New, want it to work, but struggling at times

[redpepper]

It sounds like you two need to change it up, big time. Maybe you need a different job, and she needs to get herself one, so she's not in the house all day. You both made choices together. They are no longer working, and she, in her unhappiness, has broken loose. Were there signs before now?

It sounds like you are done. Leaving it to her to divorce you seems a bit cowardly, to me. If you're done, then leave. Get yourself a place and go. It sounds like she has raised your kids, so they will be fine. Find a place they can visit when you are home, and figure out your separation agreement.

The other choice is to fight for what you have built and get about making the huge changes you need to make. Starting with your job for starters, maybe move into a smaller place. I don't know. You would know, though. You don't need her to start, but I would tell her what you are planning. If she agrees, she will say so. If not, then you know you are done.

If you ask me, she went to see her boyfriend because she needed a day off, not a day with the kids and you. If she stays at home all the time, why would she want to do that with you when she can go and have a life out side of the home? That's not very interesting to her, I bet. Same old same old. Blah. Boring.

Look, the hard done bit by bit is going to get you divorced. It's not very inspiring or confidence-building to her, I imagine. You two sound like you have become far too reliant on each other and need more independence. Our culture says that we should set things up as you two have done. I think that was what was meant by sexist. It doesn't work for most people. Why? Because it's a trap that leads to those in it losing their minds and wanting to break out. That's what I have noticed, anyway.

I bet if you created independence within your marriage, she would have little reason to go out and find someone interesting and independent to be with. He is simply an image of what she herself would like to have, I bet, who she would like you to be also: self-realized, self-sufficient, doing interesting personal things, having and meeting goals. So give it that to her and give it to yourself. It doesn't mean breaking up, just changing up the game.

 

[IndieSolo]

The Healing Separation

Okay, well if you are set on separating, let me share something with you called the Healing Separation. I wanted this kind of agreement with my ex, but he just wanted to move immediately to divorce. I think, if there is hope of healing the relationship, the Healing Separation is a good direction to consider, or at least incoporating some elements of it into your negotiations:

The Healing Separation
By Bruce Fisher, Ed.D. and Robert E. Alberti, Ph.D.
On October 20, 2003

A Healing Separation is a structured time apart which can help a couple heal a relationship that isn't working. It can also help revitalize and renew a relationship that is working. The Healing Separation is designed to transform the basis of a love relationship, moving it from neediness to health. A successful Healing Separation requires that both partners be committed to personal growth, and to creating healthier relationships with themselves and each other. Such a framework will allow them to carve out a new and more fulfilling relationship than they've known in the past.

The Healing Separation, like the old-style "trial separation," involves living apart for a while, with the decision as to whether or not to end the relationship put off until some future time. Unlike unplanned and unstructured separations, however, the Healing Separation is a working separation, in which you and your partner dedicate yourselves to investing in your own personal growth. If you can create a better relationship with yourself, that can allow different and healthier relationships with others.

Sometimes your work during a Healing Separation may be on "the old relationship," and sometimes it may be on "the old you." The Healing Separation is a creative way to strengthen both partners and build a new relationship without dissolving the partnership. Each partner agrees to the following goals for this separation:

1. To provide time and emotional space outside of the love relationship so I can enhance my personal, social, spiritual, and emotional growth.
   
   
2. To better identify my needs, wants, and expectations of the love relationship.
   
   
3. To help me explore my basic relationship needs, and to help me determine if these needs can be met in this love relationship.
   
   
4. To experience the social, sexual, economic, and parental stresses which can occur when I have separated from my partner.
   
   
5. To allow me to determine if I can work through my process better apart than I can in the relationship.
   
   
6. To experience enough emotional distance so I can separate out my issues, which have become convoluted and mixed up together with my partner's issues in our relationship.
   
   
7. To provide an environment to help our relationship heal, transform, evolve into a more loving and healthy relationship.

Some structure and awareness can help improve the chances of success of the healing separation. Unplanned and unstructured separations will most likely contribute to the ending of the relationship. This healing separation agreement attempts to provide structure and guidelines to help make the separation a more constructive and creative experience, and to greatly enhance the growth of the relationship rather than contributing to its demise.

Key Elements of the Healing Separation Agreement

1. Length of separation (Most couples have a sense of how long a separation they will need or want. It may vary from a few weeks to six months or longer.)
   
   
2. Time to Be Spent Together (A healing separation ideally should include some quality time together on a regular basis.)
   
   
3. Personal Growth Experiences (Ideally a healing separation would include as many personal growth experiences as feasible, practical, and helpful.)
   
   
4. Relationships and Involvements Outside of the Relationship (Ideally a joint decision and compromise should be made concerning social involvement, romantic, and sexual relationships outside of this relationship.)
   
   
5. Living Arrangements (Experience has shown that the in-house separation, with both parties continuing to live in the family home, results in a less creative experience. It seems to dilute the separation experience and keeps both parties from experiencing as much personal growth as is possible with separate living arrangements. It may not give enough emotional space to the person who needs it.)
   
   
6. Financial Decisions (Some couples will decide to continue joint checking accounts, savings accounts, and payment of bills. Other couples will completely separate financial aspects of the relationship.... If there is any chance for [significant] disagreement, each person could take out half of the assets and open separate accounts.)
   
   
7. Motor Vehicles (It is suggested ownership and titles not be changed until a decision has been made about the future of the love relationship.)
   
   
8. Children (It is important when a couple does a Healing Separation to minimize the emotional trauma for the children involved.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Adapted from REBUILDING: WHEN YOUR RELATIONSHIP ENDS, by Dr. Bruce Fisher and Dr. Robert Alberti. Published by Impact Publishers, Inc., PO Box 6016, Atascadero, CA 93423-6016, www.impactpublishers.com or phone 1-800-246-7228.
Author's Bio

BRUCE FISHER, ED.D. (1931-1998) developed the "rebuilding" model of divorce recovery nearly 25 years ago. Founder and director of the Family Relations Learning Center (Boulder, Colorado), he personally trained thousands of individuals and therapists in this approach, enriching the lives of hundreds of thousands worldwide. Popular divorce therapist, author, teacher, clinical member of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy.ROBERT E. ALBERTI, PH.D. is a psychologist, marriage and family therapist, Fellow (Psychotherapy) of the American Psychological Association, clinical member of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy, and author/co-author of several books, including million-copy bestseller YOUR PERFECT RIGHT. His work has received international recognition as the "gold standard" for psychological self-help.​

Source URL: http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Alberti1.html

 

[redpepper]

I just wanted to add, YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER HAPPINESS. That's bullshit. So stop playing the martyr here. No one is responsible for her happiness but her. She is trying to figure that out after years of putting it aside for you and her kids. Give her a chance. One day taking off with her boyfriend does not mean she isn't figuring it out. Slow down! Take a breath! Get through your anger and gain some perspective before you nail the coffin.

 

[IndieSolo]

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER HAPPINESS. No one is responsible for her happiness but her. She is trying to figure that out after years of putting it aside for you and her kids. Give her a chance. One day taking off with her boyfriend does not mean she isn't figuring it out. Slow down! Take a breath! Get through your anger and gain some perspective before you nail the coffin.

Yes. I said something similar to this earlier, basically. You may be reacting a bit rashly at this early stage. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[sagency]

A quick caution, RC.

Ultimatums are really scary. Your plan is reasonable in that it sounds like what you need to process things. But it could come across as aggressive or a threat. When my first wife (also poly) pushed me with an ultimatum, my reaction was to call her on it and walk. To this day I still look at ultimatums as something where if someone will push like that, I'm going to do what I can to mess up their plan and not give them what they want, no matter what. I have learned this about myself in the meantime though, so I don't let myself get into ultimatum situations, because my self-destructive streak will push the button.

If you need that plan, I'd advise phrasing it so it has fewer teeth. Let me comment on the plan as is and then suggest a revision...

1. The objective is to take a few months to let her figure out what she wants to do to be happy without me constantly in the way.

Me in the way? Dude, self-deprecating. Not cool. You're her husband, the primary bread winner, and the father of her kids-- so don't sell yourself short. I know your ego is beat up right now, but resist the urge for self-flagellation (unless you're secretly Mel Gibson or you're into that).

2. I will still live home. The kids will know nothing. But we are not operating as a couple any longer. This means she does not have to answer to me nor I to her.

Answer to? Ugh. Authoritative and controlling. Being controlling or wanting control is a common reaction when it feels like things are getting out of control. One of the themes you'll hear here, and in "normal" relationship forums, is that relationships are a balance. Try to let yourself think in terms of balance rather than control.

3. We will not have sex. She can do what she wants and I will do what I want.

Two thoughts here:
So you're not ok with sex right now. Understandable. I don't think you need to set up a multi-month sabbatical in stone. You might think it's needed so you can emotionally distance yourself, and if that's the plan, it's your call. You might consider internally making that decision without telling the wife that she's cut off. (Yes, yes, I know that's not communication, poly folk. See rule #2 that every situation is different.) You may decide later that sex is okay. But either way, if you tell her no sex, you're really forcing her unto Trent more.

If your intent is to open yourself up to the possibility of "doing what you want" (i.e., sex with someone else), then I'd suggest you state that explicitly instead. (See, poly folk, communication! ) I would expect that as a traveling executive you've had many opportunities, and it says something about how important your marriage is to you that you haven't indicated previous forays. (Heck, a foray may just show you how freaking complicated poly life can be and raise sympathy for the wife. Just sayin'.)

4. Again, the kids will know nothing,

Good to clarify. Not necessary to repeat.

5. We will assess progress at some point and determine if we extend the separation, eliminate the separation, or just divorce.

Reasonable. I suggest you pick a specific timeframe, though. Concrete goals have concrete action easier.


Here's how I would suggest almost the same thing to reduce ultimatum stress and allow a little more flexibility:
1. We need to take a few months to adjust to changes in our relationship.
2. The children are important, and their security is paramount. We should remain mindful of them during this adjustment. They need not be privy to details.
3. We will share our home while each of us works on being independent, happy, and healthy individuals.
4. We will assess our status in [TIMEFRAME] and determine how best to proceed at that time.

I feel this retains your objectives but will be less stressful for you both.

As I said in my post above, you need to take care of RC first. Then the wife. Then the kids. If this is what RC needs, go for it. Just do so calmly and deliberately. There's a lot of love in you, or you wouldn't hurt like this. We just want you to find the best way forward.

*hug*

 

[RobertCourage]

Thanks to all who responded. You are all very knowledgeable and reasonable. The issue is that I am not reasonable right now. My self-esteem is in the toilet. My feelings are crushed. I can't think straight. And you know what? I am fucking angry. Very fucking angry. So with anger comes ultimatums and demands. Maybe I just know deep down inside it's not going to work, so I am just cashing out now before I get hurt more. So I really don't care about pushing her away or ultimatums. I am guessing that's it

Right now, all I care about is my kids. Period. I don't have any more energy to put into this.

Again, call me a victim. Call me an asshole. Call me sexist. Call me whatever the fuck you want. It doesn't change the fact that she is fucking someone else right now as I sit here typing this.

I will take your timing suggestions under advisement. I can tell her I want to separate tomorrow or the next day just as easy as today. That is true. In fact, I am going back to work Monday, and I will not have to see her for 3 days straight. Maybe that's what I need. 3 days to get the fuck away from her and all of this shit.

 

[sagency]

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER HAPPINESS.

Agreed. And she is not responsible for your happiness. RC's happiness is RC's job. There's a reason I rewrote your "answer to" line as "independent... individuals." You can be a loving and caring man, and she can be a loving and caring woman, without needing the other to be happy. Instead, you can be happy and share your happy with each other. This takes a lot of pressure out of relationships.

One the best lessons on relationships I learned just from watching my stepmother was she'd tell my father about some event that interested her. When the time drew near, she'd putter around getting dressed and ready. At some point, she'd say, "I'm leaving for [event] in ten minutes, if you want to come along." If my father forgot and wanted to come along, he'd get ready, and she'd wait for him. If he had no interest, she'd give him a kiss and head out.

My father was born in the '40s and she in the '50s. It really stressed him out that she could go off and do stuff without him. He had grown up with the image that a couple had to always do things together. (This seems to translate into sitting on a couch, until one of them runs away never to return, as RP noted.) My stepmother would come home after her event and be glad to see him and have stories to share. Eventually he learned to appreciate that her freedom gave him freedom, too. (But I will admit that as a kid of about 11 or 12, it was kind of amusing how forlorn he would look for a while when the wife would go off without having to have husband along.)

So I grew up with that image of independent but loving individuals. It works for mono people (them, as far as I know, but highly likely) and for poly people (me). My "job" in relationships isn't to maintain the happiness of my partner, but to celebrate it when it's there and comfort when it's not.

 

[redpepper]

Well said, Sagency. Thanks for taking the time to say it. I wrote my post on a bus. Not enough time. But was I thinking about what you posted. Asking for needs to be met, requiring some attention to details, expressing emotions, and setting boundaries come across differently than ultimatums. They come from a place of working together, not "my way or the highway."

 

[RobertCourage]

Thanks for responding while on a bus. I do appreciate it. So what you're all suggesting is:

1. I define my own happiness and she defines hers. And it's okay if either of us do that independently? That sounds rational. But why should I not fear that she is running to him and away from me? She wants sex with him and not with me. Those are hard facts and real concerns for me.

2. I have patience to wait this out and not force the separation so soon. This means I would need to find a whole lot of inner strength that I am not sure is there.

I am trying. I hope you all see that. But I am only human. And this goes beyond all things I have ever felt. I can only hope that as I sit here wondering what she is doing with him, that she is making some kind if progress towards her goals. I can't wait forever.

 

[redpepper]

I'm not saying it's easy, or that you should not feel your pain. All I suggest is that you breathe, go slowly and be rational, as others have mentioned.

Its fucking hard work! I know that. I have been through it. But I didn't die.

One moment at a time. One day at a time. All the while checking in with myself and putting what I find all out in the open, with as much consideration as possible to my partner.

Hard stuff. You can do it! Keep talking here and know we are here for you.

 

[sagency]

You are all very knowledgeable and reasonable.

Fake it 'til you make it.

The issue is that I am not reasonable right now.

Yeah, we know. At least I know because I've been in that angry mode, too. On True Blood, a character in Season 3 says something to the effect of, "No, don't say that. Don't say that, because when someone says that, I black out and wake up surrounded by body parts."

There's a reason that quote stuck with me (beside being funny, of course).

That unreasonable black-outy-ness is why I keep advising RC to become RobertChill for a little while. You can always fuck everything up later. Just try to fuck everything up when you're sane and reasonable, so you fuck it up neatly.

My self-esteem is in the toilet. My feelings are crushed. I can't think straight. I am fucking angry.

Yep, that's been clear, too. Take some RC-time to reenergize. You trying to make major decisions while you're on tilt is not optimal. Would you make a decision at work when you're caught off-guard and angry? I bet you'd pull together some subject matter experts, drill down the numbers, and work the problem. In this case, this forum, your therapist, and trusted friends are your SMEs. Work the problem. You'll figure out a plan, but do it while sane, boss.

Maybe I just know deep down inside it's not going to work, so I am just cashing out now before I get hurt more.

Maybe you're just hurt and figure cashing out will end the hurt. You might consider that this is a permanent solution for a temporary problem.

Again, call me a victim. Call me an asshole. Call me a sexist. Call me whatever the fuck you want.

What if I called you dude-who's-been-hurt-and-is-trying-really-hard-to-cope? Yeah, "sexist asshole" is easier to say. Not that it helps right now. Near as I can tell, you are talking to a whole bunch of people that support a lifestyle that's foreign and kind of scary to you. You're hurt and saying things while hurt. So yeah, you do sound like a victimized asshole. (Sounds painful. I'm not a fan of having my asshole victimized.) But you keep coming back here and keep talking to us. That tells me you're trying real damn hard to not be a victim, or an asshole, and unlearn some of the programming that has you inadvertently say sexist-sounding things. You know what? That's tough and takes guts. Good on you, sexist asshole victim.

I can tell her I want to separate tomorrow or the next day, just as easy as today. That is true. In fact, I am going back to work Monday. And I will not have to see her for 3 days straight. Maybe that's what I need. 3 days to get the fuck away from her and all of this shit.

There you go! Really, dude, take some time to recharge. Have some fun this weekend. Hang out with those kids you love. Just be you. What she does in on her. Three days next week will give you some time to clear out the anger. If you want, spend time chatting her, spend time getting your ducks in a row for your plan, spend time talking to a close buddy (male or female) that knows you personally, or just do nothing but chill. This time next week you'll be in a much better position to move, whichever direction you decide to go.

*hug*

 

[sagency]

1. I define my own happiness and she defines hers. And it's okay if either of us does that independently? That sounds rational.

You've been here about three days and you're already mastering one of the most important parts of poly (or, really, relationship) life? Awesome! You might not realize how big that one thing is, but it's totally great. I'm happy for you.

But why should I not fear that she is running to him and away from me? She wants sex with him and not with me. Those are hard facts and real concerns for me.

She runs to him, but comes home to you, yes? Why not fear? Fear happens. It's just part of it sometimes. Think of a guy in boot camp (btw: you're in poly boot camp right now, Private RC). Soldiers all face fear, but through hard work and practice, soldiers learn to handle their fear in a way that they are able to accomplish their objectives. Defining your own happiness is part of setting your objectives. Happy healthy RC with happy healthy kids are some starter objectives.

The sex with him and not with you is tough to troubleshoot, given the details. I think everyone will agree the you're getting some major flak from NRE. Hang in there, trooper.

Another issue could be (wild conjecture) a sense of disconnect. Women really appreciate emotional connection, and it helps lubricate (mentally and physically) sexual connection. When's the last time you had an opportunity to woo her? When the last time you two had a chance to go on an actual date, just the two of you? Your story so far has talked about providing a fit environment and material things for her and you looking after the kids as well. What about you personally pampering her without the kids around?

Me personally, I would be butter in my wife's hands if she came up to me and said something like, "You know, when you're away, it reminds me how sexy you are and how lucky I am to have you in my bed at night..." (Ok, maybe not butter, unless it's a petrified stick of butter, but you get the idea.) Wifey may worry that you're trying to compete. It's not about his dick or your dick. It's about her being awesome and you loving her for being awesome.

Trent might have it easy because he doesn't have the kids and responsibility, but you have 19 years of learning and sharing. That's powerful stuff. Even if you worry about how shiny new is-- aluminum is shinier than steel, but steel is stronger. Remind her who the stud she fell in love with is. (This, btw, is a good idea on a regular basis in any relationship, regardless of anything else.)

2. I have patience to wait this out and not force the separation so soon. This means I would need to find a whole lot of inner strength that I am not sure is there.

Recharge, RC, and the strength becomes easier. Work on a happy RC, and the strength becomes easier. Reduce the stress and anger, and, well, you know. I believe you can find the patience and strength. We'll be here to cheer you on.

I am trying. I hope you all see that. But I am only human. And this goes beyond all things I have ever felt. I can only hope that as I sit here wondering what she is doing with him, that she is making some kind if progress towards her goals. I can't wait forever.

Poly-adjustment syndrome tends to be way over the top for a lot of people. We see you're trying. We're trying to help, and I'm glad you seem to be progressing. You might take comfort in the fact that what you're feeling is to be expected and does get easier over time. You just need to let time do its thing. Taking the next week before you worry about whether or not to bring up a structured plan is not forever. Having a mental timeframe internally may help you handle the interim. The fact you're trying so hard says a lot about what kind of man you are, trooper. Ooo rah!

 

[Magdlyn]

Women really appreciate emotional connection, and it helps lubricate (mentally and physically) sexual connection. When was the last time you had an opportunity to woo her? When was the last time you two had a chance to go on an actual date, just the two of you? Your story so far has talked about providing a fit environment and material things for her, and you looking after the kids, as well. What about you personally pampering her without the kids around?

I mentioned that earlier. I know when my ex-husband first got a gf, I was envious, not jealous, of their romantic dates. He was spending money on dinners out for her! He took her to a bookstore and read bits of poetry out loud to her! As I mentioned earlier, he and I had stopped going out for dinners, trying to be economical. And those lunches out with colleagues? He never even thought to bring me home a bloody box of pad Thai takeout.

So, when things got ugly, one of my gameplans was to date him, a lot, again. We were better off financially then, anyway, than at the point when our kids were very young. So, we'd get a babysitter and go out for dinner. We'd get a hotel room in Boston for the weekend and explore Chinatown or the North End. We'd leave the kids with grandma or aunt for a week and go to music fests or sightseeing in different states. This helped us see each other through fresh eyes, as lovers and individuals, not just as old Mom and Dad, the breadwinner and the household drudge.

Me personally, I would be butter in my wife's hands if she came up to me and said something like, "You know, when you're away, it reminds me of how sexy you are and how lucky I am to have you in my bed at night..." (Okay, maybe not butter, unless it's a petrified stick of butter, but you get the idea.)

Maybe dripping with melted butter?

 

[IndieSolo]

RC, if you are hell-bent on separation, here is an excerpt from another article I found when my separation first happened:

If you decide to separate clear ground rules need to be set. It is a trial for a particular length of time. No one is allowed to date any other person, and the couple themself get together at least a couple of time per week for a date. During the date each person must never talk about how great it is to be apart. The tendency, I found, that marriage couples will play games but testing the other to see if they are missed. In my opinon the only good thing about a trial separation is that it is reversible.

If you decide to enter into a trial separation, you must go through marital counseling. This separation period must be used to think about your differences, your mistakes, problems in your married life, what life was like when you were first married and of course ways to resolve your issues.

An absence of daily bickering and conflicts may be an effective answer to the question can separation save a marriage. Due to a lack of proximity, there is absolutely no chance for conflicts. Both the partners get enough time to think over their marital problems. Most of the marital problems originate from fear, ego or stubbornness. Resolution is possible as long as the partner wishes to keep trying.

The main purpose of trial separation is to develop the skills of resolving the problems before moving back together and working on improving the relationships. For a couple, a planned separation can be a good time to think, to analyze, to reflect, to calm down and cool off. It helps to make thoughtful decisions and thus work to save a marriage. But remember a trial separation can be dangerous.

In some cases, separation may be unplanned and there may be no plans for marriage counseling, no tentative time-line for separation and no guidelines agreed about seeing others. Hence, before you think about separation, talk with each other about the individual goals of separation. Both should be ready for seeking individual and joint counseling during the separation period.

The answer to the question, "can separation save a marriage?" lies within the person himself/herself; you need to realize how important your spouse is in your life and how life may be without him/her. What you are trying to recapture is what you had at first.​

I find the very last sentence most interesting. While we have romantic associations and nostalgic memories of how a relationship was when it began, people grow, evolve, change -- and that's a good thing. We cannot stay stagnant and expect to be happy. Yes, look at the importance of having your spouse in your life, but as they are now -- not as they were or how you wish them to be. You are both different people now and embracing change can make your love and relationship blossom into something wonderful that you never ever would have expected could come out of all the pain.

 

[redpepper]

NYC, do you have links for these posts that are oh so interesting and helpful?

 

[IndieSolo]

NYC, do you have links for these posts that are oh so interesting and helpful?

The first article I posted about The Healing Separation has links at the bottom. The last article I posted comes from http://www.saveyourmarriage.tv/What_About_A_Trial_Separation.html. I'm not sure if these would be considered commercial websites, so I was hesitant.

 

[RobertCourage]

Tonight's update.

We spoke about the pain of the day and how hard it was for me to sit alone while I knew she was being intimate with him. And she was compassionate and understanding. We also spoke about taking some time to think about the separation. It was a calm discussion. So, no decisions tonight.

We then had the opportunity to be alone and intimate for the first time in a while. And, believe it or not, we felt a very strong connection that went very far in making both of us feel like this may turn out okay. Honestly, we made love. And it was quite good and reassuring that there is something still there to fight for. A bond that is meaningful.

So I am going to have to be RobertChill for a while, while the dust settles and we figure out if the connection tonight is sustainable and the poly relationship is doable.

I thank all of you for talking me off the cliff. If we do decide on the separation once we give it time, I have a wealth of information thanks to your posts. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that. Since this started I have been a supporter of the concept of not 'Wasting Love' (hey, that's an Iron Maiden song!). I hope we can save our love and make this work, instead of throwing it away due to my fear of the unknown, my insecurities, etc.

If we decide to keep making this work, then I know I have a network of supporters that really give a shit-- even about a stranger! You should all be very proud of your dedication to helping people who are dealing with the pressures of this unconventional situation.

I can only hope that what she and I felt tonight was real and that we can leverage that as a springboard.

And the even better news is that she and Trent are still on board with us getting together as a threesome, once our schedules align, to experience the magic that happens when the three of us are intimate.

Thanks again to all.

 

[sagency]

Well done, RobertChill.

Let us know if you need anything. All the best to you and yours.

 

[RobertCourage]

Today's update. She woke up and told me she had plans to meet Trent for coffee. I told her to have fun and tell him I said hello.

One thing I learned yesterday that I didn't appreciate was that the whole time they were together he was under the impression that I was not aware. When she told him that I knew where she was he kind of freaked out. She told him there can be no lies or deception. I think that's great on her part. I am not thrilled that he was so ready to continue 'behind my back.' He says he cares about me and doesn't want to break up my marriage, but then he is very quick to betray my confidence. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I am not losing sleep over it, but it does bug me a little.

The other thing I thought I would throw out to this audience, since you are so helpful. is how I felt yesterday when she and I were intimate. It was a real turn-on for me to think that she was with him earlier and then she was with me. It felt 'dirty' but also felt right. Any thoughts on that? Am I nuts?

I also asked if she and I could spend some quality time later to just chill. No deep conversations, no stress, no need for Xanax (lol). She was open to that, so I am hoping we can try and resume a normal life.

Let's be positive and hope for the best.

Thanks again to all! Hope you are all having a great day. It's nice and sunny here.

 

[TruckerPete]

I think it's at least as likely that Trent just doesn't understand that things like this can operate in an above-board fashion. Some people can be tempted, in an NRE-induced state, to just pretend that if they don't ask, there is nothing wrong going on. Stick their heads in the sand, as it were. Passively deceptive, I like to say. As in, he's not telling her not to tell you, or he's not lying to you, but if she chooses to, that's not his problem ...

If you and she keep letting him know that everyone is aware of what's going on, he should snap out of it, if it's just a case of bad programming.

Out of curiosity, did your wife tell him you knew, or did he ask?