New to this, dealing with jealousy.

A

Astirarose

New member
I realize there are plenty of books and articles on this, but I dont think its a substitute for RL feedback.

With that said, a little background;
Husband and I about 4 years ago decided to "open" our relationship up. At the time we had no idea what this meant, Not even sure if we had heard of Polyamory at the time, and it was more based on fantasies (sex). We had no real structure or rules to what we were doing, no research, just jumped in.

We had a close mutual male friend, whom I very quickly fell for. We had our fun night of sex, and continued as normal for a couple of weeks after until our friend found a GF. Thats when things really went south, he told her about what we had done and she restricted him from speaking or contacting me at all (But not my husband). Keep in mind I had grown very close to him as a friend before the Sex happened. I never fully got over this. There were some things my husband had to deal with in the situation as well.

So we choose to revert back to Monogamy.

4 years later Polyamory came up again, we both know we are not truly monogamous, we can pretend to be but the way we both work, its not for us, to an extent anyhow.

We talked this time, a lot, and researched a lot, and decided to try again. We decided the safest avenue was online to start. We have friends in a gaming community with chat apps that worked nicely for staying in contact and talking.

He found someone very quickly, who happened to be a friend he and I both had through the game, and have talked to for close to a year now. I trust her implicitly which helps a lot. She is married, and this is also new for her and her husband.

So the natural course of thinking for my husband and (Im not even sure how to refer to her at this point yet) was that the 4 of us would make a wonderful couple(s).

We all 4 have spent a lot of time interacting online and through video chats, and have a visit planned.

Her husband is attractive, and sweet, Im fairly certain he is very attracted to me. BUT, My husband and "gf" are way ahead of us on connection, and this being our first time into this on both sides, He(Friends husband) and I are dealing with a lot of the workthroughs of the NRE our partners are experiencing with each other.

So we have not really connected on a deeper level. We all enjoy each others company very much on a friendship level, and our partners enjoy each other on a deeper level.

I think Im being resistant, not only because of the hurt I experienced 4 years ago, but also the jealousy That comes up with Husband and "gf".

They easily chat for 12 hours in a day. My husband and I have talked a Lot, and worked through a lot of things.

Im feeling left out I realized. We keep everything transparent and available to each other to read if we feel the need. (all 4 of us, to our partners).

But I have felt like "gf" husband and I are frequently pushed together so that our partners can have time alone. We now play a game together to interact, with the hope our partners would also join in, but it seems they have no intentions to.

And they spend that time dirty talking, flirting, and conversations FILLED with sexual jokes.

My husband hasn't flirted with me in quite a while, and I'm seeing the kinds of things I saw when we were first together, the way he wooed me, is how he is wooing her.

When we did start interacting as a foursome (some fun skype sessions), the sex was amazing, my husbands attentiveness to me was amazing. The other couple experienced the same.

Over the last couple of weeks though, My husband has grown less attentive to me, and for the first time in a while, we have gone 5 days without sex. He hasn't even approached me, even though he is still having sexy chats.

Im feeling very left out, and I think, I'm sure some of it is my fault. I feel like some of the jealousy I experience (I have worked a lot of it though with husbands help), but when I'm feeling jealous towards husband and Gf interactions, I think I definitely withdraw from trying to have interactions on a deeper level with any of the men I have met.

Some things have gotten a lot easier, we have been doing this maybe 3 months now, but just when I think I'm over something, BAM right at me again..

I feel like a lot of what Husband and "gf" are experiencing is normal, but I'm having a hard time dealing with it. Some days I'm not bothered at all, others I'm just incredibly jealous about it.

This gets easier right? I cant imagine trying to go full Mono again. My husband asks why all the time, I dont just stop if its so hard for me, but I tell him I feel like this is helping me also work through some issues, that existed even when we were Mono. I feel like this can help he and I both grow as people, have deeper understandings and empathy.
 
Hi Astirarose,

Hopefully things will get easier as time goes on, in the meantime let your husband know of the things that you need, it is okay for him to know about that. Maybe you need him to spend more quality time with you. Maybe you need him to talk sexy to you. It is okay to want and need these things. Let him know about it.

You'll probably be interested in more interactions between you and your friend's husband, after you and your own husband do some repair work on your relationship together. I hope Polyamory.com will help you with some of these repairs.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
The jealousy or envy get easier to manage, yes. They might not ever actually go away, but you learn ways to cope with them and communicate about them.

Have you told your husband you feel like he's not giving you attention right now? Sometimes in the throes of NRE, people are completely oblivious to how they're acting, and they just need a verbal smack upside the head to recognize it and change their behavior.

As for your husband and his girlfriend trying to "pair the spares," so to speak, I can understand why that might be an uncomfortable thing for you and the girlfriend's husband. There's no reason whatsoever why you should feel like you and he have to get together just because your spouses are. If you only want to be friends, just be friends. If you don't even want to be that, don't.
 
I think KC43 makes a good point about your husband being in throes on NRE - and that communication may well help.

My wife poly-bombed me about 2 months ago - and I agreed to accept the new lifestyle rather than disrupt the home and family that our young daughter loves so much. The jealousy issue does get better as time goes along - especially if you make an honest effort - being active in this forum has helped me adjust.

My wife, Becky, has generally done a pretty good job of of managing two men at once (maybe easier because the bf is somewhat long distance and they can only meet once or twice a month) - without making me feel neglected (she seems to have an innate understanding of that even though she had not really done any reading about it). However, on occasion the NRE grabs hold and I can easily tell where her attention is focused - at which point I lovingly point out that the NRE has her in its grasp and that I am feeling neglected. Then we laugh about it and she will make the effort to snap out of it - until it happens again. It's just the nature of NRE.

I learned at the very start about the 3 rules of Poly - communicate, communicate, communicate. Becky and I both come by this pretty naturally - and it has saved us from a lot of grief - not all of it, but kept it to a manageable level. :)

Best,

Al
 
We are very good about communicating, in fact since we went on this path we have become more and more aware of how each other is feeling, and able to feel much more empathy towards each other. Our conversations often revolve around Poly and different things that do come up.

With that said, he gets frustrated sometimes because it seems I bring up too much, or its kind of a repeat, something he and I both thought we worked through.

But he is very open to communication, it has been one of the better benefits of doing this.

But, he tends to back off a little when I ask him too (If I ask him to slow down the texting a bit) for a day or so, and then he is right back in to full throttle within a couple of days (IE the bringing up issues we thought were resolved).

I know on my end I need to learn to manage some of this. I do for the most part, but then something unexpectedly gets me going again.

I feel frustrated at feeling anything over something that I thought I had worked out in my head already.

And asking for his attention right now, he tries, but I can tell he is not into it right now. I can tell he is trying to make me happy, but its not natural, feels forced.
 
I am sorry you struggle.

It's ok for things to feel weird. The "old normal" is gone. The "new normal" isn't quite here yet. So the transition time in the middle is just going to feel weird.

With that said, he gets frustrated sometimes because it seems I bring up too much, or its kind of a repeat, something he and I both thought we worked through.
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Are you kvetching IN? He's in the system too. You could kvetch OUT of the system to be people who are not IN this poly network.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/07/opinion/la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407

If you have been a couple used to always turning to the other to help, you may not have built enough outside support. You could vent here and/or develop poly friendly supports in real life.

But, he tends to back off a little when I ask him too (If I ask him to slow down the texting a bit) for a day or so, and then he is right back in to full throttle within a couple of days (IE the bringing up issues we thought were resolved).
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Check what you are asking.

If he's being intrusive about the texting, like eating dinner with you while texting? Be more specific in your requests.

"Stop texting too much" is not specific at all.

"Slow down the texting for a day or so" is specific, but may not address the actual need if the problem is not the texting, but the lack of being PRESENT with you. At the end of two days he's met the request, but the need is still not met.

It's like wanting more time with someone and feeling envious because they keep going bowling with Bob. And you tell them to stop bowling with Bob. And they do. But then they go golfing with Gary. They met your request. But not the underlying NEED. You could ask directly for what you need.

Something like this IS specific because it tells what to do AND what not to do. It also addresses the need for him to be PRESENT when he's with you.

"Please stop texting when it is our time together. Like during dinner, or when we are having a couple date. When I see you not being FULLY PRESENT with me on our time, I feel disrespected. Please stop doing this. When it is our shared time together, I would like to connect with both of us fully present.

In return, I can respect that you also need time to connect with your other partner. I can respect that you need to give her your full attention at those times. I am willing to respect your privacy for that. What times have you set for that? So I can plan to be busy elsewhere and not disturb you?"

Talk it out and sort this. Maybe read poly hell together and talk about how to combat those pitfalls.

I know on my end I need to learn to manage some of this. I do for the most part, but then something unexpectedly gets me going again. I feel frustrated at feeling anything over something that I thought I had worked out in my head already.
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That almost sounds like perfectionism. You can't be a work in progress? Count the spaces in between? Like this... and I quote just to visually block it off...

I blew up about this thing on x date. Then I got upset again about it a week later. Then I blew up 2 weeks later... look... I improved! I lasted longer! What behavior changed? Could I do more of that and see if I can make it to 3 weeks before the next upset? Develop and strengthen my coping skills by exercising them?
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Why beat up on yourself for not being "perfect" and not "being done with this already?" It's like you want it to be "instant." When some things simply take time.

You have enough load to adjust to without adding unrealistic expectations of yourself on top of it. I get that being in transition feels weird and maybe a bit uncomfortable. And you might want it to be DONE and over with so you don't have to feel uncomfortable any more.

But it is the price of admission to changing over to a new model. "Old normal" is gone. "New normal" isn't here yet.

If something is SUPER uncomfortable, speak up about it and ask for changes. But if it is merely "comfortably uncomfortable" could you chalk it up to being in transition and just weather it out?

You cannot remodel a house and expect instant results. You will have a period of crazy boxes, dust, cramped quarters, construction noises, routines disturbed, etc.

Well, you have decided to overhaul your relationship model. Could be realistic about being in transition. There will be changes in routines, noise, feeling a little cramped, etc.

Maybe a change in perspective/attitude will help you weather the transition time out a bit better?

Galagirl
 
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One thought. Even if you find her husband attractive, you ARE being forced together.

While that might be okay for swinging, it's probably not a good basis for a relationship -- "I love her so you'd better fall in love with him" will eventually lead to resentment from one of you, maybe both.

Conversely, how would it go if you & him begin slowly, but actually do form the beginnings of a deep bond... & your husband announces that his dyad has broken up & he expects you to go back to being monogamous? (I've seen that exact scenario happen. It wasn't pretty.)
 
Gala, you make some great points and I appreciate that. I think my urgency to get past it, is because of his frustrations and me not being past it yet. I "ruining" the fun for him. No this isn't anything he has specifically said, but he has said that sometimes he wants to just back out because it is not as much fun as I guess he might have expected.

Im actually ok with going through things a few times before it feels really settled for me, I just sense the urgency on his part. It could be that I bring up too much, and perhaps should try to weather some things on my own. Currently looking for friends in the area (Neither of us have friends, have moved too much), so yes, we have been each others entertainment, shoulder, ect for a very long time.

He and I were in a very good spot when we approached doing this with each other, stronger than we had been in our 8 years together. And at the beginning, we felt even closer than we had ever been.

Raven, yes it feels we are being forced together, which is Why I probably resisted it for quite a while. He is actually a really nice and handsome guy, but even his wife will coach him to flirt with me(he evidentally is not good at the flirting) and I can tell. When we are left alone to just talk (which generally doesn't involve flirting, we enjoy each others company. But its very much at a friend level.

I got the book More than Two, and I plan on reading it. The website helped me on a couple points (At least temporarily).
 
You said you and your h had "researched a lot." But it sounds like he's ignored all the basics of what he's read and discussed with you.

As an outsider looking in, and only hearing your POV, it sounds like he's being a terrible hinge in the V of his 2 partners. I even see red flags of sex addiction, which is defined by the willingness to let your drive for sex interfere seriously with other aspects of your life such as job and family and spousal commitments. How is it possible for him to text gf 12 hours a day without losing focus on his wife and his job? If he has a job!

As an aside, I'd say your fourway sexual Skype session went so well because your h was showing off his sexual skills for his gf.

Nothing more to add since GalaGirl covered a lot of the issues.
 
Magdlyn,

Tbf, I didnt get into a lot of detail because my post was so long. He has made strides in how he connects with me, when this all began. He has not done nearly the same amount of research and reading I have, but he has done some. We are meeting up with a group this weekend which is discussing Poly, (Discussion group) and it was him who initiated wanting to go.

Yeah he is making some mistakes, so Am I, but he does want to learn and correct them.

This is new to both of us, I think we are both bound to make mistakes, and perhaps I havent been clear enough with him on what I need right now.

The Poly Hell was a good read, and it relates quite well to what Im feeling, and also helps me validate how Im feeling (That some of it is normal).

It also helps me validate some of what he is feeling right now as well. I sent him a link hoping he will read it, and perhaps we can discuss later.

He has a job, but its a job that allows a lot of free time. Basically watching screens all day. He calls himself Homer Simpson.. So that kind of a job.

I thank all your input. I think He and I will sit down tonight and really be more specific on what we need from each other.

Thanks again for that article, it helps.
 
Glad to hear the poly hell article helped validate some things for you. Maybe he will get around to reading it also.

I think my urgency to get past it, is because of his frustrations and me not being past it yet. I "ruining" the fun for him. No this isn't anything he has specifically said, but he has said that sometimes he wants to just back out because it is not as much fun as I guess he might have expected.
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It's ok to express that. Just to get it off his chest. But it doesn't have to mean more than that. If at this time you are not able to HEAR it because you take things personally right now, you could ask him to find other people to express it to. Again... comfort in, kvetch OUT.

It's pitfall 1. Not having a realistic idea of the WORK it takes to have concurrent relationships, a lack of education. Now that he's realizing... sometimes frustrated with the amount of work and needing to air out.... and he initiated going to this poly discussion group. That's great! He is owning his stuff.

But don't be making his stuff be about YOU or make his stuff automatically be YOUR stuff.

As you move forward in transition...

  • Some of the stuff? That's your job, your stuff to do.
  • Some of the stuff? That's his job, his stuff to do.
  • Some of the stuff? That's "our job" -- shared responsibilities that you BOTH do. Figure out which those are.

Some long standing couples have lost sight of the distinctions and "everything" is always "our" jobs. Maybe from enmeshment, codependency, or simply sloppy manners.

Im actually ok with going through things a few times before it feels really settled for me, I just sense the urgency on his part.
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If you are ok going through things a few times before it feels settled? Be ok then.

If you sense urgency or anxiety his part? What's wrong with sensing urgency/anxiety on his part and not doing anything about it? Be ok sensing and doing nothing. And if you do anything about it, ASK first. Not just leap in without asking.

If it were a slow motion movie about food instead.

  • He feels anxious/a sense of urgency about lunch. He's hungry.
  • You worry watching him hungry.
  • You leap in to fix make him a sandwich so YOU can stop worrying. This is indirect solution.

He has not asked you to fix him a sandwich. Maybe he wanted soup. Maybe he's on a diet. Maybe he's planning to pig out at dinner, so he wants to keep lunch light.

You haven't checked in first. You have overstepped your bounds and run right over him in your rush to fix YOUR anxiety worries.

Ways to solve your worry more directly:

You could calm your worry down by asking for more data and offering to help.

Not just leap in and start doing stuff, but ASK first if this is even wanted. That shows respect for the person. "You seem hungry. Is that something you want help with? I could make you a sandwich."

If he says ok, you make him a sandwich.
If he says no, you don't make him a sandwich.

But your anxiety about it is alleviated without you running right over him. You have reassured yourself by checking in to get more information first.​

You could calm your worry down and NOT offer to help at this time.

You could reassure your own self. "So I see he's uncomfortable because he's hungry. Well, he knows where the kitchen is, there's plenty of food. He isn't going to die. He also has a mouth -- if he wants my help he could ask me."

You have reassured yourself by reminding yourself that food is handy, and he can cope. He's not helpless.

Like with the poly discussion group thing -- he needed more help, he found a place to get some. He can cope.

​

we have been each others entertainment, shoulder, ect for a very long time.
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Something that happens to long standing couples sometimes is a lessening or lack of personal boundaries. Books, movies, culture all sometimes contribute to the idea that "when you become a couple, you become as One." They become "all couple" and forget that ACTUALLY... they are simultaneously "a couple" AND "two separate individuals."

They also get so focused on "solving everything together like a couple" that they overlook using best manners.

They gloss over asking first, they just leap in and do stuff, they automatically forgive the toe stepping because it was good intentions, etc. So this becomes "background" noise. They may not even be aware that they do this constant "they step on my toes/I automatically forgive them" dance.

Not to put too fine a point on it -- they get sloppy with their manners. The rights of the individuals get pushed aside because they are busy being couple-y.

Then new people arrive, and suddenly brings these kinds of bad habits into awareness.

But I have felt like "gf" husband and I are frequently pushed together so that our partners can have time alone. We now play a game together to interact, with the hope our partners would also join in, but it seems they have no intentions to.
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Don't hope/assume. Ask directly.

When you invite the quad to a game night, ask if they are able to be present and actually play the game. If they prefer to be on their own on a separate date and not up for a quad game night -- ask them to just SAY so. Won't hurt your feelings, but please only come to game night if you are actually going to game.

Maybe your husband feels "guilty" or something if you just chill at home when they are on a date. Hence the pushing you together faster than the actual connection wants to go so he can alleviate his anxiety. "I'm out having fun with my GF, she's out having fun with her BF. It's fair. I can relax."

In that case he is trying to manage his anxieties indirectly rather than directly.

You could tell him to stop pushing, let your other relationship grow at its own pace without him as a backseat driver. It is NOT his job to manage that relationship. Every large polyship is made up of all the "mini relationships" inside it. Well, in the (you + your potential BF) mini relationship, it is (you and your potential BF) in it. Your husband is not in it. It might turn out you like him for a friend but NOT for a BF. Whose job is that to determine? YOURS.

You could tell your husband to relax and enjoy his date. That is (Husband + GF). Be PRESENT with his other partner. That IS his job, and he's one of the drivers on that one. Instead of worrying about how you are doing with your jobs he could work on his and be present with he partner he is with.

  • Not leaving for a date with her/on a date with her -- with his brain over here with you.
  • Or be on a date with you-- with his brain over there with her.

It takes time to learn hinge skills, but get on with learning them, dude.

Ask him if he needs reassuring.

"Do you need reassuring?"​

If so, reassure.

"It is ok for you to go out with GF, and have fun. I'm choosing to stay home and have fun reading a book. That is what I want to be doing today. It is fair -- we both get to pick what we each want for fun today. They don't have to be the exact same fun thing like you go on a date and I go on a date."​

But in general... exercise your personal boundaries. It may feel weird to do with your husband if over the years you have accidentally developed "sloppy couple manners" but again... remodeling.

So it sometimes feels weird. "Old normal" is gone, and "new normal" is not here yet. It is NORMAL for it to feel weird.

Be ok being in transition and get on with the business of CREATING the new normal in healthy ways.

Galagirl
 
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You have a wonderful way of putting things Gala.. I may read and re-read this a few times.

Thank you for the thoughtful input and advice :)
 
Astirarose said:
Gala, you make some great points and I appreciate that. I think my urgency to get past it, is because of his frustrations and me not being past it yet. I "ruining" the fun for him. No this isn't anything he has specifically said, but he has said that sometimes he wants to just back out because it is not as much fun as I guess he might have expected.
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Well to start. Relationships aren't just for 'fun'. Relationships are had work with amazing rewards if you put in that work. If he's just trying to have some 'fun' he'll hurt both his partners.

Raven, yes it feels we are being forced together, which is Why I probably resisted it for quite a while. He is actually a really nice and handsome guy, but even his wife will coach him to flirt with me(he evidentally is not good at the flirting) and I can tell. When we are left alone to just talk (which generally doesn't involve flirting, we enjoy each others company. But its very much at a friend level.
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You most DEFINITELY should have a relationship with the other husband that YOU feel comfortable with. You never have to 'be intimate' with someone just because someone else wants it and he might be a bad flirt because he's feeling the friend connection as well. I have lots of guy friends that I just DO NOT feel that vibe with and would not be able to flirt with. YOU need to be comfortable and happy. And don't feel you can't make a connection outside this group of four.


I got the book More than Two, and I plan on reading it. The website helped me on a couple points (At least temporarily).
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The book is AMAZING. I'm reading it with my triad.
 
You don't have to form a connection with the other husband. It would be nice, but isn't necessary. He can also seek someone else, elsewhere. You can seek out your own new love interest in any number of ways and places, from encounters in person at events, to single poly men on OKCupid (or one who will entertain the idea - but a lot will "consider" it without actually embracing it).
 
Astirarose said:
I have felt like "gf" husband and I are frequently pushed together so that our partners can have time alone.
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Who's pushing this? I just want to join the people who warn you about giving in to this expectation. Quads... are complicated. I haven't been in one, but those who have written here seem to be very prone to the imbalance you describe, even years in. From my point of view there's nothing natural about spending time with the other husband.

If they want to have time alone, why don't you give them time alone? A compromise that you will have to work out.
But when they are together ... it is your time. You can use it to date the other husband, but you could use it to date someone else or go out with friends or read a book or whatever makes you happy. I guess that's what I encourage you - accept that now you will have more time free from your husband and make the best out of it.
 
Team Dating

You are having some issues and it is currently a struggle, but I'd like to tell you that you are doing a fine job.

Seeking authenticity in your behavior, looking out for your feelings, and being mindful about how your actions impact others will always be a healthy foundation. You might not be a pro at it currently, but it sounds like that is at least where you are hoping to go.

Tinwen said:
But when they are together ... it is your time. You can use it to date the other husband, but you could use it to date someone else or go out with friends or read a book or whatever makes you happy.
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Team dating is really great at breeding this kind of resentment. In my opinion, listen to Tinwen, and shake off the expectation of team dating entirely. The fact that your husbands new love is married can only impact your time if you allow it to. You aren't her husbands babysitter while she is out with your husband.

The fact that you and your husband are a couple doesn't have to influence how you organize your time when you are doing other things. This is only an issue if you allow it to be.
 
Oh I had missed several of these replies, didnt realize the thread continued. I appreciate all the advice.

I will say, after I spoke with both my Husband and His GF(who is also a friend of mine) things calmed down. Her husband and I did continue to play games together and have discovered we both enjoy each other's company very much (without feeling pressure). Perhaps a small spark? Maybe. But it's been a relief that I dont feel pressure anymore to connect. :)
 
Glad things have eased up a little.
 
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