Oh help, what to do when kids get too attached to a new person??

LostPixie

New member
Here is my blog for what tiny bit of background it will give:
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78313

So, about a month ago, I was in a dark place and feeling myself tip toward abysmal levels of darkness between depression, being very overwhelmed, and having a faith crisis due mostly to isolation. I decided to go with friends to a bar, and chanced into an old friend, Goth. Neither of us were looking for anything, but sparks flew and everything just feels so RIGHT (NRE).

We confessed mutual crushes from back in the day, and that those crushes were alive and well. He's monogamous and I'm actively poly. We fell into a lusty romance pretty quickly though. He happens to be seeking to reconnect to faith (similar to mine) as well. And while he has never been much of a kid-person, he very much enjoys hanging out with me and my 2 monkeys.

Goth and one of my Girlfriends helped me move last weekend, a very emotionally taxing event which I anticipated would leave me highly unstable, so I requested that Goth be around as much as he can this week while I recover.

This happens to be Spring Break for Monkey1 (5 years old), so I've had him home along with Monkey2 (2 years old). Goth has been very present and helpful when ever he is not at work. A real life-sanity saver!!

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So what's the problem???

Well, I'm divorced from the father of my Monkeys, and Daddy isn't very involved with the boys. I accommodate as much as I can but he works 3pm-11pm at least 5 days/ week, and sometimes goes a month without a day off, while HIS emotional-mental-verbally abusive father lives in his home. Daddy kept getting too close to me in very inappropriate ways, so in December I had to make a hard choice to put my emotional and mental safety as a priority: I will not be around him without another adult present. The most private is handing off in the parking lot of public businesses.

Daddy loves the Monkeys, and I've continued to try and foster their connection.

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Monkeys are both VERY affectionate. They freely dole out "I love you"s, hugs, and other carings. They also struggle with personally boundaries, but I and all the grownups have been working with them on that. And conduct is always appropriate around Monkeys.

Monkey1 has now told Goth at least 3 times some form of "I want you to be my daddy" or "I wish I were your kid."

*heartsink*

I absolutely adore Goth, and he is trying to just roll with it. When Monkeys say "I love you" he says "Aww" in a gentle, adoring tone, regardless of how much Monkey1 insists its forever and really really. I mean, what else can he do?? We both KNOW it's too early for those 3 little words.

I've NEVER tried to replace Daddy in their lives, quite the opposite in fact. I was present this morning when Monkey1 said this to Goth and I told Monkey he needs to not say things like that because it is disrespectful to Daddy.

IDK WTF to do?!?!

I would be dangerously unwell if not for the help Goth has been recently. My life had a gapping hole my other loves could not cover and he stepped right in with out even knowing how big the gap was **but with full disclosure on poly, kids, etc**.

Monkeys need strong, kind, good role models of many varieties in their lives. Daddy and I both agree on this. We both believe a more "village" approach is healthier with many "aunt and uncle" type care givers in the mix. I planned to have any friends and lovers who are around often, or over a long time to take up "aunt/uncle" type roles.

But I don't know how to handle this. The couple of poly families with kids I'm aware of don't have the "divorce with small children" things going on.

I'm lost and scared of doing the "wrong" thing by having no idea what a "righter" thing might be.

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I DO NOT WANT

-to alienate Daddy further (he does a job of it himself)
-to cause Monkeys more turmoil than is already present
-to push Goth away, at all (for both selfish and considerate reasons)

When Daddy brought Monkeys back Monday, Goth was here (we spent the morning rushing around to get the place manageable and kid safe) so I offered Daddy to take a look at New Place (hoping it would set him at ease). Instead he took the opportunity to throw word daggers, "I don't want to go where I'm not welcome." He was about to leave without hugging Monkeys over it.
 
I work with kids, so I COMPLETELY understand how quickly they get attached, and how hard that can be on adults, especially when the attachments seem disproportionate.

First of all, I want to say that ALL kids do this, even kids who have two happy, healthy, loving, married parents. They are still figuring out what family means, what roles mean, what it is to be Mommy or Daddy or Sister or Friend. So while I understand why you're stressed, know that you could be happily married to their dad and they would do this with the guy who came to paint the house :)

I don't have a ton of advice - most of my experience comes from situations where I'm trying to keep some kind of professional distance (as much as that's ever possible with a toddler :rolleyes:) and there's no reason Goth has to do that. But - saying "Awwww that's so sweet!" is fine.

So is distracting them. If the "I wish you were my daddy" gets out of hand, Goth can say "Daddy? Hmmmm. That's kinda boring. What if I was your... Dinosaur?" and play dinosaur. Or some other animal they like. I guess that one assumes he's *really* into kids, lol.

He can also keep it simple - "I don't need to be your dad! I like being your friend!"

As long as the grownups reinforce the reality, the kids will understand. "Daddy is your only daddy, but you and Goth can be friends" will get through. Having him around is fun and different, and they're figuring out what it means. Is every man a daddy? Is every man who comes to my house my daddy? That kind of thing.

Only caution (and I'm sure you know this :)) is to be clear about how often and how long he will be in their lives. No "forever and ever" if it's not a sure thing. It's ok not to know - just be honest and say he will visit and play sometimes, maybe use examples of other people who are sometimes there and other times not, like relatives, other friends.

And be glad they have a new grown up friend :D I'm a big fan of the "aunties and uncles" thing too, and I hope he can be that to your monkeys.
 
Hi LostPixie,

I would take things the kids say with a grain of salt; they're very young and are still learning how the world works. As for Daddy's, "I don't want to go where I'm not welcome," remark, I would seek some clarification on that. Is he upset because you and Goth are seeing each other, or because *he* thinks the kids see Goth as a replacement father figure, or both ... or something else entirely?

I hope I can be of some help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I am the mom to three awesome well adjusted kids all boys 22, 13 and 9. I have been a single parent and I am poly.

I disagree with having people I am in romantic relationships in come in and out of my children's lives. No one met my children when they were young unless they were around awhile and I knew they are in for the long haul.

Butch didn't meet my oldest until we were in a committed relationship for several months. He was slowly eased into his life in baby steps. My oldest sons father died shortly after he was born. I didn't want him attached to men who may not be there.

The younger two didn't meet Murf until we had been dating over 6 months. Again he was slowly eased into their lives. The kids didn't see him sleep over until a year in. We didn't sleep over at Murf until that time too.

My youngest loves Murf he will slip and call him dad even though Butch is an awesome dad. He would be heart broken if Murf was gone tomorrow. Luckily he isn't going anywhere any time soon. Plus he is old enough to understand what happened. 4 years ago it would have been damaging to Squirrel. He would have taken it all personally and to heart.
 
I think you are over thinking it. The kid doesn't seem uncomfortable -- you do. Don't project your stuff on to your kid. This is a little kid having little kid enthusiasms.

I was present this morning when Monkey1 said this to Goth and I told Monkey he needs to not say things like that because it is disrespectful to Daddy.

How it is disrespectful to Daddy for Monkey to express himself in the moment like a little kid? He IS a little kid. :confused:

He can wish a lot of things at that young age but a lot of them are going to be nonsense. He can wish he's a crocodile, wish he could fly, etc. This is just another one of those things. And what should he call him instead? You do not say. Focus on telling the kid what to DO instead of focussing on your anxiety.

You could choose to say "I see you like Goth a lot. He is a great FAMILY FRIEND. I appreciate his help this week. Can you tell Goth he's a good friend and you are glad he's helped this week?" and leave it there. I see that your own relationship with their Daddy is challenging, but that's not the kid's problem. The kid is just talking about his current (and childish) feelings. His feelings will change over time and the way he expresses himself and his feelings will change also.

I used to work in a nursery and all those toddler/preschoolers called the adults Mommy/Daddy. They all grew out of it too -- and over time changed to Mr and Mrs whatever it was as they were taught. But when you have limited vocab and things are hard to say? Mommy/Daddy works and that's how they all seemed to start out in my class.

Same with limited feelings vocabulary. All good things are "love" -- love the peanut butter, love the dog, love the person. All bad things are "hate." Hate the naps, hate the peanut butter, hate the kid who took the crayon! Very black and white! They don't get more refined feeling words and nuances til later and the "all purpose love" becomes more varied things -- like, enjoy, appreciate, love, adore, etc.

A lot of kids also don't develop "internal voice" until 6-8 years old so yours are going to be "blurters" for a while yet. They feel/see/think whatever and just blurt it out. Be ok with that. Don't assign deeper meaning to these "popcorn thoughts" than they merit and then get bent out of shape over it. Learn to roll with it also and model what you want out of the kids.

I absolutely adore Goth, and he is trying to just roll with it. When Monkeys say "I love you" he says "Aww" in a gentle, adoring tone, regardless of how much Monkey1 insists its forever and really really. I mean, what else can he do?? We both KNOW it's too early for those 3 little words.

You can check in with Goth to be he sure reinforces what you want reinforced. YOU are the parent.

Tell him that you see the Monkey's like him a lot and say they love him, but to keep in mind they are exuberant young kids. Goth can enjoy the kid compliments. Tell him you prefer he respond with something easy like "Thanks, Monkey! You are a great kid! I like you a lot too. I like being your family's friend and helping!" and leave it at that and redirect to something else. "What do you like to help with?" or similar.

A response like that is true enough for the situation at hand. And a sentence like

"Thanks, Monkey! You are a great kid! I like you a lot too. I like being your family's friend and helping!

-does not alienate Daddy
-does not cause Monkeys more turmoil than is already present
-does not push Goth away, at all
- gently enforces personal boundaries without clobbering them over the head with it or shutting down their expression.

Galagirl
 
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I've NEVER tried to replace Daddy in their lives, quite the opposite in fact. I was present this morning when Monkey1 said this to Goth and I told Monkey he needs to not say things like that because it is disrespectful to Daddy.

I just have to point out that you're in a polyamorous life, on a polyamorous forum and you're recoiling in fear that your child loves two fathers. It's never too early to feel and express love and it's never nonsense. What Monkey1 feels is a genuine and beautiful thing. If you fear his attachment to someone who may leave, then it's your job to regulate who comes into your children's' lives, but never tell a child (or anyone) that love of one person is disrespectful to another. This is true for all humans, but poly people know it and live it. Your children love openly and freely and instead of trying to "train" them, why not choose more to learn from them? Do you really want your children to learn that love means having to struggle over which person to love? You're struggling with this and your children will be trained by your example to fret and worry about inappropriate love. I encourage you to see your children as beautiful inspiration in exactly what poly is all about: that love is an infinite wellspring and not a limited resource that needs to be guarded. Right now, you're training them to adopt a competition/scarcity model of love while your children are expressing their (and all of our) natural knowing that allowing love just generates more. This is the problem, not that they are behaving inappropriately. Your husband and you are taking an extreme scarcity approach, which surprises me, given how well you know that love is an infinite natural resource.
 
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I've NEVER tried to replace Daddy in their lives, quite the opposite in fact. I was present this morning when Monkey1 said this to Goth and I told Monkey he needs to not say things like that because it is disrespectful to Daddy.
Kids take their cues from their parents. Yeah your kids may have a father, but (because of whatever happened) you don't treat him that way. (This is not a criticism, it's just an observation.) This is especially apparent to the boys when they see Daddy and Goth in the same place at the same time.

Kids watch. That's one of the ways they learn. The intimacy you show Goth is typically the intimacy you would have shown their Daddy if things didn't fall apart. So the boys are taking their cue from you. They see your adoration of Goth and--since they have a close bond with you--they want to adore Goth as well.

Secondly, these boys clearly desire/need more male influence in their life, which is to be expected. The bottom line is that the more Goth is around, the more the boys will bond with him. You can't prevent that unless you prevent the boys from seeing Goth. I tend to agree with Dagferi on this, in that bringing new people in and out of a child's life is not good for the kids. (There are studies to back this up.)

The bottom line is that there is nothing you can do to/with your kids to change this. As Galagirl aptly noted, the kids are being kids. The only variable you have at your disposal is how you integrate Goth into your life. You do *not* have to push him away, but you may want to consider seeing Goth more when the boys aren't around. If you're unable/unwilling to do that, then you'll have to deal with things the way they are.

Just be careful though. I knew a single dad, with a young daughter. (mom had issues with drugs on and off) When he started dating, he didn't put any distance between his girlfriend and his daughter. The girlfriend was over at his place often since it meant he didn't need to get a babysitter. The daughter and woman bonded fairly quickly, and then (a few months later) when the daughter was supposed to stay over at the mother's house on a weekend, the daughter refused to go because she wanted to stay with her "new mommy". This is despite the fact that they weren't in that deep of a relationship, and clearly nowhere near marriage or anything serious like living together. And the dad had the daughter calling the woman by her first name too, the 'mommy' reference was spontaneous.

It doesn't take much for kids to bond with the 'new person', which is why I think Dagferi has the right idea in keeping new people at arms length from the kids until things become serious. Remember too, if the kids bond with Goth, they'll likely be broken-hearted should things with Goth not work out and he's not around anymore. It works both ways.
 
If you are worried that their attachment is showing signs of being indiscriminate (and at their ages, most kids will have grown out of that - it's usually just present in babies) then I think it's something you need to take seriously. To be honest, I have only seen this once personally, in a 5 year old child who was from a pretty chaotic home environment (mother was bipolar, dad was an idealistic dreamer without basic skills in self-care). I would count myself as an acquaintance to the family at best (Dad was an MSc student on the same course as me, and lived in my neighbourhood - we were friendly but not 'friends' if you know what I mean). Yet every time she saw me she would run up to me, take my hand, be very physically affectionate and tell me how much she loved me, all with a lot of sincerity. She did this with a lot of adults in our department when he would bring her in with him, which he would do about once a month when his wife was struggling with her at home. I really don't think it was a healthy sign.

I'm not meaning to catastrophise, but indiscriminate attachment is pretty serious. If it's not just happening with Goth, perhaps something deeper is going on here that requires more than just modelling of more appropriate behaviour.
 
If you are worried that their attachment is showing signs of being indiscriminate (and at their ages, most kids will have grown out of that - it's usually just present in babies)

This is absolutely not true and I have to vehemently disagree with your entire post. Children bond quickly because they have not been told and shown by "life" to withhold affection and love. To love quickly and freely is what's natural and what is "socialized" out of us. A five year old child who bonds easily is healthy. Pathologizing and reacting in fear to the natural inclination to love is what's not.
 
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This is absolutely not true and I have to vehemently disagree with your entire post. Children bond quickly because they have not been told and shown by "life" to withhold affection and love. To love quickly and freely is what's natural and what is "socialized" out of us. A five year old child who bonds easily is healthy. Pathologizing and reacting in fear to the natural inclination to love is what's not.

Of course, you are free to agree or disagree as you see fit. I'm not getting this idea from something dumb like an attachment parenting handbook or anything. I'm an academic working in a psychology department, and although I wouldn't pretend to be an expert in any child development area other than language, and I'm certainly not an advocate of pathologising via the internet, this is a frequent 'red-flag' that social workers look out for, for instance in children within foster care environments. The OP wouldn't have posted about this unless something about this resonated badly with her. Normally you are one for encouraging people to follow their instincts Karen. My instincts say that this isn't always a healthy behaviour and that it would be wrong of me not to mention the possibility of that. Hopefully the OP will clarify and confirm that it's just something they do with Goth, in which case, great. GalaGirl has already made some helpful suggestions of how to redirect that attention in a positive way, and it's probably nothing more than confusion of the 'what's Mum's partner's relationship to me' ilk.

ETA: I should clarify that the girl I was talking about was emphatically *not* healthily attached and bonded to her own parents, and *this* was largely why she was latching on to literally anyone who even remotely crossed her path. This aspect doesn't seem true of OP's relationship with her kids (although maybe a little with their biological father?) so it's probably all fine.
 
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I'm not getting this idea from something dumb like an attachment parenting handbook or anything.

You and I have some major differences in what we consider "dumb" parenting, but I see your point.

We're all just tossing out our best guesses from afar, but as I see it, the only problem with the OP's situation is that the parents are modeling competition and fear. And that the kids are just following mom's lead by loving the boyfriend. And that the mom probably allowed the boyfriend to be around her kids way too soon. That her five year old would grow very fond of the boyfriend, enough to want boyfriend to be "dad," just says to me that the five year old's instincts are in perfect working order. He pays close attention to the signals of his parents and he loves with an open heart. Nothing at all wrong with the children here and focus on changing the childrens' behavior & feelings just deflects the real issue, which is the adult dynamic.
 
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As I understand it, and I may or may not be right, social workers see red flags when kids are *overly* attached to others. For example, hugging a total stranger and saying "Can you be my mommy?" or climbing onto the lap of someone they don't know or only know as a professional, e.g. a social worker. Doing that, along with specific other behaviors, can be a sign of an attachment disorder, something that often indicates abuse and can lead to serious behavioral problems.

(I realize I'm saying what some of you already know... I'm also trying to make sure I'm understanding properly.)

But having worked with kids of all ages from 3-18 over my career as a teacher, I would question whether there's something inherently unhealthy about a child forming a close attachment with an adult who is a large part of their life, particularly an adult who is obviously close to the child's parent(s). I had a 12-year-old student from a healthy home tell me he wished I was his "second mom"; I had a kindergartener who told me she loved me and all of her teachers.

Goth is a big part of the Monkeys' lives. Kids notice things, so they've almost certainly noticed how close Goth is to their mother. But also... even though they still have a good connection with their father, Daddy and Mommy don't live together anymore. From what I've read--and what I experienced as a single mom--it isn't uncommon for a child whose parents are divorced to try to match up their parents with new partners, because they want to have two parents living in the same home. Even if it isn't their two "real" parents. The Monkey's comment that he wishes Goth was his daddy might be nothing more than a young-child way of saying "Mommy and Daddy aren't together anymore, and I miss having a daddy in my house."

I wouldn't tell him it's disrespectful to his dad, though. I'm not sure how much children that age understand about respect, and he might not be able to understand what he did wrong. Instead, saying something like what others have suggested, or something like "I'm glad you like Goth so much, but it might hurt Daddy's feelings if he heard you say you wish Goth was your daddy, so I would like it if you didn't say that" might be a better way to get your concerns across.
 
As I understand it, and I may or may not be right, social workers see red flags when kids are *overly* attached to others. For example, hugging a total stranger and saying "Can you be my mommy?" or climbing onto the lap of someone they don't know or only know as a professional, e.g. a social worker. Doing that, along with specific other behaviors, can be a sign of an attachment disorder, something that often indicates abuse and can lead to serious behavioral problems.

Yeah, indiscriminate attachment is a red flag for Reactive Attachment Disorder, and that's one of those "trending" diagnoses right now...

But indiscriminate in that context really means kids who see no difference between mom and stranger when it comes to seeking affection or care. That's very different from a kid who has a normal bond with his mom, and is *also* bonding with a family friend. Some level of attachment to adults who are around is normal and healthy - to be honest, as a professional, I'd be more concerned about a young kid who *didn't* bond with an adult who's providing care and affection regularly.


But having worked with kids of all ages from 3-18 over my career as a teacher, I would question whether there's something inherently unhealthy about a child forming a close attachment with an adult who is a large part of their life, particularly an adult who is obviously close to the child's parent(s). I had a 12-year-old student from a healthy home tell me he wished I was his "second mom"; I had a kindergartener who told me she loved me and all of her teachers.

My neighbor's little girl is forever asking me to be her second mommy. My friends kids used to like to pretend I was their mom when I took them places. That's just... Kids.

I would pay attention to how the kids handle it when Goth is not there - do they act out? Do they accept comfort from mom and dad and other caregivers? As long as kids have stable, healthy, competent caregivers, they can usually bond with new people appropriately (and follow the cues of their caregivers on what that means). It's the kids who don't have a stable, loving, healthy bond with emotional caregiver(s) who are at high risk of RAD/ attachment issues.
 
I standardly struggle with Depression, anxiety, and mania. I KNOW that I'm not at MY "normal" level of functionality. I realize I over reacted, and honsrtly, I was in a manic/anxiety panic when I posted this.

Thank you all for your feedback.

I used to raise eyebrows when ever single parents have their new-ish SOs around the kids "too soon." If the people are totally new and unknown factors, I still totally stick to "get to know the person(s) first, before they meet the kids.

For me, everyone that I've dated since I left Daddy was a friend first. I don't feel it's right to boot someone from my kids' lives because their title shifted from "friend" to "lover" whether intentional or not. That seems like it would reinforce the "grownups you care about can up and leave" abandonment issues I've struggled with my whole life.

Fortunately, with only a couple exceptions, I'm friends with most of my exes. So while former lovers aren't as present after the relationship ends, they still pop in on occasion, which I hope gives some sense of perpetual caring. similar to relatives who aren't seen as often due to distance, but are fun to see when they are around.

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I absolutely still have a LOT to learn, in all aspects of life. I personally am not a stable and well adjusted person. I try hard to give my kids more stability than I have, but I fail often.

I have to hope the people who know me in real life (the ones who tell me I'm doing a good job and my kids are doing well) know what they are talking about. I can see every time I visit friends' kids that mine are more chill and obedient than most of their peers, but we have power struggle behaviors and I have trouble with trying not to feel like a complete and total failure. **Hey look, this is "my shit"! I try hard not to put it on my kids!!**

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I have been half-withdrawn from everyone except Goth and Sunshine lately. I'm feeling very overwhelmed with trying to figure out what my choices are and what is best, in many areas.

Monkey1 has had 2 appts with specialists recently, in offices he's never seen before. He affectioned on the female nurses, and not the male doctor, or the female admissions personnel. He has a lot of affection for the female adults at school (teacher, aide, neighboring teachers).
They both show affectioned to "grandfather" type persons at my Grands' church.

Maybe they just happen to know who needs a hug and open up to them. We have had a couple concerning moments where Monkey1 was too trusting of his surroundings,(ex: we were at a public park and Monkey1 sees a car park there, runs up to say "hi". cue anxiety!!) so we have had to start informing them that there really are "bad guys" outside of movies and tv shows, so they need to make safe choices.

Not really sure what to do about this ATM. or if it's just a part of them growing up and doesn't need "correcting" so much as "understanding guidance."

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Thank you again.
 
I think I understand. Just let us know if we can help! if you have any more questions or anything like that.
 
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