Our poly situation (mostly pleasant and peaceful) is now presented with a quandary.

ThatGuy5

New member
I'm one of the males in an MFM V. My wife of fifteen years is the F. She's had a relationship with her other guy for several years now. We all get along well. Things were going smoothly and troublefree until a precarious situation presented itself about eight months ago, which we are still dealing with.

A little bit of background. Her other guy is also married to a poly woman. She doesn't come around much and has very little to do with us beyond situations in which we are a convenience to her. She does not have sex with her husband but only with her others. At one time she was planning to divorce him and run away with one of her other guys, but did not, I think because she found it difficult to find employment (he's pretty much the sole income earner in her life, minus her occasional and sporadic part-time gigs. Her other guys are either unemployed or underemployed generally). They have a child together. He brings their child over most of the time when he comes here, freeing her up to go places, meet new people, have fun, etc, while we help him watch their child. My wife and I seem to keep her situation stable and open-ended so she can do as she fancies, while minimizing or deflecting his discontent in his situation with her. My perception is she sees us mainly as a convenience to her - that we are here to take up the slack as far as her husband's needs which she is not interested in fulfilling. It doesn't thrill me, and seems kind of selfish, but I could live with all of that so long as my wife's other guy seemed content to endure it.

Then many months ago his wife contracted HSV2 from one of her partners. Once we found out, my wife and I immediately got tested and thankfully we were clear of any STDs. Even though he and his wife "don't have sex", there is no way to guarantee it hasn't happened or won't happen in the future, or that he won't contract it somewhere down the line from his wife or her partners. We explained to him that he needs to get tested, and that sexual contact between him and my wife will be nil or extremely limited (ie hand jobs) until then, and that once he got tested we could figure out how to proceed. Thing is, he hasn't gotten tested and acts like it isn't a big deal, thus he and my wife haven't had sexual contact. Having become familiar with his personality, I know that he's the type that pretends problems don't exist and expects them to just go away, and everyone will just forget about this. Because of his lack of testing, he and my wife have not had sex since that time. Obviously my wife and I have no influence or say in his wife's actions or lifestyle, and we don't seem to be considered a factor to her in that regard, at all.

But that's not all. His wife, who is very social and prone to attract drama, seems to tell lots of people she knows about her problem, including people who are part of large poly groups. I can understand someone needing to confide in another about their problems, and doing so with a very trusted friend, but she seems to tell lots of people. I'm not sure if she just wants attention or what. The information spreads through the rumor mill , and people assume that my wife and I also have HSV2 since we seem to be down the line from her, when we don't. I'm not currently in a relationship with anyone other than my wife. It's difficult enough for me to find a decent secondary partner without all of this. If I did find someone, I'm presented with the quandary of explaining that his wife has HSV2 even though we don't. Even if I didn't explain it, they'd inevitably hear it 'through the grapevine', and I would look like a deceptive asshole.

All of this makes me want to go back to living as monogamous. It makes my wife and I feel taken advantage of and subsequently shit upon, and I imagine how it must make her other guy feel.

I'm interested in hearing some perspectives on the matter.
 
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I've always taken a new love interest to Planned Parenthood with me. We both get tested, and afterwards we go out for a drink. :) I've been doing that since high school.

I find if I'm pleasant and helpful, I can remove some of the barriers my partner(s) have to doing chores/appointments that aren't fun. :p Sometimes it's just hard to take the first step, I guess.

If the three of you get tested, together, and have clear results that can be shared, that should help put the rumor mill stuff to rest. I would think everyone would sleep easier. :)
 
I've always taken a new love interest to Planned Parenthood with me. We both get tested, and afterwards we go out for a drink. :) I've been doing that since high school.

I find if I'm pleasant and helpful, I can remove some of the barriers my partner(s) have to doing chores/appointments that aren't fun. :p Sometimes it's just hard to take the first step, I guess.

If the three of you get tested, together, and have clear results that can be shared, that should help put the rumor mill stuff to rest. I would think everyone would sleep easier. :)

My wife and I tested together. We have volunteered to pay for his testing, and my wife said she'd go with him. We've treated the situation, and him, with thoughtfulness, and haven't been pushy - it's been eight months since we found out. His response is that he "doesn't see how it will change anything". We explained that if he does have it, he can take medication to greatly limit its ability to spread or be active, and if he doesn't have it, he can at least have some peace of mind and take necessary steps to mitigate risk.

It seems like he's just accepted it as a fact of life, as if he already has it, when in all likelihood he probably doesn't. In essence, it's almost like we're expected to just embrace the STD and think that getting it isn't a big deal, because he has no plans of changing his own situation with a woman who has it, who also seems disinterested in being with him in the first place.

As for the rumor mill... Showing test results might stop rumors in the immediate term, but so long as we're associated with her through him, we'd still be seen at best as the 'HSV2 ticking timebomb' or something, I'm sure.
 
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Honestly, I'm more concerned about his lack of regard for you and your wife's feelings on the matter than anything else. If he and his wife aren't really sleeping together then he likely doesn't have it, but I'd be in the same boat as you guys in that situation in that I wouldn't want to sleep with him unless he'd been tested. But on top of that, if he cares so little about it, even if he tested negative, can you now trust that he would tell you if he ever engaged in unprotected sexual activity with his wife before then engaging in sexual activity with your wife?

Anyone with that level of disregard for my sexual health, especially knowing that it was important to me, isn't someone I'd want to date. Which would then help to stop the whole rumor mill issue of having people assume you're bound to have it. Just my 2 cents.
 
I would also be concerned that he doesn't seem to take your worry seriously.

What HSV test did you take? Are you sure you had one? Most don't work unless there is an active outbreak. There is the Western Standard Blot test, which is a blood test but can only pick up anti-bodies. If you didn't ask for an HSV test by name a standard STI test doesn't cover herpes 1 or 2.
(sorry, there is so much bad info about herpes I like to check in about thous things. People can end up getting up in arms when they don't actually know if they have it or not)

If I was your wife I would be super hurt that my lover and partner for years wasn't willing to get tested so we could have sex again. Do you know why he is so resistant? You said he assumes he already has it... that can be a scary thought but if he does he can be on meds that help prevent the spread of it. Honestly? He probably needs more information that isn't fear based.

You guys are open, the community you are a part of is open... you need to be able to have adult conversations about STIs. As for the wife? It's probably good she's talking about getting it. There is so much pain and fear around herpes when most people have never been tested for it and have no idea if they have it or not. Hopefully her being vocal about it in a poly community will take some of the fear and shame out of it and start some investigation and conversations. I know that doesn't help you feel less exposed now.
 
I am sorry you struggle with all this domino effect stuff. I think you could sort what is "my stuff" that you have control over and what is "other people stuff" that you do not have control over. Then manage your stuff so YOU are out of the line of fire.

This BF does not care enough about himself to remove himself from a toxic and spiritually dead marriage. So I am not surprised to learn that he does not care enough about his GF (your wife) to get tested. That must be a huge disappointment to her. But it's something she has to deal with. And if she avoids dealing with it, and YOU have to deal with being married to another avoider. That seems like the bottom line here.

All of this makes me want to go back to living as monogamous. It makes my wife and I feel taken advantage of and subsequently shit upon, and I imagine how it must make her other guy feel.

TBH, I wonder if your MFM is what enables the guy to avoid dealing with his toxic marriage and avoid getting checked out for depression. So long as he has that MFM making his life just this side of tolerable short term he isn't going to be in a hurry to sever ties with his wife or seek counseling to help him get out long term. He's living day to day and he's used to being shat on by his wife. So for him, I wonder if this is just "normal life" to him. More shit. (<--- what makes that a healthy BF that your wife wants to pick HIM out? :confused:)

While tempting to blame the other wife, or the BF? They are not your problem. Your wife's behavior (of dating unhealthy, irresponsible and avoidant BF) is your problem because you choose to be with wife. She's the one picking him out. And you are the one picking her out.

In essence, it's almost like we're expected to just embrace the STD and think that getting it isn't a big deal, because he has no plans of changing his own situation with a woman who has it, who also seems disinterested in being with him in the first place.

I would highlight behavior that is happening.

  • He has no plans to end it with the wife.
  • He is not getting tested.

You don't love either of these. So you could decide stop participating in this MFM. It is not joyful for you.

Which then leaves your wife to decide if she wants to continue in this MFM or not.

And then depending on her answer on that MFM thing, you could stop participating in sex and/or marriage with her to reduce your exposure. You can only control YOUR behavior and who you choose to expose yourself to and what is acceptable risk to you and what is not. You cannot control wife's behavior, or her BF's behavior. Only YOURS.

So if the BF won't break the link to the disinterested wife and deal with his problem that his wife behaves like an ass and the marriage is spiritually dead? He's going to keep letting it float indefinitely?

And your wife won't break the link to her BF and deal with her problem that her BF is conflict avoidant and will not get tested? She's going to let it float indefinitely?

Those people can choose to keep on living that way. They are free to choose that float along way of living.

YOU don't have to choose to stay living that way. You could deal with YOUR problem -- that YOU choose to (participate in an MFM with your wife and her BF who won't get tested.) You could stop choosing that.

There's two kinds of freedom -- free to do something, and free from something.

The emotions involved may be tough to process, but you sound like you want the link to be cut somewhere, so it is basically a question of where along the chain the cut is going to happen so YOU are free from exposure risk you find unacceptable.

Does that mean the BF is going to get tested (hopefully clean and physical health ok) and begins divorce steps (emotional/mental health)? Then you are free of it.
Does it mean wife is going to dump him? Then you are free of it.
Does that mean you are going to stop participating in sex, MFM, and/or marriage with your wife? Then you are free of it.

I suggest you talk to your wife and her BF honestly and ask each what their plans are at this point in time. Then make YOUR choices from there. I encourage you to have the hard conversations you have to be having with your people. Lean into it and get it sorted one way or another. Not keep floating along with it.

Galagirl
 
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I would also be concerned that he doesn't seem to take your worry seriously.

What HSV test did you take? Are you sure you had one? Most don't work unless there is an active outbreak. There is the Western Standard Blot test, which is a blood test but can only pick up anti-bodies. If you didn't ask for an HSV test by name a standard STI test doesn't cover herpes 1 or 2.
(sorry, there is so much bad info about herpes I like to check in about thous things. People can end up getting up in arms when they don't actually know if they have it or not)

If I was your wife I would be super hurt that my lover and partner for years wasn't willing to get tested so we could have sex again. Do you know why he is so resistant? You said he assumes he already has it... that can be a scary thought but if he does he can be on meds that help prevent the spread of it. Honestly? He probably needs more information that isn't fear based.

You guys are open, the community you are a part of is open... you need to be able to have adult conversations about STIs. As for the wife? It's probably good she's talking about getting it. There is so much pain and fear around herpes when most people have never been tested for it and have no idea if they have it or not. Hopefully her being vocal about it in a poly community will take some of the fear and shame out of it and start some investigation and conversations. I know that doesn't help you feel less exposed now.

We paid for multiple tests to be done for a variety of STDs, including HSV2. Both blood and urine were taken. Here's the list of tests:

Hepatitis B Surface Antigen,
Syphilis Test (RPR),
Hepatitis B Core Antibody, IgM,
HIV-I/II Antibody,
Hepatitis C Antibody,
Herpes Simplex Virus (HSV) Type 2-Specific Antibodies, IgG,
Chlamydia and Gonorrhea by NAA(urine)

Results were negative on all the above tests.

I scored "< .91" on the HSV2 portion, indicating no antibodies nor any sign of early infection. Neither of us have ever had an outbreak, even within the past eight months of this situation. I know a certain percentage of people never have an outbreak. While tests don't guarantee someone doesn't have it with 100% surety (grounds for a kind of HSV2 hysteria), I think the odds are far in my favor considering my habits and the measures I've taken to protect myself. I'm comfortable with the results based on awareness of my own personal situation.
 
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GalaGirl,

Thank you very much for your well-thought response. It's been helpful.

The degree of patience I've shown is closely associated with the degree to which he and my wife are fond of each other. I had hoped they would take more action or figure something out earlier, considerate of my own concerns and well-being. But it's just kind of drifted on. That said, I know for a fact they have not had sex since then, and I'm appreciative of that. She is resolute in that respect, and he knows it and isn't pushy for it (yet? Supposedly his wife doesn't have sex with him, so he's eventually bound to get it from someone).

I certainly don't consider my wife to have been wholly inconsiderate in the matter.
 
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Hi ThatGuy5,

As long as your wife and the other guy don't have sex, there's no risk of spreading the virus. If they do start having sex (and I'm assuming the other guy won't get himself tested), then you need to start worrying about your own health. I don't know if that means using a condom with your wife, or not having sex with your wife at all. But ultimately only you can protect your own health, and only your wife can protect her own health.

That aside, there is the question of whether your wife should be seeing/dating a man who is so lackadaisical about his marriage, his health, and the health of his other partner (your wife) and his metamour (you). Does this HSV2 matter shed a new light on what sort of a man this other guy is? Not that you can stop your wife from seeing him, but the question can be asked in light of the situation.

Harsh situation.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
If he doesn't have sex with his wife, what are you worried about?

I take it your wife and her BF are fluid bonded?

HSV2 is fairly common so it is not the end of the world.

In the past I have been fluid bonded with two women who had it. I have never tested positive.

It's a shame your poly community engages in STI Shaming. Maybe they could have some educational events.

I think you should take into account the fact that, after several years, he is being treated as untrustworthy. That can't be sitting well with him.
 
the thing that puzzles me the most is that the BF apparrently is ok with not having any sex at all? Not with his wife and not with yours?

I fail to see what he is doing wrong here, other than not accommodating you in taking the test. It's a nuisance for sure but if he is not having sex with your wife anyway, he is not harming you by this.

You feel taken advantage of because you have to watch his kid while his wife is out having fun, but that doesn't really have anything to do with herpes does it? You could just stop doing that you know.

I think that there are far more serious issues here about the relationship between your wife and this guy, that have nothing to do with any STD.
 
Some poly people have a lot of rules, some have few.

The top rule is, protect your sexual health and the health of your partners!

Do you and your wife truly believe he isn't having sex with his wife (or anyone else)? If his wife is newly infected, and they havent had sex since, there should be little worry. But my partner and I get tested every 6-12 months no matter who else we are having sex with. And I don't mean just intercourse.

Early stages of an HSV2 outbreak can be hard to detect. There might be a tingling, there might be a dry patch that isn't obviously an outbreak. And the lesions can appear anywhere on your lower regions, not just on the genitals. It can be on the pubic mound, upper thigh, buttocks or lower back. Condoms may help. Gloves may help (for thos HJs she is giving him). But cuddling naked can spread it if it's elsewhere than on his penis or balls.

HSV2 can also appear on the mouth (and HSV1 can appear on the lower regions). So, kissing could spread the HSV2 your wife's OSO may or may not have.

Your metamour is acting immaturely. I concur with GalaGirl that this situation shouldn't be allowed to drift. And it starts with YOU.
 
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