Open Marriage Advice Please

[DonaldsonBry]

Hello,
I am new to the forum and new to open marriages. I’ve read some books, wrote out an agreement, went over it with the mrs. I was wondering if anyone had any tips or suggestions on how to empower and support the mrs. through this. She does not want me to touch her, she is quite angry a lot of the time and she says she is confused and upset and bitter all at the same time. She has agreed to an open marriage but when she is angry she places the blame on myself, etc.

Some background, she has had a very low or non-existent libido for about 15 years (35 now) and we’ve spent the last 15 years attempting to compensate. She complains I’m not meeting her emotional needs, so I do a,b,c and she says she will definitely be aroused if I do these things (like stay home more often, want to want to be with her,etc.) and no matter what she hasn’t enjoyed sex, I’ve been her first and only, and it has dwindled over the years. Recently we went to a sex therapist who discussed different options and after 7 months of seeing the therapist, my wife didn’t do the exercises, readings, and told me on several occasions she can not remember what the therapist said during sessions. She also said to the therapist she has never enjoyed sex and the therapist suggested she may have an aversion to it.
Eventually, I said that I would like to explore an open marriage so the pressure will not be on her to be responsible for my sexuality and she can freely explore whether she is not attracted to me, or anyone. She agreed because from the very start of therapy, we recognized that we work well together, we are good friends, and we have a child whom we both love. We like being together but over the years I’ve been struggling with lashing out over sexual frustration.

Things seemed to be going forward a bit and our therapist invited us to a softcore swingers party. She agreed to try and it broke her mind. She went to the event, she struggled to stay through it even though it was offered several times for us to leave, and she spent the next few days crying and sitting in bed. She has no past trauma or sexual abuse, It was just a big shock to her to see everyone naked (no sex). She says she is still not over it and now that I am meeting other people, she says she has no sexual interest in me, she does not want me touching her, and she wants to be alone now.
I know this will go one of two ways but I was wondering if anyone else experienced something similar or has any advice? The more I read up on open marriages and polygamy, the more I realized that I spent a lot of my years in this marriage jumping through hoops to please someone and never really thought about what I want, and I want this life regardless of whom I am with.

Thank you for reading
Bry

 

[Evie]

So, she is for all intents and purposes, asexual.
You aren't.
This mismatch causes tension.
You're happy to stay together because you are great friends and want to keep parenting together?
She has agreed you can get sex elsewhere.
She learned the hard way that she doesn't want to be involved at all.
She won't accept you touching her now (does this include a non sexual hug?)
She wants to be alone now (as in she has asked for divorce?)

You ask how to empower and support her.

To what end?
You could leave so she doesn't have to see you going out with others while in a relationship with her.
You could discuss boundaries about what she can and can't tolerate and see if you can operate within these.
You could ensure you keep it fair. If you spend time or money elsewhere, ensure she has to option to spend the same amount of time and money on an activity of her choice.

Her options are:
You think she may enjoy dating? (Maybe she could date other asexual people?)
Hobbies.
Friends.
Me time.
Ask her what else she'd like to do/have/experience.

Consider: maybe she's actually going to be fine with you being out so long as she doesn't have to know anything about it. At all.

Your options for sex are:
Sex workers
Casual sex, no strings attached
Friends with benefits
Dating with the potential to developed a second relationship.

There's probably a few other nuanced options, too.

It is unfair for her to project her distaste for sex onto you.
You've agreed to not ask her for sex, but instead go elsewhere.
She's agreed to open the marriage so you can go elsewhere without cheating.
She's dealing with the aftermath of that agreement.

After 35 years, you know better than internet strangers what types of behaviours and activities support her through things, whatever they are. What has worked for her in the past?

 

[DonaldsonBry]

So, she is for all intents and purposes, asexual.
You aren't.
This mismatch causes tension.

Yes and No, she tells me she has a high sex drive, sometimes she flip flops between not being attracted to me (as per her) and sometimes she isn't interested in anyone else. I was hoping that going forward with this would lead her to try new things and see or as she sometimes does, just bury her head in the sand.

You're happy to stay together because you are great friends and want to keep parenting together?
She has agreed you can get sex elsewhere.
She learned the hard way that she doesn't want to be involved at all.
She won't accept you touching her now (does this include a non sexual hug?)

It includes non sexual touching. Sometimes she lets me rub her feet or back but that's more of a massage thing.

She wants to be alone now (as in she has asked for divorce?)

She does not want to hang out as much. She doesn't want to divorce, as far as I know, I've asked.

You ask how to empower and support her.

To what end?
You could leave so she doesn't have to see you going out with others while in a relationship with her.
You could discuss boundaries about what she can and can't tolerate and see if you can operate within these.
You could ensure you keep it fair. If you spend time or money elsewhere, ensure she has to option to spend the same amount of time and money on an activity of her choice.

So I've already spoken to her about these options, especially boundaries and keeping things fair financially and time-wise, we made up the agreement and talked about it. To what end? I was looking for other people's opinions and experiences where they could provide some support to a partner transitioning into an open marriage to reduce her stress, anxiety, confusion, wrestling with ideas, insecurities, etc. What has worked in other people's arrangements as well.

Her options are:
You think she may enjoy dating? (Maybe she could date other asexual people?)
Hobbies.
Friends.
Me time.
Ask her what else she'd like to do/have/experience.

Sounds good, I am definitely helping her with that, she has a hard time keeping up with relationships. Could be a contributing factor to it all.

Consider: maybe she's actually going to be fine with you being out so long as she doesn't have to know anything about it. At all.

That's one big thing, currently she does not want to know any details but we have a little book to put addresses where we are in case we are lured and murdered

Your options for sex are:
Sex workers
Casual sex, no strings attached
Friends with benefits
Dating with the potential to developed a second relationship.

There's probably a few other nuanced options, too.

It is unfair for her to project her distaste for sex onto you.
You've agreed to not ask her for sex, but instead go elsewhere.
She's agreed to open the marriage so you can go elsewhere without cheating.
She's dealing with the aftermath of that agreement.

After 35 years, you know better than internet strangers what types of behaviours and activities support her through things, whatever they are. What has worked for her in the past?

Yes and No. Clearly if I've been jumping through hoops for years trying to please her and getting stuck in this cycle. We also went to therapy to try and sort it out. I don't think it is that easy because she is unsure what will ease all of this, other than time of course. Her course of action in the past has been crying and seclusion for several days until she eventually "gets over it". I was just wondering if there has been anything anyone else has found helpful in transitioning into an open marriage. I haven't been in one for any amount of years and this is new to me too regardless of how many books I read.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Bry,

I don't have a lot of suggestions, but I do recommend you keep the communication channels open with your wife as much as possible. I don't mean telling her details about what you're doing, she's already said she doesn't want to know and that is fine. But lots of emotional checkups. Find out how she's doing, what she needs. If she just needs time alone give her that. But as soon as she is ready to talk with you again, discuss things with her as much as possible. If you're talking about how she feels ... how you're both feeling ... you'll have more opportunities to brainstorm things that may help.

I know it's not much, if you'll keep us posted I'll try to think of more later.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Evie]

If crying and seclusion is a well run pattern, perhaps just let her at it?

What I learned when opening my marriage/what I'd do differently next time is to limit the amount of time I spend meeting new people/getting to know them.

 

[Dagferi]

You don't fix a broken marriage by adding partners. Unless you want to destroy your marriage further.

People are not sex toys to spice up your life. It is unfair to drag someome else into a potiental minefield. No sane women with any sense is going to want to be involved in that mess.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not a therapist but it seems like a big misstep for the therapist to suggest to a person who never has enjoyed sex and is averse to sex to go attend a swinger's party. For what purpose?

Esp when you wife doesn't seem to want to do the other exercises before that that are in the shallower end of the pool, why push her into deeper waters?

She went to the event, she struggled to stay through it even though it was offered several times for us to leave, and she spent the next few days crying and sitting in bed.

She might have gone into a bit of a shock while there. And now is mad that you didn't "rescue" her out of there or "protect" her better. Is that part of the anger?

She agreed because from the very start of therapy, we recognized that we work well together, we are good friends, and we have a child whom we both love. We like being together but over the years I’ve been struggling with lashing out over sexual frustration.

Can I ask why divorce is not a solution here? It is not 15 days. It is 15 years.

So I've already spoken to her about these options, especially boundaries and keeping things fair financially and time-wise, we made up the agreement and talked about it.

Could be a divorce agreement instead. Be fair about money and support for the spouse and child and spending time as a family and all that. Just not be married any more. That choice empowers both of you in different ways.

Because then she is free FROM sex stuff/ open marriage/poly stuff she does not want or enjoy. She doesn't even have to do the therapy she doesn't seem to want to do any more.

Then you are free TO date and explore sex/open relationships/poly with partners who DO want those things.

And you can both choose to continue to be good exes and friends who still have a chance to enjoy being together and love/raise/coparent the child. Just not be spouses/romantic partners any more. Let that stress and tension go. Because that's the part that's just not working out. You guys are not sexually compatible and it is causing a lot of strain.

It's been 15 years. Life is not a dress rehearsal. You only get the one.

I was just wondering if there has been anything anyone else has found helpful in transitioning into an open marriage.

The biggest help is for both people to really want to go there -- to having an Open Marriage.

I am not hearing a "joyous yes" for Open Marriage from your spouse. It's more like "pretend it isn't happening" in vibe and various forms of shutting down. This is high stress sounding stuff. Esp when she zones out in therapy and cannot even remember what was said. Like going into shock or whatever. I don't think this is fun for her.

Don't push her into it. Do the kind thing and end the marriage peacefully. Focus on being good exes and coparents instead. That's my suggestion. Because if you push when she doesn't want to, you risk ruining the chance to still be friends, to still be agreeable coparents, even if the spouse tie has to be cut.

Make a big enough mess? Then resentments grow, hatred sets in, and ALL ties have to be cut. Nothing can be salvaged.

It sucks for both of you and it would suck for your child if the parents cannot even stand to be in the same room together for graduations, weddings, birth of their child, etc.

Galagirl

 

[DonaldsonBry]

Thank you all for your responses, it helps to hear some advice and that people have gone through it before. I will definitely keep in mind the emotionally checking in piece and continue with that.

I don't necessarily see the marriage as broken before all of this, we had a major deficit in the sexual department and we tried over the years to compromise but it has been too much of a divide. Everything else we agree upon and enjoy each other's company a lot. We became essentially best friends.

Yeah, I really don't think the therapist saw that coming lol. Even the event she suggested was pretty risque even for the regular group. I think at first my wife was angry at me, I tried my best before, during and after to check in, ask her if she is coping well, suggest we leave, etc.

Divorce may be an option after a while, as I said before I see this going one of two ways. Divorce would be tough I think because if we don't end on good terms, she doesn't work and has chronic pain issues + she already said she can not parent our kid on her own (literally alone at times) (son is autism+non-verbal) so if things ended poorly it would get ugly real quick. Losing more than half your paycheck on alimony even while coparenting is an awful life.

We've discussed divorce and she has said repeatedly she does not want that. She still enjoys the romance and dating aspects with me but no sexual desire. Up until the party she said she doesn't mind being with me regardless so it still ends up as a difficult situation. I kind of feel like if I were to end it in a mercy divorce, that would cause more resentment from her than letting her decide that she can not do this. It is quite the pickle.

Thank you all for reading and responding.

 

[Dagferi]

Look poly destroys the best marriages. Even when both partners happily go into poly. You need a joyous hell yeah from both parties for opening a marriage to have any chance of working.

You say you marriage isn't broken but yet you say..

She does not want me to touch her, she is quite angry a lot of the time and she says she is confused and upset and bitter all at the same time. She has agreed to an open marriage but when she is angry she places the blame on myself, etc.

This is not a wife happily agreeing to help her husband get his needs met. Sounds like an angry wife backed into a corner.

She complains I’m not meeting her emotional needs

She is telling you she is not happy in the marriage. You agree to meet her needs BUT you attached a HUGE price tag.

You are not trying to develop intimacy with you wife. You want to use her needs as a ticket to fuck others not because you want a good marriage and better relationship with her.

Not very loving behavior dude.

Oh then you drag her to a therapist who invites her to attend a swingers event. Your wife did not participate in therapy. What decent therapist thought taking an unwilling participant in other therapy sessions would enjoy this. I am poly and I would flip the fuck out put int the situation your wife was put into.

Yes and No, she tells me she has a high sex drive, sometimes she flip flops between not being attracted to me (as per her) and sometimes she isn't interested in anyone else.

Guess what she is not in love with you. There are people who cannot juat have sex with someone if they are angry or hurt by their partner.

She does not want to hang out as much. She doesn't want to divorce, as far as I know, I've asked.

I bet she is financially dependant on you. Or she is scared of losing what she does have or the affect this will have on her child. So of course she says she doesn't want a divorce.

But she is screaming at you she isn't happy in the relationship. You are just not listening or ignoring it.

Her course of action in the past has been crying and seclusion for several days until she eventually "gets over it"

No she doesn't get over it. She is compartmentalizing. She is taking time to take every little piece of hurt and anger and pushing it down.

So again I reiterate your marriage is BROKEN. Now is not the time for poly or opening the marriage. You need to decide to either work on the marriage and fix it and then see if opening the marriage is possible. Or amicably work on desolving the marriage.

 

[GalaGirl]

Yeah, I really don't think the therapist saw that coming lol.

The therapist may not have seen it coming, but it is not a "lol" thing. It's a worrisome thing. Rather than lol, you might think about changing therapists. Esp when the therapist doesn't note that she's not doing her other exercises.

Divorce may be an option after a while, as I said before I see this going one of two ways.

What are the parameters for "a while?" How long is a while? Another year? More? Less?

What needs to happen so you become willing to consider divorce?

Are you clear on what those things might be?

Divorce would be tough I think because if we don't end on good terms, she doesn't work and has chronic pain issues + she already said she can not parent our kid on her own (literally alone at times) (son is autism+non-verbal) so if things ended poorly it would get ugly real quick. Losing more than half your paycheck on alimony even while coparenting is an awful life.

You could be divorced and live together still. Or live nearby. To ease finances and child care. It may mean holding off on dating other people for a while so you can change homes/apartments if you need to make some space first. Or remodel or do whatever it is you need to do/can afford to do. It might be you move out for a year post divorce to attain healing/closure on that chapter and then move back in as a roomie/friend/coparent. Or everyone moves to apartments in the same complex.

If you need ideas for how to manage that transitional time maybe forum people have some.

We've discussed divorce and she has said repeatedly she does not want that.

In my observation? Rarely do people "want" a divorce. One doesn't go for divorce like "I feel like having an ice cream. Let's get one!"

You cannot FORCE wife to share sex with you if she does not want to. And you yourself may not be all that excited about lackluster "duty" sex.

If staying like this means more "meh"? Or stress for you with no sex life if the marriage stays Closed? Or stress for her if the marriage tries to Open because she doesn't like all that Open/poly stuff? Then you could have to free both of you from the constraints of the marriage so BOTH have a chance at a different kind of happiness. And to end a marriage? One divorces.

It might be scary, but it is a giving both a chance. Rather than one or the other trying to bend themselves into pretzels.

She still enjoys the romance and dating aspects with me but no sexual desire.

And you could still date post divorce with no sex pressure if you felt like dating each other.

Up until the party she said she doesn't mind being with me regardless so it still ends up as a difficult situation.

For myself, I don't want to be married to someone who doesn't "mind being with me." I want to be married to someone who LOVES to be with me.

I kind of feel like if I were to end it in a mercy divorce, that would cause more resentment from her than letting her decide that she can not do this. It is quite the pickle.

I think her emotions are for her to process and manage. You don't have to "pre-manage" them for her.

You choosing divorce is not about what you think she can handle or not.

It's about what YOU decide you want to do in the rest of your life.

Don't rush into making any decisions. Do think seriously about divorce though as an alternate solution to pushing your wife into unwanted Open/Poly. Perhaps you can talk to therapist about this. But maybe not THAT therapist -- the one who suggested swinger's party. Try a different one.

It sounds like she hates/resents the whole consider Open Marriage thing. So I don't see where "she will resent me if I divorce her rather than her deciding to divorce me" matters. All of it is going to stink in terms of her resentment. So if she resents both options? You may have to make the choice based on other factors then.

It is not about picking out the rose smelling choice. When all choices stink? It is about picking which choice stinks LESS and/or gets you to the healing place faster so things can begin un-stink.

Galagirl

 

[Evie]

My sympathies are very much with the OP.
A sexless marriage is a huge price tag.
But divorce, under these circumstances, is definitely something to be avoided if at all possible.
She's the one that needs to step up here. Reengage sexually, or open the marriage without the emotional blackmail.
(Perhaps she might enjoy reengaging if an old dog learns some new tricks. I've seen that happen before.)
But this defacto ownership of another person's sexuality is the most disgusting part of traditional marriage. I've known many guys in this position. It's too damn common.

 

[lunabunny]

Some background, she has had a very low or non-existent libido for about 15 years (35 now) and we’ve spent the last 15 years attempting to compensate.

<<<So, she is for all intents and purposes, asexual>>>

Yes and No, she tells me she has a high sex drive, sometimes she flip flops between not being attracted to me (as per her) and sometimes she isn't interested in anyone else. I was hoping that going forward with this would lead her to try new things and see or as she sometimes does, just bury her head in the sand

Firstly, I must point out that the above statements appear to contradict each other. You say your wife has experienced persistent low libido... but when another poster suggested she may be asexual... you say your wife claims she has a high sex drive.

This doesn't make a lot of sense, but if this is so, please consider that your wife might be:

- Suffering from depression, which often adversely affects libido
- Experiencing some form of sexual dysfunction ("frigidity") caused by hormonal imbalance, physical pain, mental or emotional issues.
- Demisexual, greysexual, be on the Autistic spectrum, or some other personality type that means she only wants/enjoys sex under certain conditions.
- Have experienced or witnessed sexual abuse, violence or some other trauma that effects her desire or ability to engage in sexual intimacy.
- Have grown up in a conservative, repressive environment (perhaps religious) that has resulted in her attached some form of shame to sexual acts.
- No longer attracted to you, or in love with you in a romantic sense which affects her desire.

She has no past trauma or sexual abuse, It was just a big shock to her to see everyone naked (no sex). She says she is still not over it and now that I am meeting other people, she says she has no sexual interest in me, she does not want me touching her, and she wants to be alone now.

Are you SURE about that? It's possible she hasn't admitted to you - or even to herself - that she experienced abuse, or she might be repressing past abuse or trauma.

Because if the people at the swingers party were simply naked and not engaging in sexual acts per se, it seems like somewhat of an overreaction to "still not (be) over it" and to have reacted by forcing herself to stay through the thing, only to go home and cry uncontrollably.

Although it's possible it wasn't the shock of seeing so many naked bodies, as it was the fear of what they, and that situation, *represent* for your future relationship - i.e. the fear that she will lose you to another woman, or women, who are more sexually "free", willing and available, once she agrees to open the marriage.

She complains I’m not meeting her emotional needs, so I do a,b,c and she says she will definitely be aroused if I do these things... and no matter what she hasn’t enjoyed sex, I’ve been her first and only, and it has dwindled over the years.

Recently we went to a sex therapist who discussed different options and after 7 months of seeing the therapist, my wife didn’t do the exercises, readings, and told me on several occasions she can not remember what the therapist said during sessions. She also said to the therapist she has never enjoyed sex and the therapist suggested she may have an aversion to it.

It definitely sounds like she has an aversion to sex, to the idea and sight of nakedness - whether just with you, or in general - and that she may be clutching at different excuses such as you not meeting her emotional needs, in order to continue to avoid sexual intimacy.

Something you said ("she can not remember what the therapist said during sessions") points to active avoidance - almost like she has a mental block or dissociates during sessions - which in turn may indicate a mental or emotional disorder. Though it's possible she is using "selective hearing" and refusal to cooperate with the therapist or do the exercises, as a defence mechanism, or to "retaliate" against you for putting her in this position she so despises.

Either way, I believe your wife could benefit from therapy - not in the context of opening up your marriage - but individual counselling with the aim of uncovering the root of her low libido and aversion to sexual intimacy. She may be struggling with some physical or emotional condition, or experiencing pain, harmful thoughts or depression that you are unaware of. Her crying bouts, anger, and inability to relate to other people/make friends seem to indicate she has a hard time dealing with interpersonal relationships in general.

Eventually, I said that I would like to explore an open marriage so the pressure will not be on her to be responsible for my sexuality and she can freely explore whether she is not attracted to me, or anyone. She agreed because from the very start of therapy, we recognized that we work well together, we are good friends, and we have a child whom we both love. We like being together but over the years I’ve been struggling with lashing out over sexual frustration.

The more I read up on open marriages and polygamy, the more I realized that I spent a lot of my years in this marriage jumping through hoops to please someone and never really thought about what I want, and I want this life regardless of whom I am with.

She may have "agreed" in theory, or because she felt she had no other option. She may be feeling a tremendous weight of guilt or shame for not being able to provide what a "good wife" is supposed to - i.e. regular, fulfilling sex.

However, although she technically agreed, her reactions/actions to NOT reflect this choice. She may very well have taken your announcement that you wanted to seek other sexual partners as a rejection of her as a person, and of your marriage, rather than as a way to take the burden off her as a sexual partner.

If you are adamant you wish to pursue polyamory/non-monogamy, yet your wife refuses to cooperate with a therapist and doesn't want to do the emotional labour that'd help her make some kind of peace with opening up the marriage... then the only option I can see for both of you to get the kind of love, peace and fulfilment in life that you deserve, is to part ways.

There is no reason you cannot continue to be friends, parent together and the like if you divorce amicably in order to get your differing needs met.

 

[Dagferi]

I have a high sex drive but I didn't want to have sex with Butch for over a year. Why?

Because he would take an intimate moment and try to warp it into his kink and all about him.

From two weeks into dating I told him flat out that I was VERY vanilla in my sexual tastes. I have no urge to beat the shit out of him, humiliate him, or do any of his other kink requests with him. I actually told him flat out this was a solid boundry for me and that I was not interested. He decided that he wanted a relationship with me and that kink wasn't a need.

Things were good for a few years. Then he started pushing again. I told him flat out my boundary has not changed and he was free to search for that fulfillment elsewhere. He still kept pushing. Guess what I resented him.

I didn't trust him after that. He tried to play the victim card. He tried to emotionally blackmail me into participating. You know what happened? I felt dirty, disgusted, creeped out, betrayed, blackmailed. Just fed up with the bullshit.

I would have rather kept masturbating 4 times a day than have sex with that man. I didn't want him to touch me. I sure in hell didn't trust the man.

It took years to rebuild the relationship. The reason I didn't leave him back then was I was finacially dependant and had 3 children to think about.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Bry,

I'm hearing you say that divorce would not be a doable option for you at this time. You've tried seeing a sex therapist and that doesn't seem to have helped much. What about the idea of seeing a regular therapist? Maybe her issues around sex stem from somewhere outside of sex. I do think you need to get to the bottom of why she's so angry, confused, and bitter. Or more importantly, she needs to get to the bottom of that.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[DonaldsonBry]

Thank you everyone for your responses, it has given me a lot to think about and really re-framed this for me in a positive way.

Thank you Galagirl, I definitely asked for another therapist or referral. My hope is to find another sex positive therapist. My wife at this time does not want to see any therapist. I definitely appreciate the discussion on time frames and parameters. I think whenever I get a chance to speak with my wife about things more solidly, we can talk about how long to try this for and what would be the next steps if this is not do-able. Also answering those questions myself.

I think what I've come to terms with and discussed with her and in some part she agrees is that going back to what we were will not work. It has been years of trying new things to meet her expectations on relationships and emotions and roles with her promise of becoming sexual but the sex never came. We've tried increasing our time together, our quality, going away together, staying apart, therapy more than once, different types of romance, planning it, spontaneity, etc. I feel like the focus for years has been myself doing and her reacting. Something like a talent show where eventually I might win over the judges. Over the last few years I just kind of gave up and tried to live the role of someone in a sexless marriage to see if that could work, and I realized I can not do it.

I do like the idea of trying this style to see if we can do it, just like I've tried her style for the last bit. If it doesn't work then talking about where to go from there. She has reacted like this in the past to other life changes: losing virginity, moving in together, wedding prep, marriage in the first year, pregnancy, baby in first year; so this isn't entirely out of the norm.

I agree that there are no perfect choices, all stink but sometimes I feel like trying it the other way for a bit is giving something else a chance other than divorce which she describes as abandoning her. If she works through this and eventually doesn't want to be in a certain type of relationship with me any more then it is like a divorce anyways. Yes, this sounds more and more like a parental relationship.

Thank you Evie, I do think she needs to step up and maybe she will turn things around and start looking at other people herself and see. I don't see us re-engaging with sex ever, I would hope that she can figure out whether she is not attracted to me or to anyone (sexually). I do like that a lot of people mention a friendship emotional marriage or two people living together and co-parenting. Even financially, divorce may not be an option so co-living while co-parenting might be an option. Marriage and divorce as just processes. I can sense that some people prefer a method of cut it and move on, others are more slow to see and then mold.

So I agree Lunabunny, it is quite an odd thing. I work in mental health and am a therapist myself so I find sometimes my wife says contradictory things and I think a lot of things are said emotionally that contradict previous things. I think sometimes she is confused on how she feels about something and long standing pain/memory issues do plague her. She has seen therapists, family doctors, and psychiatry in the past ( I get easier access) and she has not had a mental health diagnosis so far. As I said before there is a bit of a parental thing going on sometimes so a lot of the household things fall on me (paying bills, sorting mail, mortage, taxes, etc.).

We've looked into hormonal imbalances, birth control issues, physical pain issues (migraines, chronic pain, fibro), all of which effect her libido. As well, through most of her dating life she never really engaged sexually with partners, I thought in her mid 20's she was starting to blossom (talk about tingling and masturbation) so I gave it a chance (we were friends before). We've tried a lot of conditions to become aroused for her, that would make up the bulk of years spent trying new things and jumping through hoops.

I am definitely still advising her to seek some therapy, she still complains of seeing all those naked images daily and can not get them out of her head.
I agree with what you are saying, we may have to part ways in some way, at this moment it may be through a slow way because she is definitely not willing to make any specific decisions and I am not going to push her either way. I know some of the advice given was to choose divorce for us but I would like to give things a try. I do not think that either case would lower the amount of stress and pain she is feeling. I do keep open communication though to keep checking in on that. Very difficult to navigate either way.

I'm sorry to hear what you went through Dagferi with your husband at the time. It is too bad he pushed you and it warped your relationship.

Thank you all for responding and putting in time, this has helped me a lot to sort out where I want to go in the future, some things to consider, some things to work out, and such. The more I read up on things and the more I get into this lifestyle, the more I'll also know if this is where I want to go or if I prefer a more monogamist lifestyle. I try to keep options open and talk about different ways we can move forward or how our relationship might look like in the future to minimize feelings of blackmail or coercion. These readings have kept me aware of the hurt that can be caused by forcing someone into something vs. taking responsibility for actions and choices in some way.

 

[kdt26417]

Just wondering how she is feeling about things at the moment? Any improvement? Is she talking much?

 

[GalaGirl]

I do like the idea of trying this style to see if we can do it, just like I've tried her style for the last bit.

No. I don't think (trying open/poly) is just like that. You and her taking extra romantic vacations, doing therapy, and whatnot does not change that the (romantic partners in the equation) are (just you and her) and it all affects only you and her.

"Trying this style" means other people are on the line because they are other romantic partners. I don't see a big line forming up to get to be your "practice poly people." Nobody wants to be some other couple's "band-aid" or "collateral damage."

People might be willing to date a person who is separated or divorced. But I don't see them lining up to date "Hi. I'm in a wonky marriage. We're open/poly newbies trying this out to see if it will fix the marriage or bust it up once and for all. Want to date me? And BTW, if we decide to repair marriage and return to monogamy, you are out the window." Honest, but not a very attractive dating offer.

These readings have kept me aware of the hurt that can be caused by forcing someone into something vs. taking responsibility for actions and choices in some way.

Glad you see that. Because this is not a "tit for tat" situation. Where you chose to try it "her way" for a while so now she's "automatically" obligated to do it "your way." Doesn't work like that.

They are two separate requests.

If she asked you to consider trying it her way? And you considered it and chose to comply? You chose it. And than was that thing then. Didn't work. Case closed.

When you ask her to consider trying it your way now? It's a new case. She can consider it and say "No, I don't want to do that."

One cannot force someone to share sex. One also cannot force someone to consent to doing open/poly with you.

She has reacted like this in the past to other life changes: losing virginity, moving in together, wedding prep, marriage in the first year, pregnancy, baby in first year; so this isn't entirely out of the norm.

That's how she's been her whole life? People have to talk her into things/drag her into it? DON'T talk her/drag her into this. If you are not getting a "joyous yes?" It's a "working no."

Don't force the open/poly thing.

If it doesn't work then talking about where to go from there.

I think if she's not up for it open/poly at this point in time? You could accept she doesn't want it.

Instead of trying open/poly marriage? Try a separation instead. You don't have to go right to divorce.

I agree with what you are saying, we may have to part ways in some way, at this moment it may be through a slow way because she is definitely not willing to make any specific decisions and I am not going to push her either way

A separation is also a slow way. You don't live together. You each put a toe into leading separated lives. The finances can remain shared. It's a slow way that allows her to be free FROM anything poly/open on her side of the separation. She doesn't have to see you dating people.

And it is a way that allows you TO explore open/poly on your side only. You don't have to try open/poly together. It's also not pushing right on to a divorce.

Could be separated for a year. Live in separate spaces. Understand that both can see other people if they want to. Or not if they don't want to. If on your side during the separation you want to explore whatever it is you want to explore? Explore it.

After a year of being separated? That's been a year's time to think.

You guys can then decide to either finish separating and finalize a divorce. Or do something else.

I feel like trying it the other way for a bit is giving something else a chance other than divorce which she describes as abandoning her.

A year separation is a chance other than outright divorce.

Divorce is not you abandoning her. She might FEEL a loss, and grieve it. But it is not being abandoned. You are still around doing the coparenting and other stuff.

It is not your job (and has NEVER been your job) to be her "life raft" person in Life.

As I said before there is a bit of a parental thing going on sometimes so a lot of the household things fall on me (paying bills, sorting mail, mortage, taxes, etc.).

Did she go right from family of origin (where the parents did all the adult chores) to marriage with you (where you do all the adult chores) with no time in between as an adult person on her own (where she did the adult chores?)

I could see where she might call that "being abandoned" because then she actually has to be doing the adult chores herself.

But really it's healthier for her to learn to stand on her own two feet, isn't it? A separation could help her do that.

If you guys stay married in the end... you could talk about that skewed division of labor thing.

I think what I've come to terms with and discussed with her and in some part she agrees is that going back to what we were will not work.

It has to be a healthier marriage than before. You both seem to agree it cannot go back to the same as before.

Galagirl

 

[DonaldsonBry]

So I know it isn’t your job Galagirl but if you can take the time I would appreciate it.

At some point,my wife and I were discussing what to do with our future. The options at the time were seperation or looking at an open marriage is the two options that we both agreed were on the table. She does not want to separate so she agreed to try the open marriage piece. She currently does not like it but said she needs time to cope and process and such. When I check in with her, she says she prefers this to seperation for now. One thing we agreed upon is that we can not go back to the way things were (monogamy).

Most of the newer partners I am meeting are aware of the shakey situation but they already have primary partners and are looking forward to the individual meet ups. This is not a bandaid for the marriage for me, again, i’m Not going back to monogamy with or without my wife

So I guess what i’m not getting is the whole forced thing. I asked her what she prefers and she said trying an open marriage as opposed to divorce and séparation, i check in regularly, and I offer a lot of support and suggest continuing with therapy, etc.

I know some of the opinions so far have been cut the chord for her. I’ve been doing things for her instead of letting her choose for a long time. I do hear what you are saying about if it isn’t a joyous hurray then it’s a slow no

 

[opalescent]

You have more options than either a separation/divorce and an open marriage. You two can choose to transition to a companionate marriage where sex between you two is over but you continue to be partners in caring for children and each other. This option does not require legal divorce. Neither of you move out. It will require a lot of thinking and being willing to go outside the norm. It’s more common than many believe as people don’t talk about it. Perhaps either of you have other relationships- or perhaps not.

You have more options than you think.

 

[DonaldsonBry]

Sorry for the confusion Opalescent, you are right. I didn’t mean to lower the options down to two. Those are some very good options.