New and Unsure

[newandunsure]

Greetings all,

As the name of the post and the user name suggest, this is a new adventure for me.

I am a 36 yr old male that has been in a monogamous relationship with a 31 yr old woman for the last 10 years. Or so I thought. About 7 years in, she slept with a friend. The affair lasted about a month or two. I found out about it, was quite angry, and hurt. She had told me that he tried to buy her, and steal her away from me, but she chose me overall and that's why the affair stopped. We resolved the difficulties brought on by discovery of the affair. In the course of recovery, we had multiple many discussions including what it would take for me to be OK with her having further relationships (sexual and not) with other people. It was hard for me to admit that I was OK with it, but my requests were that she keep open and honest communication with me, everyone related to any relationship be knowledgeable about the other players, and to be as safe as possible. I have marginal interest myself with relationships outside of her, but if nothing ever comes up, I wouldn't be upset. I am quite fine being monogamous.

Fast forward to this year. We were having a great time in each others lives and both were very happy. Then she suddenly was depressed and unhappy. It dragged things down in the relationship, and piqued my interests to investigate. She wouldn't talk to me, but I saw some online conversations with a friend where she talked about her lover. This time, I wasn't angry, just disappointed and hurt. Again, I confronted her with this, and found that she had been carrying on a relationship with a married man for the past 6 months that just ended and she was heartbroken (the depression thing). They had an arrangement where they only saw each other when there was no way it interfered with myself or his wife. I know many of the circumstances of their meetings, their dates, and details of him and how he treats her. I was disappointed and hurt that she didn't take the time to talk to me about him prior to me finding out on my own. I was disappointed and hurt that his wife also did not know anything about this relationship. The fear of either of us finding out was what led them to stop.

We have spent the last 5 weeks discussing and talking about things once again. They have since met up and gone on two dates that resulted in sex at my house. I am OK with this. She has shared the details of those times with me later in that day. Ultimately, their meetups do not affect me as I am at work and wouldn't ever catch them together. And although I have not yet met this man to get a personal feel for him (in the works), she is in love with him and he is in love with her. It helps to keep her happy overall - quite honestly, this is the happiest she has ever been that I know of. For this reason, I kind of already like him, whereas the first time she had an affair, I wouldn't have trusted that guy to come to my house just to visit. Ultimately the relationship will eventually end, and she will likely seek out someone new at some point in time.

She loves me - I know this. I am her primary relationship - I know this. She has constantly reassured me over the last month that she has no interest in leaving me, she just wants/needs more love and attention than I can physically or mentally provide. I have also been given power by her to say 'No' to any relationship/date that she tells me about. She says she will not do anything with anyone else that will take away time from me. I love her in return. I have shared little fantasies of watching her with her lover and it drove her and I both wild.

Given all that above... Why do I have this hole in me right now where I do not trust her? A hole where I am filled with the desire to push her away? I am sleeping poorly because of nightmares of not trusting her and just waiting on the next lie/deceit where she doesn't come to me to talk. I don't know where the truth ends and where the grey and fuzzy comes in. If I don't trust her, why am I here, and why should I stay?

Is this a reasonable way to feel? Am I overthinking and just worrying about a future that may never come to pass? Should I ignore these feelings and just keep on keeping on? Maybe she can and will keep communication lines open from here forward.

Does anyone have any insight or thoughts? Has anyone ever been in this same position and gotten through it?

Thanks for reading.

 

[Becca]

She cheated on you twice. It's reasonable not to trust her!

It takes time to rebuild trust. And you're really not going to find a shortcut by agreeing to poly. Poly requires honesty, and she doesn't have a lot if strength there.

So it's up to you, whether you want to do the work and put in the time to see if she can learn to be honest. Being poly isn't going to help you.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Given all that above... Why do I have this hole in me right now where I do not trust her?

Well that should be obvious, I would think. Because she's not trustworthy. Even when you had agreed to an open relationship and asked little more than honesty, she still cheated on you. Trusting her would mean you're a fool, and you don't strike me as a fool.

If I don't trust her, why am I here, and why should I stay?

Both good questions. What have you come up with for answers?

Is this a reasonable way to feel?

Yes.

Am I overthinking and just worrying about a future that may never come to pass?

No. Liars lie and cheaters cheat. It's what they do, and they often don't know any other way to do it. She's basically been cheating on you for your whole entire relationship. If you hadn't spied on her and found out on your own, she'd still be cheating on you. For all you know, she IS still cheating on you.

Should I ignore these feelings and just keep on keeping on?

That's up to you. If you can be happy knowing she's probably lying to you every time she opens her mouth, then I guess keep it up.

Maybe she can and will keep communication lines open from here forward.

And maybe the moon will fall out of the sky, but it's unlikely.

 

[KC43]

She's given herself a pretty ginormous loophole... She gave you the power to say no to any date she tells you about, but from the rest of your post, it sounds like she's never told you about any date until after the fact, if even then. It's kind of hard to say no to something that's already happened. So what makes you think she's suddenly going to change and start telling you about things up front?

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you deal in this.

Given all that above... Why do I have this hole in me right now where I do not trust her?

Because you guys were married and had vows. Instead of talking to you and updating them, she had an affair 7 years into the marriage. Broke those agreements.

Then you made a new agreement:

my requests were that she keep open and honest communication with me, everyone related to any relationship be knowledgeable about the other players, and to be as safe as possible.

And she broke that one too. Taking up with Married Dude and keeping you and Other Wife in the dark.

I was disappointed and hurt that she didn't take the time to talk to me about him prior to me finding out on my own. I was disappointed and hurt that his wife also did not know anything about this relationship.

And now you have this new agreement:

I have also been given power by her to say 'No' to any relationship/date that she tells me about.

And past experience tells you that she makes agreements she doesn't actually keep. She lacks follow through.

And that one is kinda sneaky. She can "keep it" by just not telling you about relationships. Which is what she's been doing all along -- not telling.

Is the other wife is still in the dark? That can't feel good if you are now part of the (3 people conspiracy) keeping Other Wife in the dark. There are trust issues here. If they are ok keeping Other Wife in the dark with your help, you will eventually wonder what they are ok keeping from YOU.

If I don't trust her, why am I here, and why should I stay?

I don't know. Why do you? What have you decided?

Is this a reasonable way to feel? Am I overthinking and just worrying about a future that may never come to pass?

Totally reasonable to feel this way after 2 affairs. Totally reasonable to re-evalaute this relationship and your continuing consent. You are NOT overthinking -- you are worried and doing some hard thinks.

Should I ignore these feelings and just keep on keeping on?

No. Do not ignore the work you have to do. Get on with it. To me these are the steps.

1) Has she apologized?

2) Have you forgiven?

• You can work to forgive and let the past all go and break up with wife so you don't have to deal with shenanigans any more.
  
• You can work forgive and let the past all go and give opportunity to make amends so you can continue with wife on a new page and not deal with shenanigans any more.

Which one do you pick? Track A or Track B?

Track A

3a) If breaking up... see a mediator or lawyer and get it done clean, peaceful and quick. Choose to linger in the healing place, not the dragging it out place.
​

Track B

3b) If trying to work it out... Have you both sat down to talk about what it takes to make amends? Things both have to do to change behaviors? Run the plan by a counselor? Do you both agree the list of things is fair? (Does making amends include breaking up with the affair dude? Coming clean to his wife before it continues?)

4b) Are you doing your list things? Is she knocking off her list things? How do you hold each other accountable? Are they measurable, concrete things? "Attend 10 appointments with counselor to work on communication skills" is concrete. "Get better at communicating" is not.

5b) Did you give it a fair shake and it's still not panning out? Break up. Jump up to 3a.​

I don't think you are done discussing how to handle this latest affair. Trusting her at her word when she does not have one and lacks some skills -- she's not going to learn them from the air.

I think you could talk to a counselor if you want to try to work through it and she could make active attempts to learn the skills so her "talk" matches her "walk" and she learns some integrity. Take a non-violent communication class, work with a counselor on her communication... something concrete.

Make sure you are not signing up for "same old song, different day" here.

EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS

I am a 3 strikes person. What's your number? Everyone is different, but do have one. It's not going to be 100, 1000, 1 million strikes right? If you are a three strikes guy, let her know she's on last strike. And if she screws up again? You are prepared to accept she's flaky with her Word and you don't like that behavior or want it in a marriage. You know what to do as a consequence -- you walk away. That's why you have legs. Gets you OFF the merry-go-round. She can keep riding that ride if she wants to, but you do not.

In fact, part of the amends list might be making post nuptials and drawing up divorce papers so you can feel safe enough taking an emotional risk with her again. Then you have an emergency Plan B that is already laid out. You guys can execute a fast, fair, and clean divorce for benefit of both.

Not be trying to make a new plan while under new emotional duress if she cheats again.

You are responsible for your own emergency preparedness. Get a counselor, talk to friends, gather support. The thinking you are having to do is hard. But it is not overthinking. Your situation simply calls for re-evaluation and a hard look at some things in your marriage.

I don't know if this could help you any.

http://felislunae.org/relationships-love/coming-clean/

I am truly sorry you deal in this.

Galagirl

 

[tenK]

Trust goes both ways. I think that many people struggle with the idea that they don't HAVE to sneak and lie and molly coddle their partner, especially early on in polyamory, when they are not sure exactly how their partner will react to the truth when told. You don't paint yourself as someone who has had giant meltdowns in the past, been angry when she's let you know things, or otherwise blown up at her when she's tried to be honest, but nevertheless it's worth thinking about your reactions as well. Are you creating a safe space where she can confide in you about issues, or are you interrogating her every move, and/or creating an atmosphere where she is walking on eggshells with you lest you react emotionally to finding out new and unexpected information about her? You should feel free to ask her things about this new man of hers, but try to make it light-hearted. Show her that it's about sharing information and being on the same page, rather than about controlling her. Some people, depending on the kind of household they grew up in, develop habits of being secretive at an early age as a response to over-bearing or volatile family members - so be aware that this could be absolutely nothing to do with you and her feelings of emotional safety with you, but part of a long-standing cycle of behaviour.

My gut says you should just give each other time to settle into this new honest, transparent way of being. Perhaps at some level she doesn't truly understand and trust why you would give her the freedom to date others like this. If you haven't already explained to her, as you have with us here, how much you enjoy seeing her truly happy, and how confident you are of your place in her life, and how you understand what you can and cannot offer her and are at peace with that, then you should start there. The rest is on her. She needs to work just as hard to make sure her words and deeds align in future, and to understand that above all, lying and deceit are the deal-breakers in your relationship, not her having relationships with others. Good luck!

 

[newandunsure]

Thank you for the replies and the perspective. Much of this reaffirms things I have already thought about and gives a good point of view from the outside.

Thank you Gala for the link and the list.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi newandunsure,

Maybe the first thing you should do is decide how many times your partner can cheat on you before you'll break up with her. So far she has cheated on you twice that you know of. What's the largest number you would forgive? You don't want to be a doormat, right?

After you make a decision on that, you'll probably start to feel a little more confident, and be able to work on forgiveness and a poly life.

Such are my thoughts for now,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

In fact, part of the amends list might be making post nuptials and drawing up divorce papers so you can feel safe enough taking an emotional risk with her again. Then you have an emergency Plan B that is already laid out. You guys can execute a fast, fair, and clean divorce for benefit of both.

OoOo I like that bit. It's one thing to say "This is your last chance." It's quite another to say "These are the divorce papers I'm going to serve you with if you cheat on me again. Last chance; don't screw it up."

 

[Magdlyn]

OoOo I like that bit. It's one thing to say "This is your last chance." It's quite another to say "These are the divorce papers I'm going to serve you with if you cheat on me again. Last chance; don't screw it up."

Ha! Yeah, pretty cool idea.

 

[vinsanity0]

I agree with tenK, as I am running into this problem with Cat, somewhat. My wife doesn't particularly like sharing details. She is afraid of how I will react. It is taking some effort on both our parts to reach a compromise on that. It has caused some trust issues with me, but it is working itself out.