passive-aggressive husband

loveboth

New member
Hi all,

It's been a long time since I've been here. I'm bi, married for many years, broke up with my first GF in March and spent the year coming to terms with that. It was hard, but I'm better now.

I've been seeing another woman recently, although still platonic while she decides how she feels about the poly thing (and she has never been with a woman, although she is interested). That's its own frustration, but not what I'm writing about.

I'm trying to figure out how to deal w/my passive-aggressive husband. When we talk openly about my dating women, he assures me that he's on board with it, he understands my needs. It's not easy for him, I know, but he's given me the go-ahead. (He also, of course, is free to see other women, but he doesn't really know how to go about it and part of him doesn't want to bother. I talk about that with him some, but mostly treat it as his issue to deal with.)

But every time I mention this woman, whom he knows and likes, he gets an edge to his voice, or he makes what feel to me like passive-aggressive digs.

I'm kind of at a loss. On one hand, I want to give him space to deal with the situation however he needs to. It's not easy for him (or me, frankly--if I could make my desires magically disappear, I would, but that hasn't worked) and I understand that.

On the other hand, it's starting to really piss me off.

I sometimes call him on it, but of course he can just say (the call of the passive-aggressive) "I'm just kidding," or somesuch. I've started just responding to comments in the most bland way if they need a response, or ignoring them if they don't, but that feels uncomfortable too. It makes me feel like I should sneak around just to avoid the ick, but I don't want to do that.

Any thoughts from you smart people?
 
Try not mentioning your gf to him except to say, I am seeing her tonight (or on X day). Just the barest information should suffice. Don't gush.
 
I agree with Magdlyn. It may seem like sneaking around, but it's not. I get that you would like the freedom to be able to just talk about your life, especially with someone you love. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like he's ready for that. Maybe in the future.
 
Hi loveboth,

I also think it's better if you don't talk to your husband about people you date. Don't give him the opportunity to act passive-aggressive in the first place. If he won't treat you respectfully, he doesn't deserve to hear about the people you see.

Just some thoughts,
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I just want to break the unisono a little bit ;)

To me, the problem seems to be a lack (a blind spot perhaps) in your emotional intimacy. If he has trouble with something and wont tell you when you call him out ... that's not really my ideal of partners' communication.
Not much comes to my mind as a solution, but I'd try asking about the motives for his behavior with genuine curiosity.

Not talking about your partner is something you may want to offer, but I think all parties should be clear on why this measure is taken.
 
Talk to him about it directly, ans ask him what he prefers. Many people prefer to not hear details about their metas. Ask him what his preferences are on that kind of talk? Maybe just "I have plans with X on this date and time" works best for him, and that's totally okay. I don't advocate DADT, but I think it's okay for my partners to ask not to hear any kind of details aside from what directly impacts them/us (scheduling, sexual health, etc.). I do expect everyone to act like polite adults (so, if I was hospitalized or something,, I would expect they all figure out a schedule for visitation without getting pissy, etc.); but, I don't expect my partners to want to hear about one another aside from that.
 
Could you give an example conversation that includes something passive aggressive that he says? It's hard to give specific suggestions when there isn't any specific conversation.

In general I think you could ask him what amount of info he wants to know and when. How much is too much, how much is too little and what is just right. Then stick with his preferences (assuming they are reasonable requests.)

Also tell him YOUR preference to be free of any comments that are passive-aggressive or "just kidding" at this time while you too are adjusting.

Galagirl
 
Passive aggression is not a diagnosis -- it is a symptom.

There are certainly "passive-aggressive personalities" who prefer to use underhanded, backbiting, manipulative tactics, because it blocks off emotion & empathy. Unless your husband generally works in that manner, he's not.

Passive aggression often appears when someone feels they cannot safely express fear/doubt/pain in an overt Adult-to-Adult manner. Are you in the habit of "getting pissed off," of "calling him out," of telling him how you expect things to go & "getting the go-ahead" rather than working it out as equals, & "ignoring him" when you don't get reflexive buy-in?
 
Passive aggression is not a diagnosis -- it is a symptom.

There are certainly "passive-aggressive personalities" who prefer to use underhanded, backbiting, manipulative tactics, because it blocks off emotion & empathy. Unless your husband generally works in that manner, he's not.

Passive aggression often appears when someone feels they cannot safely express fear/doubt/pain in an overt Adult-to-Adult manner. Are you in the habit of "getting pissed off," of "calling him out," of telling him how you expect things to go & "getting the go-ahead" rather than working it out as equals, & "ignoring him" when you don't get reflexive buy-in?

It's also fair to point out that, for most people who are PA, it's a communication habit that has been developed over their lifetime, often stemming from their family dynamics. I've never seen or known anyone who got into a relationship and suddenly became PA if they hadn't already had some of that going on when they entered the relationship. I say this because I've been in relationships/dating people who turned out to be very PA, and it wasn't me or my reactions that were causing it, and it's very possible it's not Loveboth's reactions causing it. It could be, of course, or they could be exasperating it; but, it's just as likely this is how he's learned to communicate over the years. That is what happened in my relationships, and honestly being PA isn't particularly uncommon. It's also societally reinforced (which drives me batty, but it is incredibly common in TV and movies, etc., and is rarely called out or addressed as being unacceptable).

In my relationships, in once case, the relationship ended because it was a symptom of other really unhealthy things going on with them that they were entirely unwilling to address; but, in a couple other cases, once it was pointed out and some positive, healthy consistency and honest communication happened regularly and with good outcomes, it stopped over time.

In fact, my nesting partner is one of the latter relationships. His PA communication definitely started in childhood, where his dad modeled this behavior and his two older siblings really picked up on it and started it, as well. It got worse in a couple of his relationships previous to me, where some of his partners also had bad tenancies in that area (needless to say, shit was volatile in those relationships for all involved). He falls back into it once in a while, but we've got a very open dialogue about it and have found ways for us that are non-blaming and helpful to talk about it. Over the last several years, the incidents have become very rare.

The point of this whole thing being that, while Lovingboth should definitely look internally to see if there's anything that they could improve in communication, the roots likely go back much farther and are more complicated.
 
I don't gush about her, nor talk about her all that much. And I have asked how much he wants to know. All he's said so far is "I don't have to know everything." I try to tell him only as much as seems necessary. At this point, there's not much to tell, but if and when it progresses to physical (please, oh please), I will update him.

She does come to the house and he sees her. They like each other. And he used to complain about feeling left out when I saw my former GF, who did not want to be around him, so I am hoping that we can all spend time together. Not extensive hanging out (although maybe--who knows?), but I do like having her over to the house, usually when he's busy. And she's come to see his band play.

But, for example, I offered him a slice of pie she had left for us and he said, "Susan (not her real name), Susan, Susan ... it's all about Susan all the time, isn't it?" It's a joke, but it's not. And when I tell him I am seeing her on X night (and this is getting together once a week or every couple of weeks at this point), he gets a tone to his voice--"Oh, I see."

And please don't jump to conclusions about my reaction or assume I'm just telling him how things will be. That hurts my feelings. I have had to express the fact that I will never feel fully myself if I don't have a relationship with a woman as well, and that superficial sexual relationships don't work for me. (And, let's face it, I'm 58 years old and married--women aren't exactly beating down my door for recreational sex.) I've done several years of very deep thinking on that, and it's just the way it is for me. I have not been able to turn that part of myself off. So yeah--that does pin him in, unless he wants to end the marriage. He says he understands this, that he knows I have to be who I am. It is a very loving attitude for him to take, but difficult to maintain, I guess.

Our communication is generally pretty straightforward and open; we've been in and out of counseling together several times and are pretty healthy. (We've also both done individual therapy.) We've been together 30 years. Polyamory is a new development, though, and we're still trying to figure it out, see if it can work for us.

I will call him on passive aggressive comments sometimes by saying, "What do you mean?" or "Does this bother you?" or "Are you angry?" and try to turn it into a discussion rather than a jab. But he says, "I'm just kidding" or something like that. I don't think I act pissed--as I said, I am trying to give him room to deal however he needs to deal. I just am starting to feel less generous about it and that feels bad. Right now my strategy is pretending he didn't say anything.

He is, generally, passive aggressive, and a moody guy. Not surprisingly, his reactions depend a lot on how he is feeling about himself at the moment. And sometimes I think his dismay is less about Susan than because he doesn't know how to find someone for himself. But that's just me guessing.

Of course, I still haven't shaken feeling guilty for putting him through all this, so that may be affecting how I hear what he says. I'm trying to figure that out, too.
 
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You seem to be on good track, Loveboth.

But, for example, I offered him a slice of pie she had left for us and he said, "Susan (not her real name), Susan, Susan ... it's all about Susan all the time, isn't it?" It's a joke, but it's not. And when I tell him I am seeing her on X night (and we're talking once a week or every couple of weeks at this point), he gets a tone to his voice--"Oh, I see."
The situations you describe seem too delicate to be really understood from writing only. We have no idea, if that "tone" is sad or slightly angry or what. Maybe he's got a hard time controling some jealousy, or maybe there's nothing to it then a bad joke really.
Maybe it's not your job to figure out either? You offer him to tell you once he's figured out what is bugging him/how to help him, and indeed proceed with ignoring it. Or just giving him a hug, whatever it is. Or you can say 'yes, it's all about Susan' and see where it goes :) Turning it into jokes yourself could be good strategy.
 
Thanks for more info.

But, for example, I offered him a slice of pie she had left for us and he said, "Susan (not her real name), Susan, Susan ... it's all about Susan all the time, isn't it?" It's a joke, but it's not.

If you haven't said anything but "Would you like some of Susan's pie?" I think it stems from HIM overthinking about Susan while she's over on a visit.

I guess the only thing I can think of is to leave her name out and say "Would you like some pie?" or just not offer to get him any pie. Leave it in the kitchen and let him figure out if he wants pie or not.

When she's just left and his brain is full up on Susan, don't mention any Susan-y things. Not even harmless pie.

And when I tell him I am seeing her on X night (and this is getting together once a week or every couple of weeks at this point), he gets a tone to his voice--"Oh, I see."

How do you say it? You literally tell him? "I'm seeing Susan on Friday. (Unspoken: So you just lump it.)" Even though you don't say that... is that what he hears?

Or do you ASK him if it works for him? "I'd like to see Susan on Friday. Did you have anything going on? Is another night better for me to go out?"

Over here DH would be pissed if I just made some "announcement" like that. I would be too. Neither one of us wants to expect shared evening parenting/chores and then suddenly get the whole load dumped on us. I expect help with the kids and BAM! I'm a single mom tonight? Over here it works out better to have regular days. Then there's no surprises. Could setting a regular date night with Susan help with that?

You might not have the evening chores of children. But if there's chores to do like pets or dinner or laundry or whatever - maybe's he's feeling grumpy that you take off and leave him saddled with it all? Without even asking if a different night works better for him?

Don't assume any old day works. At the same time... don't take things on board that are his. If all he says is "Oh, I see." in some grumpy tone? And he doesn't elaborate? Don't be mind reader-ing. Let him own it and learn to speak up.

Our communication is generally pretty straightforward and open; we've been in and out of counseling together several times and are pretty healthy. (We've also both done individual therapy.) We've been together 30 years. Polyamory is a new development, though, and we're still trying to figure it out, see if it can work for us.

I think you could become ok with this part. Be ok being people in transition and that you each will have your own process and you each will handle it differently. It's hard when the "old normal" is gone, and the "new normal" isn't here yet. The "new normal" takes time to arrive.

I will call him on passive aggressive comments sometimes by saying, "What do you mean?" or "Does this bother you?" or "Are you angry?" and try to turn it into a discussion rather than a jab. But he says, "I'm just kidding" or something like that.

I think asking clarifying questions is ok.

If he doesn't want to talk, ask if he's willing to say "I don't want to talk right now" rather than "I'm kidding."

Or you could say "I hear you say "I'm just kidding." You seem angry though. So I am getting mixed messages. I am going to take that "I'm kidding" as "I don't want to talk right now." I willing to talk it out if/when you want to talk. Let me know if you want that." Then leave the room and let him own it.

You can't be his mind reader. But you can let him know this "just kidding" stuff when his face says otherwise doesn't work for you.

He is, generally, passive aggressive, and a moody guy. Not surprisingly, his reactions depend a lot on how he is feeling about himself at the moment. And sometimes I think his dismay is less about Susan than because he doesn't know how to find someone for himself. But that's just me guessing.

I suppose you could be direct and ask. Something like...

"I've noticed a lot of "just kidding" moments where you seem angry about Susan but then tell me you are not. I wonder if this upset is coming from you not knowing how to find someone for yourself. Do I guess wrong? Is it from something else?"

Of course, I still haven't shaken feeling guilty for putting him through all this, so that may be affecting how I hear what he says. I'm trying to figure that out, too.

He chooses to be here. If he does not want poly, he could say "no, thank you." And then you guys are have to talk about Closing back up or letting the marriage go. Because he's experiencing some yucky feelings in transition... that doesn't mean you are doing it TO him.

It sounds like you try to give him opportunities to talk and work things out to help make transition time easier.

I wonder if in your marriage you've been doing a lot of his emotional management for him over the years? And now that he has to do some on his own... it's hard because you feel you are "taking something away" that you always did? And it's hard for him because he's not good at it? Could something like that be at play here?

I think sometimes long term couples can get a bit lost in each other. Like all they remember how do to is be (a couple).

Learning how to be (a couple) and (individuals) and (a bit of separate lives dating others) is a lot of change.

Galagirl
 
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You can take a few different approaches, including ratcheting it up a few notches on the call him out on it method:

He says: "I'm just kidding"
You say: "No, you're not, that's passive aggressive snark. What do you mean?"​

... which runs the risk of putting him on the defensive and shutting down communication. The one I like is to take him at his word. Eventually he'll realise passive aggression doesn't work when it's interpreted literally.

He says:"Oh, I see."
You say: "Good" and move on with your day.​
 
In my experience, passive aggressive comments often come from a frustration with not being heard, or being ridiculed, chastised, or shouted down when you do try to speak plainly.

Feelings tend to come out one way or another and if one party refuses to let the other speak, those feelings will begin to slide out in passive aggressive comments.

Some people are just snarky. But sometimes it's useful to check ourselves and see if we're shutting the other person down, refusing to really listen to, respect, and consider what our behavior is doing to them.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts/insights.

I don't think I shut him down when he need to talk. I more have to draw him out when I need to know things or when he seems to have something weighing on him.

(Re: Pie--I offered it to him and he asked where it came from. So I told him.)

I'll try asking instead of telling him about plans, that makes sense. We've always given each other wide berth to make plans for ourselves--it's more a problem if I make plans for him without consulting him. (Which I don't do.) We have no kids, he works a lot, we have a pretty egalitarian marriage when it comes to chores. And I try never to make plans with anyone else on Sundays, which is usually the only day he doesn't work.

I think my taking on emotional management, as GalaGirl suggests, might be part of it. And simply the stress of transition and change. I've been thinking about that a lot this week. Especially stressful since we're hanging in limbo while Susan figures out if she wants to proceed with this relationship. He dislikes discussing hypotheticals so there a lot of discussions on hold for the time being. And it is stressful to not know what it will be like if/when I get involved again.

We do have one friend I know he's interested in. She knows about our marriage, so I have been encouraging him to pursue her. (I pursued her briefly, but she kinda gave me a runaround so I lost interest.) She seems to really like him. I hope he does, although now I get to be scared about what that might be like.

It's all new and challenging.

Thanks.
 
It sounds to me like you and your husband are both in a transitional phase because poly is new to you. So, I don't think his occasional passive-aggressive comments are a problem; it's just him adjusting to a new normal. Just let him adjust and don't worry about.

Eventually, it will be normal to him that you have dates with Susan (or another woman) and that she is in your life for mundane things like giving you pieces of pie.

Hopefully, with time, he will just say, "Oh wow, pie!" and "Oh, you're going out Friday? Great! That means I can spend Friday night eating Cheetos in my underwear" or whatever.
 
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