New to this lifestyle

[Cdb931]

So I have been monogamous for my entire life. I have been in a monogamous marriage for several years now as well. However a few months ago my wife said she fern okke our relationship was lacking and she wanted to try a little more.
She wanted to try polyamory.

I am quite busy with work, our kids, and my life in general. I told her we could do it as long as if I felt uncomfortable we could pull the plug. I had already accepted that I wouldn’t hold anything against her if she had sexual relationships with other people as I would be allowing it.

Fast forward two months and she’s already dating someone else. I haven’t had much time to do so myself since I am so busy with work. I started having jealousy issues since I am working overtime and meanwhile she’s forming sexual relaudonshols with other people. I told her I wanted to stop as I couldn’t deal with it at the moment.

That’s when things exploded. She said no. She refuses to stop, she made a list of everything she had to do to leave me(like finding a new place to rent etc). I told her she has to stop talking to her BFs so I can settle down and leave some more about this lifestyle as I cannot dedicate the same amount of time as she can.
She refused. I told her if she sent one more message to her BFs I would leave. She nearly did but decided not to when I had my shoes on. However she told me it was inevitable, and that she absolutely needs to be having sex with multiple partners in order to be happy.

So currently we’ve been fighting daily. We’re enrolled in counseling (poly counseling), were going to a summit, we joined a poly group in our city, and I even went as far as to message her BF and I am meeting him today.

But it’s not enough. She wants to be able to talk to them immediately and thinks I am setting unfair rules and boundaries. I have told her she broke the only boundary I set (being able to quit if it became too much) and only after a couple of months. She also says I went into this too blindly, which I agree, however if I did have the ability to just quit like I wanted I would be fine. I’m not really mad that she says had sexual relations with others, just that she refuses to stop and she has shown she will not respect my boundaries if it is not in her interest. (Although my boundary was extreme it was one we both agreed to).

Anyway, it might be easier for me to just take the kids split custody, move out, and find a monogamous woman. I had O complaints about our relationship and had 0 reasons to leave. I am perfectly content with monogamy. I am also so incredibly busy that I probably don’t have time for multiple sexual relationships as I barely see my regular friends to begin with. I am also not fond of the idea of me working over time while she works part time, then goes out and has sex with other men. That situation sounds wrong and isn’t ideal to begin with.

So I am on here asking if anyone has experience in this situation. She wants deadlines and wants dates of when I will be okay with her dating other guys again (mainly the one she met three weeks ago that she says she may be in love with already). I have been refusing to set deadlines and said rather I will go to therapy, counseling, post on forums, meet with couples, meet her BF, and do everything I can to ease myself into this lifestyle I never chose.
But that’s causing issues. She is saying if I do not set fair immidate deadlines she will leave me. We are both at our breaking points. I feel like if I am not worth a 3 week internet BF then forget it as I can likely find someone else that will care enough to help me through this (even though I wouldn’t seek polyamory again, I feel like if someone truly cared they would be willing to wait).

Very confusing situation. It will not be easy to leave her and it will not be easy working overtime and knowing she’s out there with other guys. We married as a monogamous couple and I have never been unfaithful. She has never cheated either, but has made it clear that having multiple partners is a necessity.

I told her I wanted her to take a complete two month break (no texting or anything) as I go to counseling, therapy, meet her boyfriend and attend these poly workshops. However she has said she will not wait that long. We have been together for 9 years but apparently she’s miserable unless she can be with other guys and thinks I am asking too much of her and that it is unfair.

Without continuing to vent our recent fights, what do you think will help? I think I need to learn more about poly and she needs to slow down.

Let me know what you guys think. And thank you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

I think your wife is right. You DID go in blindly. But so did SHE.

Without continuing to vent our recent fights, what do you think will help? I think I need to learn more about poly and she needs to slow down.

I think you are right. HOW would you like slowing down to look like? What does she think slowing down could look like? What is "a good enough slow" to each? Do you both agree on the goal at the end -- to have weathered out transitioning to Open Marriage still together in a healthy loving way?

I told her I wanted her to take a complete two month break (no texting or anything) as I go to counseling, therapy, meet her boyfriend and attend these poly workshops.

What does the break and not talking solve? Can it be solved another way so she can talk to her BF and you get the space you need?

Why does it come framed like "I am the boss of you. I am telling you I want you to stop seeing your BF for two months while I deal with the prep stuff I neglected to do because I chose to jump in blind."

Can you see how unfair that sounds? It might be triggering and then you cannot have productive conversation with her. Why does lack of planning on your part have to come at her expense? "Slow" can be slow. It doesn't have to be ZERO.

I get where you are coming from but think about how you SOUND when you talk. I think that's escalating things. I cannot imagine both of you want to be fighting daily.

How she talks is probably triggering you too. Acting like this BF is the The Whole World when really? The reality is that not everyone a person dates is gonna wind up being a long haul runner. All this hullabaloo over a BF of 3 weeks that might turn out to be a dud? C'mon. Even in mono dating -- some dates end up being duds. Not a runner.

I think both could become better grounded here. Take a deep breath and start over. Maybe these help start better conversations with the counselor present?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/14_steps_to_opening_a_relationship.pdf

Doing that? Then you can see it's not all wackadoo all over the place. And she can see it IS moving forward bit by bit.

I’m not really mad that she says had sexual relations with others, just that she refuses to stop and she has shown she will not respect my boundaries if it is not in her interest. (Although my boundary was extreme it was one we both agreed to).

You seem to recognize it was an extreme agreement and it may not have been rational or reasonable. So maybe it is ok to let it go and neither one has to agree to it any more. That you are NOT the boss who says when BOTH have to stop. Instead, each one could could decide when each one stops. That is fair. You own your stopping-ness. She owns her stopping-ness.

Do you believe you get to make unilateral decisions for the couple? If she agreed to that, I think SHE also went in blind.

I have told her she broke the only boundary I set (being able to quit if it became too much) and only after a couple of months.

You set a personal boundary for YOU to obey. Not for others to obey.

• If you meant "I have a personal boundary. If this gets to be too much for me (the line in the sand), I am going to quit. (the consequence YOU can do.)"

If that is what you meant? Nothing is stopping you from bowing out of this at this time. You CAN quit. Your consent belongs to you. You seem to want to stay with wife but are super frustrated that you aren't being heard. Is that true?

Have you tried checking your language? Become willing to hear her FIRST?

So she can calm down and be able to open her ears and hear YOU?

Take a step back and look at that agreement. If you meant "I will consent to participate in a poly thing but only if I get to say when we both quit" it is a problem. That is not seting a personal boundary for yourself. That is setting you OVER her.... like you being the boss of her.

I don't think you would like it if someone was trying to be the boss of you, right? That might be part of why she is bristling and then nothing else can go in her ears because she cannot hear you over the volume of her inner upset.

I am quite busy with work, our kids, and my life in general. I told her we could do it as long as if I felt uncomfortable we could pull the plug. I had already accepted that I wouldn’t hold anything against her if she had sexual relationships with other people as I would be allowing it.

If the problem is not her having another lover because you consent to Open marriage? I wonder what you ARE holding against her? What are the jealousy issues?

• Is it HOW she talks to the BF? Like she's always on the phone, even during dinner with you and kids? She's creating poly hell?

• Something else? That you work overtime and she works PT so has rest/relaxation/social opportunities you do not?

• Is it her wanting you to be the boss (You set all these deadlines now or I'm leaving!) while NOT wanting to follow when you DO lead (I don't want to Close when you say Close!)

If you can list the BEHAVIOR that bugs you, it leads to possible solutions.

I had O complaints about our relationship and had 0 reasons to leave. I am perfectly content with monogamy. I am also so incredibly busy that I probably don’t have time for multiple sexual relationships as I barely see my regular friends to begin with. I am also not fond of the idea of me working over time while she works part time, then goes out and has sex with other men. That situation sounds wrong and isn’t ideal to begin with.

Then why did you agree to it blindly? That is you not doing your own self care. Jumping into things without clearance or room for it to happen in. Not a good thing.

I'm not trying to point the finger here. I don't think either of you needs to detail who did what and what was wrong about it. It is faster to just both agree this has not been the best Opening ever. And come to it as partners in problem solving rather than opposing forces attacking each other. There has to be some safe space for mistakes and learning from them. Nobody is BORN a perfect hinge person. (The shared Sweetie.) Nobody is BORN a perfect end point person. (The end point people in a "V" situation.)

You could tell wife something like...

"Alright. It is not going well. I think it is fair to say we Opened up wonky and underprepared. For now, I think it's enough that we both can agree that both of us had a share in this creating this situation. Could you agree to that?

I think we need to pause to correct some of that before it tears us apart. Are you willing to work together to "reset" and get off on a better foot with this Opening Up thing? Could you agree to that? ”​

Then you identify some sore spots. Maybe propose some ideas to fix them on paper. She does the same. Just listing the sore spots, and some IDEAS, not deep discussion about them. Accept some could be ok and some not so much. This is just initial brainstorming. Then you take it all to the counselor to vet and put in order. This is not making 1 plan to solve 1 thing. This is SEVERAL plans to solve SEVERAL things. You need a STRATEGY or a collection of plans. Not 1 plan alone.

Calm all this down. Could you be willing to say...

• I am willing for you to talk to EXISTING bf. Could you to agree to no dating NEW or MORE people until I have a chance to read and catch up?

• Could you agree to be PRESENT when it is (you+me) time or (family time) and not attached to phone? In return I can respect (you+bf) time and give you privacy when you go out/talk on the phone/etc with BF.

• Could you be willing to talk about moving toward FT work so I can stop doing overtime? I am burning out.

It sounds like some of the envy is that she has more time open than you. You might not even want to date... but you sound like you miss your friends. Could also talk to you about letting some things GO so there's less bills. Talk about how dates will be paid for. Over here all is joint, but there is house (regular bills that are same each time like mortgage), flex (stuff like grocery that changes each time), and then his allowance and mine. I don't say boo how he spends his fun money and he doesn't say boo about how I spend mine. And the house things are still taken care of responsibly.

Then there's childcare to map out. They can't be ignored OR all saddled on you or all saddled on her.

See what I mean about it not being just 1 thing? It's several. Maybe even more than what I've listed above

(cont)

 

[KC43]

(NOTE: I notice that GalaGirl posted while I was typing this. She and I might say some of the same things. She might say some different things. Take everything into account, because having multiple perspectives is good.)

Point of clarification: "We'll stop if I say I'm uncomfortable" isn't a boundary. It's a rule. Boundaries are something you set for *yourself*, for example "If I get too uncomfortable with this, I will have to leave our marriage." Rules are attempts to control *someone else*, which is what "If I get too uncomfortable with this, you have to stop seeing other people" is.

Rules generally aren't fair. I kind of have to agree with your wife on that point. You aren't controlling your own behavior; you're trying to control hers. Not only hers, but that of the men she's seeing as well. That isn't fair to any of them.

But I also agree with you that you need more time to adjust to the idea, and that it might be kinder of your wife to take a break from seeing other people for a set amount of time while you work through your stuff. On the flip side of that, I agree with her that it is unfair for you to expect her--and her other partners--to take an *indefinite* hiatus. If you want her to step back, in my opinion she is right to ask you for how long. You are not only affecting her life, but the lives of at least one other person.

I'm glad you've sought counseling. But it seems to me the problem isn't your wife. The problem is your jealousy and your inability to deal with the situation. Your wife and her other partners are becoming collateral damage in your war with yourself. And you are expecting your wife to be someone she isn't--someone she has tried to be *for you* for nine years, and is now unwilling to return to being now that she's had a chance to recognize who she truly is. Which is also unfair, just as it's unfair for her to expect you to be someone you aren't. You aren't poly, or so it seems; she isn't monogamous. If you and she aren't able to come to some agreement, splitting up might be the best thing for you and for your children; trust me, kids do a lot better with a "broken home" than watching their parents be miserable and fight with each other all the time.

 

[GalaGirl]

(cont from post #2)

She wants deadlines and wants dates of when I will be okay with her dating other guys again (mainly the one she met three weeks ago that she says she may be in love with already). I have been refusing to set deadlines and said rather I will go to therapy, counseling, post on forums, meet with couples, meet her BF, and do everything I can to ease myself into this lifestyle I never chose.

You DID choose. You chose to Open the marriage going in blind.

To me it sounds like you want it to slow down some, and she wants to know that "slow" won't be a "stop in disguise." You could say that to her. "Hon, I want to slow down. Are you afraid slow means "stop" in disguise?"

I think if you are both seeing a poly counselor, you could ask the counselor to help set those deadlines.

Could reading these with counselor help? And coloring what is red (no way), yellow (no for now, yes over time) and (green is ok for now)? And then review every 3-6 months to see what can "turn green now" so it is slower for you and still progressing for her?

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

You say you don't have a problem sharing her attention or her having lovers. It sounds more like resentful you do lots of work and she works PT so has more free time than you.

She is saying if I do not set fair immidate deadlines she will leave me.

So set some. Could say

" I am tired of fighting daily. You need to be able to talk to your BF during the transition. I need the transition to go slower and more organized. You cannot expect ME to make the long term plan all by myself because I am uneducated/undereducated about these things.

I think we need a temporary truce agreement. I suggest this:

You see and talk to your main BF. That is for you.

In return, you agree to dial down dating others. No more NEW people right now. That is for me. Because I can only change but so fast and there's already too many variables and too many people in this mix. I need time to read and catch up and do counseling.

We are both at the breaking point. We need to REDUCE some of the stress load somewhere.

I would like you to be PRESENT when it is (you + me time) and (family time.) In return, I respect your (you + BF) time so you can be PRESENT there with him talking on the phone or seeing each other. Could you agree to a basic truce plan like that?

If so, we can make an appointment with counselor on X date to talk about making the bigger long term plan that expands on that. A reasonable plan to transition to Open Marriage from an educated place. We both screwed up jumping in blind. I suggest we BOTH work together to create a plan with fair deadlines we can BOTH live with with the help of a professional. The plan will have to solve whatever typical problems come up for couples doing this with check points so it is slow enough for me and fast enough for you."​

That is being SUPER reasonable and patient on your part. And being more realistic about HOW to Open well.

She also cannot complain at you any more because YOU ALONE did not make the plan. She got to have a voice in the plan making, and there is a professional guiding things. So if she doesn't want to do stuff the professional recommends? Any new wonky stuff as a result of her choices is all on her.

We are both at our breaking points. I feel like if I am not worth a 3 week internet BF then forget it as I can likely find someone else that will care enough to help me through this (even though I wouldn’t seek polyamory again, I feel like if someone truly cared they would be willing to wait).

I am going to agree with you. If she won't be reasonable about it? Let it go.

At the same time? Before you let it go? Ask her...

"Where's the fire? Have you been sitting on this for years and not telling me? And now it's feeling like you got a taste and you will pop if it gets taken away again? What's going ON with you on the insides? Are you scared me asking for "slow" is really "stop" in disguise or something?"​

Listen for understanding.

Because if she's been gunnysacking/hiding poly feelings for a long time (years?) there may be hidden issues here. And it was not YOU doing the gunnysacking behavior. So why are YOU getting the flak? Could ask her that.

If she's had years to sit with it (however uncomfortable) and you only have had a few weeks or few months? It is not fair for her to expect you to RUSH through your digestion of it all just because she's impatient from years of gunnysacking that she did to herself.

Hopefully you guys talk with cooler heads and ask the counselor to help to help you "reset, reboot, and re-Open" in a better way than this wonky way of going if you still both want to be together.

Hopefully you both want to be in right relationship with each other. Rather than wanting to "win" the argument or be "right."

• If right relationship looks like having to part ways because one wants poly and the other mono and you are not compatible to be romantic partners any more? Talk to the counselor about a peaceful parting and dissolution of the marriage. Because you still have to coparent.

• If right relationship looks like reassessment, and trying to Re-Open the marriage less wonky? Then figure out HOW to "reboot" and go about it less wonky. Get the education you need and grow the skills you need. Make the strategy.

We’re enrolled in counseling (poly counseling), were going to a summit, we joined a poly group in our city, and I even went as far as to message her BF and I am meeting him today.

I'm pretty impressed you seem willing to put in the work required to get better educated. Would have been better to do it BEFORE Opening, but you are willing to catch things up. Is she willing to put in the work required to catch this up? Or is she doing the "kid in the candy store" pitfall thing?

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

(I haven't read Galagirls posts. I assume she's already written a lot of stuff, including how veto agreements rarely work.)

I am also not fond of the idea of me working over time while she works part time, then goes out and has sex with other men. That situation sounds wrong and isn’t ideal to begin with.

apparently she’s miserable unless she can be with other guys

These stand out to me.
I think you have a long-term imbalance in your relationship, or a value and needs mismatch.

I think you are likely both miserable, or maybe you are basically happy with your full life, but your wife has been very dissatisfied with the relationship (or perhaps her life in general) for a long time, until now, she's basically at the breaking point. Maybe, since you work overtime, she's been suffering from a lack of intimacy and attention for a long time. Maybe she's depressed and bored. I think she doesn't value the relationship any more, because she doesn't believe it can change in a way to make her satisfied.
It's these issues that should be solved before polyamory is even considered to make your relationship strong (again?). Weak relationships don't survive polyamory.

I don't know if "polyamory" is really a necessity for your wife, or if it's her way to transition out. She probably doesn't know either, at this point, she's only freaking out because she's finally discovered something which she believes to be a way out of the emptiness of her life, so she's latching onto it.

Possibly, this could have been addressed with a greater sensitivity to each person's well being and the relationship years ago (and here I include her own sensitivity to her own needs). Maybe finding a better balance would involve you working less (and sacrificing the money, or her working more). Or some other kind of change. In every case, it would have involved acknowledging the unhappiness and making changes.

Here is a video on this from Teal Swan, titled the real reason why relationships fail. I don't know if you're willing to watch it.

I don't know if the relationship can be salvaged at this point. She doesn't seem particularly fond of attempting to do the necessary work together now.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Cdb931,

Would you be willing to compromise with your wife? For example, would you be willing to allow her to message her boyfriend as long as she agreed to not see him in person for awhile until you had some time to get used to things? What are some other areas where you'd be willing to compromise? You need a way to dissolve the standoff between you and your wife. Hopefully the various posts in this thread are of help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

So I have been monogamous for my entire life. I have been in a monogamous marriage for several years now as well. However a few months ago my wife said she fern okke our relationship was lacking and she wanted to try a little more.
She wanted to try polyamory.

I am quite busy with work, our kids, and my life in general. I told her we could do it as long as if I felt uncomfortable we could pull the plug. I had already accepted that I wouldn’t hold anything against her if she had sexual relationships with other people as I would be allowing it.

Fast forward two months and she’s already dating someone else. I haven’t had much time to do so myself since I am so busy with work. I started having jealousy issues since I am working overtime and meanwhile she’s forming sexual relaudonshols with other people. I told her I wanted to stop as I couldn’t deal with it at the moment.

That’s when things exploded. She said no. She refuses to stop, she made a list of everything she had to do to leave me(like finding a new place to rent etc). I told her she has to stop talking to her BFs so I can settle down and leave some more about this lifestyle as I cannot dedicate the same amount of time as she can.

To me it suggests that you and your wife had an agreement. NOT a rule NOT a boundary but an agreement. The agreement was I’m willing to try but if things break bad we agree to pulling the plug on the open marriage. And now you’re excerising that clause in the agreement and she claiming you enter into the agreement blindly...and how is that relevant. Wouldn’t a plug the plug option protect having some blindness ?

I find it amusing that other members are suggesting making new agreements and deals on this and that ....softer language , compromise .....WHY does anyone having any confidence she’ll adhere to them.

IMO if a spouse confronted with the agreement that made turns around and threatens / blackmails her leaving to get her way then there isn’t agareement worth having with her. AND aid agree with her your relationship with her is lacking. Again IMO you’re going to be in for a very hard ride. To me this sounds like poly at the point of a gun. The goal post is always going to move.

 

[vinsanity0]

First off, you don't do poly because something is lacking in your relationship. You have problems in your relationship and poly will only make them worse.

Short version: let her go if she doesn't want to work on your relationship.