Need some advice

[polyinga]

Hello! I've only been practicing polyamory for the last (almost) year and currently I have 2 people that I love in my life, which has been pretty amazing. One is a long-term partner of 4,5 years. The other relationship has been almost 6 months now and is truly moving into becoming something beautiful and lasting. He came into my life when I had been openly poly for only a few months and is the first person I truly fell in love with. He is an extremely supportive and understanding person, who makes me feel very appreciated and cared for.

The thing is, though, I am having problems with my long-term partner. We have been drifting apart for a long time now because of a lot of things that have happened between us. To make a long story short, he has a troublesome ex that abused him. They have a child together. I supported him through a custody procedure over the last 2,5 years, to the extent that I forgot about myself and neglected my own needs.

I am slowly coming back to them, and setting boundaries, but I find it hard to trust him now, because he has broken pretty much every trust I ever had for him. Also, going into polyamory, he broke my trust over and over. He went back and forth between being okay and into it, and then turning around and being upset at me for having feelings for someone else. I understand it is a big change, but he truly made me feel so shitty and alone in this, and almost forced me into choosing between people (at least that is how it felt for me). So nowadays I feel kinda bad mentioning to him being with my other partner, especially since our relationship is not great...

I just don't really know what to do, how to go forward and what is fair. I know what I felt for him in the beginning, but I am not sure we can get that back.

Also I feel like his version of poly is so much more centered around sex then mine is. I am more interested in mental and emotional connections. The sex is truly a bonus in that case. Nor am I interested in quantity, so to speak. But he has expressed an interest in sleeping with different people pretty much since the beginning of our relationship, as if it was just "tasting different types of candy," as he put it.

He currently struggles with mental health issues and doesn't see anyone else. But I always get the feeling that the reason it's so hard for him is because I am the one with multiple relations, and not him, and he seems jealous, tbh. I don't know... maybe we just differ too much in our values?

Also I am getting unsure because I have this great other relationship that is much more easygoing and safe. I get scared that I let that cloud my judgement towards him. On the other hand, I truly don't think my judgement is clouded for the first time in a long time. I just am very unsure of what to do. Sometimes I want to take a break from him, but I don't want to take a break from the other relationship. Is that fair? Does anyone have any advice or have worked through something similar?
Xoxo

 

[Evie]

I'm pretty sure you know that poly can shine a light on any cracks in the more established relationships. It seems like that is what is happening here.

And two different approaches to poly can be a huge challenge. I'm watching a partner and his wife go through that now. She's with one person, he's with four. None of his four are as time consuming as her one, overall he's more likely to spend a night at home alone than she is. And yet she's upset he has four more casual (compared to her) people, and he's upset she is so enmeshed with one guy who doesn't treat her so good.

Poly is tough with mismatched desires from it. And I bet things are pretty easy with six month guy because you're both still on your best behaviour, not having to have major life logistics conversations or getting ancy over domestic labour division.

Perhaps you do need to choose, but not between the guys. Perhaps you need to choose you...what does that look like?

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Inga,

Welcome to the board.

Can we give your partners names? I will choose Karl for your longer-term partner and Alex for the newer bf.

I am assuming you're female...

So, things seem to have gotten rocky with Karl. That might have happened even without the open relationship. It sounds like the custody battle and his lingering issues with having been abused made you two become distant. Perhaps you decided to open the relationship because you were becoming dissatisfied with each other, as a sort of "Band-Aid" on the hurt. (This never works, btw.) Or maybe you got very interested in Alex when you were still in a mono relationship, and opened too quickly, with little research beforehand. All while Karl was going through his issues with his ex and his kid. That's a lot!

It sounds like you are polyamorous and Karl is just polysexual. He wants to have sex with various people, but not get overly involved. You are in love with Alex. He might be a better partner for you. It seems like he's more supportive and respectful, but as Evie pointed out, it's early days yet, you two have NRE (new relationship energy, or infatuation). Unless you'd been platonic friends for at least a couple of years before you started dating, you probably don't really know each other that well yet.

So Karl is "jealous" or feeling possessive of you, and doesn't like you being emotionally involved with one other someone. He wants you to just be like him and have multiple casual relationships. If you two still respected each other, maybe your different dating styles could mesh.

But right now it seems Karl is still dealing with the aftermath of his former relationship. Maybe he hasn't dealt with the feelings he had and has about that. He might need therapy? He doesn't sound like a great dating partner. You tried to support him during his custody battle, but instead of him appreciating that, he did not treat you well?

What do you want to do? Would you like to separate from Karl?

 

[polyinga]

Hi Inga,

Welcome to the board.

Can we give your partners names? I will choose Karl for your longer-term partner and Alex for the newer bf.

I am assuming you're female...

Hi, yeah that's correct I am female

So, things seem to have gotten rocky with Karl. That might have happened even without the open relationship. It sounds like the custody battle and his lingering issues with having been abused made you two become distant. Perhaps you decided to open the relationship because you were becoming dissatisfied with each other, as a sort of "Band-Aid" on the hurt. (This never works, btw.) Or maybe got very interested in Alex when you were still in a mono relationship, and opened too quickly, with little research beforehand. All while Karl was going through his issues with his ex and his kid. That's a lot!

Yeah i do agree I might not have been the ideal time to open up a relationship due to what was happening. but it didn't feel like there ever would be a better time, because our relationship has been extremely complicated for bare minimum of 3 years.

We did discuss non-monogamy before, then it was because he was interested in sex with other people, something I at that point wasn't very into. but we somehow landed in that we were going to involve a third part in our sexual relationship. but it didn't happen.

and after that, all conversations of non monogamy wasn't on the table, due to other problems, until I opened up the topic again, expressing my feeling that I am probably polyamorous and would like to have the option to connect with other people and explore this. it wasn't very well received and there was a huge fight that almost ended the relationship over that, but after a while he changed his mind. I did explain that I wasn't comfortable just hooking up with random strangers and wanted deeper connections, something he couldn't relate to and couldn't understand why I would need the connection.

But we moved on with opening up from there, and I reconnected with a old lover of mine, in a friendly way, because he also had previously had an open relationship. so he became someone to talk to about this. we would talk and see each other, but it never really got further then that. Karl was very impatient with us "just hanging out" and expressed stuff like "I wish I could just drop you off at his door so you could have sex with him already, so this waiting was over," because he was impatient and uneasy about how it would be if I was with someone. and at the same time he expressed an interest in seeing me after sex with someone else because I'd be happy and that could spill over to him. But I was not really comfortable with him pushing things forward and saying things like that, tbh. I did tell him that he was overstepping my boundaries. But this also broke a lot of trust in him and his incapability of respecting my boundaries.

So after that, this died down with my old lover and I didn't do much with anything. I stayed open to the thought and left it at that, while he was actually actively trying to connect to people, openly talking about him being in a open relationship. which resulted in fights, with people being upset over this when he came onto someone's sister. Anyhow, not a great start.

Our relationship was still strained and I felt like I didn't trust him completely anymore.

A few months passed, until I met Alex at my work. we had actually been working around each other without talking much. so when we ended up in the same temporary team we connected very fast. We stayed platonic for a few months while hanging out. but I felt kinda quickly that i liked him a lot.

It sounds like you are polyamorous and Karl is just polysexual. He wants to have sex with various people, but not get overly involved. You are in love with Alex. He might be a better partner for you. It seems like he's more supportive and respectful, but as Evie pointed out, it's early days yet, you two have NRE (new relationship energy, or infatuation). Unless you'd been platonic friends for at least a couple of years before you started dating, you probably don't really know each other that well yet.

Yes I do agree. and it is still early. I think that is why I don't really know what to do. Because I don't want to pause mine and Alex's relationship, but at the same time, I feel like maybe I am being unfair to Karl.

Me and Alex just connect in a different fashion. I haven't connected that deep with anyone in a long time. it's not about the sexual part, but more our intellectual and emotional connection. With Karl I feel like the connection has always been more sexual, and while he has told me I am the love of his life etc., I don't really feel seen in the same way there, nor do I feel fully accepted. And until I felt something different with Alex I was fine with that. Maybe I settled for it. I don't know.

So Karl is "jealous" or feeling possessive of you, and doesn't like you being emotionally involved with one other someone. He wants you to just be like him and have multiple casual relationships. If you two still respected each other, maybe your different dating styles could mesh.

But right now it seems Karl is still dealing with the aftermath of his former relationship. Maybe he hasn't dealt with the feelings he had and has about that. He might need therapy? He doesn't sound like a great dating partner. You tried to support him during his custody battle, but instead of him appreciating that, he did not treat you well?

Yes, he's just in the beginning of starting therapy. they are still diagnosing him with either borderline or a complex ptsd. Feels like he has alot of work to do before he's anywhere near to himself again. As of now, I don't know who he is. he went from a nice person that was somehow self-reliant, to becoming very clingy, needy and unable to take any hard conversations and unwilling yo compromise. I do understand that it is hard while being mentally unstable but I also made it extremely hard for me, trying to support him while he became very angry, unreasonable and just flat unpleasant at times. The never-ending rollercoaster, never knowing if he was going to be happy or sad.

I feel like I have excused his behavior, because he had a very hard time. but it still hurt me a lot and caused me to shut down myself. I think taking the courage to bring up the polyamory in a way was my way of regaining myself in our relationship. Now that I have stopped making excuses, things with him is much harder. I tried explaining that things are different now emotionally, because of how hard everything has been between us. he says he understands, but at the same time, he wants us to go back to how good we were, and pushes to see me more, etc. I feel like an asshole for not wanting to see him as much, because I do care about him. I just don't know where we stand right now, and who he is.

What do you want to do? Would you like to separate from Karl?

I don't know, sometimes i want to and sometimes I don't. But I guess I have become scared that the NRE between me and Alex is affecting my decision. Even though Alex has never once expressed any discomfort with mine and Karl's relationship, he does however recognize that it seems to be hard for me and drags me down at times.

It's more myself feeling uncomfortable with my feelings for Karl being not as strong as they were, while my feelings for Alex keeps growing.

 

[Magdlyn]

Okay, great. All that extra information really helps.

I feel bad for Karl, I really do. However, if he does have borderline personality disorder (either from birth, from his upbringing), or PTSD from his former abusive relationship, boundaries on your end are definitely in order.

[I personally have a (now adult) daughter who's been diagnosed with BPD. She was born different, always on edge, her feelings always extreme (happy or sad), multiple tantrums a day, "rules for thee but not for me" (i.e., she could do anything she wanted, but would go into rages if others did things she didn't like). Eventually, as a teen she started acting out with very self-destructive behaviors.]

Anyway, I am glad Karl is starting treatment. Being in a relationship with someone with either of these disorders is very exhausting. A book that came out when my daughter was a teen, called Stop Walking on Eggshells really helped me with establishing and maintaining boundaries. You can of course, just google BPD to being with to see what you're dealing with/what he's possibly dealing with.

I am not going to tell you to break up with Karl and focus on Alex. I am not sure if you live with Karl? But you don't have to stay with him while he struggles and puts you through shit. BPD people do tend to "use" others, who end up getting fed up and leaving them. They can tend to be very self-centered. There are good therapies out there for this, such as dialectical behavior therapy, but it takes commitment and a lot of work to see results.

I'd say you deserve a stable caring partner. You wouldn't be the first person to draw back from a mentally ill partner who has not undergone treatment. Karl might be a better partner in a year or two, with therapy, perhaps meds, and lots of work. Fingers crossed!

[My daughter is not an evil person. She is actually quite loving, and can be caring, funny, sweet, creative, etc. But I've still had to draw back from a relationship with her.]

My heart goes out to you.

 

[polyinga]

Okay, great. All that extra information really helps.

I feel bad for Karl, I really do. However, if he does have borderline personality disorder (either from birth, from his upbringing), or PTSD from his former abusive relationship, boundaries on your end are definitely in order.

[I personally have a (now adult) daughter who's been diagnosed with BPD. She was born different, always on edge, her feelings always extreme (happy or sad), multiple tantrums a day, "rules for thee but not for me" (i.e., she could do anything she wanted, but would go into rages if others did things she didn't like). Eventually, as a teen she started acting out with very self-destructive behaviors.]

That does sound alot like his daughter as well.

Anyway, I am glad Karl is starting treatment. Being in a relationship with someone with either of these disorders is very exhausting. A book that came out when my daughter was a teen, called Stop Walking on Eggshells really helped me with establishing and maintaining boundaries. You can of course, just google BPD to begin with, to see what you're dealing with/what he's possibly dealing with.

Me too. Yes it does feel like it's never enough no matter how much you give, always something else needed.
Thank you, I'll check out that book, for sure.
I have been doing some research and I also have a close friend with borderline, she has gone through extensive therapy and meds, she says pretty much the same, that hard boundaries is the only way to go.

I am not going to tell you to break up with Karl and focus on Alex. I am not sure if you live with Karl? But you don't have to stay with him while he struggles and puts you through shit. BPD people do tend to "use" others, who end up getting fed up and leaving them. They can tend to be very self-centered. There are good therapies out there for this, such as dialectical behavior therapy, but it takes commitment and a lot of work to see results.

I do not live with him. We had a plan to move in together before it all turned this heavy, so I am very glad we didn't, I do think that would've ended our relationship, for sure.
That sounds very familiar, he also is very self-centered.

I'd say you deserve a stable caring partner. You wouldn't be the first person to draw back from a mentally ill partner who has not undergone treatment. Karl might be a better partner in a year or two, with therapy, perhaps meds, and lots of work. Fingers crossed!

Thank you for your kind words!
I have drawn back quite a lot. I do not see him as often or as long as I did. We don't do sleepovers anymore because I feel like the longer we are together right now the more fighting there is.
I mean, I wouldn't say no he's very happy about it nor understands that it is the best thing for me, but he also can't really change it.
So should I just try to keep it like that and not feel like an ass about it?

[My daughter is not an evil person. She is actually quite loving, and can be caring, funny, sweet, creative, etc. But I've still had to draw back from a relationship with her.]

I understand, must be very hard to deal with that

My heart goes out to you.

 

[polyinga]

I'm pretty sure you know that poly can shine a light on any cracks in the more established relationships. It seems like that is what is happening here.

And two different approaches to poly can be a huge challenge. I'm watching a partner and his wife go through that now. She's with one person, he's with four. None of his four are as time consuming as her one, overall he's more likely to spend a night at home alone than she is. And yet she's upset he has four more casual (compared to her) people, and he's upset she is so enmeshed with one guy who doesn't treat her so good.

Poly is tough with mismatched desires from it. And I bet things are pretty easy with six month guy because you're both still on your best behaviour, not having to have major life logistics conversations or getting ancy over domestic labour division.

Perhaps you do need to choose, but not between the guys. Perhaps you need to choose you...what does that look like?

Thank you for a good answer
I had a conversation the other day about the fact that I feel like I'm done with allowing other people to bring me down and make me feel bad and give up on myself. So I guess that is how that would look like, choosing to spend time with people that make me feel good, safe and heard, that encourages me to be myself.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello polyinga,

What would need to happen in order for you to feel like you could trust Karl again? I assume lip service would be inadequate. What would need to happen in order for him to start dating people again? I reckon both of you would need to be okay with his style of dating.

You seem to have some NRE going on, you're seeing Karl through darker lenses due to the rose-colored lenses through which you're seeing Alex. You mentioned taking a break from Karl, while not taking a break from Alex. Is it more than that? Would you like to break up with Karl?

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

That does sound a lot like his daughter, as well.

Oh, if he has a child, she's been through a lot too, from his struggles, his possible BPD or PTSD, or the abuse in his former relationship.

Me too. Yes it does feel like it's never enough, no matter how much you give, always something else needed.
Thank you, I'll check out that book, for sure.
I have been doing some research. I also have a close friend with borderline. She has gone through extensive therapy and meds, she says pretty much the same, that hard boundaries is the only way to go.

Yes. I hope she has worked hard and made improvements.

Another thing to look at for yourself is why you let yourself be around people with BPD, as close friends or partners. But the book probably addresses that. (It's been a while since I read it.)

I do not live with him. We had a plan to move in together before it all turned this heavy, so I am very glad we didn't, I do think that would've ended our relationship, for sure.

Good! You dodged a bullet.

That sounds very familiar, he also is very self-centered.

Thank you for your kind words!
I have drawn back quite a lot. I do not see him as often or as long as I did. We don't do sleepovers anymore because I feel like the longer we are together right now the more fighting there is.

So should I just try to keep it like that and not feel like an ass about it?

Well, your feelings are your feelings. I feel mama guilt about my kid, even though she's an adult. But I try not to dwell on it, because of my boundaries. We can't change others. Trying to help others too much can become a "white knight" situation, where you neglect your own needs and health and devote yourself to another.

I understand, must be very hard to deal with that.

It is heartbreaking. No matter how good a parent one tries to be, your kids may turn out well and successful, or struggle with mental health. I feel I did the best I could. I really worked hard to help her, but once she turned 18, legally I was limited in what I could do! I take comfort in the successes she does have. She's no longer using drugs, she has a good job, etc. I try to focus on the positives.