One partner decides, the other makes a choice

[Kaycee]

Please be patient, new to forums and all!

M- My only partner, lives with A, primary and B, secondary.
We are egalitarian, just use those terms. I'm tertiary.
Here's the issue, I apologize if I missed anything while searching by the way.
Around the time I met M and got involved, he had split with an ex-C (they have a child, she's married and her husband raises that child as his own) she was with someone else. She didn't want anyone to know the child was not her husbands, so M had no relationship with the child.
Unbeknownst to his existing relationships and me, he had begun to see her again. There were consent violations all the way around, lies of omission and spoken alike.

A and C had several falling out in the past. Because of that, A chooses to not have a relationship with C. B has never and won't meet or get to know C.
M wanted me to meet C and get to know her. This was during the time I was unaware of the cheating and consent violations. Meeting her was difficult because of some snarky comments she had made via social media to me. M had also confided some things about C that made me uncomfortable in getting to know her. I studied up the Jealousy workbook, a few others and got myself set to meet her.
It started well, then there were little passive aggressive comments and gestures. I caught on to a series of lies and saw a pattern. Over the next month in texting with her it became hardly bearable. She's toxic and dangerous. I won't go into details, let's just say there isn't enough proof for a restraining order.
I brought these issues up to M and explained why I couldn't be in a relationship with a toxic meta. He was very upset and decided that due to the consistent problems between her and the 3 of us since they became open about the relationship, he ended the relationship.
He gave a lot of very valid reasons to end the relationship the day I brought His belongings to him. Basically, he said the right things, talked to A and B, broke up with C and asked if I would give him another chance.
I did.
Since then, he said I had given an ultimatum. C also refers to it as an ultimatum. It wasn't. I was done. I said my peace and left with no intention of going back. He says he broke up with her for me, he felt he had to choose. Although the reasons he gave the day I had left are all true and valid, he wasn't ready to end that relationship yet.
He was specific in saying he wasn't doing it for me that day. That he could see the things she does are hurtful to His relationships and to Him.
If I had known then that I was the reason I wouldn't have given him another chance because I knew he would blame me.
We haven't rebuilt the trust that was lost either.
Cut to now, she is insistent he has a relationship with the child. IMO it should have been that way, but nevermind that. She uses the toddler to get extra time, threatens child support and relocation, all manner of manipulations.
He does want to see the child and be known as the birth father, I'm happy for that.
When C doesn't get her way she lashes out in hateful and hurtful ways. M is afraid of what she will do, he also still has feelings because the relationship didn't run its course. He agrees, the course would be the end of his existing relationships, he's in a tough spot.
I want to be here and be supportive. My child is now an adult and I've been on all sides of the spectrum and have the wisdom of hindsight. I love M. I love His family and seeing them together.
The way I see it is, he chooses whether he wants to have that relationship again and I choose if I stay/emotionally detach. He sees it as he can't have that relationship because then we lose ours.

My question is, have you ever had to choose one partner over another? What criteria did you use to make that decision? Have you had a toxic partner and if so how did they effect your other relationships? What did it take for you to see the relationship was unhealthy and move on?

 

[Ravenscroft]

Wow -- M's real name doesn't happen to be "Dan"...? I saw almost exactly the same scenario play out back in 2003 with a guy I know. In his version, his A found a new Dom, spent months turning his girlfriend AND his two subs (& dozens of their friends) against him, & one day they all left & in fact got him tossed into jail for a few days even though he never lifted a finger against ANY of them.
________________

Differing terminology, perhaps: to me, you DID drop an ultimatum. For the record, though, I don't see anything inherently WRONG with ultimatums, rather how people (particularly those who use 'em) expect it to work. Often, it's empty bluff: they confront with something like "I've already thought about this enough, there will be NO discussion, choose one or the other RIGHT DAMN NOW" then get all upset &/or whiny when their adversary doesn't pick the right one.

You were pressed into giving him an ultimatum -- & if it went the way you describe, the choices were reasonable, & you were accepting of either. There's nothing at all wrong with that.

You've painted your master as a whiny weed lacking in self-discipline & actively seeking to be "topped from the bottom." "M is afraid of what she will do" -- well, DUDE, then he can call the cops, call Child Services, get a restraining order, get a therapist... geez, but STOP letting him make other people responsible for HIS choices.

After M did his song-&-dance "apology," & ran this past A & B, where did those two go? How do THEY feel about C's insistence that M is suddenly The Baby Daddy (& thus by implication attached to her)?

My guess is that M will let this drama play out until someone gets serious & cuts him loose (& then he'll be able to demand sympathy). In C's mind, this melodrama makes HER the center of attention, so she has zero reason to cease; I figure that though M isn't half so much a flaming nutball, it makes him feel more important -- stop feeding that, & you'll be happier, whether you remain or go.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle.

I have problems with initials so I will give people generic nicknames, ok? You change them to something else if you like. I am happy to go with whatever you pick.

I could be wrong, but long story short?

• You, Apple, and Banana are Mango's partners.

• Mango cheats on his poly agreements and chooses to have an affair. Mango does a lot of poor behaviors -- consent violations all the way around, lies of omission and spoken alike.

• He chooses to take up with his toxic ex Carrot as his cheating affair partner, and now that it is out, he wants everyone to be pals.

• On top of that, Carrot is so toxic, you would get a restraining order if you could! Since you cannot get one in order to be free of this crazy, you decide to break up with Mango and return his things.

• Since his (trying to turn his cheating affair into a relationship) is making waves with all three of his established partners, Mango chooses (to dump Carrot.) He chooses to (ask the three of you to remain in his poly network now that Carrot is gone.)

• You agree to get back together.

• Now Mango is blaming you for HIS choices. He still wants to be with Carrot. Which is fine with you -- go be with Carrot. But he doesn't want that -- he wants to be with Carrot AND you. When you prefer to recuse yourself from a weird situation. Carrot is still around.

• If you had known he was going to be blaming you and going on and on about Carrot, you would not have taken him back.

If that is the story?

Break up with him again and this time stay broken up. Too much crazy, too much drama. And with you gone he can just make his choices with nobody to blame but himself.

My question is, have you ever had to choose one partner over another? What criteria did you use to make that decision? Have you had a toxic partner and if so how did they effect your other relationships? What did it take for you to see the relationship was unhealthy and move on?

Yes. I have had to make those kinds of choices. If I were in your shoes?

MANGO behaviors themselves seem toxic to me. Just that maybe you don't notice it because of the super mega Carrot toxicity.

I would not choose to stay with a partner (Mango) who cheats on previous agreements, lies, brings toxic people around (Carrot), and blames me for his choices. That behavior is enough for me to see that the relationship is unhealthy and I am best moving on.

• I would have no interest in teaching Mango how not to be toxic in his behaviors.
  
• I would have no interest in teaching him how to be honest and not lie or how NOT to make agreements he cannot keep or has no intention of keeping.
  
• I would have no interest in teaching him how to spot toxicity in others so he stops picking out people like Carrot to date.

I am not put on this earth to be Mango's "teacher" or "life manager" or "life raft."

So I would walk away. Too many deal breakers / strikes for me already:

• Mango cheats on agreements
• Mango violates consent
• Mango does lies of omission
• Mango picks toxic people to date and wants ME to be "friends" with them
• Mango blames me for HIS choosing to end it with Carrot. (When if he did not want to end it, he could choose not to.)

Who is picking Carrot out? Mango is. And who is picking out Mango to be with? Me.

So my solution would be for me to STOP picking Mango out and get me away from the wacky so I can live free of shenanigans.

That is what I would do. That is what I suggest you do. You were breaking up with him already. So... break up and let it be broken up.

Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

Interesting that you haven't mentioned any pluses about being with M., only minuses. Personally, I couldn't stomach anyone who cheats on me, lies to me, blames me for his choices, and brings this sort of high school drama into my life. I disagree with the notion that you gave him an ultimatum - he could've continued seeing C. You didn't "make him" choose, even if that were possible. You simply informed him of what you could not allow in your life and ended it. Your big mistake was to take him back right away, before he proved himself worthy of your trust. Having done that, it looks like was an ultimatum. But it doesn't matter anyway. The point is, if I were you I never would've gotten back together with him because I am worthy of a respectful, honest, adult relationship and he doesn't seem capable of that. What kind of relationships do you want and feel worthy of?

DTMFA!

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Since then, he said I had given an ultimatum. C also refers to it as an ultimatum. It wasn't. I was done. I said my peace and left with no intention of going back. He says he broke up with her for me, he felt he had to choose. Although the reasons he gave the day I had left are all true and valid, he wasn't ready to end that relationship yet.
He was specific in saying he wasn't doing it for me that day. That he could see the things she does are hurtful to His relationships and to Him.

What utter nonsense. They can't retroactively declare that a previous decision you made was actually an ultimatum based on some other choice he made after the fact, regardless of what additional choices you made based on his reaction.

So that's one thing.

Then there's this whole kid business. Yech, forget that.

And what the fuck is this "I'm tertiary, she's secondary, she's primary, but they're just names we're not hierarchical" bullshit? Is that some line he's feeding you? Because no one who isn't hierarchical uses that terminology so emphatically.

Anyway, so you're supposed to have given him an ultimatum, but you're supposed to be the submissive, so how does that work exactly? What kind of so-called Dom allows his submissives set the tone of five people's relationships like that? You give your submissives the terms, you do some negotiating within the parameters of the binary relationship, and then the submissive ultimately takes it or leaves it. On what planet does a submissive have the authority to determine to what extent the mother of the Dom's child can be in his life?? smh.

 

[Kaycee]

Thank you all for your responses!
Ravenscroft, it does seem that I've painted him as weak and whiny. That gives me something to think about.
I don't hold himy blameless, I don't put all the blame on Carrot either. Thank you Galagirl, I'm sticking with your names. I blame myself for not seeing it for what it was sooner and getting out. His name isn't Dan, lol. Apple and Banana are still with him. SinCeleste they've known Carrot for a few years and her ways, they're relieved she's not around right now. I think that's their focus. She is going to pull the kid card every chance she has and we all know she isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. I think you're right that Mango is going to want to see how it plays out. I think it takes the responsibility off his shoulders.
Galagirl- story is correct. That's the struggle I'm having right now, to just get out of the way. Carrot has that black hole presence, the one that sucks the life force and energy from the room. The discontent and negativity is palpable. Even when I was allowing her to contact me it was draining. Fingers crossed, she has stopped.
I cant figure out if he sees her manipulations and allows them or doesn't see them. She has a way of gaslighting me through Him that makes me feel physically ill.
I know I made a mistake going back so fast. This last week I've had some time to reflect on his actions as a whole and started making lists of behaviors. He could be just as toxic as Carrot.
Nycindie- There are are a plethora of pluses. I'm in love with him, I do have a connection with him I've never felt anything like. Sex is off the fucking chain, we always have fun, we have similar interests and interesting debates. We balance each other, his kids are amazing, Apple and I have amazing friend chemistry and I love the compersion I feel when I'm with them, especially when the kids are around. Banana tolerates everyone else's presence in his life, she's another story, she's not intentionally out to hurt any of his relationships though. She has some shit to work through as far as poly goes. She's smart and really funny and makes him happy. I want genuine, honest relationships. I want to be happy and feel secure. I believe I'm worthy of being lover because I love fiercely.
SchrodingersCat- The terms are used loosely, in part for my benefit perhaps. That's how he explained his poly to me. This is my first rodeo with polyamory. Now, I think more along the lines of having central relationships.
The ultimatum word being thrown at me hit me like a truck. My intention was to go and not come back. After he broke it off, community action between myself, Apple and Banana got much better. I went over and we all sat together and talked and it felt really great! We came together to be supportive of him and comfort him. That also felt really great.
I don't understand his line of thinking. I don't know the answer to that.
We were working on rebuilding trust when Carrot took her last jab at me. That was what broke me. As far as consent is concerned,
I wouldn't have seen him in the first place had I known she was still around.
As far as authority over relationships and kids go, I Know! Wtf?!
I have a lot of thinking to do....

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Kaycee,

To me it sounds like Mango punished you for getting back together with him. Which I think is a good reason to break up with him again and stay broken up, or at least stay broken up for a year or so before considering getting back together. But, it seems like you're not ready to break up with him right now, perhaps never will be or not for a long time.

Have I ever had a toxic partner? You could say that; my "partner" was the church. To which I stayed faithful long after it had worn out its welcome with me. It took a combination of serious upheaval in my life, plus unbelievably awful treatment by rank-and-file members and leaders, a lot of it, before it dawned on me that I was done. At that point, I insisted that my name be removed from the roles of the church, and never looked back.

But that was a once-in-a-lifetime decision. It is hard to get away from something that sucks you in like a black hole.

Maybe you'll make your once-in-a-lifetime decision if things get quite a bit worse. Right now it sounds like you are mostly seeing the positives of staying, and I'll support your decision no matter what it is. I know how difficult it can be to choose.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Tinwen]

Kaycee, I am entirely with Galagirl. You could dump a "tertiary" partner who lies to you.
If you don't want to/can't? You could at least draw a strong line between you and Carrot. No direct contact, no indirect contact through Mango (you won't listen to anything he has to say about her - exept perhaps for sexual health updates), you expect him to leave her completely out of his relationship to you. If any of them breaks that boundary, you have one more reason to break up.

You've painted your master as a whiny weed lacking in self-discipline & actively seeking to be "topped from the bottom."

On what planet does a submissive have the authority to determine to what extent the mother of the Dom's child can be in his life??

I didn't notice there was any DS dynamics mentioned in the original post. Even if, I think it can be left out of the picture.
Personaly, even though I am definitelly sexually submissive, and even submissive in the relationship to some extent, I certainly expect to have my say in big things that affect my relationship, just as I would have if I was vanilla. And I definitelly have the last word if I want to leave.

 

[GalaGirl]

Carrot has that black hole presence, the one that sucks the life force and energy from the room. The discontent and negativity is palpable. Even when I was allowing her to contact me it was draining. Fingers crossed, she has stopped.

Sounds like a super unpleasant person to be around.

Even if Carrot tries to contact you? You do not have to answer. Block her phone number/delete her from your facebook/whatever else you need to block so you are free from contact.

She has a way of gaslighting me through Him that makes me feel physically ill.

Then your problem is not Carrot behavior. Your problem is Mango's behavior of (repeating stuff Carrot says to you.)

When Carrot does whatever gas lighting doom thing? And she wants him to pass the doom message on to others?

• Mango could say something like "No, thank you. I do not want to be your doom spreader. You could talk to people directly yourself instead."
  
• Mango could NOT agree to become her accomplice and spread the doom for her.

If Mango is choosing to be her doom spreader? That is MANGO's choice and his doing. He said "Yes, I agree to be your doom spreader" and he's off spreading it on you.

Rather saying "No, I don't want to be doing that."

I know I made a mistake going back so fast. This last week I've had some time to reflect on his actions as a whole and started making lists of behaviors. He could be just as toxic as Carrot.

I hope you finish your assessment and look at the list you make of Mango behavior. To me it sounds like Mango could be just as toxic as Carrot.

You wanted to break up. You seem to regret taking him back prematurely. So... I hope you look at that list of Mango behaviors you are making and it reaffirms to you that it is healthiest for you to leave this mess behind.

Just go and not come back.


Galagirl

 

[vinsanity0]

My question is, have you ever had to choose one partner over another? What criteria did you use to make that decision? Have you had a toxic partner and if so how did they effect your other relationships? What did it take for you to see the relationship was unhealthy and move on?

I did chose my wife over a partner who wanted me to leave her. To be fair, that partner wasn't really poly. After telling me she was in love with me, she told me she couldn't be second to anyone. It felt like an ultimatum. It was an ultimatum. The difference between you and her is she had not made up her mind to leave. Ultimately we settled into something more casual.

Whether or not a relationship is healthy really has nothing to do with how that partner affects the others because I don't do poly that way. I prefer to keep everything separate. The toxic things that would affect my relationship would be things like jealousy and drama. Cheating does not enter into it because I don't need to be informed of who or when a partner is dating. My partners will never have a say in who I date. Even my wife and I didn't have veto power over each other.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I didn't notice there was any DS dynamics mentioned in the original post. Even if, I think it can be left out of the picture.
Personaly, even though I am definitelly sexually submissive, and even submissive in the relationship to some extent, I certainly expect to have my say in big things that affect my relationship, just as I would have if I was vanilla. And I definitelly have the last word if I want to leave.

She's changed it now, but she originally had Mango labelled as her Master in her signature with herself as tertiary, Apple as primary, and Banana as secondary. I don't emphasise that to make her look bad or anything (I notice it's been changed now), but rather because I feel these terms were thrust on her by someone who's trying to pin her in a box and use gaslighting to make her think it's her crazy. I just don't trust someone who says we're all equitable, but you're the tertiary.

Sorry, my tongue-in-cheek didn't transcribe very well... I certainly didn't mean to imply that submissives don't have a say in big things in their life. More that... even setting aside OP's claim that she didn't coerce Mango's decision... Carrot's accusation doesn't even have internal logic. She's claiming that someone whom Mango has labelled as Tertiary (supposedly for "clarification" but I still call bullshit and think he's gaslighting OP with that whole angle) is in a position to determine whom Mango dates, and you might even say to determine his access to his child given Carrot's threats if she's cut out. I, like OP, maintain that she's only in a position to dictate whom she herself dates, and she exercised that right by leaving. Given the side of things presented, I just don't buy it.

 

[Ravenscroft]

I didn't notice there was any DS dynamics mentioned in the original post.

Really. Huh.

She, A, B & C, their SO as "M" & that doesn't leap out at you...? And her original (before editing) signature said that "Mango" a.k.a. M is her freakin' MASTER??????? Jeeeeeezus spare me...

Even if, I think it can be left out of the picture.

Okay, willing to go with that.. except WHY -- EXACTLY do you believe that makes any sense at all? As in, please state WTF your rationale is behind this statement. The amount of control IMPLICIT in a d/s relationship has a teeeeeensy little bit of effect, right...? Or is YOUR definition of "d/s" hugely different from mine...?

As stated previously:

Carrot's accusation doesn't even have internal logic.

Somethng crazy remains FUCKING CRAZY, okey-dokey pokey?

Wow...

 

[vinsanity0]

Okay, willing to go with that.. except WHY -- EXACTLY do you believe that makes any sense at all? As in, please state WTF your rationale is behind this statement. The amount of control IMPLICIT in a d/s relationship has a teeeeeensy little bit of effect, right...? Or is YOUR definition of "d/s" hugely different from mine...?

That is highly likely since power exchange dynamics vary widely among, well, EVERYONE. There is no 'implicit" amount of control in a D/s relationship. It all depends on the people involved and what they have negotiated.

 

[Tinwen]

She's changed it now, but she originally had Mango labelled as her Master in her signature...

Sorry, I didn't see that. Thanks for clarification, your explanation makes some sense to me, I read it wrong.

The amount of control IMPLICIT in a d/s relationship has a teeeeeensy little bit of effect, right...?

I was willing to let DS out of the picture, because
1) I didn't see the signature
2) she didn't emphasize it at all in her post
3) she's demonstrated her willingness to do big decisions (dumping him) without asking for permission
4) the dynamics is perfectly crazy, and you don't need ds in the picture to see it.
I take the point that implicit control can have an effect.

 

[FallenAngelina]

What did it take for you to see the relationship was unhealthy and move on?

My questions to myself would be:
What will it take for me to see my part in this hornet's nest? Why am I choosing to live my life this way? Why am I even here? What can I learn about myself in this situation so that I can make better choices from now on?

I'd also start an education campaign for myself and learn all I can about the elements that make for a fulfilling D/S dynamic. I'd seek out others that inspire, give me a sense of empowerment and have experience. I'd make use of the vast resources on the internet if I didn't know anyone in person. I'd look for positive and strong role models and learn from people who have happy, healthy, mutually supportive and loving D/S relationships themselves.

 

[Kaycee]

As it stands right now, they aren't together. It wouldn't be unreasonable to be concerned he's just hiding the relationship or stringing her along. I haven't regained the trust I once had. Everything did happen much too quickly after their breakup. I acted out of emotion.
If He decided to become involved with her again, I can't set a boundary with the hope she would respect them, she ignored my previous boundaries anyway. My boundary is - no relationship where a meta is toxic/hurtful.
The dynamic is M/s, which makes this situation all the more difficult. That dynamic won't be possible if they see each other again. The relationship would be casual at best, to be honest, I don't even know if that would work because I've never had a casual relationship. I also don't know how I would be able to emotionally distance myself from him. He also insists he doesn't want our dynamic to change, or me to leave the relationship.
I was angry with Carrot over some things that weren't her fault. She wasn't my partner. I've come to terms with that and looking back I see clearly the mistakes he made.

 

[Kaycee]

I over edited my signature. I also wasn't clear in my role.
This is my first D/s and poly, so I've learned everything by reading books and blogs and going to poly meet ups.
He hasn't read the books yet, I have hope that will help. There was no actual negotiated poly when I came into the picture. There are labels here and there, basically it was an open relationship with long standing partners. Very confusing.
As to the dynamic, I've read a lot about that. I take it seriously. What led up to me "slipping my collar"?
A couple months of getting to know Carrot, discovering the lies, some things shoved in my face, by her, and Him lying to me.
Before he admitted the relationship with her, things were great. The best, most happy relationship I've ever had. Now I know, it wasn't real because he had been lying to me. So I questioned everything. The communication which I once thought was so great had just been lies.
So how do I get him to open up without feeling I'm invading privacy and Crossing the line? I don't know.
I don't know how to rebuild trust in this dynamic.
I don't know what I can ask of him.
It's like I have to think of poly separate from the dynamic because this is still a relationship. I'm still a person with feelings.
I don't and wouldn't tell him who he could and could not see. I want his child to know who he is.
All I can do is set boundaries for my needs in a relationship. I know what I need to be happy. I cant set rules, I don't tell him not to see her. He knows if he wants to be with her, he is free to make the choice.
From there I can make a decision if I will be able to stay as involved as I am.
M/s only worked well when I really trusted him.
I have no contact at all with Carrot. She is blocked from being able to contact me, I wouldn't put another sock account past her though. He doesn't speak about her to me, on one hand it's great because things have been good the past few weeks. On the other it feels like he's holding back information. As the Master, it's up to Him to tell me what he thinks I need to know.
Where do my relationship rights fit in with my dynamic?
No fucking clue.
Sorry for the confusion by the way.

 

[GalaGirl]

If He decided to become involved with her again, I can't set a boundary with the hope she would respect them, she ignored my previous boundaries anyway. My boundary is - no relationship where a meta is toxic/hurtful

I think boundaries are not for other people to respect. They are for YOU to design, and then for YOU to respect and obey. They have consequences that YOU can do.

If my boundary is "I do not loan things to careless people. I stop loaning if my things are not respected." When I loan someone my vacuum cleaner and they return it broken? They do not offer to repair or replace? The action I can do is that I STOP loaning things to that person. When they ask me for something else, I can say "I'm sorry. I am not willing at this time." My boundary tells ME what to do. I stay safe from more of my stuff being damaged.

Your current boundary at this time is "No relationship where a meta is toxic/hurtful." As stated that is not a boundary to me. It is not written in "I statements" and it does not have a consequence that YOU can do clearly laid out.

I don't tell him not to see her. He knows if he wants to be with her, he is free to make the choice. From there I can make a decision if I will be able to stay as involved as I am.

Since you do not trust him, you suspect he is witholding information, he has done lies of omissions in the past, and he tells you he doesn't want your dynamic to change, or you to leave the relationship? How likely is it that he will honestly tell you that he is seeing Carrot again? When the likely result is that you will leave and he prefers you stay right where you are?

How likely is it for him to tell you lies/stories and keep on seeing her on the side?

I would guess not so much on the truth telling and highly likely on continued shenanigans.

So how do I get him to open up without feeling I'm invading privacy and Crossing the line? I don't know.

You could ask whatever it is you want to know. But you cannot make him be honest and forthright. You cannot make him treat you the way you want to be treated in this relationship.

If he doesn't meet your personal standards? You could sever ties because he doesn't make the cut.

I don't know how to rebuild trust in this dynamic.

Trust building is a two way street. If he's not holding up his end of it? It's not gonna happen. You cannot hold both ends of the stick.

You also cannot trust him if he does not apologize, make amends, and actually CHANGES his poor behaviors. If it is same old song, different day? You are best off NOT placing your trust in him again. Then you know how to behave around him because he is an untrustworthy person.

You steer clear. If you bump into him by accident you are "stranger polite" but on guard for shenanigans and minimize interaction. (Strange polite = generic polite like you would be to a bank teller, grocery store clerk, etc. Cordial but not esp friendly or wanting to hang out with them.)

I don't know what I can ask of him.

You can ask anything you want. He is free to say "Yes, I will do that" or "No, I will not do that."

If you do not trust him to give you a straight up answer? You don't have to ask anything at all. You could simply walk away. Your new boundary could be

"I do not date toxic/hurtful people. I do not date people who pick out toxic/hurtful dating partners that will be my meta. I walk away from anything like that so I can stay safe from toxic/hurtful people."​

There's the line in the sand. And it contains what YOU can do to obey that boundary. Other people don't have to respect it. YOU do.

Galagirl

 

[Kaycee]

Thank you for that. You worded what I meant to say much better. When I initially met his partners, I wanted to know their boundaries to make sure I didn't overstep any of them. This being my first poly relationship, I want to do it well. An example is the first meeting. I wasn't affectionate with him. I didn't know how they would feel about it and I thought it was respectful.
I know boundaries are mine. I cannot be in a relationship with a person who does the things Carrot does.
As far as Mango is concerned, I don't know the truth.
The chance of "recidivism" is likely high when it comes to Carrot. It also leaves room for another, should he decide to see someone else.
I'm at a difficult crossroads. My only options are to believe he is remorseful and will tell me the truth from now on. Or walk.

 

[Tinwen]

My only options are to believe he is remorseful and will tell me the truth from now on. Or walk.

Is he showing any sighns of remorse?