New but not new

NewButNot

New member
So my wife and I are 37 years old and in our early 20's we played around with threesomes, they were fine and great but we were both young and didn't know how to control emotions or stress. On vacation last week I noticed a man with a woman on each arm and he looked happy as can be, no stress in life or none that is showing. Anyways my wife shows up a few days after I and I bring this guy up that I saw and told her I wished she or WE had a girlfriend. At first she looked stressed by this and I said if this is something stressful then we can drop it now and not explore this.

Moving forward she brings it up to me again and we chat, nothing huge but a nice chat about it. On our 8 hour long car ride home this topic was about 90% of the conversation. We realized for about 3 years we had a GF, we just didn't realize it. She became a great friend, wanted to focus on her career and raising her son and wasn't looking to date, so her needs to be with a couple worked perfect. We did everything together from time to time, trips, bbq, bdays, and bedroom activities. The rules were simple, if she was going to venture away from us it was fine, just tell us before hand so we can all stay safe. After years with her we all parted ways but until yesterday I had never realized she was our own girlfriend.

After some reading yesterday we came across Poly, this word is new to me and this is where I need some help with what it all means. I will outline what we are looking for with the hopes I get a better searchable term.

We have been together since 96, married in 00 and have one son. She is Bisexual and I am a straight male. We are looking for a woman who want's to be with us only, cannot have a bf or husband or outside flings. We want to stay clean and run zero risk of disease.

We are not looking to find the first woman and run with it, we want her to be like a best friend, enjoy the things we do, travel or want to travel like we want to or do. Give my wife things that I cannot always give, we are very sexually active but not 100% looking for the hookup factor, we are looking for a partner that enjoys the other 80% of our lives and the rest can come later. What is the term for any of this? I have read about the unicorn factor and I am unsure if we are searching the right way or is there a way?

We do know we enjoy this life, we would have to keep it under wraps as my son is 16 and I don't think he would understand. There are work around's to this and we hope to find someone we can share our life events with and share theirs with us.

Thanks for reading
D
 
Welcome! Be sure to hunt around these forums, there is SO much information and experience archived here.

Yeah, look up "unicorn hunter" in the forums here for why it is a bad idea. The general advice seems to be that finding a bi woman who will be into both of you, fit into your lives seamlessly, and not mind any strictures on her activities that you require, is mostly a waste of your efforts. You can't form a relationship with someone you haven't met.

I will wager that your previous relationship and your relationship with your wife, did not start out with a shopping list of rules and requirements, that it started out in friendship. You will need to go through the process of making friends, casual dating etc that leads to serious relationships. If you each go through the process individually rather than as a package deal, you will spread a very much wider net. The number of people who are looking to fall in love with two people at the exact same time is not huge. It is more likely one of you might find someone who they can get together with who is also willing to be friends with the other of you.

It will take time and emotional effort, just like any dating process. It may result in having to rethink not only the rules you want for your girlfriend but the rules you have in your marriage. You may find rules you did not even know you had until there is a problem. There will most likely be some amount of heartbreak in the process.

There also is most likely to be joy and fun, an expansion of your social group, personal growth and discovering new aspects of your spouse.

Good luck to you.

Leetah
 
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And your "unicorn" gets what out of this deal?

-She has to be a secret (so either has to never be around or live a total lie when your son or anyone else you feel "won't understand" is around, and can't be seen being at all "couple-y" in public or introduce you to friends of her own that might "reveal your secret")
-She can't date anyone else (but you two, presumably, get to still do all your couple stuff even when she's not around).
-She can't fuck anyone else (but again, assuming you guys aren't going to not fuck each other when she's not around, right?). You would date someone you can't trust to practice safer sex with others, instead placing rules around her body that you don't, yourselves, follow (meaning, if she can't fuck anyone else, you two shouldn't be fucking each other, either, since she's not "allowed" to have a boyfriend or husband--you wouldn't trust her to be safe even with a long-term partner, why do you expect her to do so with you?).
-You control her reproduction (since she's got to be a secret, I am presuming getting pregnant with your baby isn't going to be permitted, and she can't be fucking anyone but you two, so no babies for her!).

You say want someone to "enjoy the other 80% of your life," but you're already restricting this as-yet-unmet person from most of your daily life. What you really want is someone who is a marital and sex aid, with no plans, feelings, thoughts, or desires of her own who will fall into whatever box you create for her. This isn't a kind thing to do to someone.

As Leetah said, do a search on "unicorn hunters" and "couple privilege" on this site, and read the threads. Also, read "So someone called you a unicorn hunter."
 
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The reason I listed the way we would like things is because of the way we had things before, it just fit. Again I don't want to start out with these things we would want to start a process of finding the right person and I am sure with anything you change some things, add some things, subtract some things.

Is it wrong to have a list of things you want in your life even if you may not ever get that list completely? If you were to list them out sure it sounds restrictive, but I do feel trying to find someone who wants and needs as us might not be that hard, our location is very friendly for all types of relationships but our family might not be as accepting, with anything its a process.
 
It is good to know the kind of person and relationship you are hoping for, as well as what positives you have that will help you attract compatible people and form a good relationship. Most everyone has some idea what they are looking for. If nothing else one has to have something to post on dating sites!;)

You just have to be sure you have not inordinately narrowed your search such that you rule out or are ruled out by, people who could otherwise be compatible. For instance, what if one or the other of you met a man who fit your criteria? Circumstances can make what some call a "one penis policy" unhelpful and unfair.

Since you seem to have managed polyamory previously without a lot of trouble between the two of you, jealousy, time sharing, etc. I am hoping it will come easy for you again.

Leetah

Leetah
 
Are you going to divorce your wife so that both relationships with these ladies are equal? Rewrite your will and your retirement, so your new girlfriend has a safety net?

Are you going to sneak her the back door in every night, so no one sees? When you travel on the holidays to see your family, does she stay home alone? On Christmas morning, does she stay hidden so your son doesn't discover she exists? Ugh.

Right now you've structured it so she gets nothing, she's a secret and she'll never have babies. You don't trust her to have other relationships, yet you get to keep fucking your wife and building a life and a support structure with your wife. This woman absolutely deserves the same privilege. It sounds like you want her to sacrifice everything and all she gets in return is secret sex.

Good luck.
 
Your son is 16, almost an adult, and you don't think he would understand poly?

You know how I learned that polyamory was actually a thing and there was a word for it? From my then-14-year-old, who read about it on Tumblr and got into a lectury discussion about it with me and her then-17-year-old sibling.

During high school, both of my kids had friends who were dating more than one person in an open configuration, whether or not they labeled it poly.

When I first started seeing people other than my husband, which actually happened around the same time as the aforementioned lectury discussion, I *didn't* tell my kids. Mostly because I'd had custody issues with their father, and I didn't want him to find out and try to use it against me. But my kids were not ignorant. They saw that I was going out more. They overheard Hubby and me talking. I told the older one after they turned 18; I told the younger one because the older one came to me and said their sibling was afraid Hubby and I were going to get divorced or that I was cheating on him.

Your son, if he attends public school, almost certainly has friends who are practicing some form of poly or open relationship. If he has internet access, he's probably heard about or read about polyamory, swinging, etc.

In general, kids like seeing their parents happy. Obviously you aren't going to want to tell your son any sexual details, but if you explain to him something like, "Your mom and I are very happy in our marriage, and that isn't going anywhere. But sometimes, people like to have more than one person they love in their life. Your mom and I have realized that's how it is with us, and we're going to start seeing other people." At that point, if your son's anything like my kids, he'll roll his eyes and say, "Okay, so you're poly, so what?"

That doesn't address anything else in your post, but having parented two teens and worked in public high schools for over a decade, I get kinda irked when people assume that someone who's nearing adulthood "won't understand" things like this. He might not *like* it, but I can almost guarantee that he'll understand.
 
I get kinda irked when people assume that someone who's nearing adulthood "won't understand" things like this. He might not *like* it, but I can almost guarantee that he'll understand.

I agree. I have a 16 year old son and you know what he cares about? That I'm here. I'm a sane person and a fairly decent mother. Beyond that, he really has no interest or problem with who and how I date. There's no problem because I don't make it a problem.

I encourage you to examine this "secret" aspect. Personally, I am not against secret relationships, but the thing is, they are just not stable, not for the long term. No matter how much you reassure someone that she is loved, self esteem can become a huge issue. I've been "a secret" and my self esteem was fine, but I'm 55 years old and have a very practiced and positive sense of who I am. Being a secret has a shelf life, no matter who you are. For me, it was the Thanksgiving factor. That I couldn't sit down to the table with my lover and all of our loved ones was an emotional reckoning and became a deal breaker for me, so I had to end it after eight months, even though there's a lot of love on both sides. Why do you need this relationship to be a secret? The answer has way more to do with what's going on in you and your wife than it does with your 16 year old. KC43 is absolutely right here.
 
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And, did you read the articles or do the searches recommended?
 
Hi NewButNot,

I define polyamory as follows ...

  • Polyamory = "the state of being, or the ability and/or inclination to be, in a romantically-connected group of more than two adults, with the full knowledge and consent of all the adults in the group."
  • Polyamorous = "practicing, inclined toward, or having to do with, polyamory."
  • Polyamorist = "one who is practicing, or who is inclined toward, polyamory."
  • Poly = "polyamory, polyamorous, or polyamorist."
It sounds like you have a lot of restrictions on the person you want to be with, that is fine but just be aware that the person you want to be with may be opposed to some of those restrictions.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I have been doing a TON of reading, there is more out there than anyone could read in a year while reading daily for 12 hours.

Like parenting there seems to be no manual for this type of situation, I came here looking for advice which I am getting, but didn't come here for people to outright be rude like a few posts above. I am not saying it won't come out if it happens, but I want it on my terms, I don't want to open up to my son about his mom and I if we never find what we are looking for.

I don't even really understand on paper what I am looking for, in our minds we see it but it doesn't translate on paper very well. Why can't we look for someone who needs us? What if this lady is a busy person, wants to love a couple but also wants to focus on her career, friends, and her own travels and loves to see us when there is time? From what I gather I am not allowed to look for a person that fits the bill?

This is crazy to me that if you are dating in real life you would 100% look for what you want in a mate, but in poly you cannot search for those things, almost be picky? Our first relationship this is how the woman wanted it, it worked for her, it worked for us, we were all there for each other and the only reason it ended was she wanted to settle down and get married and look for someone to be her everything. This was 100% ok with us, no hard feelings no ill will. We were happy for them and still are.

What I don't need to do is jump the gun and explain my sex life and wants and needs with my son until its the right time. You all can express your thoughts on this as much as you want, but until you know each person you are commenting on don't assume there is a right way and a wrong way to approach this with a child, you don't know him or his past.

As for the one we are looking for, as I stated before I am 100% sure things will change, it happens in any relationship but from the hours I am reading there are people out there who don't want the stress of going out and dating, they want to focus on other things in life and a couple just might be their answer. I am not saying they cannot look for love, go date do whatever they want, I am saying on the sex part if we are all tested and are all clean we won't be running around putting you at risk, if you are going to put us at risk then simply say I think it's time I try other things. I can put my big boy pants on and say great I hope everything is perfect, come over for dinner, movies, camping, Las Vegas etc etc etc we are still close and still friends, I don't understand why having a certain set of standards or goals is a bad thing for her or us.

One last thing, I came looking for advice not to be badgered, looking to hear experience to guide not to be talked down to. If this is what this forum is about then I think you need to take a serious look at how people should be able to post and who should be able to join this group.

D
 
If I have acted offensively, I apologize 100%. As long as you find someone who is in agreement with you, you are doing fine.
 
Hi NewButNot,

I define polyamory as follows ...

  • Polyamory = "the state of being, or the ability and/or inclination to be, in a romantically-connected group of more than two adults, with the full knowledge and consent of all the adults in the group."
  • Polyamorous = "practicing, inclined toward, or having to do with, polyamory."
  • Polyamorist = "one who is practicing, or who is inclined toward, polyamory."
  • Poly = "polyamory, polyamorous, or polyamorist."
It sounds like you have a lot of restrictions on the person you want to be with, that is fine but just be aware that the person you want to be with may be opposed to some of those restrictions.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

See this is what I came here looking for and it's awesome someone decided to lay it out for me to read.

As for restrictions it's not like Hi nice to meet you, here is our list of guidelines. In all reality we all know each relationship strays away from the day you meet a person. I am not who I was in 1996 with my wife, my wife in 2016 is nothing like she was in 1996, we adapted and were able to grow together though some pretty damn tough times. I expect it to be the same with someone else, but I do expect they will have their own list of wants and needs that we will have to take into consideration also, and that's the beauty of this we can all work on it and see if it's a fit or not.
 
Everyone is entitled to look for whatever they like, of course. What we are saying is that you're restrictions are off-putting to many of us because they are so lopsided. They also greatly reduce your chances of finding anyone. There are exponentially more couples out there looking for "their" HBB than their are women interested in dating couples (seriously, take a look around here, and you'll find dozens, if not hundreds, of posts just like yours, generally accompanied by "we can't find anyone! Why not!?").

The jadedness you see here reflects the sheer number of these posts we see, and their similarities, which generally include "but we want what we want, why is that wrong?" And, it's not wrong to want what you want, but it can be unethical and/or unrealistic.

It sounds like your last person was a good match. It also sounds more like she was a FWB than a GF (which, btw, is totally fine, not everyone needs to be a romantic entanglement!). And, while it's possible she was totally faithful to you two exclusively for several years and sought no other emotional and sexual connections, it's also statistically not terribly likely that was the case (whether she told you about it or not). She had no space to be honest with you about things that weren't "I'd like to pursue dating others,"--it was your way or the highway. This isn't a safe space for communication, and she had absolutely nothing to gain by talking to you about it until she was ready to move on. But, even if she was entirely up front and just never bothered with other partners, it's an infinitesimally small chance you're going to find that again, especially with someone attracted to both of you equally, etc. etc. etc. etc.

So, onto safety. I am guessing you don't want to use condoms, right? Why wouldn't she be able to have a husband, like you have a wife, if she and her husband had also been tested? To me, this sounds less about safety (since having a married woman who was already in a poly relationship with her husband where you were all tested is logically a safer bet than telling an otherwise-single woman she can only get laid when you tell her it's okay) and more about your desired fantasy of two women and a one-penis policy. Again, you can have that desire, but if that's what it is, clearing up your actual reasons and motives is going to be really helpful to everyone.

The advice here is always to date separately, find folks you click with as individuals, and if they also click with the other partner and a triad forms, hooray! Since we know that is unlikely advice to be followed, at least be 100% open, honest, entirely up-front with any potential women you two decide to date. Many unicorn hunters try to "ease" their "thirds" into the pre-set ground rules so as not to scare them off. This ALWAYS goes poorly. Just say it up front. And, be prepared for what that is going to mean, which is less potential partners in an already small pool, and a specific kind of person that is likely to be attracted to this scenario. The latter may be a repeat of what you had before, but the far more likely scenario is a huge emotional explosion a few months in (I am not being negative, I am being realistic--again, just read the threads here, it's all there many times over).

If you haven't read the article I linked, please do so. It's one of the most-recommended reads on the board for a reason--it's excellent, and will hopefully help you two work through some of what you really want, why, how to approach those things, and what they mean to all involved, as well as how to communicate well.

We're not being rude, we've just all experienced this kind of post many times, and found the best communication is direct.
 
NewButNot, you can want whatever you want. I think what people here are saying is that 1) the more restrictions you place, the harder it will be to find that person. Yes you found it once before, but it sounds like it happened by chance... it might not happen again. 2) If you're going to have rules, they need to be about your own choices, not the other persons "if our partner chooses to see other people then WE will choose to end the sexual part of the connection" not "she can't see other people." Might sound like the same thing, but there's a clear distinction.

If what you guys want really is all of those things that you said, sure, you might find a bi woman who's looking for a fling or a shorter relationship that will fit the bill for a while. But if you're looking for something to last a long time, you're going to keep running into situations where your g/f is leaving you both to go find the other things she wants in life that you're rules don't allow her to do and still be with you.

Also, consider the rules you have and things that you want and are your rules really the only way to have your desired outcome? Rather than this woman not being able to sleep with anyone else, it would still minimize health risks if all partners just agreed to get tested regularly and that any new partner should get tested prior to intercourse... and of course, use condoms. An option like that is less restriction on the other woman while still protecting everyone's health. Not to mention, if you're not comfortable being "out" then there's going to be a large portion of the time where she can't be with you, so at least she could have another partner to share that time with.

That's just one example.... but my point is, before thinking up a "rule" instead consider what the goal is that you're trying to achieve with it and consider all options that would lead to that acceptable outcome. That will minimize relationship criteria and lead to a higher chance of you finding a partner that works well with your dynamic.
 
Hi NewButNot,

It sounds like you are willing to be flexible about your guidelines, which is a good sign. Do not be discouraged if you do not find the perfect girlfriend again; I think you were very lucky to find the one that you did.

I hope at least some of what I have posted is helpful to you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
NewButNot, you can want whatever you want. I think what people here are saying is that 1) the more restrictions you place, the harder it will be to find that person. Yes you found it once before, but it sounds like it happened by chance... it might not happen again. 2) If you're going to have rules, they need to be about your own choices, not the other persons "if our partner chooses to see other people then WE will choose to end the sexual part of the connection" not "she can't see other people." Might sound like the same thing, but there's a clear distinction.

If what you guys want really is all of those things that you said, sure, you might find a bi woman who's looking for a fling or a shorter relationship that will fit the bill for a while. But if you're looking for something to last a long time, you're going to keep running into situations where your g/f is leaving you both to go find the other things she wants in life that you're rules don't allow her to do and still be with you.

Also, consider the rules you have and things that you want and are your rules really the only way to have your desired outcome? Rather than this woman not being able to sleep with anyone else, it would still minimize health risks if all partners just agreed to get tested regularly and that any new partner should get tested prior to intercourse... and of course, use condoms. An option like that is less restriction on the other woman while still protecting everyone's health. Not to mention, if you're not comfortable being "out" then there's going to be a large portion of the time where she can't be with you, so at least she could have another partner to share that time with.

That's just one example.... but my point is, before thinking up a "rule" instead consider what the goal is that you're trying to achieve with it and consider all options that would lead to that acceptable outcome. That will minimize relationship criteria and lead to a higher chance of you finding a partner that works well with your dynamic.

I like this post a lot.

so with our last she was free to do what she wanted at will, we made it known if she was going to sleep with others we weren't interested in the sexual side of the relationship any longer. Our worry is the random hookups and not making smart choices. I am not sure if this is something where we would be together for 10 years or shorter or longer. I do know maybe I have worded my wants a little off and yes things could be worded better.

What we are looking for is a woman who wants to do things with us, dinners, movies, camping, vegas or other locations, these areas we are free to be open with no worries. My family lives in other states, this is not a risk for us to do thing with her. As for my son, he is 16 and has a life outside of the house, we have many friends who stay over (platonic) no feelings or relations. They do camping, holidays etc etc, I am no longer young and think of a threesome as cool, I am more into finding someone that we can fit their needs and they can fit ours, someone we can be best friends with and finally someone around our age vs younger. We are both very attracted with people who have the same values as us when it comes to friends and family and relationships.

Am I double standard? My wife is a rock, how she has ever let me be with other women still baffles me, but on the same respect I am sharing her with them also, I cannot fathom her being with another guy and on the same respects I do often wonder if she imagines it, but in talks about it she prides herself with only being with 2 men in her life, one before me.

So as far as I can gather we have the same wants, she has a little more needs than I can provide. I am not Mr. Cuddle and have insomnia so when I am trying to sleep I need a bit of space, she needs someone to hold her at times, she needs a someone she can provide love to also, again I love my wife I am just not the guy who wants to hold hands and dance around in public, came from a split house, 2 step parents , lots of yelling and zero affection for each other. I have tried to button that up, be different, be close and at times I just cant do it.

The last part, we are into the excitement. In the past there was only the one rule and our partner wasn't forced into anything, she would tell us how she feels I would tell her how I felt and my wife would do the same, and at times not all of us even agreed. It wasn't just a 3some situation as she did everything with us and the sex wasn't a constant. It was camping and other trips, meals, holidays and it well WORKED for all three involved. Again the only rule in place was the sleeping around rule which went both ways, we weren't able to have the random hookups on the side if we wanted to continue with her. When she started to get to the point where she wanted to date, have a family, change jobs and do other things we were more than happy to support that and wished her well. Even after getting married she still came over, spent time here with her sig other and nothing had changed except the sex aspect.

I will continue to read and learn, I don't think or I should say didn't think I would have a talk with my wife, come to a conclusion and put on our packs and go hunting for the right woman. I love my wife and my marriage and we have chosen the path of what works, what won't and to be open and involved. Like i mentioned before I do not think I am going to put a full list together and make sure I find it, I am sure things will change, add here , subtract a little here and work on being more excited and happy.

Thanks for the info, if a mod wants to lock this I am good with it.
 
What we are looking for is a woman who wants to do things with us, dinners, movies, camping, vegas or other locations....someone we can be best friends with ....she needs someone to hold her at times, she needs a someone she can provide love to.....

You're talking about a deep love relationship that is semi-closeted and sexually closed. May I ask how long your previous relationship lasted and was it romantic? Because secret romantic love (even semi-secret) is very, very difficult to contain - for the reasons already stated in this thread and more. To my eye, nobody has been rude to you or has told you that you're wrong, but we have been pointing out the very real pitfalls of the situation you're envisioning. Not many people want to be a secret lover, nor do many people want to have a secret lover, for years on end. Both the hidden one and the one(s) who needs the secrecy start to feel the pain of containment after awhile. In my experience, it's exciting and even fruitful for months, but if partners develop deep love for one another, something's gotta give as the relationship expands and becomes a real world thing.

Much more doable is a friends kind of thing, where the partners are free to come and go, let blocks of time go by without intense communication and romance is not part of the relationship. Not because it's prohibited, but because it's just not there. I experience and I know a number of relationships like this and they can be quite sustainable and fortifying for one's life. But where there is regular sex, cuddling, dating and vacationing together, there will be romance from at least one person in the situation. If it's not mutual, you've got a problem. If it's mutual, you've got LOVE. And deep, romantic love has a way making itself seen or else it just cannot survive.
 
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With so many couples seeking a another woman, and - apparently - so few having success, there is something that puzzles me.

Why not look for another couple who are looking for a woman? Most of these situations seem to involve a straight men and a bisexual women. Is there a problem having another man in the equation, who would (probably) be part of this extended relationship? This seems like an obvious and workable arrangement, so why isn't it more common? (Or is it, but I'm not seeing it mentioned much?)
 
I think a lot of couples are very specifically wanting their 'third' to not have a pre-existing partner. I don't know if it's because of a one penis policy thing, or because there is an insecurity there about every relationship being 'equal' (and how could it be equal if she's got a husband too…wait…something seems off there….), or if it's because the intention is to make the arrangement as close to monogamy as possible and so everything has to be polyfidelitous (and having as few people involved as possible), but you're right: there are a lot of people looking for this relationship shape, and this is a practical solution. Of course, the more people you add to the mix, the more relationships you actually have to juggle, and quads have the potential to suffer this more than triads even. Plus add in the fact that you might be dealing with two 'original couples' which might have their own different views on couple privilege, and I guess you are facing something nearly as hot-mess-y as a unicorn triad.
 
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