Partner used to be poly but now too jealous

[Samphire91]

Hey all, sorry if this is confusing, I'm confused too!

So, my partner (M,34) & I (F,28), have been together for about 2 years, but were friends for a long time before-hand.

The whole time I knew him, he was my most open-minded, supportive friend. He always identified as Poly & bisexual. And was always pro-women's rights, "no-one owns you" etc. It was awesome. He was the one person I felt I could be honest with about how my mind and feelings actually worked. He was always there for me whenever I had a crappy relationship situation etc.

When we got together, we were 'poly' in mindset for a while, but then things became monogamous, so we agreed to make it officially monogamous. I had only ever had mono relationships, but we had bonded over talking about how great it was to not have to hide having crushes on other people, and over how great it would be to have a three-way relationship, and I'd told him that's what I'd wanted one day. But it would have to be someone really special.

But as we became more monogamous and eventually agreed to make it official, he started getting really jealous of other guys. To the point where I just don't have any male friends anymore, or it's on a need to interact basis.

Now he has ridiculously low self esteem and whenever I try to broach the topic of having a third partner, he always says he's 'afraid I'll think they're better and run away with them'. - I find that kind of offensive, it's like he thinks I'm making a dumb decision by staying with him.

He's my best friend and the perfect partner for me. So it really sucks that this is becoming an issue.
I'm finding that I'm hiding when I have a small crush on someone, or even when I think someone in a movie is attractive. It's ridiculous.

I have had a few stronger crushes on people too, where the chemistry is great and I'd love to spend more time with them, even just as friends, but with my partner's self-esteem, it's pretty much not possible. So I can't even explore having feelings for other people, which I think is making it worse.

Basically, I'm now lying to him. And pretending like he's the only person in the world that I think is attractive. I do think that's adding to his fears, because I am actually lying, and it's a pretty bullshit lie, given I told him that I'd had feelings for others in every other relationship I'd been in. But his emotions are so rocky that I'm scared to talk about it with him, because then he gets all weird.

I did try bringing up the poly subject with him twice now, from a more broad perspective of 'what if' or 'in the future', and he reacted pretty poorly and full of fear, like he just went onto a bunch of dating sites and started looking for people to have threesomes with. But he was only doing it to make me happy, and I could see he was scared. So I dropped the topic and haven't bought it up again.

I don't know, should I just be honest with him and tell him I crush on other people all the time, and that none of those people could replace him? Maybe if I tell him about the dozens of people I've crushed on, he'll understand that I'm still happy with him and haven't left him for any of them. I guess right now he feels paranoid (and I guess rightfully so).

Cheers for reading this, hope it makes sense :/ any advice is appreciated . As you probably can see, I'm new to actually practicing poly and how to approach things.

 

[SenatorBinks27]

This is a very tough situation. This feels to me like an amalgamation of my last two partners: Partner 1 started as openly bi and free thinking but then turned toxically jealous, and Partner 2 started poly - she was the one who opened my eyes about it! - before suddenly becoming mono with soneone else and moving away from even the friendship. Hell, I similarly had to leave Partner 1 in order to keep being friends with the eventual Partner 2 not in secret, so I'm getting wicked deja vu and heavily empathizing.

It sucks having to leave a relationship that is otherwise good and compatable, but believe me if you force yourself to hide this part of you you're just going to be miserable and possibly resentful. I think you need to stand firm and honest on your needs, that you do care about him but this is how you are and if he can't handle that then parting ways might be the best for you both long term.

I hope it works out, I really do, but a romantic relationship is the last place you should be forced to hide who you are.

 

[GalaGirl]

He always identified as Poly & bisexual. And was always pro-women's rights, "no-one owns you" etc.

When we got together, we were 'poly' in mindset for a while, but then things became monogamous, so we agreed to make it officially monogamous.

Those two do not match. Why would you agree to practice monogamy together if both wanted poly?

Has he changed his mind? Does he now prefer monogamy for himself while thinking poly for others is ok? And now his big fear is that YOU are still wanting poly and will eventually dump him?

So he acts all jealous and territorial to try to prevent it?

But then can't feel proud of that behavior, so his self esteem takes a hit?

If so? It sounds like a circle thing.

Now he has ridiculously low self esteem and whenever I try to broach the topic of having a third partner, he always says he's 'afraid I'll think they're better and run away with them'. - I find that kind of offensive, it's like he thinks I'm making a dumb decision by staying with him.

Well, if he does behavior he is cannot be proud of? He cannot hold himself in high regard/high esteem. What behavior does he do that chips away at it? Can he articulate it? Is he doing anything about it?

But his emotions are so rocky that I'm scared to talk about it with him, because then he gets all weird.

Well, since he's already being weird NOW? And you think he's gonna be weird if you are honest?

May as well be honest then so at least YOU aren't feeling bottled up. Cuz he's basically gonna be weird either way. His feelings are his job to sort out. Not yours. I can tell you care about him, but you cannot do his emotional management FOR him. That's an inside job.

Rather than drag it out? Be honest with him about the kind of relationship you want and if THIS relationship makes the cut or not right now.

• You seem to want a relationship where you aren't hiding things/lying and can be honest (Not happening here at this time.)

• You seem to want a relationship where you also spend some of your time with friends. (Not happening here if you stay home because he thinks they will steal you away. You cannot control his thoughts. You DO control how you spend your time. )

• You seem to want a relationship that is participatory and not possessive. (Kinda meh participation right now from BOTH people. He's being weird and jealous and you aren't being honest with him. How is this awesome participating?)

If something can be fixed, talk it out and fix it. Avoiding talking it out doesn't seem to be helping either of you.

If there's nothing that can be fixed and it is not compatible? And you guys worked out better as friends? Stop trying to be romantic partners if it just stresses you both out. Go back to being friends only.

Then he is free from any poly things he no longer wants (?) and can RELAX that nobody is gonna "steal you away" because the shoe has already dropped.

And you are free TO pursue poly things you do want.

Galagirl

 

[MsEmotional]

I really feel for you. If you look back though my old posts, this is similar to the relationship arc that I experienced with Ponytail.

We are still together and doing very well now, but it took a lot of me standing firm on what I wanted for myself in the face of Ponytail’s crippling depression and insecurities. It came to us being in couples therapy together and Ponytail firmly telling me that he *could not* do polyamory unless it was a closed V with me and Glasses — and me saying that I didn’t want to break up with Whiskers. Our therapist and I both proceeded with the mindset of “irreconcilable differences,” I was sobbing...but, when push came to shove (metaphorically), Ponytail realized that the very real outcome of breaking up was more upsetting than the fear of the *potential* break-up. He got his act together, expanded his social circle so that he wasn’t dependent on me, and has been dating others. 10 months later, we are able to talk more freely about our occasional insecurities and I think this is the healthiest our relationship has ever been.

All this is to say that none of that would have happened without the guidance of folks on here — many of whom were instrumental in me changing my thinking and acknowledging that I could love him and we could still be incompatible. Without me being willing to say, “I hear you, but I am not willing to do your work for you, even if that means we cannot be together,” we would not have made it to the healthy place we are in now.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Samphire91,

It seems to me that you have a decision to make about how much monogamy you can live with. Can you stand to live with only one sexual/romantic relationship? and if so, can you also stand to continue being dishonest to your partner (lying by omission) about the fact that you are crushing on other people and/or finding other people attractive?

If you can't stand to be dishonest anymore with him, tell him so. Tell him that you can't stand being dishonest and that in the future, if you're crushing on someone or finding someone attractive, you will inform him of that fact. He can make his own decisions about whether he can stand for you to be honest.

And if you can't stand to live monogamously with him anymore -- if being free to have more than one sexual/romantic partner is a must for you -- then that's what you should tell your partner. But first you have to come to a decision about what *is* a must for you. If you can stand to be totally monogamous, then you don't need to tell him anything.

It is unfortunate that he has suddenly and unexpectedly become so jealous. If he is as open-minded as you say he is, then he should easily be able to understand that his current attitude is unhealthy. He's likely to lose you, not because you like someone else, but because his irrational fears are so unhealthy for both of you.

I hope you can work things out with him.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[GalaGirl]

BTW....

Now he has ridiculously low self esteem and whenever I try to broach the topic of having a third partner, he always says he's 'afraid I'll think they're better and run away with them'. - I find that kind of offensive, it's like he thinks I'm making a dumb decision by staying with him.

He is expressing a fear. That's is about HIM. Maybe he has abandonment issues, anxiety, whatever fueling that fear.

Do not listen defensively and make it be about you "being dumb."

If YOU think you are being dumb sticking around with this -- OWN it. That is YOUR feelings/thoughts about the matter. Don't project it on to him and them get mad at him for it.

That said? I had a partner like that. I can imagine how frustrating it can be to see the value and worth in a person and how great they are and they themselves are blind to it and are too busy being their own self-bully to notice. Over time? If they don't seek help to stop beating up on their own selves? It becomes a deeper hole for them and a drag for their partner.

You cannot fill the never ending black hole with reassurances if they themselves are the ones digging the hole.

Figure out your line in the sad. Mine was counseling.

He was SO busy beating up on himself that he was not worthy and he just got "lucky" to find me, and then looking out the window guarding against whoever might come to "steal me away" that he wasn't looking at ME.

Like he wanted to put me up on a pedestal because I was so precious and then "defend" his precious from all comers. That was treating me like an object and not a person. He was also caught up in fronting -- like I only liked him for this mask or act. Actually I liked the person inside and was tired of the "class clown" act -- but he couldn't believe that. And he'd been doing the "class clown" thing for so long to cope that he didn't know how to be just himself without the jokey.

I was getting tired/lonely/bored of always reassuring and investing energy in him. But then me not getting same back and going neglected / taken for granted. I want a two-way street relationship. Not one-way street thing sucking me dry.

I told him I needed to see him working on this with a counselor so I could see that he was at least TRYING to get well and trying to own it. Because I know I cannot do the work inside of him FOR him. He had to be the one to do it. I also do not exist to be his crutch or life raft. If my value to him is to be this woobie person? That might be great for him but it sucks for me.

Well, he didn't want to do counseling. So I ended it. And it was hard not to take offense when he sadly said "See? I always knew that you'd leave me in the end anyway."

I was mad. I thought "If you always knew participating like THIS would cause a rift? And you made no effort to change your behavior? Then it's on you." And I still walked away.

I didn't ask him to get insta-well. I asked him to seek counseling. But he would NOT help himself at that time.

And I need to be with someone who WILL take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions. One cannot help being sick or having things. One CAN help if they are working on themselves or not. He was not, so it was not healthy for me to be with him.

It was a drain.

Maybe if I tell him about the dozens of people I've crushed on, he'll understand that I'm still happy with him and haven't left him for any of them. I guess right now he feels paranoid (and I guess rightfully so).

Let me ask you something. Are you actually happy?

Cuz you are posting here.

You are shrinking yourself, not interacting with friends.

You want to poly date, but are not poly dating like you want.

You are not being honest about what is going on inside you from fear of how he will take it or react or respond.

Where is the happy? Or healthy relating?

I did try bringing up the poly subject with him twice now, from a more broad perspective of 'what if' or 'in the future', and he reacted pretty poorly and full of fear, like he just went onto a bunch of dating sites and started looking for people to have threesomes with. But he was only doing it to make me happy, and I could see he was scared. So I dropped the topic and haven't bought it up again.

If you can tell this is NOT what he wants to be doing but he's gonna do it anyway from fear of break up?

Then I think the most loving and kindest thing to do may be break up FIRST.

Don't let him subsume himself to the relationship and do stuff his heart is not really into. That would be letting him hurt himself and that's not loving or kind.

Don't turn a blind eye to his suffering if he's your best friend. Do the healthy thing for both even if it is hard -- end it clean.

Stop trying to be romantic partners. Heal, and then be friends only.

Then he doesn't have to be anxious any more about a break up because it already happened. Maybe he will move on to do his inner work. Maybe he won't. But the "limbo" thing ends.

And then you don't have to be shrinking yourself or lying or anything. You too can move on. The limbo thing ends for you too.

The guy I dated above? More than ten years later he called me to thank me and to share that after other poor relationships that ended in a mess he DID finally go to counseling to work on his issues. So I told him I was glad for him and proud of him for doing the work. After making the improvements he eventually met and married his wife.

But privately in my head I thought "Told you so. You needed to work on yourself from the inside before you could finally participate in relationships as a healthy person. Something only YOU can do. Other people cannot do your inside work for you. Guess it took however many other GFs after me also getting tired of it and leaving before you decided to finally OWN it and actually do something about it."

Cheers for reading this, hope it makes sense :/ any advice is appreciated . As you probably can see, I'm new to actually practicing poly and how to approach things.

Well, this isn't about practicing poly per se. It's about being authentic and honest in the relationship you are in.

So... if you are not doing it with 1 partner? How do you figure on doing it with more than 1 partner if you do move on to poly date?

I'm not trying to be mean to you here. I'm encouraging you to be more honest and authentic in your relationship.

Galagirl

 

[Samphire91]

Update & thank you

Hi all, just wanted to say thank you for all your responses, I was pretty overwhelmed as I wasn't expecting such well thought out replies.
Apologies for the late reply! Was waiting 'til I had an outcome, but really it's an ongoing story . It's so hard to explain the intricacies of yourself and relationship to people in 10,000 characters or less

I took the pretty much unanimous advice on talking to him about it. Here's what's happened since.

I told Jim (bf) about having crushes on others at a time when I had no current crushes, no one waiting in the wings. He took it okay, but I ended up agreeing to try out some other things like random, non-emotionally connected threesomes and maybe just NSA hookups without any emotional connection. 'just so we can see how it feels seeing the other kissing/being with another person'.
We thought about it for a while but never actually ended up doing anything about it. I shouldn't have agreed to it because I don't really just want sex with people. I want relationships, or at least sexy friendships. Also I'd feel bad for anyone else getting involved in what would basically be a test run. That's no way to treat people imo .

Later on I developed a crush on someone I work with (Liam). I wanted Jim to know about it, so as soon as it became a definite crush, I told him about it.
Oh boy did he struggle with it. Every time I went to work with Liam, Jim would be jealous and worried and upset I was out having a good time.

Jim has started regularly questioning and grilling me on exact times that events happened, because he thinks I'm having an affair. Nothing I do or say seems to help either. He simply doesn't trust me, even though I have tried my hardest to be honest with him about everything & haven't really done anything to break his trust.

Over this last few weeks, the feelings for Liam have become stronger. And I decided I wanted Jim to know about that, that I would love to be in an open or poly relationship, and possibly actually pursue Liam (if he even likes me back). So that's where it's at now. Jim & I have spent the last 5 day's arguing over it. He says it would be more difficult than his last poly relationships because we live together, and because he's so emotionally (and lifestyle) invested in me. That it's not like how it was with past poly relationships because he actually cares about our life plans together. And living together makes it hard because it's so obvious when your partner is "off fucking someone else" to put it in his words. He actually seems disgusted and recoils at the idea of me being with another person .

Jim respects that I'm being honest about it. And he say's he want's me to live life to its fullest and wants to support me in that. But from his reactions so far, I don't know how things will play out. Although I would love to pursue Liam, I've decided not to do that until Jim & I come to a happy agreement. I'm not going to go out having a good time while I know he's sitting at home in utter emotional turmoil. I've even tried to compromise and offer the idea of me never pursuing Liam and just waiting to address the poly thing again when the next crush/potential lover comes along. The idea being he'd have more time to come to terms with the concept.

Still, Jim refuses to accept that I understand his feelings and emotional needs. He also thinks that I can't put myself in his position and understand his jealousy. He keeps asking me to imagine what it'd be like to be at home while I know he's off with someone else. To imagine him having sex with someone else.

And honestly, I am comfortable with that Idea. He was seeing someone else when we got together (that's what I meant by 'poly in mindset). I loved it. I loved the freeing feeling of my partner being able to get their emotional needs or sexual rocks off with someone else. It felt amazing to be able to do my own thing and know he doesn't need me for 100% of relationship needs.

We also have pretty different sex drives (he wants it more than I do) and there's been times where I'm just like 'FFS, I wish he just had someone else to go hang out with and some other partner to go have sex with because all I wanna do is chill out and go to sleep'.

So in terms of jealousy, that's where I'm at. To sum it up, there's clearly other issues in our relationship.

Those two do not match. Why would you agree to practice monogamy together if both wanted poly?

In the heat of NRE, all we could imagine was being with only each other. He said to me that he didn't want to see anyone else, and that he didn't really like the idea of me being with anyone else. And in the heat of it, I agreed. But I also followed my agreement with "Yes I know I'm feeling this right now, but given my patterns in other relationships, can we visit this idea again in the future? I know I might get feelings for other people again" So we both agreed to that clause.
Now I am addressing it, and he won't have a bar of it.
He still believes poly is great and okay for others. Just that he can't imagine sharing me with anyone else.

Let me ask you something. Are you actually happy?
Cuz you are posting here.
You are shrinking yourself, not interacting with friends.
You want to poly date, but are not poly dating like you want.
You are not being honest about what is going on inside you from fear of how he will take it or react or respond.
Where is the happy? Or healthy relating?

Not really happy, this is me trying to work it out. I've been shrinking myself more and more to try and meet his emotional needs and it never seems to be enough.

There are healthy elements to our relationship, like generally spending time together when things are good, we have the same sense of humour, interests and enjoy doing a lot of similar activities.

Jim has slowly neglected and lost a lot of his own support network or outside activities/ personal hobbies. So I feel like I've tried to fill in all his social and emotional gaps.
It's really wearing me down. I've asked him to start contacting old friends again and making new ones. I've also asked him to consider seeing a therapist. He's contacted a few friends and potential friends and that's really good to see!

Right now, I can't go and see my friends without him either joining me (sometimes it feels like chaperoning), or my phone exploding with texts from him asking what time I'll be home, where I am, asking to come out and join etc. I've completely lost my sense of self, and I'm trying to regain it. He's also lost his sense of self/ independence and I want him to regain it too.

Well, he didn't want to do counseling. So I ended it. And it was hard not to take offense when he sadly said "See? I always knew that you'd leave me in the end anyway."

I was mad. I thought "If you always knew participating like THIS would cause a rift? And you made no effort to change your behavior? Then it's on you." And I still walked away.

I didn't ask him to get insta-well. I asked him to seek counseling. But he would NOT help himself at that time.

And I need to be with someone who WILL take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions. One cannot help being sick or having things. One CAN help if they are working on themselves or not. He was not, so it was not healthy for me to be with him.

It was a drain.

This... I feel like this is something my partner would say too, because he's always bringing up the concept of me leaving him, and I constantly have to reassure him that I'm not planning on doing that. I feel like it's reverse psychology. Like, I have to defend it so much that I feel like it's my choice to stay with him. But really it's emotional manipulation.
But yeah, definitely some counseling would be good for both of us (separately and together!)

We are still together and doing very well now, but it took a lot of me standing firm on what I wanted for myself in the face of Ponytail’s crippling depression and insecurities. It came to us being in couples therapy together and Ponytail firmly telling me that he *could not* do polyamory unless it was a closed V with me and Glasses — and me saying that I didn’t want to break up with Whiskers. Our therapist and I both proceeded with the mindset of “irreconcilable differences,” I was sobbing...but, when push came to shove (metaphorically), Ponytail realized that the very real outcome of breaking up was more upsetting than the fear of the *potential* break-up. He got his act together, expanded his social circle so that he wasn’t dependent on me, and has been dating others. 10 months later, we are able to talk more freely about our occasional insecurities and I think this is the healthiest our relationship has ever been.

Thanks for this story, this is the healthy outcome I'd hope for with Jim and I. - the very real outcome of breaking up vs the fear and insecurities about the concept of breaking up - the latter may actually be worse. Also expanding social circles. it's too hard being someone's only everything.
--------------------------

Cheers again the the replies everyone! Was really good advice. Still in the middle of the situation now so will try post how it works out.

 

[Samphire91]

If you can tell this is NOT what he wants to be doing but he's gonna do it anyway from fear of break up?

Then I think the most loving and kindest thing to do may be break up FIRST.

Don't let him subsume himself to the relationship and do stuff his heart is not really into. That would be letting him hurt himself and that's not loving or kind.

Don't turn a blind eye to his suffering if he's your best friend. Do the healthy thing for both even if it is hard -- end it clean.

Stop trying to be romantic partners. Heal, and then be friends only.

Then he doesn't have to be anxious any more about a break up because it already happened. Maybe he will move on to do his inner work. Maybe he won't. But the "limbo" thing ends.

And then you don't have to be shrinking yourself or lying or anything. You too can move on. The limbo thing ends for you too.

Yea, this is really great advice. As you can see by the situation, there is a lot of toxicity in this relationship. Some of it coming from my side too. It's getting really unhealthy .

I really want to try and work it out though. I wanna see a healthier version of both of us where we don't live in a codependent relationship.

Despite his original advocating of polyamory, it's seeming pretty clear he's not into it in the slightest. And I don't want him to be putting himself in a crap situation just for the sake of staying together. That wouldn't be fun or loving for anyone.

But how on earth do you break up with someone you have dreams and plans with? Someone you live with and pay bills with? It doesn't feel that easy. Even though lately it's felt like we shouldn't even be together. :/

Definitely something to think about.
He has brought up the concept of breaking up or living in different homes and trying to make a new type of 'us' work like that. Maybe it would be healthier.

 

[GalaGirl]

Despite his original advocating of polyamory, it's seeming pretty clear he's not into it in the slightest. And I don't want him to be putting himself in a crap situation just for the sake of staying together. That wouldn't be fun or loving for anyone.

Yup.

To me it sounds like he's in the camp of "Poly is ok for other people. But I don't want it myself for me."

Jim & I have spent the last 5 day's arguing over it. He says it would be more difficult than his last poly relationships because we live together, and because he's so emotionally (and lifestyle) invested in me. That it's not like how it was with past poly relationships because he actually cares about our life plans together. And living together makes it hard because it's so obvious when your partner is "off fucking someone else" to put it in his words. He actually seems disgusted and recoils at the idea of me being with another person*.

So basically the way he participated in his previous poly is

a) live separately so that
b) when they see people other than me I can pretend it's not happening.

Is that it?

And because you live together, he KNOWS you are out and cannot pretend you are just home at your house sleeping or something.

Still, Jim refuses to accept that I understand his feelings and emotional needs. He also thinks that I can't put myself in his position and understand his jealousy. He keeps asking me to imagine what it'd be like to be at home while I know he's off with someone else. To imagine him having sex with someone else.

And honestly, I am comfortable with that Idea. He was seeing someone else when we got together (that's what I meant by 'poly in mindset). I loved it. I loved the freeing feeling of my partner being able to get their emotional needs or sexual rocks off with someone else. It felt amazing to be able to do my own thing and know he doesn't need me for 100% of relationship needs.

Sounds like he needs to hear "Yes. I can see where it would upset you. I myself don't get upset like that, but I see where it would upset you. You don't like the idea of your lover having another lover."

But how on earth do you break up with someone you have dreams and plans with? Someone you live with and pay bills with? It doesn't feel that easy. Even though lately it's felt like we shouldn't even be together. :/

You could say "This doesn't work for me any more. I need to end it. I'm going to stay a X's house. I'd like to talk to you about moving day later on the weekend."

And don't announce anything til you have made your plans for getting out, and get your important stuff out first. I wish all break ups could be civil but they are not. I don't want to deal in any "If I can't have you, no one can!" drama.

He has brought up the concept of breaking up or living in different homes and trying to make a new type of 'us' work like that. Maybe it would be healthier.

Well, it would make him have to deal with himself and his social life more rather than "piggy backing" on to yours. And it would let him do poly "the old way" where he could arms distance it more.

And if you do end up breaking up, you are already living apart in homes so there's less stress of that.

So... maybe consider it. One more try that way -- living in separate homes doing poly.

And if it has to end in a break up at least it would be an easier one than from a cohabitating situation.

Galagirl

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

You can um and aah about this but the only solution is to love on and both find more compatible partners. Everything everyone else has said is totally valid but honestly, life is too short.

I watched some of this video with this poly man (41) talking about how his long term relationship with his partner (27) has caused him "psychological damage" but it is "worth it" because they have things in common like veganism. I commented that I'm at an age now where I realize that people who are almost compatible enough to be long term partners make the best friends. You don't have to force a relationship with someone just because being poly allows you more partner vacancies. You can still hold out for people who are high matches.

Here is the video:
https://youtu.be/VgEvQMUeSys

If you Google the guy, you also find that he's a creep.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Samphire,

Thanks for updating us on your situation. It sounds like things have maybe progressed just a little, like at least Jim knows you have a crush on Liam. I like Jim's idea of getting separate domiciles, while still continuing to see each other. There's actually a chance you could make poly work in that kind of a situation. Good luck and hang in there!

Much regards,
Kevin T.

 

[MeeraReed]

I'm sorry, Samphire, Jim sounds like an absolute nightmare to date. He doesn't sound remotely interested in any type of poly whatsoever.

I think you need to break up with him, no matter how hard or logistically difficult that may seem right now. Otherwise, he is going to make you miserable forever.

None of his deep insecurities are your problem to solve.

 

[Samphire91]

Update - looking a bit better!

Hi all, Thanks again so much for your input.

I think I maybe spoke too soon, as in Jim and I were right in the middle of figuring things out, and I was stressed and confused and came to post the problems in here.

Thanks for updating us on your situation. It sounds like things have maybe progressed just a little, like at least Jim knows you have a crush on Liam. I like Jim's idea of getting separate domiciles, while still continuing to see each other. There's actually a chance you could make poly work in that kind of a situation. Good luck and hang in there!

Thank you . Over the last few day's since posting, Jim has actually come around a long way. He's really looking within himself at all the issues I've bought up with all of you (Jealousy, codependency etc). It just took him some time. However the idea of living in separate houses is pretty foreign, Part of why we work so well is also because we live together. I think that will be a last resort if we couldn't make things work in the same house <3

---------

I think I painted him in a bad light by not really stating that he is aware of his issues. He sort of was, but he was letting them take hold of him. Now that we've been talking... and talking and talking and talking, he's now very aware of how much this was affecting our relationship (and his mental health too). It's not healthy at all to be this reliant on one other person, and he really knows that.

One thing that has come out during these talks is that he has a pretty crap relationship history (one mono long term relationship he was in his girlfriend was abusive towards him) and a few others left him for other people with no explanation. Basically, he actually wants to see a therapist because he is now really aware of how those past relationships may have affected how he is now. I think it sounds terrible. I sort of knew about the partners leaving him for 'no explanation/without any prior warning' but didn't really know about the abusive part (heard snippets here and there). It's really become clear just how much that may have had an impact.
So he's been looking up therapists to do video chats with.

We're both now a lot more aware of how this relationship has gotten pretty unhealthy, and Jim knows for sure that he's got to go out and start doing his own things.

I've *sort of* shifted away from the poly talk just a bit, and we're talking a lot more about how our relationship needs more independence in general.
Because we need to get to a healthy space between the two of us regardless of poly stuff. and definitely before ever doing anything poly with others.

I'm sorry, Samphire, Jim sounds like an absolute nightmare to date. He doesn't sound remotely interested in any type of poly whatsoever.
I think you need to break up with him, no matter how hard or logistically difficult that may seem right now. Otherwise, he is going to make you miserable forever.
None of his deep insecurities are your problem to solve.

I know some of you have said to leave him and yes, there have been times where I've thought that maybe that would be good, but really, we are actually best friends and seriously have awesome life together in general (aside from the issues I bought up) and I really enjoy being around him for the most part. I really care about him. And also, it feels like we could both work things out. It's really feeling a lot more promising than it was when I last replied to you all.

-------

In terms of poly stuff, he is now saying, 'he wants to be in that mindspace, he's just really struggling with the idea of me leaving, like he's not good enough'. And given what's come out fully about past relationships, I can see why he has those issues.

What I think is good is that we've both now acknowledged the unhealthy parts, and are now working on them.
I've gone out to see friends a few times now, and he's been making contact with old friends and had a few visits too. And it's making a big difference, both of us in a lot healthier mindset after seeing friends

I'm not going to pursue Liam for now, because really, I do like Liam, but there's always going to be other people in the future. And I kind of need the job anyway. Who knows if he even really likes me back? The entire thing is theoretical lol. I do think that is a fair compromise, given that Jim is now really willing to work on himself. I'm happy to give him the time to do that.
And in this coronavirus, crazy world that's going on right now, I can't really afford to lose/quit the job
Jim and I are happy to just wait and bring up the poly thing when I get feelings for another person in the future. Jim is open to that. Maybe when I do eventually get a new job, Jim and I will both be in a better head space, and I can make contact with Liam again. It is promising that Jim seems to be coming to terms with it. He's really trying to work on himself, and I'm seeing that much healthier version of himself that was closer to when we started dating.

So basically the way he participated in his previous poly is
a) live separately so that
b) when they see people other than me I can pretend it's not happening.
Is that it?
And because you live together, he KNOWS you are out and cannot pretend you are just home at your house sleeping or something.

Yes, I think basically, after a series of not so great for him mono relationships, he decided that it was easier to just be 'poly' and not let himself worry about what his partners were doing, and not have to fear being left by someone.

So I think that if him and I were to do the poly thing, it would have to be with a new mindset, that is less about 'not giving a shit' and more about being healthy, sexy best friends that can live their life together while also seeing others. A very different scenario to how he's been in past 'poly' relationships.

I do think he was using the 'poly' term to avoid being hurt again

------

Anyway, thanks so much for reading and replying. It's a lot of food for thought. This forum absolutely astounds me how there's so many people who are willing to take their time to help others. It's amazing, thank you!

 

[Samphire91]

Ps. For transparency/understanding - It's looking like I'm dumping all the relationship issues onto Jim. It goes both ways.
Not sure if this is TMI, but I also need to look at my own mental health . I got a lot of my own things to work on that are affecting myself and our relationship - I am messy af! (which means it's not that nice to have friends over our house - so maybe that is one little thing that could make it easier for us both to socialise) And I most likely have undiagnosed ADHD. My life is full of incomplete tasks.

On paper, I seem to love slightly 'damaged' people, and am maybe slightly 'damaged' myself. So yeah, I plan to see a psychiatrist about that. And also I think I have a tendency to enable/baby and care for other peoples issues too much without paying attention to my own. And Jim and I have been talking about this too. That maybe I subconsciously choose people who I know need a bit of emotional support, because then I can feel better about not working on my own issues. And I can pretend like my own issues aren't there as much.

So yeah, I've also been making mental health plans for myself during all this.
It's really why we also need more independence, so we can just focus on ourselves. So I can really take the time to take a long hard look at myself.

Just felt like that's important to add this in there.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Samphire,

It sounds like you and Jim are both on the road to a healthier relationship, and to a better state of mental health. I am glad to hear this. I think the best thing you can do is to continue on that path, while continuing to post on this thread now and then as your situation evolves. Good luck and carry on, I wish for the best of happiness for both of you!

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[fuchka]

Glad you have come to a positive place with Jim on this.

One thing I'd suggest is to have a timeline for a future poly conversation that isn't about you being interested in a new person. I.e. we will revisit this in X months / years, but pause conversation for now.

It makes the discussion less pressured and personal (i.e. it won't be about a specific person)

 

[Samphire91]

Thanks KDT26417 & Fuchka.
Yeah that is a good idea to have a time when there's no one else on my mind, to come back again and talk about it. That is how I originally bought it up (just talking about having past crushes on people) and this time I brought it up again when I had feelings for someone. But next time I bring it up, I'll try work it out so that I don't have feelings for anyone else at the time. I think this will be an ongoing thing that me and Jim will be talking about for some time lol.

Yeah, in terms of mental health, we have both separately contacted GPs/therapists in the last few days to book in personal sessions (not couple) just to talk about our own lives and issues.
Hopefully it all gets healthier and smoother from here on (at least both of our approach toward poly & life in general).

Thanks again everyone will try and keep updated about how things go. Fingers crossed

 

[Magdlyn]

Thanks KDT26417 & Fuchka.
Yeah that is a good idea to have a time when there's no one else on my mind, to come back again and talk about it. That is how I originally bought it up (just talking about having past crushes on people), and this time I brought it up again when I had feelings for someone.

But next time I bring it up, I'll try work it out so that I don't have feelings for anyone else at the time. I think this will be an ongoing thing that Jim and I will be talking about for some time lol.

Yeah, in terms of mental health, we have both separately contacted GPs/therapists in the last few days to book in personal sessions (not couple) just to talk about our own lives and issues. Hopefully it all gets healthier and smoother from here on (at least both of our approach toward poly & life in general).

It's funny, but as poly gals, my partner and I almost always have crushes on someone or another. So, trying to talk about poly when we don't have a crush would be pretty much impossible. I'd say, talk about poly when you don't feel there's a huge need to act on this or that crush.

One good step in opening up is to be able to talk about crushes, or to even see an attractive person, say on TV, or on the street, online, wherever, and be able to say to your partner, Hey, they're really cute/beautiful! And to have your partner go, yeah, they are, if they agree, or just to smile and nod without freaking the f**k out.

Our culture is crazy. We think that if you love someone, being jealous proves your love! My ex husband was so afraid of losing me, he had such low self esteem, that if I so much as said I liked this or that movie star or musician, he'd think, "Oh, she's going to go run off with them." He even said that to me once, "Why don't you just go be with Johnny Depp?" It was insane.

I know some couples have that "hall pass" thing. "You have my permission to go have sex with [this one celebrity] if you ever have the chance." Ha! I'd need about 100 passes. Thank the gods I don't need a "pass" from my partner. *shudder*

 

[vinsanity0]

It's funny, but as poly gals, my partner and I almost always have crushes on someone or another. So, trying to talk about poly when we don't have a crush would be pretty much impossible. I'd say, talk about poly when you don't feel there's a huge need to act on this or that crush.

One good step in opening up is to be able to talk about crushes, or to even see an attractive person, say on TV, or on the street, online, wherever, and be able to say to your partner, Hey, they're really cute/beautiful! And to have your partner go, yeah, they are, if they agree, or just to smile and nod without freaking the f**k out.

Our culture is crazy. We think that if you love someone, being jealous proves your love! My ex husband was so afraid of losing me, he had such low self esteem, that if I so much as said I liked this or that movie star or musician, he'd think, "Oh, she's going to go run off with them." He even said that to me once, "Why don't you just go be with Johnny Depp?" It was insane.

I know some couples have that "hall pass" thing. "You have my permission to go have sex with [this one celebrity] if you ever have the chance." Ha! I'd need about 100 passes. Thank the gods I don't need a "pass" from my partner. *shudder*

LOL, reminded me of Ross on "Friends". He had a List.

 

[Samphire91]

Update?

Hi all, here's an update - things have been going... strangely?

So, yeah, Jim and I have been working pretty hard on ourselves, dealing with all the rot and shit that can get caught up in an unhealthy relationship. We're both still booked in to get professional help for our own issues.
It was feeling pretty good and healthy, although stressful due to the hard realities we were both facing. Jim had still been maintaining that he couldn't handle poly yet due to jealousy and self esteem issues. That he couldn't handle the idea of me being with someone else.
Then Jim's ex girlfriend (Feather) came to stay with us. Someone he still loves dearly ('platonic') and is still best friends with over long distance.
A close friend of Feather's had passed away, and she needed somewhere to stay while attending the funeral. Of course, our house was instantly on offer. Something I was fine with.
For some reason though, I wasn't fine with it. And I didn't know why at the time. I trusted Jim and the fact that he said it was platonic. Maybe it was just the difficulty of all the stresses combined, covid, and having to host someone and create a safe haven for Feather, while she dealt with grief.

Anyway, she was due to arrive that night, and I actually left work early to go have a mild mental breakdown by myself in a bookstore/coffee shop. It was actually really nice. I bought a cool book. I needed my own mental space for a while. I still don't fully understand what I was stressing out about exactly. Just everything really. When Feather came over, we all proceeded to get blindingly drunk. And I noticed Jim was being really affectionate towards Feather. I didn't think too much of it, as he'd said many times that he felt only friendship and nothing sexual towards her. But it was still really nice to see. I liked seeing him be affectionate towards her.
As the night went on, I fell asleep on the couch, and then woke up in the early hours of the morning to an empty room. All their stuff was still on the floor, even their half empty drinks. I looked all around the house, except for in Feather's room. I concluded that they'd either gone for a walk, or ended up sleeping together. I went to bed and then in the morning it turns out they had slept together.
I was pretty okay with it. The only thing I didn't like was that we hadn't talked about it earlier. So I'd had that silly, childish feeling while I was walking around the house looking for them.

And then Feather continued to stay with us for about another 2 weeks or so. I actually really, really liked Feather staying with us. We made good friends. It felt really safe and comfortable for the most part. Although ideally I just don't like housemates in general. But yeah, for me this whole situation proved to me that I didn't feel jealousy like Jim does. That I was actually so happy that Jim got to experience that beautiful feeling of kissing someone you really wanna kiss in the moment. The only thing I'd be jealous about is that he got to do it and I still feel like I can't do the same thing.

Jim feels really bad and like he'd cheated on me. Like it was a mistake. He genuinely couldn't remember having sex with her. He could only remember kissing her. I mean he kind of did cheat on me, given we hadn't agreed to any of this happening. And it was difficult trying to stay a bit 'happy' because Feather was already dealing with grief, and I really didn't want her to feel like she'd fucked up me & Jim's relationship at all. So yeah, there was a little bit of acting on my part. We didn't really get much chance to let emotions flow naturally around the whole situation.

Jim's saying now that I can go do whatever/whoever I want, because he 'cheated'. But that's not what I wanted. I don't wanna just go hook up with someone in retaliation. I wanted to enter poly with a really healthy, positive mindset. And a set up some sort of guidelines. And this just doesn't feel right yet.

But still, this crush I have isn't going away. The other day at work, Liam offered me a ride home. I declined on the offer because I'm not sure I could stop myself from something if the opportunity came up. We'd just spent the whole day working together, and his partner came in for a visit. She seems really nice too, she just glows. Like, I don't get what their relationship is all about. Is it open? Are they poly? Why is he so flirtatious with me? I don't know how to find out without letting my feelings for him show. Oh gosh, I like him so much.

It sucks that all these feelings have to be covered up with negativity. I just want a chance to gush a bit I like this guy so much omg. I was hoping the feelings would dissipate. But they really haven't. Hanging around with Liam feels constantly awesome. I've always got a spring in my step around him.