Poly and Potential Positive Partners

I struggle to understand why you'd even contemplate that risk with a new partner when you have two loving , healthy partners already.

You may feel the need to add to your life but do they really deserve to have to consider this risk to them as well?

Sex is one thing. Long term affects are another, physically and psychologically.

DH did make a great point about them being Mono ; they choose you and only you , and to put either of them at risk seems unfair. They may say they'll love you regardless if you get the disease , but will they still want to be intimate with you if they knew you (and hence they) are at risk of catching herpes from you, and potentially who knows what else? Is that a chance you want to take for a new partner that you barely know?

Exciting. Yes. Connection. Yes. But I'd step back and remove the emotion and think about this logically first. You have much to lose. Why purposely go down this path when you already have the loves of your life?

Just my thoughts ...
 
Yes on the continued intimacy thing. We had this discussion previously - herpes was never a deal breaker for any of us. It isn't a risk to our long term health, and unless I had specifically asked for my own testing, I wouldn't even know my own status with it.

DarkKnight told me today that he sees it as more of an annoyance, and nothing more. He said he wouldn't hesitate himself, with a partner who was positive. He said he'd try to be careful, but if he caught it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I have definitely been thinking this over lots - it isn't an easy thing for me to suss out my feelings about. This isn't about a lack of options on my part, or me throwing caution out the window. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite - this relationship has me questioning an awful lot. I have never asked anyone to show me the physical papers when they were tested. I just trusted them when they said, hey, I went and got tested, and I am clean for everything. I wonder how many of those people were actually tested for HSV at all. Truthfully, I would be banging this new guy right now without as many cautions if he hadn't gone to a free clinic - his regular doctor never tested for it. So if he had gone there and his doctor told him no change, we would be not even having this discussion. So the fact that he is positive has made me more cautious, definitely not less.

I'm sorry, but DH has ceased to have any relevance to this discussion. To use mono as a slur, as if it is something to be cursed about - all respect gone. And to call my husbands slobs, for what reason? My guys have crazy amounts of integrity and are wonderful people.

I am definitely not letting emotion override logic. If anything, I am spending a lot of time thinking things over and talking about it tons with my guys. I don't want to catch it and I don't want them to catch it. New partner doesn't want to pass it to me. However, we all have the same belief that it isn't the end of the world, and all of our doctors certainly agree with that statement too. The more reading I do, the more pissed off I get when I see how people who have it are treated by people who don't have it. And, when 80% of people who do have DONT EVEN KNOW - come on. I feel like the stigma is complete bullshit.

At this point, I WOULD walk away from new partner if either of my guys said it was a deal breaker. I am willing to push back due to what I have read and discovered, but I do understand that my feelings don't trump theirs when it comes to their personal body autonomy. And if they say they won't be intimate with me if I catch it, then that's a full stop. But they've said the opposite.
 
I am definitely not letting emotion override logic. If anything, I am spending a lot of time thinking things over and talking about it tons with my guys. I don't want to catch it and I don't want them to catch it. New partner doesn't want to pass it to me. However, we all have the same belief that it isn't the end of the world, and all of our doctors certainly agree with that statement too. The more reading I do, the more pissed off I get when I see how people who have it are treated by people who don't have it. And, when 80% of people who do have DONT EVEN KNOW - come on. I feel like the stigma is complete bullshit.

It is sort of amazing that so many people in the poly community stigmatize it as they do. The original stigma revolved around how promiscuous people get it...lol. You'd think poly people would have researched a little better than people who believe everyone should only mate with one person for life. Maybe it's just that ingrained into our culture.

I remember back in 1990 when a girl I was dating told me she had it. She was literally in tears when she told me. She actually thought I would quit seeing her.

I think the only downside to having it must be having to tell people so they can judge you.
 
Bluebird, for the record, I think you're being eminently reasonable about this. You obviously care about the health of everyone in the group, and you obviously aren't coercing anyone. I also appreciate your clear-eyed view against stigmatizing HSV status.

It's not so helpful to me when someone in a poly forum suggests you should be grateful for the partners you have and not need more, or that you must owe them some special sacrifice because of their mono vs poly preferences for themselves (as opposed to because of commitments you all make together, over time, every day).

I also appreciate you bringing the topic forward for others to consider and learn from. Thanks.
 
Hi Bluebird,

It seems to me that you have done your homework, and given careful consideration to all parties involved. That's good enough for me.

I don't know as much about STI's as I should so this is a general question for the thread/forum, but I am thinking that once you get HSV-2, you are stuck with it for life? even though it's not very serious. Am I right in thinking that?

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Yes, there is no vaccine or cure for it. I am reading that one is currently in development, though. I have not looked at that in depth at the moment, however, as it doesn't factor in to my current situation.
 
It isn't a risk to our long term health

It actually is. You should probably do a little more reading. Sadly sometimes we only see or read the things we want to know, not the stuff we don't. We are all guilty of it sometimes.


DarkKnight told me today that he sees it as more of an annoyance, and nothing more. He said he wouldn't hesitate himself, with a partner who was positive. He said he'd try to be careful, but if he caught it, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Sure, until he sees a really bad outbreak and realizes you caught it from another partner.

I have never asked anyone to show me the physical papers when they were tested. I just trusted them when they said

Then why ask for it? Just a formality? That's actually kind of scary.

My guys have crazy amounts of integrity and are wonderful people.

I'm sure they are and I'm sure they do and for that reason I personally would struggle with putting them at ANY kind of risk. I hate to give my loved ones the flu, let alone an STI.

However, we all have the same belief that it isn't the end of the world, and all of our doctors certainly agree with that statement too. The more reading I do, the more pissed off I get when I see how people who have it are treated by people who don't have it.

I wouldn't say it's the end of the world either, but it isn't like catching a cold. It CAN lead to more serious issues and any medical professional that doesn't advise you of that is incompetent.

And if they say they won't be intimate with me if I catch it, then that's a full stop. But they've said the opposite.

Let's just say everyone has the right to change their mind. Hypothetically IF you caught it and you did experience the worst case scenarios with frequent outbreaks and effects, and either or both then changed their mind and said "Yeah, I don't think this is for me. I don't want that.....I'm out. " Would the NRE of being with this new partner be worth it then?

Bluebird, for the record, I think you're being eminently reasonable about this. You obviously care about the health of everyone in the group, and you obviously aren't coercing anyone. I also appreciate your clear-eyed view against stigmatizing HSV status.

In this case, I wouldn't say anyone is stigmatizing HSV patients. But it should be a valid concern to anyone out there sharing partners. There are long term effects and people should have the choice of partaking or not. That's not a stigma, it's ones responsibility towards their own health and that of their other partners.

It's not so helpful to me when someone in a poly forum suggests you should be grateful for the partners you have and not need more, or that you must owe them some special sacrifice because of their mono vs poly preferences for themselves (as opposed to because of commitments you all make together, over time, every day).

I don't feel that anyone is suggesting that Bluebird doesn't need more partners or shouldn't need more; Nor is anyone suggesting that she owes anyone a 'sacrifice' because they are Mono. But at some point, there comes a tipping point, a saturation point, where something is unacceptable. This could potentially be it. There are 7 billion people in the world, she has 2 partners already in a very healthy, loving, stable relationship. Why purposely risk it? If there was a need to add another partner, certainly there could be one that doesn't pose as big a risk? There was. It was Greg and he walked away when he heard the status as well.

Sacrifice is also a big word. How much are the husbands sacrificing to allow yet a third into their world. Time. Energy. Attention. NRE impact. Then to be asked to potentially 'sacrifice' their own sexual health status might be a bit much to ask as well. So it's ok for the Mono partner to sacrifice yet not the Poly partner? Hmmm, seems to be a theme.

She doesn't really know this man yet and who knows where it will lead. All I know is that until I knew for certain this person would be my life partner, I'd hesitate to shoulder that risk and carry the weight of it knowing I could affect my two loves that are already proven and committed.

Not a criticism but another way of thinking about things outside of the NRE and sexual impulses.
 
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I used to think HSV 2 was just a skin issue until Friday.

My coworker ending up in the er with an eye issue that puzzled the doctors. Her boyfriend gave her HSV 2 and it is in her eye. She may lose her vision. They have no idea how it got into her eye. She now has an infection in her cornea.

She is also at risk for Herpes Meningitis.

It is scary stuff.

I am not willing to risk myself or my partners. I am immunocompromised because of having to use steriods to control my asthma.
 
I made the original post and my choices before NRE was a thing. Honestly, I don't have a ton this time through yet. It's actually kind of interesting because it seems to come and go in waves, but that's more for my journal and not really relavant to this discussion. :) I actually talked about herpes with DarkKnight back when we first opened our relationship, and we decided it wasn't a deal breaker then, and we've touched base about it almost every year, in passing. We had a longer conversation when I was dating a different guy, who had a positive partner but had remained negative himself for 5+ years. Our stance on this hasn't changed. However, of course staring at an outbreak in person, could make anyone change their mind, and cause all sorts of emotions, but so could a pregnancy, or any number of things. I think with poly, the best you can do is talk it out, and then hope your decisions work out.

I guess there must be a shit ton of incompetent doctors, because I haven't had any at all tell me that they wanted me to take the HSV tests, ever. And that's with them knowing I was involved with many partners. Even when I asked for it, I got pushback. I am not planning to get pregnant, ever, as I am turning 40 next month, and the other more complicated issues are so out there - I am more likely to get into a car accident driving over to get my freak on than to actually experience something like that.

There are a million and one complications that could happen, but have next to a zero probability of happening, like getting HSV2 in your eye. Jesus, that's wonky. Of course the odds aren't zero, but fuck, that's crazypants.

I'm not immunocompromised. If I was, then honestly, I would have made a different choice.
 
Look into l-lysine for an antiviral alternative. .

If it is 5% for the year, it is 5% of 5% for the year. 1/20X 1/20 = 1/400. That you will both pass on and pass on to your partner in a year. I t. But once you have it- it is 5a% a year to your partner. You will want to adjust for condom use/not.

Where did you get your stats? I'm interested in more accurate caul cations for my own polycule.
 
I just did a lot of googling. I don't have anything saved to my phone though to share, other then this "fact sheet" I initially messaged to PunkRock.

https://herpesopportunity.com/downloads/herpes-opportunity-disclosure-handout.pdf

I know I originally started with WebMD and the CDC websites and then expanded from there. There are a couple of subReddits that I found helpful, that had links as well.
 
While slim bad shit still happens to people. It could happen to anyone who is exposed. Is it worth the risk not just to yourself but to your husbands?

You are not just dealing with your health but potentially theirs too. They may be like Butch who loves me too damn much and would agree with what I would ask because he wants me happy.
 
Livestrong. Reputable. Renowned.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/68568-longterm-effects-herpes-simplex/

Then look at the long term effects of Antivirals like Valtrex; kidney and liver damage and the worst of which is the building of resistance to the virus. This is a growing problem with all STI's these days.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/250766-long-term-side-effects-of-valtrex/

I shudder that your physicians blow it off. In Canada it's a regular routine test when checking for STI's.

"It's not the end of the world" is great advice when you're diagnosed with it but as preventative advice it is irresponsible. If I had the CHOICE, I'd prefer to just say No Thanks. It's not worth the risks.

Good luck to you.
 
Thoughts? Opinions?

I have made up my mind for myself, but if my husbands continue to be worried, I am not sure what to do.



This is from your first post on this thread. Sorry you didn't appreciate my thoughts or opinions. i wasn't trying to insult your partners but rather trying to point the risk reward ratio sucks on their end. Hence the expression " poor slob"...then modified to mono slob....not an insult but more out of pity.

Also I found it funny you discussing the cost of medication and insurance ....so let me get that straight Costco had the drugs for how much and for how long would how many ( 1-3 ) being talking said meds?? And are you personally going to be cover all those costs/ co pays. Who really ends up paying if either or both get infected ??...or even you for that matter. How much changes ...how much intrusion occurs? We talk about demotion, displacement and intrusion but this could be forever intrusion.

I say if you want to play the odds go for it ....good for you :D. Prove everybody wrong. Just know regret is a bitch to live with.

I'm pretty sure I've seen nasty photos of this and it wasn't on the Internet it was in a virology class so I invite those who think it's no big deal so see what that actually looks like. As you can see I've been very busy the past few weeks but If I have time I'll see if I can find some and link it for you.

I did a quick check on photos and there are hundreds if not thousands ....they all list warnings so I'm not linking any. Very easy to find for those interested on hiw this isn't a big deal. God bless
 
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I am not out to "prove anybody wrong." I'm not on a crusade of any sort. You continue to be disrespectful and I have zero wish to engage with you on this topic.

Thanks for the links newstoday. I have read about the increased risk of HIV, and the other topics on the pages, elsewhere. I think it is very interesting to hear how other countries deal with public health issues.
 
There are risks. Most adults understand that LIFE is full of risks. What's the alternative? Live by yourself in a bubble?

IMNSHO, analysis paralysis is a popular way of pretending to face risk while actually avoiding the taking of chances by perpetually needing more research, or better data, or perfect ideal circumstance.

I offered up those articles on viral shedding in order to maybe poke some holes in working up panic over risks associated with HPV.

You can get HSV from Grandma kissing you on the cheek.

You can get HSV from wiping a toddler's nose.

You can get HSV from sitting on a toilet seat or touching a doorknob.

(How can you be certain your food prepaper isn't shedding? :()

If the risk creeps you out, the solution is easy: give up on ever again touching another human being. If someone with whom you're already physically intimate ever touches another person (or a doorknob :eek:), cut them out of your life, immediately & permanently. Keep to yourself. When you absolutely MUST venture out, wear nitryl gloves.

If that sounds too restrictive, then consider the risks, avoid doing anything outright stupid, & move on.
 
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There are risks. Most adults understand that LIFE is full of risks. What's the alternative? Live by yourself in a bubble?

IMNSHO, analysis paralysis is a popular way of pretending to face risk while actually avoiding the taking of chances by perpetually needing more research, or better data, or perfect ideal circumstance.

I offered up those articles on viral shedding in order to maybe poke some holes in working up panic over risks associated with HPV.

You can get HPV from Grandma kissing you on the cheek.

You can get HPV from wiping a toddler's nose.

You can get HPV from sitting on a toilet seat or touching a doorknob.

(How can you be certain your food prepaper isn't shedding? :()

If the risk creeps you out, the solution is easy: give up on ever again touching another human being. If someone with whom you're already physically intimate ever touches another person (or a doorknob :eek:), cut them out of your life, immediately & permanently. Keep to yourself. When you absolutely MUST venture out, wear nitryl gloves.

If that sounds too restrictive, then consider the risks, avoid doing anything outright stupid, & move on.

Sardonic humor has a time and place. This isn't it. Read this thread again. She wasn't talking about potentially getting HPV from a stairway handle or other inane object but contracting HSV2 (HERPES) by having sex with a diagnosed partner.

Don't be so daft and thick , of course there is RISK in everything we do from the moment we step out of bed! I take a risk every time I cross the street but I wouldn't jump out in front of a speeding train with my two children and partner in tow ... chances are someone's gonna get hurt. It's irresponsible. So purposely taking a known risk and risking then the health of two other partners SHOULD give pause for thought. And it obviously has or else Bluebird wouldn't have posed the question!

If STI's weren't a serious issue but considered a minor inconvenience then there wouldn't be testing and treatment. The true risk is that they become nothing more than a "nuisance" and are blown off like this until the treatments become ineffective and the strains are too strong to be treated. Who knows what they can develop into and yes , potential serious side effects.

Sadly one of the common side effects of contracting or living with a partner with HSV2 is the psychological effects. Depression. Sadness. Hopelessness. Confusion. Anxiety. Low self esteem.

As long term forum members, we follow the blogs and know the stories of family members that are currently struggling with many of these issues already , then YES, you're damn right we will be concerned and offer another point of view. That's not being fatalistic or paranoid or crazy or disrespectful, it's offering the "thoughts and opinions" that were requested. If one doesn't like the answers, one shouldn't pose the question.


So, he is experiencing a rather large amount of stress and it's leaking out all over our relationship. His uncertainty breeds anxiety with me, and since he doesn't communicate well, I am frustrated and confused about what is going on with him.

So given this, written today, do you think a HSV2 infection will help this anxiety? Do you think that perhaps, as another member pointed out, he is agreeing only because he loves her? I can't see this added concern helping matters.

Regardless, her decision is made but I don't feel it's overly cautious for anyone to consider potential health threats where you already KNOW it's an issue. Shaming those that take their sexual health seriously is completely irresponsible and unnecessary.
 
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Firstly, I went back & corrected my uses of HPV to the HSV I'd intended. Apologies to anyone tripped up by that gaffe.

That aside, I'm going to open by pointing out that acyclovir is NOT a panacaea. Side effect may include
Common (1% to 10%): Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, gingival pain (buccal tablet), aphthous stomatitis (buccal tablet) ... Headache, dizziness ... Erythema, rashes (including photosensitivity), pruritus, hives ... Lethargy, fatigue, fever
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Sore throat ... Urticaria, accelerated diffuse hair loss ... Leg pain ... Anorexia ...
Rare (0.01% to 0.1%): Elevated blood urea nitrogen, elevated creatinine ... Reversible bilirubin and liver related enzymes ...Anaphylaxis ... Dyspnea
And now on to the squawking...
Read this thread again. She wasn't talking about potentially getting HSV from a stairway handle or other inane object but contracting HSV2 (HERPES) by having sex with a diagnosed partner.
Umm... no. I'll set aside the passive-aggressive elision you made (including the double p-a "inane" crack), skipping neatly from "stairway handles" (a weird choice of noun, but okey-dokey :D) to the ever-scary HSV2.

Maybe YOU are referring to the wrong thread entirely. In THIS thread right here, HSV1 was brought up from the very beginning, AND responses have lumped the two together. For example,
I have always and continue to be, negative for both HSV 1 & 2.

My very best friend in the world has herpes 1 & 2.
My husbands are both monogamous and they are clear or all STIs including HSV1 & 2.
I got a cold sore shortly after fluid bonding with a partner who has never had a positive test, and have another partner whom knows he's HSV2 positive.
...he gave his college GF herpes. ...he found out he had HSV 1 -- so most likely oral and transmitted to his GF's genitals through oral sex

... HSV is much more contagious within the first year of contracting it.
So, there is confusion. You did not see fit to address it, & in fact seem unable to see it.

I am not the only one to sense that there's a LOT of sex-negative moralizing going on here -- rather snootily self-righteous, IMNSHO -- with people speaking from their various high horses, yet magically conferring upon themselves the freedom to insult & deride their "lessers" as somehow acting morally superior... like, how my offering a differential viewpoint is SHAMING the poor fragile little dears. :eek:

newtoday, it'd be cool if you demonstrate capability of setting aside childish insults as a first resort, & learn to present a viewpoint in a cogent logical form. Until that happy day, I'm going to defer to the OP --
There are a million and one complications that could happen, but have next to a zero probability of happening, like getting HSV2 in your eye. Jesus, that's wonky. Of course the odds aren't zero, but fuck, that's crazypants.
I wonder how many of those people were actually tested for HSV at all. Truthfully, I would be banging this new guy right now without as many cautions if he hadn't gone to a free clinic - his regular doctor never tested for it. So if he had gone there and his doctor told him no change, we would be not even having this discussion.

The more reading I do, the more pissed off I get when I see how people who have it are treated by people who don't have it. And, when 80% of people who do have DONT EVEN KNOW - come on. I feel like the stigma is complete bullshit.
There ya go: not merely bullshit, but completely so.

:p
 
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