesn't have a reliable source of condoms. If he can't keep them in his bedside table because he's afraid you'll find them, he may just have sex without them if the opportunity arises.

Or do you tell him that you'd prefer he wait, but acknowledge that the final decision is his alone to make? That if he does decide to have it, that you'd prefer he tell you so you can guide and support him through it?

I agree that 10 or 12 is too young for most people to have sex. But you know what? It's not your body, and it's not your choice. Is it the right choice? Probably not. But that's their mistake to make. You can't teach a kid anything by shielding them from reality. Life comes with difficult choices and is full of mistakes.

My best friend's parents forbade her from having sex. Do you think that stopped her? No. And guess which one of us accidentally got pregnant at 16? And how much fun do you think it was for her to deal with the miscarriage when she wasn't even allowed to tell her dad that she'd had sex in the first place, never mind gotten pregnant and later miscarried?

The best way to keep your kids safe is to give them information, and then let them make their own choices. Support their choices and be there to support them when they fuck up.
 
SchrodingersCat said:
What it comes down to is this: Unless you chain your child to his bed, you have no way to guarantee he will listen to your advice about sex. You can do your best to impart your opinions and values on him, but at the end of the day, the decision is his.

So you have a choice to make: do you "forbid" it, and then if it turns out he's having sex anyway, he won't tell you? And if he gets a girl pregnant, he'll struggle with it on his own, with no support from his family? Never mind that he'll be more likely to get a girl pregnant if he doesn't have a reliable source of condoms. If he can't keep them in his bedside table because he's afraid you'll find them, he may just have sex without them if the opportunity arises.

Or do you tell him that you'd prefer he wait, but acknowledge that the final decision is his alone to make? That if he does decide to have it, that you'd prefer he tell you so you can guide and support him through it?

I agree that 10 or 12 is too young for most people to have sex. But you know what? It's not your body, and it's not your choice. Is it the right choice? Probably not. But that's their mistake to make. You can't teach a kid anything by shielding them from reality. Life comes with difficult choices and is full of mistakes.

My best friend's parents forbade her from having sex. Do you think that stopped her? No. And guess which one of us accidentally got pregnant at 16? And how much fun do you think it was for her to deal with the miscarriage when she wasn't even allowed to tell her dad that she'd had sex in the first place, never mind gotten pregnant and later miscarried?

The best way to keep your kids safe is to give them information, and then let them make their own choices. Support their choices and be there to support them when they fuck up.
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Wow, someone just used "there" and "their" correctly in the same sentence! Two out of three ain't bad. (i just used "ain't" correctly too. And "too". This is fun.)
 
nondy2 said:
Since people have written about having sex early, would some of you share your first experiences? In retrospect, did you handle the relationships well? Did you have any problems socially, being criticized by others? Did you have any trouble with STDS or pregnancy? Did you tell your parents? Were they healthy relationships? It would be great to have insight. I didn't have sex until 1st or second year in college. I wouldn't say I had my first "successful" sexual relationship until 24, and even that wasn't so great!
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I was sexually abused over lots of years and by different people as a child, so I'm a little touchy about what constitutes 'first.' I suspect that most of the 'problems' that followed were very much related to that. I also did not know that until I was 29.

Given that, I first chose to have sex with a boy when I was 15 and some months. He was a very bad boy. He smoked, got detention, probably spent time in juvy. His dad was dying of cancer. His mom was long gone (many years later he wrote me from prison). I knew he wanted to have sex with me and I had been resisting. I wore what I thought were my least sex-friendly clothes (hard to get into). He actually cried. I finally had sex with him, outdoors, on the back steps of a church. There was no latex whatsoever.

The next day, he brought me a rose in the school office where I worked. His eyes got heavy. He was all, I dunno, in NRE with me? In that moment, I found power. Pathetic, but I remember thinking I pwned him. And I did.

Later, I found out he was telling people I wasn't a virgin because I didn't bleed. I realized that boys did not get told the same things girls were told in sex education class.

I continue (37 years later) to be amazed at men's ignorance of female anatomy.

I told him he wasn't the first thing to be up there. (I'd had a gyn exam by then, and I used tampons.) *duh* It's not like he told the whole school. I was quite a slut, given the times; however, everyone knew me as the best little girl in the world, and they would have been shocked to know what a slut I was; and had anyone told them, they would not have believed the teller.

Also, after I'd 'given it up,' I figured there wasn't much difference and I might as well enjoy it. At some point, I had sex with the boy who had been my boyfriend previously. Then I had my 'long-term' boyfriend. We had sex like rabbits.

My parents knew, but never really explicitly discussed with me. At one point, I told my mom I wanted the car, so I could go to Planned Parenthood. She offered to take me, and I said I felt like I'd like to go alone. I was all convinced I was going to get the pill. They ended up convincing me to get diaphragm. Yeah, a few times with that, and I went right back for the pills. I was mostly excessively lucky that I never got pregnant.

That was also before anyone knew about AIDS.

It was not a healthy relationship (any of those three), but my long-term was the healthiest possible, given our ages and our issues. Both of our parents were as supportive as they could be (given our ages and their [massive] issues). I look back on it with much more kindness than I had while I was in it.

We were masses of hormones, flailing in the darkness. I remember thinking then, I better do all the crazy shit I'm gonna do, because when I get old, I'm not gonna do this crazy shit. 😂
 
NovemberRain said:
I was sexually abused over lots of years and by different people as a child, I'm a little touchy about what constitutes 'first.' I suspect that most of the 'problems' that followed were very much related to that. I also did not know that until I was 29.

Given that, I first chose to have sex with a boy when I was 15 and some months. He was a very bad boy, smoked, got detention, probably spent time in juvy. His dad was dying of cancer, his mom was long gone (many years later he wrote me from prison). I knew he wanted to have sex with me and I had been resisting. I wore what I thought were my least sex-friendly clothes (hard to get into). He actually cried. I had sex with him, outdoors, on the back steps of a church. There was no latex whatsoever.

The next day, he brought me a rose in the school office where I worked. His eyes got heavy. He was all, I dunno, in NRE with me? In that moment, I found power. Pathetic, but I remember thinking I pwned him. And I did.
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That was one of the most amazing things I've read in a very, very long time.
 
Thank you, guys! These stories make me realize that I was a very sexual teenager and wish I'd had access to a sexual relationship as a teen.

Not only was it my location and family, but society's insistence that "crippled" people (I have mild CP) are not sexual beings. It took me 40 years to get to the point where I was sexually empowered, and utterly happy with my sexual body, honestly, with the help of some 28-year old boys who love older women, and are much cooler about disability than older generations. I've only been turned down on OKCupid (explicitly because of the CP) by men over 40. :(

SCat. I respect your views, but I never knew what I would think about raising a child until I actually did it. For me, all the things I believed in theory went out the window when I began to deal with a real human boy.

That said, I think I'm misunderstood here. I don't forbid. I am all for talk, and all that.

What is very interesting for me here is that I come off as a conservative parent on this forum, but to my knowledge, I am much more sexually liberal (and liberal in discussing gender, race, and disability) than any parent I know in real life. None of my boy's friends' parents discuss sex at all. I've never even met a parent who taught their kid what a disability is (unless it's in the family).
 
nondy2 said:
Not only was it my location and family, but society's insistence that crippled people (I have mild CP) are not sexual beings.
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I have never understood that kind of mentality. I work with developmentally disabled adults and they get more action than our entire staff combined.
 
Helo said:
I have never understood that kind of mentality. I work with developmentally disabled adults and they get more action than our entire staff combined.
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I agree with you Helo. The one thing I've noticed, working with developmentally disabled adults, is that it isn't the staff discouraging these relationships, but the families. They seem afraid that their children will have children who they will in turn be responsible for, so it comes down to us to educate everyone involved on sex. Especially those who live in group homes where in the past, relationships were not encouraged by staff. It is law here in NY anyways, that our clients have the right to this and we must support it.
 
BrigidsDaughter said:
I agree with you Helo. The one thing I've noticed, working with developmentally disabled adults, is that it isn't the staff discouraging these relationships, but the families. They seem afraid that their children will have children who they will in turn be responsible for, so it comes down to us to educate everyone involved on sex. Especially those who live in group homes where in the past, relationships were not encouraged by staff. It is law here in NY anyways, that our clients have the right to this and we must support it.
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That's part of the heartbreak of where I work; we have to discourage virtually all physical contact. And while I see the purpose, I think it does a grave disservice to the residents. I would go insane without some form of physical contact, its a basic human need that we essentially try to train them into being uncomfortable with.

I can see the logic behind it; these are people who dont have the most reliable decision making skills and may accidentally do something to someone that violates a boundary without intending to. But I think risking that is far preferable to voiding ALL physical contact.

I can also see the thinking behind families not wanting disabled people to have kids. Most of the people I work with are nowhere near equipped to handle children. And their parents are often in their 70s and 80s, so raising another child is unlikely to happen. That said, I feel like there are better choices than forcing a kind of asexuality on them. We had a resident whose family convinced them to get a vasectomy out of a desire not to have kids. He went along with the idea, but I feel serious misgivings about it, because it was likely not entirely his choice.
 
I just watched a really good documentary, called Monica and David, about two people with Downs who marry. Part of the issue I had with the film was exactly what you guys are talking about. While their mothers let them marry, they won't let them join the work force, because they were afraid of Monica and David facing prejudice, and their thrust to protect them kept them more like children, and made having a baby out of the question.

For me, it was just a matter of men being tied to the normative body -- my movement is different. I do think the younger generation, though, is being exposed to people of all genders, and this understanding of trans and so on makes understanding of disability easier.
 
It's more a matter of exposure than anything else. I live in LA where the population is pretty diverse, so disabilities are fairly common and nobody really does much lookie-looing unless they're out-of-towners.

Men are tied to the normative body for specific reasons. I'm all behind the "everyone is beautiful in their own way" idea, but we have some fairly sexist mating instincts that we still haven't conquered yet. All humans do.
 
SchrodingersCat said:
I agree that 10 or 12 is too young for most people to have sex. But you know what? It's not your body, and it's not your choice. Is it the right choice? Probably not. But that's their mistake to make. You can't teach a kid anything by shielding them from reality. Life comes with difficult choices and is full of mistakes.
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Excuse me, but nobody ever said anything about hiding or distorting reality. And though I agree with most of your points, your philosophy of letting a child do whatever they want because you feel that letting them make a decision is more important than the end result is contrary to... well, parenting.

Information and talking is one thing, but especially at certain ages, there are things that are non-negotiable. So yes, you can forbid your child from doing something because that's kind of how it works being a parent - doesn't mean it will work, but it's not a violation of any kind or always unwise. It's hard and it sucks that they won't listen and understand the reasoning, but that's how kids are. We all remember shit that we did a teenagers, or as little kids, because we didn't listen to our parents or thought we knew better. It's the parent who has to guide, and sometimes, yes, they have to be more than a little firm.

Didn't do a chore you were supposed to? Go to your room. Stayed out late past the curfew that was laid down? Forget about going to the school dance. Saw that boy you were forbidden from hanging out with? You're grounded for a week.

None of these things are unreasonable - they are just a part of most people's parenting. Again, every child is different, and you may never have to do this. Hell, you may have to do this and it won't work worth shit. But you gotta make hard decisions because YOU are the one equipped to deal with such things. As nice as your view of leaving it up to the child is, they are not always capable of handling things themselves. That's why the parents are there. Not to say that parents are always right, but when a critical decision for an inexperienced kid is needed, having a parent's input is just as important as the consent of the child.
 
saintvlas22 said:
Excuse me, but nobody ever said anything about hiding or distorting reality. And though I agree with most of your points, your philosophy of letting a child do whatever they want because you feel that letting them make a decision is more important than the end result is contrary to... well, parenting.

Information and talking is one thing, but especially at certain ages, there are things that are non-negotiable. So yes, you can forbid your child from doing something because that's kind of how it works being a parent - doesn't mean it will work, but it's not a violation of any kind or always unwise. It's hard and it sucks that they won't listen and understand the reasoning, but that's how kids are. We all remember shit that we did a teenagers, or as little kids, because we didn't listen to our parents or thought we knew better. It's the parent who has to guide, and sometimes, yes, they have to be more than a little firm.
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I didn't so much advise "letting a child do whatever they want" as I pointed out that children will do whatever they want, whether you "let" them or not. You admit this yourself.

The point I'm trying to make is that educating your children is a far more successful way of guiding their behaviour than are strict rules that you cannot enforce. I haven't done a formal survey, but I know that when I was in high school, a lot of my peers would rebel and reject their parents' rules on the mere basis of them being rules.

Every single person I know whose parents were strict and laid down absolute rules responded in the same way: they did all the forbidden stuff, if they wanted to, and they just made sure not to get caught.

Every single person I know whose parents were supportive of their decisions still did whatever they were going to do anyway, but they told their parents about it and had support when those decisions created problems.

So the real choice you're making is: do you want your kids to tell you when their decisions run into problems, so you can help guide them through solutions? Or do you want them to keep it a secret, struggle on their own, and possibly dig themselves deeper?

I'm talking about rules you can't really enforce. You'll know if your kids do their chores or not, you'll know if your kids are out late. But you won't know if your kids are having sex unless they tell you or you catch them at it, so what's the point of making a rule that your kids can't have sex? You can't very well lock them in the basement or outfit them with a button camera to account for every second they spend outside of your house.

My step-daughter is now 19. She has a mom who laid down strict rules that were completely ignored. She has a dad who told her how life really works and actually talked with her about her choices. She now has nothing but contempt for her mother, but she visits with her dad on a weekly basis, and keeps him in the loop on what's going on in her life. Which relationship would you rather have?

My husband's mother told him "no porn, no sex." He kept the porn up in the hay loft and had sex whenever he could. He would have received a beating for getting caught. Did that stop him from looking at porn and having sex? Hell no. It stopped him from getting caught.

My mom made it clear that if I had any questions or wanted to talk about sex, she would help me figure it out. She helped me get birth control when I started having sex. She knew when I started having sex.

Every parent is different and you're obviously free to do what you think is best. I can control you no better than you can control your children, not that I would try. But I've observed that every parent I know who's more permissive and less controlling has a better relationship with their children than every parent I know who lays down rules and tries to control the lives of younger human beings in their home.
 
nondy2 said:
Not only was it my location and family, but society's insistence that crippled people (I have mild CP) are not sexual beings. It took me 40 years to get to the point where I was sexually empowered utterly and happy with my sexual body -- honestly with the help of some 28 year boys who love older women, and are much more cool about disability than older generations; Note: I've only been turned down on cupid (explicitly because of the CP) by men over 40 :(.

What is very interesting for me here is that I come off as a conservative parent on this forum, but to my knowledge I am so WAY far sexually liberal (and liberal in discussing gender, race, and disability) than any parent I know in real life. None of my boys friends parents discuss sex at all. I've never even met a parent who taught their kid what I disability is (unless it's in the family)
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nondy2,

Welcome to Cougartown! It's a nice place, isn't it?

I am also repeatedly astonished and saddened by U.S. attitudes, namely, that disabled people aren't, can't be, or shouldn't be sexual beings. Ridiculous. And totally not the reality.

I also note that the last paragraph from nondy2 above illustrates perfectly the sad state of sexuality education and parenting in much of the U.S. today. This board is likely a far outlier of sex positivity, openness, and honesty. I don't think nondy2 is a conservative parent at all, but way ahead of the curve in talking about sex in a real way. It makes me sad that this board, and parents like nondy2, seem to be so much in the minority in the U.S.
 
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SchrodingersCat said:
I didn't so much advise "letting a child do whatever they want" as I pointed out that children will do whatever they want, whether you "let" them or not. You admit this yourself.
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I certainly did point that out, yes. However, it seems to me that you blur the line between being supportive of your kids when shit happens, and letting them do shit regardless of the consequences. Simply letting them know you'll be there is important, but enforcing rules is also equally important.

You're not going to stop loving your son if he gets a girl pregnant, but he should damn well know that if it does happen, you're going to put his ass through the wringer. Yes, you can talk to him and inform him of the life choices that entail, but I see no issue in laying down some good old-fashioned authority. You are the provider. You are the holder of resources. You are the one in charge. Again, that's how parenting goes. You are indeed meant to control your kids, because how the heck else are they going to traverse life in their early stages of life? They have nothing to draw on.

Also, strict parents =/= bad parents. I have no idea the situation with your daughter. But I had strict Chinese parents. At the time, I hated their rules, but years later, I am now aware that I was a little shit, and if I didn't have some fear of their wrath in me, I would have gotten kicked out of school and/or run off. Again, different situation, but not an invalid method at all. My personality at the time would have taken advantage of any leniency they would have shown. If you were my parent, I would have walked all over you, knowing that I could do shit right in front of you.

If you have a wild child, it doesn't matter how much of a buddy you are to them. You're just going to get exploited, and your kid will have a messed-up life, because you couldn't assert yourself and shine a light on their antics with the fact that you're one who is supposed to be in control.
 
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I think it impossible to gain the perspective of a parent until you are one.

SC -- you have some good points, but you seem to be coming from a parented perspective, rather than a parenting one. The only thing you said that stressed me out a little was the comment that you sort of thought it was "human" for my ten year old to watch porn, and it was no big deal.

It was a huge deal.

Luckily, we're all through it. I have asked him numerous times if he wants a magazine. He just wants to put it all out of the picture. We put stuff on his computer that make it impossible to go there. In fact, he wanted that! He found the entire thing stressful, but he also remained compelled - which I guess speaks to the strictness (which I am not). He wanted restrictions and guidelines to help him.
 
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