New and confused

[Dewsung]

Something similar has probably been posted before, but I couldnt find it.

So, I (27M) and my fiance (27F) have been discussing becoming poly. We have so far neither agree'd nor disagree'd on the matter.

She is the one who came up with the idea, but her reason is that she has no sexual desire anymore (as she puts it), and thinks being poly will fix this. I am very uncomfortable, and am considering agreeing because sexual interaction is very important to me, and its just not happening (terrible reasoning I know, hence no final decision as of yet).

We have been creating a list of rules and boundries for us both to follow, so if a limit is on one of us, its on both of us equally. I know relationships can not be planned out, and do not follow a plan, but rules and boundries can be beneficial, especially if we decide to be poly because we are not familiar with the lifestyle, and one rule dictates we have to communicate, and update the rules as needed.

I am reading the book More Than Two currently, but am not far. It seems that because all I am wanting is sexual activity (and I did not need the book for thus thought) is that its a very unfair reasoning to decide to be poly. I dont even want to be intimate with anyone else besides her, but I need that intimacy, which I am not getting, and doubt I will get if we remain monogamous........but I also doubt it if we decide on being poly.

I know a lot of my concerns are self centered, however, logically if she is not wanting intimacy at all, I dont know why or how being poly will change that, and it does make me feel as if she does not see me as enough for her is some way.

I know that was long, but I am hoping for some advice on how to proceed, things to consider. Because right now I see it as refusing poly and both of us being unhappy, agreeing, and me being unhappy, of course there is a breaking up option, but I do love her and do not want that either.

 

[KC43]

Intimacy and sex aren't necessarily the same thing. You want *sex*. It sounds like you already have *intimacy* with her, or you wouldn't be engaged to her. She wants--and has--intimacy with you. She just doesn't want *sex*.

I'm not clear from your post whether she's suggesting polyamory will make her desire sex more, or whether she's suggesting it as a way for you to get your sexual needs met when she isn't meeting them. Which is it, if you don't mind clarifying?

Another semantics issue: *Rules* are not beneficial to anyone, because they're an attempt to control other people's behavior. For example, "You can't fall in love with anyone else." That's telling someone else what to do, and that particular rule is impossible to enforce or follow.

However, boundaries and agreements can be beneficial. For example, rephrasing my above example as an agreement: "We agree that this opening is for sex only. If one of us falls in love with someone else, they'll cut contact with that person." And, ethically, anyone else who considers getting involved with either half of the couple MUST be informed of that agreement up front, because it's grossly unfair and, in my opinion, wrong, to get involved with someone and then when feelings develop suddenly say, "Sorry, can't see you anymore" with no previous indication that feelings weren't acceptable.

Rephrasing as a boundary: "I'm not willing to accept you falling in love with someone else. If you do and want to continue seeing them, I'll have to rethink my involvement with you." That might sound like the same thing as the "rule", but "You can't do that" is pretty much a closed door, whereas "If you do that, I'll have to do this because of my own feelings on the matter" gives the other person a choice. It might not *seem* like a choice; either you lose the person you've fallen in love with or the person you already were in love with. And it's a crappy choice to have to make. But it's still a choice, and there's some room for discussion.

It's also important to note that equal and fair aren't always the same thing. We've had people on this forum who have said, "Rules apply to each of us equally"... about things like "You can only have sex with someone of the same gender" when only one of the two people in the couple is sexually attracted to the same gender. The other either fucks someone they don't want to, or they don't have other partners. That is an *equal* rule, but it sure isn't fair. Having rules that are equal for both of you might sound like a good thing on the surface, but you might want to consider whether it's *fair* to both of you.

And I've gone off on semantics again... (You guys, you probably didn't miss that while I wasn't posting, huh? LOL)

I'm not sure where you're getting that only wanting sex is an unfair reason to be poly. Some would argue that opening a relationship for sexual purposes only *isn't* polyamory, since "amory" = "love" and if you're only in it for the sex, love might not be a thing. But that, again, is semantics. Bottom line, if you are only interested in opening your relationship so you can have sex with other people, and you have no desire for a relationship beyond that, it is perfectly okay--as long as you tell that to any prospective partners so there's no misunderstanding and you know you're on the same page.

It's extremely common for someone, on hearing that their partner wants to try poly, to think "Why am I not enough?" That's mono-oriented thinking, drilled into us by a society that teaches us to find our "one-and-only" and that's the end of it. Polyamory isn't about whether one partner is or isn't enough. It's about the fact that no one person can meet ALL the wants and needs of another. If they could, each of us would have only one parent, only one child, only one friend (or no friends at all if we have a romantic partner), etc. You are enough for her, or she wouldn't be involved with you; but there is an area of your relationship in which the two of you aren't matching up, and having the option to find other partners might address that disparity.

Best advice I can give: Continue discussing it. Instead of focusing on rules, focus on why each of you does or doesn't want to try poly. Perhaps set a time limit of how long you want to discuss and process before giving it a try; for example "I need to think about this and do more research; can we table the discussion until August and then come back to it?" And/or set a limit for how long you'll try it before deciding whether or not it's working, for example "For the next six months, we can see other people. After the first of the year, we'll sit down and talk about how it's going and how we feel about it. At that time, if it isn't working, we'll either close again or we'll end our relationship."

It's good that you and she are having these discussions before seeking other partners, and it's good that you're willing to learn more about poly rather than accepting it without knowing what you're getting into, or rejecting it immediately without knowing what you're saying no to.

 

[FallenAngelina]

....she has no sexual desire anymore (as she puts it), and thinks being poly will fix this.

Poly won't fix this. Take three giant steps back from that idea.

You two are in your 20s. What is her "no sexual desire" all about? There's a lot more going on here.
First and foremost, why are you engaged to someone who doesn't want to have sex with you?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

I could be wrong in my impression... But this doesn't seem to be about ethical polyamory. This seems to be about thinking about using poly for a bandaid.

FWIW? In your shoes? I would not get married until this is sorted out -- even if sorting it out mean breaking up. A successfull engagement to me ends in one of two ways:

• The couple is deeply compatible and moves on to wedding planning.
• Or the couple is not deeply compatible and they do not move on to a wedding. They end the engagement and spare themselves marriage/divorce.

logically if she is not wanting intimacy at all, I dont know why or how being poly will change that, and it does make me feel as if she does not see me as enough for her is some way.

You seem to realize that if she doesn't want to share sex with you, being poly won't solve it.

Why are you guys seeking polyamory as a solution rather than a sex therapist?

Whether she is asexual, or doesn't find you appealing, or whatever it is --- be honest with each other and sort it out. But def do not get married right now and do not Open right now. Take AWAY from problems, not add more layers.

Because right now I see it as refusing poly and both of us being unhappy, agreeing, and me being unhappy, of course there is a breaking up option, but I do love her and do not want that either.

When all the choices stink? You could pick the least stinky one that hopefully leads to better in the long term.

I think in this case, you might seek a sex therapist. If things don't work out? Break up, and be friends. Then you are still in each other's lives and each is free to seek a romance that is more compatible. You can still love her even broken up.

It isn't about you not "being enough" for her. The situation at hand doesn't seem like "enough" for either of you. But rather than talk honestly about that, you both seem to be dancing around it or seem to be trying to bend into pretzels trying to avoid breaking up.

"I dont even want to be intimate with anyone else besides her, but I need that intimacy, which I am not getting, and doubt I will get if we remain monogamous........but I also doubt it if we decide on being poly."

Does the thought of a sexless marriage thrill you? No.

Does the idea of sex with other people as a bandaid thrill you? No.

This is what the Engagement time is FOR. To see if you are deeply compatible.

It's sad to consider that maybe you are not, but it is better than marriage and divorce and all it's costs -- and I'm not talking financial. You could also take a marriage prep class in addition to sex therapist.

I suggest you Engage and get to the bottom of this before making any life changing decisions like marriage or Open relationships. I hope in your talks you are being honest and tell her this:

"I need that intimacy, which I am not getting, and doubt I will get if we remain monogamous........but I also doubt it if we decide on being poly."

If this relationship shape is not meeting your needs, like it or not you may have to think about allowing it to change into a relationship shape that DOES fit -- friendship. And stop trying to force a romance. Square peg round hole does not work.

Galagirl

 

[PhysicsIsPants]

She is the one who came up with the idea, but her reason is that she has no sexual desire anymore (as she puts it), and thinks being poly will fix this.

Has she been in a polyamorous relationship before or will this be completely new for her as well?

I agree with FallenAngelina that I do not see how poly will directly fix a lack of sexual desire. However, that being said, I have been advised by others on this forum that NRE or exploring kinks with new people can have a rejuvenating effect on an existing relationship. Additionally, opening a relationship can have a liberating effect in the sense that you both no longer feel like you have to be "everything" for your partner. For example, (since she has no sexual desire 'anymore') it is possible that opening your relationship will relieve some of the stress that she may feel and lower stress levels may help for her to recover her libido.

...sexual interaction is very important to me, and its just not happening (terrible reasoning I know, hence no final decision as of yet).

I would like to resonate with KC43. This is not bad reasoning. Everyone's poly is different... Just look through the forum posts and you'll find that there are all different kinds of poly relationships and arrangements. You feel that sex is something that you need and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Again, poly is at its core an acceptance of the idea that a single person cannot be "everything" for their partner. So maybe in your case this means that your fiancee is capable of satisfying your emotional needs but is concerned that she herself will not be able to give you the sexual satisfaction that you would like to have.

...so if a limit is on one of us, its on both of us equally.

IMHO, I do not think that this is the right way to go. I think that you both need to discuss what each of you is hoping to receive from opening your relationship and then talk about what each of you needs to feel secure. I can understand the desire for equality, but I personally feel that it is more important to have relative rather than absolute equality.

For example, let's assume the following:

• You are interested in having additional sexual partners, but are satisfied with the emotional intimacy that the two of you share.
• She isn't interested in additional sexual partners because she has no desire, but wouldn't mind finding another emotional outlet.

In this case, it would be equal to say that both of you can take on other sexual partners, but cannot become emotionally or romantically involved with them; however, would this be relatively equal? No, because she wouldn't be able to pursue what she really needs.

Because right now I see it as refusing poly and both of us being unhappy, agreeing, and me being unhappy, of course there is a breaking up option, but I do love her and do not want that either.

Love is a wonderful thing, but love on its own, in the vast majority of circumstances, is not the lone factor in whether two people will be happy together. From what you have said, you need sex. It is something intrinsic to your person.

If you decide to stay closed and marry her, then you are going to be upset constantly because you are not getting what you need out of the relationship. She may try to provide for your needs by choosing to satisfy you even at the expense of her own feelings, but that is not sustainable because it is going to place an undue burden on her both mentally and emotionally. This doesn't lead to anything good for either of you.

Opening your relationship can be a truly wonderful thing; however, it isn't for everyone. Some people, for whatever the reason may be, need to be in a monogamous relationship and simply cannot feel comfortable with poly. There is nothing wrong with that, but if this is where you fall, then you are going to have to ask yourself whether this relationship can provide for you what you need to be happy and fulfilled for years to come. It is not my place to answer such a question, but from what you have written, it sounds like you are already leaning towards an answer.

 

[Tinwen]

She is the one who came up with the idea, but her reason is that she has no sexual desire anymore (as she puts it), and thinks being poly will fix this. I am very uncomfortable, and am considering agreeing because sexual interaction is very important to me, and its just not happening (terrible reasoning I know, hence no final decision as of yet).

Does that mean that she is not attracted to you anymore, and hopes to find someone more compatible and perhaps carry over a little of that spark?

 

[Dagferi]

Poly will not fix problems. It is more like surprising someone by tossing firecrackers at them. Occasionally someone will just laugh and roll with it but 95% of the time people freak out.

 

[anamikanon]

I'll be blunt here. I don't see how sex with someone else will rekindle desire for you. Unless of course she doesn't want a mono relationship and that makes her itchy about sex with you. It doesn't seem very likely from my observation of human behavior, but this is with a bucket of salt. I have little experience of poly.

You sound like you want to be mono and have a priority on sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you and are trying to negotiate ways it could happen. It is worth a shot, but you should be aware, and probably are, which is how you landed here with the post that her having sex with someone else may not necessarily mean she will want it with you.

Sounds like the same thing, but it has different implications from the PoV of both of you.

This is looking like a mess. In my view, you should also look at this as simply a situation where one partner in a relationship no longer desires sex with the other. If you have an emotional bond beyond that, you could still have a functional relationship, but it isn't looking very good for you on the sex front, in my view.

One question is why you would see poly as a solution to lack of desire for sex with you, because clearly, if she wants to be poly (and I am assuming sexually, based on your post), she has a desire for sex overall, just not with you.

And if she isn't feeling desire for sex at all, what is she hoping to achieve with poly that a visit to a doctor or therapist would likely be more appropriate for? There have been times in my life when I have not wanted sex at all. Often coinciding with other priorities. I know women who have been off sex after medication or some other physical/emotional issues in their life. I don't think "lack of desire" overall could be fixed by simply trying to "do it" with someone else.

 

[CTF]

I agree with the others. Poly will not "fix" this. Granted, as a mono, I'm not into poly in the first place, but I digress....

I would suggest asking her how, specifically, she feels that it will fix it. It's possible that her answer might help get to the bottom of what her goals are. But also, don't beat yourself up over feeling like your concerns are "self-centered". Often, I think this whole argument that each side is being "selfish" about their desires is very immature. Sure, there are selfish people in the world, but neither monogamy, nor polyamory are inherently selfish. That kind of thinking does more harm to the human psyche than most people realize. There is nothing wrong with having a preference. Sometimes two preferences clash with each other so hard, that there can be no middle ground, but neither is wrong.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Dewsung,

It seems to me that your fiancée wants polyamory, but you want monogamy. Given that you also have a sexual/asexual incompatibility, it might be a good idea to see a sex therapist for awhile. But if that doesn't improve the situation, I'm afraid I have to advise you to break up.

It's like you said yourself, if you try monogamy, you'll both be unhappy; if you try polyamory, you yourself will be unhappy. And I would suggest that if you're unhappy, your fiancée will probably also be unhappy because you're unhappy. So as matters now stand, you have two unhappy people in an unhappy marriage. Sometimes when you love someone, you have to love them enough to let them go.

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but it's the best I can think of.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

 

[tenK]

I think it all boils down to one thing: is your fiancée asexual, or just not desiring sex with you? If it's the former, then I can see how having an open relationship - although not necessarily a poly one - might be helpful. If it's the latter, (and of course, it might be hard for her to know which it is herself without exploring a little) then I think opening your relationship could do more harm than good. You sound upset that she does not desire sex with you now (I would be upset too). Imagine how much worse you might feel if that remains unchanged, but she is really into having sex with someone else? One of the things you will read in More Than Two is the importance of a relationship being healthy and functional before being opened. As other posters have said, make doubly triply sure that this is the case in yours a) before seriously considering opening, and b) before marrying. If she is generally asexual, and your relationship is solid in all other respects, then you having a partner to be sexual with outside that relationship can be one way in which you both organise your lives to make things work better for each of you. However, if you are the kind of person for whom sexual contact and physical intimacy is a primary way in which you express your romantic loving feelings, or for whom the act of making yourself vulnerable during sex fosters closer emotional intimacy, then proceed with caution. Having sex with someone else will relieve the physical urge, but it won't direct your emotions back into your prospective marriage partnership. You will have to find another way to create that same feeling of intimacy with her - an asexual form of intimacy. Just as some people ARE naturally asexual and/or find no emotional closeness in the sexual act, there are other people who naturally do. Trying to force yourself to be one when you are the other is a tough and unsatisfying ask. If that's a dynamic you guys have got going on, then it might be best to transition your relationship into a close loving friendship now, because you are unlikely to be compatible as romantic partners in the long run.

 

[Ravenscroft]

Dewsung, it's complicated.

You've got some unwarranted assumptions to deal with, starting with your finacee's lack of sexual desire. It's too easy to ascribe this to asexuality or demisexuality or whatever. I've had lovers who believed they were "frigid," when it turned out to be more a matter of needing little bits of sexual technique at specific times during sex, in order to achieve thoroughgoing orgasm.

How will you feel if she finds that with someone else?

Is she committed to a nonmonogamous lifestyle, or would finding someone who is sexually satisfying lead her to become monogamous with that peson?

Yes, given super-positive sexual experiences, someone can gain confidence in herself, subsequently become more open to sexual exploration, & generally find more satisfaction than previously.

...but it's NOT simple cause-&-effect.

My feeling is that the two of you need to straighten out the sexual incompatibility before turning to polyamory as a "fix." Some form of couple-based counseling can give you a start. No book about the wonders of nonmonogamy will fill that gap.

 

[Spork]

PhysicsIsPants mentioned some ideas that flowed from conversations about his situation with his wife. What I perceive as being different here, is best described in terms of TONE.

Tone behind intro posts from PIP and his wife, FieryFlames were fairly joyful. They are pretty secure and happy and comfortable with one another. She is experiencing some libido issues and they're not sure if there is physiological cause or what, but both seem to come at the idea of polyamory with hands clasped together and hope on their faces. There is a FEEL behind their words that tells me, that they can navigate this together and indeed it might help with FF's libido issue.

Unfortunately, Dewsong, I am not getting the same feeling from your original post here. The feeling I am getting is fear, and a sinking dread from you, that your lady's interest in opening, and really the underlying issue of "why doesn't she want to have sex with me anymore?" is accompanied by a lack of security in the relationship and a fear that her feelings for you are not certain, that you are "not enough." Or rather...not the man she'd choose. You're afraid. And coming into poly with fear like that, and a lack of security in the original relationship...poly is gonna shake that up and you're going to struggle quite a lot, I think.

If your fiancee's libido were the only issue, I'd say that yeah...exploring other relations with other people (you or her) might help, especially if it's done in a relaxed, patient, no-pressure way. But I feel like your relationship itself should be on more solid ground than it is, before you look at this as a possible solution. And doing poly with a bunch of "rules" in place (which she may or may not be able to live up to, and might cause even more anxiety which might inhibit desire even more...) that isn't a relaxed and happy approach.

Honestly I'm not positive that you are right for one another, for marriage. You might want to take some time and try to improve your relationship if possible.

As for not enough... Do you think that one woman is just as good as another woman, we're all basically just interchangeable? Do you think that about men? People? This woman is YOUR woman, but she's just one of many fish you could have pulled from the stream? Or is she unique? Is she an individual unlike any other? How about you?

I happen to believe that we're all unique. Like each of us is a blend of spices, a new recipe under the sun. If you see it as, you've built a container that is made of the lego blocks of your own needs and stuffed her into it, well...how is that respecting her as a unique person? You could stuff any female human in there. For me, poly is about respecting that my lovers are unique humans, and I'm not trying to trap them in a mold I've created. I don't want them to change to suit me and fulfill all of my needs. And I want them to love me for who I am, and not just treat me as womanstuff to fill a container they've made.

When you look at it that way, the entire concept of "enough" or "not enough" is just silly and makes no sense. People are not like a container of liquid that is either "enough" or "not enough" to fill up a container marked "My Lover's Needs." People are people. It's like asking, "If you have a cat, why on earth would you need a dog?" or "If you have a car, how dare you want a motorcycle?" I think this concept that people are special and not just easily interchangeable...is often a big difference between mono and poly folks I've known.