New to this, need help!

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Verita

New member
My wife (female, she/her,) of 7 years and I (female, also she/her) recently entered into a polyamorous relationship with another woman. The catalyst for this decision came from my wife, who met this new woman (we will call her Lexi) and fell in love with her. My wife and I both love each other, and rather than this be grounds for divorce, committed to strengthening our relationship while also making room for this new person in our lives. As I got to know Lexi we also realized we love each other as well, and started to build a relationship. Lexi lived out of the country, and my wife wanted to make sure she really felt a physical and emotional connection to her before we fully committed to this long term. So after a lot of discussion we all agreed for her to go and visit with Lexi for a week. I knew this would mean they would have sex, and I had to get to a place where I was ok with this (which I did). This all transpired in February/March, and by mid/end of April, Lexi was living with my wife and I.

Between when Lexi arrived and mid-June, we were learning each other’s rules and boundaries, and where I’m really struggling is the sexual and intimate aspect of our relationship. When she arrived, we all had sex together, and while Lexi and my wife had several moments of intimacy with just each other, I was not afforded the same opportunities, and was only individually intimate with Lexi twice. My wife admitted she wasn’t as sexually attracted to me as she once was, and she wasn’t fully OK with me being intimate with Lexi without her being present (unless it was out of sight out of mind, meaning if she wasn’t home for a length of time and we were intimate, that was OK.) So between my wife not feeling as sexually attracted to me, and not being comfortable with me being intimate with Lexi alone, I felt myself in a really difficult and sexually frustrated spot. It felt like my wife was the gatekeeper for me to have any kind of sex or intimacy. I urged my wife (and Lexi) to figure out what it was they needed to feel that connection again, and we could work on it together.

In the middle of June, the two of them traveled out of the country for a month (for Lexi’s visa to allow her to stay in the country) and I agreed to stay here to take care of the house and our pets while they were gone. They recently just came back, and I find that we are essentially starting over with where we were from a sexual standpoint, except now things have changed slightly for my wife. She isn’t sure she feels comfortable with us having sex as a group anymore, and she is still struggling with her sexual attraction to me. Meanwhile I don’t feel any sexual desire from Lexi towards me, it all feels very focused towards my wife. She doesn’t reach for me to hold my hand or be affectionate or kiss me, I’m the one that has to initiate it. During a conversation the other evening, I told them both that we need to figure this out, because I refuse to be in a sexless relationship with either of them. I don’t deserve that and have done a lot of legwork being ok with everything up to this point, and this was a hard line I wasn’t willing to budge on. I even acknowledged out loud, for the first time, that if this wasn’t something that could be resolved (and my wife explicitly said she didn’t want me seeking to have my sexual needs filled by someone else) that the relationship between the three of us would be done and I would move on.

I recognize that I have to give them time to figure everything out, and I need to also be vocal about what I need, but how long is too long to keep putting myself through this? What else can I do?

Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thanks!
 
Hello, Verita, and welcome.

The pain you describe is palpable. It's almost as if you (on the one hand) and your wife and Lexi (on the other hand) are living in parallel universes. In one sense, your situation has everything to do with polyamory; but in another sense, it seems not to be very much related to polyamory, except that your pain is doubled. It seems that you have been giving -- a lot! -- and not really receiving much in return from either Lexi or your wife. You told your wife that you were okay with a romantic and sexual visit to be with Lexi in February/March. You have urged your wife and Lexi to figure things out things for themselves, so that the three of you could figure things out together. You have stayed behind as caretaker for your house -- for a month! -- while Lexi and your wife traveled together out of the country. And yet, for all this, you're receiving no romantic or sexual attention from either Lexi or your wife. I think that Lexi's lack of initiation even to be affectionate towards you is very telling.

I think you're now doing a fine job in standing up for yourself, vocalizing your needs, and that you need to continue to do so. You wrote that "my wife explicitly said she didn't want me seeking to have my sexual needs filled by someone else." Is that because she wants to control you? Or does she claim (contrary to your perception) that she continues to love you and wants to be sexual with you? What was Lexi's reaction when you talked with her about her attention to your wife and her lack of attention to you?

I'm sending a big virtual hug to you.

Jim(mmm)
 
Jimmmm said:
Hello, Verita, and welcome.

The pain you describe is palpable. It's almost as if you (on the one hand) and your wife and Lexi (on the other hand) are living in parallel universes. In one sense, your situation has everything to do with polyamory; but in another sense, it seems not to be very much related to polyamory, except that your pain is doubled. It seems that you have been giving -- a lot! -- and not really receiving much in return from either Lexi or your wife. You told your wife that you were okay with a romantic and sexual visit to be with Lexi in February/March. You have urged your wife and Lexi to figure things out things for themselves, so that the three of you could figure things out together. You have stayed behind as caretaker for your house -- for a month! -- while Lexi and your wife traveled together out of the country. And yet, for all this, you're receiving no romantic or sexual attention from either Lexi or your wife. I think that Lexi's lack of initiation even to be affectionate towards you is very telling.

I think you're now doing a fine job in standing up for yourself, vocalizing your needs, and that you need to continue to do so. You wrote that "my wife explicitly said she didn't want me seeking to have my sexual needs filled by someone else." Is that because she wants to control you? Or does she claim (contrary to your perception) that she continues to love you and wants to be sexual with you? What was Lexi's reaction when you talked with her about her attention to your wife and her lack of attention to you?

I'm sending a big virtual hug to you.

Jim(mmm)
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Thank you Jim! All of those kind words are really appreciated and hearing them from really helps! Regarding your question about my wife’s reaction, it didn’t feel so much like control, more than she doesn’t want it to come to that, she wants to try and figure it out. She says (quite a lot) that she feels guilty she even struggles with it at all, to which I usually reply that she needs to get to the root of why she’s feeling guilty. Regarding Lexi’s lack of attention towards me vs. my wife, I’m trying to give that more room to breathe, mainly because of time. She and I really haven’t had quality time to cultivate a relationship, and she anchors to my wife a lot more because they met first, she makes Lexi feel safe and secure. They have more of a head start together, and while it’s not a competition, that element of time is something I’m trying to take into consideration.
 
Verita said:
Thank you Jim! All of those kind words are really appreciated and hearing them from really helps! Regarding your question about my wife’s reaction, it didn’t feel so much like control, more than she doesn’t want it to come to that, she wants to try and figure it out. She says (quite a lot) that she feels guilty she even struggles with it at all, to which I usually reply that she needs to get to the root of why she’s feeling guilty. Regarding Lexi’s lack of attention towards me vs. my wife, I’m trying to give that more room to breathe, mainly because of time. She and I really haven’t had quality time to cultivate a relationship, and she anchors to my wife a lot more because they met first, she makes Lexi feel safe and secure. They have more of a head start together, and while it’s not a competition, that element of time is something I’m trying to take into consideration.
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I think you're being really generous towards both your wife and Lexi. From what you've described, you haven't had anything like the leisurely one-on-one time with Lexi, or with your wife, since Lexi came into the picture, while your wife and Lexi have had the initial week-long visit and also the recent month(!) together. Maybe you could ask your wife for such one-on-one relationship-strengthening time? And similarly (but separately) with Lexi? You wrote that "She [Lexi] and I really haven't had quality time to cultivate a relationship." It seems that you would benefit greatly from such quality time!
 
Hello Verita,

How long you will wait, for Lexi and your wife to figure out what they would need in order to have sexual feelings for you again, is really something only you can decide, and is largely based on how long you think you can stand to live like this, and on how long of a wait you think would be fair. A month? A year? Your decision may also depend on whether you can see efforts on their part to fix the situation. If they aren't even trying, then you might want to only give them a week, or even break up with them immediately. Your feelings will play a crucial role in what you decide.

It might be a good idea to inform them of how long you intend to wait, and of how their visible efforts (or the lack of efforts) might effect the length of that interval. I kind of think it is unfair of your wife to forbid you from getting your sexual needs met elsewhere, but I guess that is a somewhat separate issue, and she knows that improving her sex life with you is the alternative. But mark on the calendar when the deadline is for fixing this. Do that for your own sake as well as theirs. You need to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I hope the three of you can work this out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'm so sorry. It sounds like poly hell to the max.

https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

And wife losing interest in you and not wanting to say it.

And maybe Lexi thinking she had to date you just to gain access to wife and not wanting to say that either.

Then everyone jumping into living together so fast just exacerbates things.

During a conversation the other evening, I told them both that we need to figure this out, because I refuse to be in a sexless relationship with either of them. I don’t deserve that and have done a lot of legwork being ok with everything up to this point, and this was a hard line I wasn’t willing to budge on.
Click to expand...

Good for you in speaking up for yourself.

If neither relationship meets your needs and is more like "relationship" than relationship, then I think it's ok for you to stop dating Lexi and if needed move on to trial separation from wife. She dates how she wants on her side. You date how you want on your side. Couple counseling to determine if the goal is reconciliation or as peaceful divorce as possible. Best to just be honest than doing weird poly or people pretending to be into each other when they are not.

I don't know what that might look like.
  • This group changes to you and Lexi breaking up and stops trying to triad and becomes a poly V. You and wife reconcile and you poly date other people.
  • This group changes to you and wife breaking up
  • This group changes to wife and Lexi breaking up
  • This group changes to everyone single again, all broke up.
  • This group changes from cohabitation to Lexi getting a flat of her own
  • A combo or something else.

I even acknowledged out loud, for the first time, that if this wasn’t something that could be resolved (and my wife explicitly said she didn’t want me seeking to have my sexual needs filled by someone else) that the relationship between the three of us would be done and I would move on.
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Yup. You can't be just "going through the motions" here.

I crossed out wife's part. I get she's not comfortable, but she doesn't HAVE to be comfortable for you to decide you are done trying here and want to move on.


I recognize that I have to give them time to figure everything out, and I need to also be vocal about what I need, but how long is too long to keep putting myself through this? What else can I do?
Click to expand...

It sounds like everyone jumped in blind and perhaps undereducated. You could catch up your poly education, read books, listen to podcasts, think about a poly counselor. YMMV but you can try

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org

to seek one.

You could think about NOT living together while sorting this out so you get break from watching them dating.

When does Lexi's visa run out?

How long you want to give it is up to you. You have clocked what? 5 mos? I suppose you could go 6 mos, 9, 12 mos and then make a decision. It's not like you are going to give it 5 years, 10, 15 years, right?

I'm very sorry this is happening like this though. It sounds rough. :(

Galagirl
 
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I highly suggest you and Wife read the book Opening Up. It covers all the mistakes people often make when plunging into open relationships/polyamory unprepared.

Your wife fell in love with someone else by chatting online, it seems, had her visit and immediately moved her in. You tried to make it a triad, where all three of you would be equally in love with and attracted to and intimate with each other. Triads rarely work, and your attempt is no exception.

Most successful polyamorous couples do at least a year of research before attempting to open up to polyamory. It sounds like you barely did any prep work, and just moved this stranger into your home, letting the chips fall where they would.

You are in poly hell.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for
www.kathylabriola.com www.kathylabriola.com

You said you and Lexi "realized" you loved each other, but from here it seems, while you may like her, and vice versa, there is no strong romantic or sexual attraction, and I can barely see a friendship happening. You're on the sidelines while the other two are honeymooning right in front of you.

And the fact that your wife is not wanting to have sex with you, and yet wants you to wait until maybe she wants to again (maybe), and not seek a partner of your own, and allow her to revel in her sexy times with Lexi, is incredibly unfair. This shows a lack of respect for you, no matter her nice words. Her actions are obvious enough. She's checking out of her relationship with you and going all in with Lexi.

Now, she might tire of Lexi and vice versa. They honestly barely know each other. They are infatuated. This is an idealistic hormonal state. They've only known each other online and now in person for a couple of months. Their rose-colored glasses will come off in a year or so (if not before).

I think most people would tell you all to take a step back and heal your primary relationship first, send Lexi home, get couples counseling, and decide if you want to stay together, decide whether your wife is using Lexi as a band-aid for her r'ship with you, decide if you two are done and should move on separately.

You can't force your wife or Lexi to love you. They can say they do, but you can't force them to show it by dating you or having sex with you.
 
GalaGirl said:
I'm so sorry. It sounds like poly hell to the max.

https://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell

And wife losing interest in you and not wanting to say it.

And maybe Lexi thinking she had to date you just to gain access to wife and not wanting to say that either.

Then everyone jumping into living together so fast just exacerbates things.



Good for you in speaking up for yourself.

If neither relationship meets your needs and is more like "relationship" than relationship, then I think it's ok for you to stop dating Lexi and if needed move on to trial separation from wife. She dates how she wants on her side. You date how you want on your side. Couple counseling to determine if the goal is reconciliation or as peaceful divorce as possible. Best to just be honest than doing weird poly or people pretending to be into each other when they are not.

I don't know what that might look like.
  • This group changes to you and Lexi breaking up and stops trying to triad and becomes a poly V. You and wife reconcile and you poly date other people.
  • This group changes to you and wife breaking up
  • This group changes to wife and Lexi breaking up
  • This group changes to everyone single again, all broke up.
  • This group changes from cohabitation to Lexi getting a flat of her own
  • A combo or something else.



Yup. You can't be just "going through the motions" here.

I crossed out wife's part. I get she's not comfortable, but she doesn't HAVE to be comfortable for you to decide you are done trying here and want to move on.




It sounds like everyone jumped in blind and perhaps undereducated. You could catch up your poly education, read books, listen to podcasts, think about a poly counselor. YMMV but you can try

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory
www.polyfriendly.org

to seek one.

You could think about NOT living together while sorting this out so you get break from watching them dating.

When does Lexi's visa run out?

How long you want to give it is up to you. You have clocked what? 5 mos? I suppose you could go 6 mos, 9, 12 mos and then make a decision. It's not like you are going to give it 5 years, 10, 15 years, right?

I'm very sorry this is happening like this though. It sounds rough. :(

Galagirl
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Thank you for your reply Galagirl, I really appreciate all of it. Lily's visa is now fully approved, and as a student visa, expires in two years. I think at this point, the way I view it, is I'm going to try and give it until December to make a decision. I recognize that not everyone has been operating at full bars, because the focus (at least for Sara and Lily) has been getting the logistics of Lily's visa figured out.

I think for me, it is important to give them both time to (for lack of a better word) calibrate to living as a triad without the distraction/stress of getting the visa approved. That will not (and has not) stopped me from being vocal with them about my needs, but I'm also trying to balance that with giving them the space and grace to figure things out as I bring them up.

You are also 100% right in that this was jumped into very quickly. I don't really know how to express this other than this is just the way my wife operates. When she sees something she wants, she finds the quickest most efficient path to get to it. In this case, it just happened to be another person. We did barely any research on polyamory beforehand, and there were a few times where I tried to express to her that there were things I needed to understand before Lexi arrived. She didn't want to give me any concrete answers, because things could change once Lexi arrived here, but for someone who does not feel comfortable operating without some understanding of what I'm walking into, that was really hard for me to adopt a "take it one day at a time" approach.

A few updates since my last post:
  • I had a conversation with Lexi, asking her why she had a hard time connecting with me/building up our relationship. She said she sees a lot of herself and her previous situation in me and what is happening right now. Her relationship (immediately prior to meeting my wife) was one where she very clearly outlined her needs/wants from her partner, and those needs were not met, one of the larger ones being that they did not have a sexual aspect to their relationship, and in the few times they were intimate, her ex-partner was not sober. She did note that our situation (meaning me, my wife, and her) is different, in that she does love me, and that sexual/intimate connection is there, but she needs to work through her own barriers to help make that better. I haven't asked this yet, but I need to ask her again today if there is anything I can do to help with that. She will more than likely tell me to just keep being myself and work on me, but I always like to ask.
  • I also spoke to my wife regarding the sexual aspect of our relationship. For added context, our house is two stories. My wife's office is upstairs, and mine is downstairs. For the majority of the day, Lexi is upstairs with my wife in her office, she does occasionally come downstairs to see me, but prior to their month away, this happened very rarely. Largely in part due to them working on Lexi's visa process and figuring out things like, school, health insurance, etc. I took time off for about a week when I picked them up from the airport, and just went back to work today. Yesterday, I expressed to my wife that I recognize that defaulted separation (me downstairs, her upstairs with Lexi) meant that they may end up being intimate because I'm occupied with work. I told her I understood, but to please not forget what I asked her to work on, and to be respectful of me if that happened. She said she understood and agreed, and I had then asked if she had given any more thought to what she wanted our relationship to look like. She said she wanted to have intimate time with just me, but needed to make sure she discussed that with Lexi as well, not in an asking permission way, but more in a "Are you going to be ok?" way, affording her the same respect I asked my wife to give me.
More to come as things progress (I'm also not sure if this is the best place to provide those updates but I'm happy to do so).

Thank you again for your kind words.
Verita
 
Glad it helps you some. And thank you for more info.

Sounds like the visa is sorted and you have picked a decision time -- December. So another 5 mos out.

Her relationship (immediately prior to meeting my wife) was one where she very clearly outlined her needs/wants from her partner, and those needs were not met, one of the larger ones being that they did not have a sexual aspect to their relationship, and in the few times they were intimate, her ex-partner was not sober. She did note that our situation (meaning me, my wife, and her) is different, in that she does love me, and that sexual/intimate connection is there, but she needs to work through her own barriers to help make that better.
Click to expand...

Can't say I'm excited to hear that. People have their things, and that's ok. But I don't get why Lexi was so eager to put herself out there for healthy dating when she is in fact, not actually healthy yet. Sounds like jumping the gun.

Since Lexi has personal hurdles? You could tell Lexi you don't want to add to her stress, or yours. You rather not date. And then neither has to worry about a dating relationship right now or sharing sex.

In Dec you and Lexi can decide if there's enough interest there to start dating in December or just leave it as it is -- NOT dating each other and being polite metamours/roomies.

Reduce some of the stresses.

I don't really know how to express this other than this is just the way my wife operates. When she sees something she wants, she finds the quickest most efficient path to get to it. In this case, it just happened to be another person.
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Not excited to hear that either. To me small impulsiveness like buying a new pair of shoes is one thing. Jumping in blind to a whole string of things is another.

Jumping in blind/too fast into...
  • A poly triad when it could just be a poly V (all of you)
  • Living together (all of you)
  • Taking up with someone abroad who needs to sort their student visa (your partner first, then you.)
  • Taking up with someone who has past baggage to sort from previous relationship (your partner first, then you)

Well, it seems you are taking a stand and making some firm decisions now.

It's up to you if/when you want to update. You can also start a blog thread in that area.

Galagirl
 
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I, too, think that setting a timeline to have things sorted out and improved by December is wise for all three of you.
 
Mod hat: This is the perfect place to keep adding updates and asking for feedback. If you start another thread, it could be in the Blog section. But that section is more for journaling, not so much for the back and forth advice you may want from more experienced polyamorists. If you do start a blog, add a link to this thread for background.
 
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