No kissing!

[Halcyeus]

I'm seeing someone (I'll call her Taphy from now on) and things are getting quite deep appallingly quickly. Six weeks in and we're already on the edge of moving in together. This isn't ideal since I'm still in an early phase of separating from my wife. Bad timing. Anyway, that isn't what I want to focus on here.

Taphy, as a burgeoning primary partner, doesn't want me to kiss other people I'm intererested in potentially dating until she's met them.

The rule as I orginally suggested it was for us not to engage in sex with others we might date before both of us had met with them at least a few times in order to discus things through, establish some connection and allow emotions enough time to arise and percolate through our awareness before proceeding. This is especially relevant because we'd both like to form a triad, if we can.

Kissing is very intimate and for both me and Taphy its also sexually intense. The way I kiss is one of the more seductive things I can do to someone, so I can understand her not wanting me to kiss someone else I'm curious about until she can get to know and trust them a little.

Taphy has been poly for many years but does get a little jealous and insecure as an initial reaction to her lovers seeing others, so there is that too. Things are no doubt intensified by the fact the NRE is powerful and we both have hopes we're heading into something singificant and long-term.

The thing is, to me part of determining whether there is potential chemistry with someone would include kissing. I haven't agree to no kissing in principle, though I'm still considering it. Being a bit cautious about it is fine. I can be flexible and so can she.

How do you, or would you think or feel about a partner kissing a date before meeting them a couple of times? I'm curious.

 

[PinkPig]

Kissing is very intimate and for both me and Taphy its also sexually intense. The way I kiss is one of the more seductive things I can do to someone, so I can understand her not wanting me to kiss someone else I'm curious about until she can get to know and trust them a little.

My partner, Blue, & I also believe that kissing is very intimate and sexual. I mean, obviously, it depends on the kiss.

The thing is, to me part of determining whether there is potential chemistry with someone would include kissing. I haven't agree to no kissing in principle, though I'm still considering it. Being a bit cautious about it is fine. I can be flexible and so can she.

How do you, or would you think or feel about a partner kissing a date before meeting them a couple of times? I'm curious.

I would also absolutely agree that kissing is one way to determine whether there's chemistry or not.

I also can see why Taphy's gut reaction is to limit kissing but I think even though she's focusing on the kissing, it's not the kissing she's trying to set limits on, it's the intimacy. And, I totally get that. My initial reaction when Blue dates someone for the first time is insecurity and fear. Asking him to limit activities x, y, and z is tempting because then I don't have to deal with my insecurity and fear... But it's controlling behavior and in my experience, attempting to control other's behaviors/actions fails miserably and ends up affecting our relationship detrimentally. Instead, working through my fears and insecurities, just makes me a healthier, better person and partner. And makes my life all around better.

The first gf Blue started seeing after me, we did mutually agree that he'd wait to have sex with her until after I met her. The thing was, it was more anxiety provoking for me to have them wait because it became this big THING. It was actually LESS anxiety provoking for me after they'd done it and I saw that he still wanted me, still loved me, and still wanted to be with me.

WIth his latest gf, they had sex before I met her. Yes, I still had some uncomfortable feelings to work through but it was easier than last time. I think it's one of those things, the more you work through your feelings, fears, and insecurities, as opposed to limiting someone else's behavior, the easier it gets, and the more secure you feel. And, I'm guessing that it gets a little easier with practice... so the more you date & kiss others, the easier it will get for Taphy.

The understanding that Blue & I have is that we'll notify each other when we meet someone new for the first time and we'll notify each other when we have sex for the first time (before we have sex again which for us is daily so he'd tell me the same day or morning after.) That's our agreement and so far it's worked

 

[tenK]

Eh… this seems a bit extreme to me. Like you, I find a good kiss at the end of the night can tell you a lot about your chemistry, and at the end of the day, make or break whether I want to see someone again (and whether it's even worth my partner's while to meet this person at all). Not that ALL my dates would end in a kiss mind you, but if you both have the desire and then you have to put your hand up and say 'actually, I'm not allowed to go there with you yet', then it's going to be a problem. If you do go ahead with the agreement, I think you should probably explain the situation to all your prospective partners in advance, because explaining it in the moment might well send them running for the hills. You might find that that puts the brakes on the date altogether (in their shoes, I'd take that as a sign that you and/or your partner is not fully comfortable with your open relationship yet), but it seems fairer to be up front.

 

[LoveBunny]

I have not ever been in this situation, but I suspect if I were dating someone who had a partner who set rules or limits on my relationship, I'd rebel. If I was told "my girlfriend says I can't kiss you until she's vetted you," I think that would probably be our last date ever.

 

[playfulgirl]

Yeah my response would be 'oh hell no!'
Talk about what's behind the kissing rule. What emotion/fear does the rule protect? How can these things be addressed in a way that is less intrusive to your dating partners?

 

[Dagferi]

My reaction would be run from any man who came with restrictions that effect me.

 

[FallenAngelina]

The way I kiss is one of the more seductive things I can do to someone, so I can understand her not wanting me to kiss someone else I'm curious about until she can get to know and trust them a little.

Trust what? I never understand what people mean by this because ultimately, getting close to people means that you can get hurt or burned or bummed out or whatever. Trust the person to never hurt, burn or bum you out? That is building your world on shifting sands. Is the trust about people proving themselves worthy? This perspective is also fraught with all sorts of problems and the focus is on ways that bad stuff is always lurking behind corners.

If Taphy (and you) focus on trusting your own individual inner ability to feel whole, stable, upright, worthy and lovable then that is what will grow in your relationship and you don't have to worry a bit about what the other is up to and to what extent and with whom. Trust becomes a non-issue when a person has confidence in herself and has the means to shore herself up in ways that do not involve checking other peoples' behavior. I'd encourage Taphy (great nickname, BTW) to work on how she fortifies her own sense of well being instead of trying to manage relationship insecurities with rules and behavior checks. That will serve her in many ways, not just in this one relationship with you.

As for this particular rule, I would be very weirded out if I had a good date with someone, then was told that he/she couldn't kiss me for whatever reason. Of course kissing is intimate and sexually arousing! That's why we do it!.....and don't do it with all and sundry, but kissing after/during a good date is well within the bounds of "normal" and "expected" ever since we passed out of the Victorian era.

 

[GalaGirl]

How do you, or would you think or feel about a partner kissing a date before meeting them a couple of times?

I would feel fine. Kissing is on the shallow end of the pool for me. Sticking my tongue in a person's mouth or having theirs in mine is not the same as oral sex or other kinds of sex to me. I would not agree to holding off on kissing.

I do not see why you would agree to that if kissing is part of your "get to know you" dating activities.

Maybe this sheet helps you figure out where the lines are for you? Then your potential new primary can know, and make up her mind if she want to be with you from a place of full info. Sort this out BEFORE you move in together -- otherwise that sounds like potential mess.

http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf

This stuff is green light stuff.
This stuff is yellow light -- discern case by case "proceed with caution" stuff.
This stuff is red light stuff.

Talk it out with her. But don't agree to anything you are not willing to agree to. Saves time and feelings all around to be straight up about it.

"I see you want that. I am sorry. I am not willing to agree to that."

Just be plain spoken.

Galagirl

 

[Inyourendo]

Seems really controlling that you can't kiss someone until she meets them and that she has to meet them to give approval. I wouldn't enter into an agreement like that and quite honestly I question whether I could do poly with someone who wants all these rules and restrictions on you. Is that what you want? Sounds like there will be tons of potential drama and as someone dating you if you said "I really like you but sorry can't kiss you until my live in partner meet you first " Id run for the hills. I decide when I kiss someone, not anyone else

 

[FallenAngelina]

.... Six weeks in and we're already on the edge of moving in together. This isn't ideal since I'm still in an early phase of separating from my wife. Bad timing.

You said you don't want to focus on this, so feel free to brush aside the question, but are you sure there is no other more stable living option for you right now? You and Taphy can enjoy your NRE up to your eyeballs without living together. So very much is in flux for you right now. Wouldn't you like a home-base situation that is as reliable as possible and not dependent on either your outgoing or incoming romance?

 

[Halcyeus]

Thanks. Great feedback! We'll keep talking.

Rules and behavior checks do seem unhealthy right now. I'll discuss this tonight. I also think we're talking about becoming primary partners way too early. The caution of taking things more slowly and not being too restrictive will win out and we sort of know it will. Its just exciting right now to go over the possibilities (and check with each other that we're okay with such possibilities should things work out that way).

Maybe this sheet helps you figure out where the lines are for you? Then your potential new primary can know, and make up her mind if she want to be with you from a place of full info. Sort this out BEFORE you move in together -- otherwise that sounds like potential mess.

http://openingup.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Open-Relationship-Checklist-OU.pdf

This stuff is green light stuff.
This stuff is yellow light -- discern case by case "proceed with caution" stuff.
This stuff is red light stuff.

What a great sheet of things that is. I'm going to print us both a copy for meeting up tonight.

You said you don't want to focus on this, so feel free to brush aside the question, but are you sure there is no other more stable living option for you right now? You and Taphy can enjoy your NRE up to your eyeballs without living together. So very much is in flux for you right now. Wouldn't you like a home-base situation that is as reliable as possible and not dependent on either your outgoing or incoming romance?

Oh, yes I would. There is actually quite a bit more in flux for me than an outgoing and incoming relationship, so I'm probably going to go for the simplicity of my own place to make things easier. Moving in together is risky and we know it. It just seems potentially convenient because we both happen to be moving anyway, it would mean one less room in her new place to worry about renting and we're spending as much of our time together as we can right now.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm probably going to go for the simplicity of my own place to make things easier.

Good.

Moving in together is risky and we know it.

Good.

It just seems potentially convenient because we both happen to be moving anyway, it would mean one less room in her new place to worry about renting and we're spending as much of our time together as we can right now.

Handy for saving on the rent, but not so much for mental health. It's hard to get away from each other in a flat if that's where both people live.

Could view it as an investment at this time toward mental well being. You are only 6 weeks in and don't know each other all that well. If you guys need to be apart for a time out, there's a space to get away TO for that time apart. Or if things lead to a break up, that's already sorted. You don't have to be living with your ex til the end of the lease or til one can secure a new place/roomie.

There's space already secured.

To me? In those shoes? That extra rent paid = peace of mind.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

In my experience, living together is pretty well married. Are you ready to be married again, H?

 

[IndieSolo]

Hmm, you have a rule or set of rules you want established, and she has her own, as well.

Think about this, Halceus: Why, exactly, do you need rules? Hmm? What purpose do they serve? Or are you establishing rules just because you think that is how poly should be done? I am asking in all sincerity because it really is befuddling to me that rules would even be necessary in adult relationships. I think if we can help you deconstruct the reason both of you want these rules, it might be helpful for you to really see what is needed and what is not.

So... what are the reasonings behind these rules?

 

[Norwegianpoly]

I'm seeing someone (I'll call her Taphy from now on) and things are getting quite deep appallingly quickly. Six weeks in and we're already on the edge of moving in together. This isn't ideal since I'm still in an early phase of separating from my wife. Bad timing. Anyway, that isn't what I want to focus on here.

Taphy, as a burgeoning primary partner, doesn't want me to kiss other people I'm intererested in potentially dating until she's met them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you met her just six weeks ago, the relationship is so intense she is moving in with you and you are also separating from your wife, I can understand she does not want to bring any more people into the mix. Talking about the kiss is her way of saying: please don't date anyone else until life is more stable and settled, you just met me, focus on me for a while. Basically NRE.

 

[Magdlyn]

I know that swingers often refuse to kiss others than their primaries. Ever. Kissing really causes intimacy, In the hormones, in the brain, it causes a rush of oxytocin, which is a BONDING hormone, found in mothers who are breastfeeding, found during intercourse, found during kissing.

It causes contractions in muscles. It causes labor during birth, milk ejection in the breast, and orgasms. I can cum from kissing alone.

So. If your brand new gf wants you to not kiss anyone until she meets them ("several times" even), this is not poly, imo. This reeks of couple privilege, and frankly, fear. Which is not attractive.

My gut says neither of you should be dating others right now. Rather than worry about whether your brand new gf "trusts" anyone new you're interested in fucking, how about your two get to know each other, get your rocks off, let your own NRE simmer down to something steadier? Read more about polyamory together. Have fun fantasizing about it. But don't try to date anyone new. You're too wobbly, and probably bound to hurt someone, if anyone you meet even agrees to this no kissing rule in the first place!

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Halcyeus):

"How do you, or would you think or feel about a partner kissing a date before meeting them a couple of times?"

I trust my partner a lot, and wouldn't be concerned if she kissed someone before I met them. I imagine I would feel that way with other partners too. To quote Sting, "If you love someone, set them free."