Partner used to be poly but now too jealous

[Samphire91]

It's funny, but as poly gals, my partner and I almost always have crushes on someone or another. So, trying to talk about poly when we don't have a crush would be pretty much impossible. I'd say, talk about poly when you don't feel there's a huge need to act on this or that crush.

One good step in opening up is to be able to talk about crushes, or to even see an attractive person, say on TV, or on the street, online, wherever, and be able to say to your partner, Hey, they're really cute/beautiful! And to have your partner go, yeah, they are, if they agree, or just to smile and nod without freaking the f**k out.

Our culture is crazy. We think that if you love someone, being jealous proves your love! My ex husband was so afraid of losing me, he had such low self esteem, that if I so much as said I liked this or that movie star or musician, he'd think, "Oh, she's going to go run off with them." He even said that to me once, "Why don't you just go be with Johnny Depp?" It was insane.

I know some couples have that "hall pass" thing. "You have my permission to go have sex with [this one celebrity] if you ever have the chance." Ha! I'd need about 100 passes. Thank the gods I don't need a "pass" from my partner. *shudder*

Hah!Yeah, this sounds similar to what my relationship is like a bit ... Also, I think you're right on how hard it will be to wait 'til I don't have a crush on anyone. This current crush is only getting stronger lol.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not sure I'm following where this is at. Let me try to repeat back in my own words to make sure I get it how you meant.

Is it something like this? I quote just to visually block it off.

RECENT PAST
You and Jim currently have a monogamous arrangement.

• You would like to change it to polyamorous.
• You are interested in a guy called Liam.
• Jim does NOT want to change agreements right now. He says he can't deal with sharing your time and attention with others.
• You are both taking a time out to work with your therapists and work on your personal stuff before changing agreements.

PROBLEM

Feather came to stay and your home because she was attending a funeral.

• Jim cheated on the monogamous agreement. He shared sex with Feather the first night she was there. (?)
• Feather is/is not aware you and Jim are supposed to be Closed right now.
• During the rest of her visit you were "acting" and did not really let emotions flow naturally around the whole situation.

FEELINGS - GENERAL

You are upset by this whole thing, but maybe not really "in tune" with that upset. (??)

• You are fine/and not fine with Feather staying with you.
• You felt weird about her being there even though Jim claimed it was platonic
• You left for work early to have a private mental breakdown in coffee shop the day she is to arrive. Shared some time with them and feel asleep on the sofa.
• Woke up looking for them and felt silly later to realize they were in her room. They shared sex.
• Feeling annoyed this was not discussed ahead of time, etc

FEELINGS - ANGER

In general you are not mad that they slept together (the act.) You are not a jealous person.

• You are mad that Jim broke monogamous agreement.
  • Like he gets drunk and doesn't consider you. He just goes off to be with other people.
  • While you consider him and have been waiting on pursuing Liam until new agreements with Jim are reached first.
• What you ultimately want is to enter poly with a really healthy, positive mindset. And a set up some sort of guidelines /agreements first.
• Not Jim giving you a "hall pass" from his own guilt from cheating on agreements.

Is that what happened / is going on now?

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Samphire,

Wow, those are some strange developments lately. Is Jim going to continue his relationship with Feather, or was that mostly a one-time thing? In the meantime, I have to say, your feelings for Liam seem to be getting stronger and stronger. Now you have a spring in your step when he's around. And Jim is giving you a free pass, so to speak? It must be tempting. So now you are the one saying, "No, let's slow down. And do this right." Strange indeed!

I don't know if it's quite time yet to start talking with Jim about opening up. First you need to discuss what happened with Feather, and how both of you feel about that. Because Jim has his feelings too, and you certainly have your feelings. You both need to talk about it. I presume Feather is not staying with you now, she has gone home? If so, you don't have to keep on acting. You can talk about how you really feel about that. And now's the time.

Thanks for keeping us up to date.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Samphire91]

Thanks so much Galagirl & Kevin T,

Yeah, Galagirl, you've summed it up completely

Jim cheated on the monogamous agreement. He shared sex with Feather the first night she was there. (?)
Feather is/is not aware you and Jim are supposed to be Closed right now.
During the rest of her visit you were "acting" and did not really let emotions flow naturally around the whole situation.

To clarify,
- They slept together on the first night she was there, then after that nothing happened between them for the time she stayed. Jim didn't want anything sexual or romantic to happen again, although I gave them the green light as long as they let me know what was going on. They were still affectionate towards each other as friends, but nothing more.
Honestly, he was reaally, really drunk (I'm suprised they were physically capable of performing sex, lol).

- That night Jim mentioned to her about some of the poly talks we'd been having, and how I wanted poly. From what I can gather, I think they kissed soon after that?
Feather and I spoke about it a bit, I explained the situation that Jim and I are in, and she confirmed that she was under the impression Jim and I had agreed on poly. I clarified to her about how we hadn't agreed on anything, but that for the most part, what happened was okay. The only thing I felt was envy.

- In terms of 'acting', Jim and I did get a few chances to talk about it, and I spoke to him about how I felt no jealousy but definitely felt envy. But in general, yes, there was a sense of 'acting' because of how we both wanted Feather to feel safe and comfortable. So we had to speak in hushed tones most of the time about the whole thing.

Since Feather left, we've spoken about it all in depth (and had more full blown arguments/crying times) and have gone over pretty much everything I've spoken about in these posts.

I think right now, we're at an impasse until the therapy starts. Pretty hard times at the moment.

And Jim is giving you a free pass, so to speak? It must be tempting. So now you are the one saying, "No, let's slow down. And do this right." Strange indeed!

Yeah, it is tempting. But more frustrating because I know Jim isn't actually okay with it. Jim seems to be giving me a 'free pass' out of guilt for what he did. Not because he actually wants poly.

To be clear, he wants to want poly. He wants to get into the right, healthy mindset. Or at least to figure out why he feels so much fear and jealousy about our relationship in general (this was even before poly was brought up).
But it does tempt me a bit. He has said many times "just to rip the bandaid off and we'll see how we go". I think if nothing changes, we might give that a try. But for now it doesn't feel right to just go off and do what I want to do .

Feather has left for now but might stay with us again for a while (due to her life situations and covid stuff at the moment, she may need to come stay with us again).

Thanks again for your replies, it is really helpful having a community of people with all this knowledge and insight

 

[Samphire91]

Wow, those are some strange developments lately. Is Jim going to continue his relationship with Feather, or was that mostly a one-time thing?

I think for now, what happened with Feather was a one-time thing. But I also think my trust with Jim has been broken a bit, and that if we don't come to a more 'open' relationship agreement, I'll alway's worry that he'll drunkenly hook up with someone else anyway. I'd rather just make it open now even just because of that, because I'd rather be comfortable knowing that something could happen, then worry that something might happen anyway.

--------
Also, no-one asked, but I wanna clarify a bit more about Liam - something I realized I failed to mention in most of my posts? Liam is in a relationship with an amazing woman.
So the whole thing is technically theoretical and based on whether they're in an open relationship or not.

The reason I even let myself entertain something happening with Liam is because I'm pretty certain he has feelings for me. We are constantly flirting and the energy is like, full-on electric . There's been quite a few things that have happened that make me think they have some sort of poly setup too. But honestly, I won't actually know until I find a way to properly bring it up with him. I know it sounds a bit silly being theoretical. I could bring it up to Liam by talking about some stuff about poly, just casually. But I worry about my own reactions and facial expressions if he say's he is (or if he says he isn't poly!)
By "pursuing Liam' literally all I'm talking about to begin with would be telling him my feelings for him, and figuring out what the setup was for his relationship.
There's no heckin' way I would do anything with him if it turns out he wasn't in an open relationship.
But yeah, this all counts on Jim giving me the green light to actually let that situation start to happen.
Either way, I know Liam isn't the last person I'm going to end up having feelings for, so this whole thread is still really amazingly helpful, even if nothing ever happens with Liam. Thanks <3

 

[GalaGirl]

I'd rather just make it open now even just because of that, because I'd rather be comfortable knowing that something could happen, then worry that something might happen anyway.

So... what stops you from making a plan to Open now?

Yeah, it is tempting. But more frustrating because I know Jim isn't actually okay with it. Jim seems to be giving me a 'free pass' out of guilt for what he did. Not because he actually wants poly.

How about you start taking Jim more at face value and expect him to manage himself and say what he means?

By "pursuing Liam' literally all I'm talking about to begin with would be telling him my feelings for him, and figuring out what the setup was for his relationship.
There's no heckin' way I would do anything with him if it turns out he wasn't in an open relationship.
But yeah, this all counts on Jim giving me the green light to actually let that situation start to happen.

What kind of green light do you need?

Jim seems to be giving me a 'free pass' out of guilt for what he did. Not because he actually wants poly.

He has said many times "just to rip the bandaid off and we'll see how we go".

How about you BELIEVE HIM? He's not thrilled but he's willing to go there. So GO. That seems to be what he's saying.

How about you tell Jim you are going to take him at his Word and get on with asking Liam if he's available for poly dating or not next month. Like get to X therapy appointments and then just get on with asking Liam out. And Jim has a whole month to check in and say "Nope. Don't."

Because asking Liam out might come to nothing, because you don't know if Liam is in an open relationship, but then this can come to a conclusion instead of dragging on.

Worst thing that happens is you learn Liam is not in an open relationship. Small bummer, but it happens.

On the other hand, Jim sees nothing "doom" happened.

I think if nothing changes, we might give that a try. But for now it doesn't feel right to just go off and do what I want to do.

Well, talk to therapist about it.

I might be wrong. But it sounds like it would be a whole lot easier on all if you did X therapy sessions each, called the relationship "Open."

And he can work his issues and find out nothing "doom" happens when you poly date and starts to calm down.

And you can not have to worry about him getting drunk and hooking up and breaking agreements. Because the new Open agreements makes space for that.

It's almost like you are both on "high alert" when there's nothing even happening yet. But it starts to "anxiety circle" -- YKWIM?

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

Jim and I have been working pretty hard on ourselves, dealing with all the rot and shit that can get caught up in an unhealthy relationship. We're both still booked in to get professional help for our own issues.

It was feeling pretty good and healthy, although stressful, due to the hard realities we were both facing. Jim had still been maintaining that he couldn't handle poly yet, due to jealousy and self esteem issues.

Then Jim's ex girlfriend (Feather) came to stay with us. Someone he still loves dearly... long distance. She needed somewhere to stay while attending a funeral. Of course, our house was instantly on offer. Something I was fine with. For some reason though, I wasn't fine with it.

It sounds like you had mixed feelings: fine/not fine. Why say you were fine if you weren't? I think your spidey senses were tingling. You could learn to go with your gut more, respect your feelings and understand them.

I trusted that... it was platonic. Maybe it was... Covid, and having to host create a safe haven for Feather.

...When Feather came over, we all proceeded to get blindingly drunk.

Why was that? Did you drink to drown your concerns about Jim still being attracted to Feather? Do you and Jim usually overdrink to deal with stress? Is this something to look at?

And I noticed Jim was being really affectionate towards Feather. I didn't think too much of it, as he'd said many times that he felt only friendship and nothing sexual towards her. But it was still really nice to see.

You want very badly for Jim to be poly. Is Feather one of the women who dumped him without warning??? Because that's weird, if she is.

I fell asleep on the couch, and then woke up in the early hours of the morning to an empty room. All their stuff was still on the floor, even their half empty drinks... in the morning it turns out they had slept together.

Well, you saw their "stuff," If you mean clothing, I don't know why you'd think they went for a walk.

I didn't like that we hadn't talked about it earlier.

Hell, yeah! OMG. All that stuff and nonsense about JIM's low self esteem and worries about you leaving him, and then at his first chance, he goes and drunk fucks an ex! I'd be livid!!

And then Feather continued to stay with us for about another 2 weeks or so.

What? You trusted them after the drunk fuck, after all the torture Jim put you through with his severe low self esteem and constant moaning about you leaving him for another? This just doesn't sound self respectful, to be honest.

I... liked Feather staying with us. We made good friends. It felt really safe and comfortable for the most part... I just don't like housemates in general.

Again, fine/not fine.

to be continued...

 

[Magdlyn]

But yeah, for me this whole situation proved to me that I didn't feel jealousy like Jim does. That I was actually so happy that Jim got to experience that beautiful feeling of kissing someone you really wanna kiss in the moment.

Haha, all he remembers is the kiss. How good did it feel? He was shitfaced.

The only thing I'd be jealous about is that he got to do it and I still feel like I can't do the same thing.

I don't think that's an "only" thing to be casually ignored. It's the ultimate double standard. There's no "can't" about it. He's not your dad or your boss. He's your cheating husband, your equal. You're both adults.

He gets to drunk fuck someone and have her stay for 2 weeks afterward! And you, who are truly poly, and for healthy reasons, I'd say, still mooning around over this Liam for month upon month, with no resolution made by yourself, no consent from Jim, and no action taken to find out if Liam is poly...

Jim feels really bad and like he'd cheated on me. Like it was a mistake.

He should, and it was. It was a dick move. Let's be honest here. Just because you didn't get jealous, does not mean that he didn't CHEAT. Because, he totally did. Don't just sweep this under the rug, just because you're poly. There's cheating and bad behavior in poly too.

He genuinely couldn't remember having sex with her. He could only remember kissing her. I mean he kind of did cheat on me, given we hadn't agreed to any of this happening.

He DID cheat, it wasn't kinda. I guess there is other evidence they actually did fuck? Like, she remembers? Or there was (hopefully) a used condom around? Drunks don't always remember to use condoms.

And it was difficult trying to stay a bit 'happy' because Feather was already dealing with grief, and I really didn't want her to feel like she'd fucked up me & Jim's relationship at all. So yeah, there was a little bit of acting on my part. We didn't really get much chance to let emotions flow naturally around the whole situation.

Why did you agree to let her stay for 2 weeks? Was it your role to comfort her? Was this more of you ignoring your own feelings and rushing to aid a broken-winged bird instead?

You're not the first person to care more about another's needs than your own. It's kinda rife in our society. I blame Christianity, but I guess it's also a survival of the species thing. But really, we need to care for our own needs at least as much as others' needs. We can't ONLY care for our own needs and desires, we call that being a sociopath (*cough trump cough*). But what are you doing here? You're not helping anything by being so "kind" to Jim and Feather, when he cheated on you.

Did he tell her he had consent to fuck her? Did he lie? Did she apologize? Did you all discuss this at all? Feather didn't fuck things up. She was grieving. Maybe Jim lied and said it was OK. It's Jim that acted shockingly badly, and it's you who rewarded him by letting Feather stay for 2 weeks afterwards.

Jim's saying now that I can go do whatever/whoever I want, because he 'cheated'. But that's not what I wanted. I don't wanna just go hook up with someone in retaliation. I wanted to enter poly with a really healthy, positive mindset. And a set up some sort of guidelines. And this just doesn't feel right yet.

But still, this crush I have isn't going away. The other day at work, Liam offered me a ride home. I declined on the offer because I'm not sure I could stop myself from something if the opportunity came up.

Stop yourself from what? You're an adult. Hey, apparently it's fine for you to just get drunk and fuck Liam without anyone's consent at this point. *sarcasm*

We'd just spent the whole day working together, and his partner came in for a visit. She seems really nice too, she just glows. Like, I don't get what their relationship is all about. Is it open? Are they poly? Why is he so flirtatious with me? I don't know how to find out without letting my feelings for him show. Oh gosh, I like him so much.

It sucks that all these feelings have to be covered up with negativity. I just want a chance to gush a bit I like this guy so much omg. I was hoping the feelings would dissipate. But they really haven't. Hanging around with Liam feels constantly awesome. I've always got a spring in my step around him.

Stop sucking it up. Be yourself. Ask Liam if he's poly or Open and tell him. Let Jim suck things up for once.

 

[Magdlyn]

They [had drunken sex and] slept together on the first night she was there, then after that nothing happened. Jim didn't want anything sexual or romantic to happen again, although I gave them the green light, as long as they let me know what was going on.

Wow. Why? Just because he can have sex with someone, doesn't automatically make him OK with you having sex or a relationship with someone else. In poly, it's almost always way easier to have another relationship, than to see your partner have one. It's not hard for you, but turnabout is not fair play here. Jim still has the same low self esteem, dependency issues, fears, mistrust, etc. You being all ladidah isn't going to make his self esteem improve.

They were still affectionate towards each other as friends, but nothing more.
Honestly, he was reaally, really drunk (I'm surprised they were physically capable of performing sex, lol).

That night Jim mentioned to her about some of the poly talks we'd been having, and how I wanted poly. From what I can gather, I think they kissed soon after that?

Oh. So he said you and he were considering poly, but hadn't actually agreed to it, but that somehow it was OK if he fucked her than night? WTH?

I understand he was drunk, and thinking with his penis, but this is just so wrong.

Feather and I spoke about it a bit, I explained the situation that Jim and I are in, and she confirmed that she was under the impression Jim and I had agreed on poly. I clarified to her about how we hadn't agreed on anything, but that for the most part, what happened was okay. The only thing I felt was envy.

OK, so you did discuss it a little. And you blew it all off that Jim cheated. It wasn't poly. Feather may think it was, but it was cheating. You walked around the house like a fool looking for them. You didn't think they were in the guest room fucking. You couldn't imagine what had happened.

In terms of 'acting', Jim and I did get a few chances to talk about it, and I spoke to him about how I felt no jealousy, but definitely felt envy. But in general, there was a sense of 'acting,' because of how we both wanted Feather to feel safe and comfortable. So we had to speak in hushed tones most of the time about the whole thing.

Since Feather left, we've spoken about it all in depth (and had more full blown arguments/crying times) and have gone over pretty much everything I've spoken about in these posts. I think right now, we're at an impasse until the therapy starts. Pretty hard times at the moment.

OK, so you finally let yourself express your hurt at Jim cheating, his double standard. Good!

Jim seems to be giving me a 'free pass' out of guilt for what he did. Not because he actually wants poly... He wants to want poly.

Jim is "fine/not fine too."

Feather has left for now, but might stay with us again for a while (due to her life situations and Covid stuff at the moment, she may need to come stay with us again).

needle scratch again! I don't get this, at all. Of all things to do right now, when you and Jim are struggling, fighting, crying and desperately needing therapy, and you crushing on Liam, you don't need his ex gf with whom he cheated living with you. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this at all.

Why does Feather feel, and you believe, that, out of the blue, she "needs" to live with her "ex" and his newer gf?

You mentioned ADHD. It sounds like there is unfinished business all over the place, buried in the pile of the next thing you take on.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Samphire,

I wonder if maybe the thing to say to Liam, is, something like, "I should let you know that Jim and I are open/poly." As that would kind of give Liam an opening to say, "Yeah, I am poly too." But before you can say that to him, you have to *be* poly -- Jim has to be open to it. I am thinking you are not quite to that stage yet -- you are still negotiating. Maybe after you have had some sessions of therapy, Jim will feel more open to being poly. As opposed to just feeling guilty that he had that one encounter with Feather.

Keep us posted!
Much regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi Samphire,

I wonder if maybe the thing to say to Liam, is, something like, "I should let you know that Jim and I are open/poly." As that would kind of give Liam an opening to say, "Yeah, I am poly too." But before you can say that to him, you have to *be* poly -- Jim has to be open to it. I am thinking you are not quite to that stage yet -- you are still negotiating. Maybe after you have had some sessions of therapy, Jim will feel more open to being poly. As opposed to just feeling guilty that he had that one encounter with Feather.

Yeah, of course Samphire and Jim are not poly, yet. They are in the negotiation stage. Maybe Liam, if he's poly, would be interested in dating a newbie, after she's done some therapy and she and Jim get their shit together. He seems to really like her. But she should be clear with him that things are not great at home, and that there is a possibility of some tough times dating her... I can imagine there would be a lot of issues with how many times a week she can date, issues around texts and phone calls, money spent on dates, sleepovers, meeting the metamours, etc., etc. All those things we know you have to learn about and work out.

I've tried to date guys who were in the newbie stages of poly several times, and I've gotten burned each time. But, there are a lot of newbies out there. We all start somewhere.

I would recommend the book Opening Up, and reading at morethantwo.com and practicalpolyamory.com.