Poly is not for me

[stuckinlimbo]

I have been with my husband for 20+ years. We have been swingers and had girls that were friends with benefits. He always thought we should have an actual girlfriend. We recently tried having a poly triad, I thought maybe I could live that life. It turned out horribly. I realized I didn't actually want to share him all day every day, and certainly not on that type of emotional level.


In the beginning, I tried talking to both of them when I had a problem with something. It would consistently be brushed off or just laughed at like why would we change anything when the 2 of them were fine with whatever it was. So I started talking to only him. He would get angry at me, but tell me if this isn't what I wanted that we should break up with the gf. He would tell me he wasn't trying to keep her around, that this was more for me than him. That her being around made me take care of him less, and he didn't like it. Sure, he liked the physical aspects, but it wasn't about her.


This was a hot flash in the pan, there was maybe a month where everything was going well, 2 months of relationship hell for me just going further and further down her leaning more and more into him, and the past month has been a breakup nightmare.


I have searched and read anything I can find that even comes close to this (not much) but I do realize we did everything you could possibly do wrong in regards to new relationship energy, and in trying to be poly. I realized after (of course, right?) the fact that I am definitely not poly. I have no desire to have emotionally romantic relationships outside of his and mine together or singly.


So my question isn't exactly about what we did wrong, or how to be poly. I know that it's not something I can do and don't want to do. More so my question relates to what to do now. The fallout and how to repair my relationship with my husband.


He continues to tell me that because he wasn't in the same place I was emotionally at the end of the relationship with her that he needs more time to move on. He gets angry at me for not leaving him alone to "grieve". Meanwhile he's been a mess emotionally, and I'm lost without him being him so I've been a mess. I don't care about the girlfriend, my stance is I couldn't handle to be around her and there was just pure relief she was gone and not between us anymore. On top of that I feel angry at myself for ever trying this in the first place. I'm upset at him for what I see as him pining away for her still really just wanting her and worrying about her. And she won't just leave us in peace.


I kept telling him things like she stops you or gets angry and throws a fit every time you touch me (this was a constant problem), she would lie about something to be with him in private, he would get mad at me for something but if she did something that should have upset him it was no big deal, I told him she was trying to come between us and wanted him to leave me. He would tell me that's not how it is, or he didn't see things that way.


Since the breakup she has been manipulating him to talk to her, and admitting to all the things I had told him. So he is finally seeing that I wasn't just being crazy, and those things were really going on. She's actually gotten extremely nasty to me, telling me I'm on a sinking ship that he wants her and not me, how i wont be able to wash the tate of her out of my mouth and she hopes i gag on it, chasing him down while we were out one night and trying to get him by himself, posting things on social media to get "even" with me. He justifies all the things she says and does as just her being upset. I feel like he should be my champion, my knight, instead of trying to "help" her. At this point I don't understand how her hurting me is okay, how he could want to even think about her in any positive light. He thinks I'm being petty. And that because he's with me and not running over to her that shows he's on my side. I don't feel like it does. They agreed to text for closure a few days ago, and then to not talk again. She went attention seeking the following night, sending me nasty texts and then sending him texts to have fun with that. When he didn't respond, she probably sent 50 more texts, and started calling him from a burn number. He responded to herand she spewed violent crap for hours towards me, kept telling him she loved him, and she wanted him, said she was showing up at our house, threatened to take our son away. When he finally stopped responding to her she called from 3 or 4 different numbers at least 30 times and texted him non stop for hours.


He still physically wants her, he still has some sort of care for her. I can't understand this? I'm having a really hard time with being supportive about any of it, and I really just don't know what to do. The spiteful side of me wants to hit back at her, which I haven't done. I have been mostly silent.


I don't sleep well or i want to just stay in bed all day, I literally feel like a yoyo any time there is some semblance of hope she pops her head back up. I tremble, I don't eat or if I do it makes me nauseous (i have lost 30+ pounds the past 3 months), I cry.... a lot.


All 3 of us made a bunch of mistakes, mine being the biggest for ever even thinking I could do this in the first place.

Since she blew up his phone things have again felt hopeful, but they aren't right. And I feel like at any moment she's going to start in on him again. He is still justifying what she does.

How do him and I get past this, how do I rationalize to myself him still wanting her? I am an extremely private person, so I have really only talked to him. He feels like i make it all about me, but I just dont know what I am suppose to do. I try to get him to think about it from my perspective, and he really won't he just says he never would have put himself in the position I am in.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have been with my husband for 20+ years. We have been swingers and had girls that were friends with benefits. He always thought we should have an actual girlfriend. We recently tried having a poly triad, I thought maybe I could live that life. It turned out horribly. I realized I didn't actually want to share him all day every day, and certainly not on that type of emotional level.

Welcome to the board. Being in a triad doesn't have to mean you share each other all day, every day, especially right at the beginning. Even if you'd all been together a year and decided to live together, you each could have your own rooms and share space and time, taking turns. It should never be a threesome 24/7. Each dyad needs its own space.

Wow, talk about a triad gone wrong. Right off the bat, let me tell you that triads usually turn out this way, but not quite to this psychotic degree lol. You're not alone. Triads and vetoes are not the way to go in polyamory. Vs are better. Poly couples should never try to date the same person, even though that's how it is depicted in mainstream media, because it's considered "hot," and it sells ads.

Read the book Opening Up. Even if you feel dead-set against poly right now, it will help you see why this crashed and burned so spectacularly.

Also, read this article: So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter? https://davidlnoble.livejournal.com/176039.html


I'm sorry you're hurting. Let's try and make a plan for healing.

In the beginning, I tried talking to both of them when I had a problem with something. It would consistently be brushed off or just laughed at, like, why would we change anything when the 2 of them were fine with whatever it was.?

Um, because in a triad it takes 3 to tango? It sounds like your husband, let's call him Jim, was caught up in NRE (new relationship energy) and had eyes only for new gf (let's call her Ann).

So I started talking to only Jim.

So you had a veto agreement that if you both didn't get along with her exactly equally, she had to be dumped. This kind of arrangement is wrong, on many levels. Jim misses her. Ann misses him and has demonized you. Your marriage is in a shambles.

He would tell me he wasn't trying to keep her around, that this was more for me than him.

It sounds like both of you claimed Ann was for the other one, and meanwhile, Ann only wanted to rope Jim off for herself (cowgirling).

There was a month where everything was going well, 2 months of relationship hell, and the past month has been a nightmare.

Awful!

I have searched and can't find anything.

There is a ton of threads on here about triads gone wrong. Literally dozens, if not hundreds. Do a search.

I realize we did everything you could possibly do wrong. I am definitely not poly.

OK! Good to know. Hard way to learn the lesson, but here we are.

My question is, what to do now?


He continues to tell me he needs more time to move on. He gets angry at me for not leaving him alone to "grieve".

Fair enough. Some people need to be alone to grieve, especially men. It's seen as unmanly to cry.

Meanwhile he's been a mess emotionally, and I'm lost without him being him so I've been a mess. I couldn't handle the gf and there was just pure relief she was gone. I feel angry at myself for ever trying this in the first place. I'm upset at him for pining away for her

This will take time to heal. I started out doing poly in the same dumb way, back in 1999. I was so distraught, I needed Zoloft and a year of therapy with a poly-friendly therapist, just to function. Our marriage eventually failed.

I kept telling him things like she stops you or gets angry and throws a fit every time you touch me (this was a constant problem),

Some poly people do have issues with seeing PDAs. But in a triad, that is not supposed to be the case. In an actual healthy triad, sharing sexy space would be a given, and seeing your partners make love would be a turn-on or at least make you feel warm and fuzzy. Of course, this rarely happens.

He would get mad at me for something, but if she did something that should have upset him it was no big deal.

That's his NRE for his adorable new and shiny pet.

I told him she was trying to come between us and wanted him to leave me. He would tell me that's not how it is, or he didn't see things that way.

So you were right.

Since the breakup she has been manipulating him to talk to her, and admitting to all the things I had told him. So he is finally seeing that those things were really going on. She's gotten extremely nasty to me, telling me I'm on a sinking ship, that he wants her and not me, how I wont be able to wash the taste of her out of my mouth and she hopes I gag on it.

Stop talking to her.

chasing him down while we were out one night and trying to get him by himself, posting things on social media to get "even" with me. He justifies all the things she says and does as just her being upset.

It's the aftermath of the veto you both agreed to. If you didn't have the veto rule, MAYBE he could continue to date her on his own, and do parallel poly, where you women never see each other or talk to each other.

I feel like he should be my champion, my knight, instead of trying to "help" her.

You feel you deserve his loyalty as the first wife, and here's new and shiny chick getting all the attention and benefit of the doubt. Despite the veto, he is still in touch with her.

At this point I don't understand how her hurting me is okay, how he could want to even think about her in any positive light. He thinks I'm being petty. And that because he's with me and not running over to her that shows he's on my side. I don't feel like it does.

A good therapist can help you two see eye to eye. At least it's worth a shot.

They agreed to text for closure a few days ago, and then to not talk again. She went attention seeking the following night, sending me nasty texts and sending him texts. She probably sent 50 texts, and started calling him from a burn number. He responded to her and she spewed violent crap for hours towards me.

He should have hung up. And you didn't need to hear all about what she said.

kept telling him she loved him, and she wanted him, said she was showing up at our house, threatened to take our son away.

You didn't need to hear all that.

When he finally stopped responding to her she called from 3 or 4 different numbers at least 30 times and texted him non stop for hours.

You want him to go "no contact" with her. Blowing up his phone like this is insane. He should never respond to her, and if she keeps using different numbers to contact him maybe he needs to change his phone number, and block her on social media. If she comes knocking on your door, that's trespassing and police should be called.

He still physically wants her, he still has some sort of care for her. I just don't know what to do. The spiteful side of me wants to hit back at her, which I haven't done.

Don't hit back. If you need a break from it all, you could go stay with a friend for a while. Show your h just how upset and overwrought you are. It's OK to need a break.

I don't sleep well or i want to just stay in bed all day, any time there is some semblance of hope she pops her head back up. I tremble. if I eat it makes me nauseous. (I have lost 30+ pounds the past 3 months), I cry... a lot.

I lost weight, laid in bed all day, and scream-cried too, when this thing happened to me (although his gf wasn't acting like this). I just couldn't believe how strong his NRE was. He'd claimed all our life to be mono, loyal to me, and here he was, head over heels for her. But anyway, yeah, I was clinically depressed and needed medical help.

All 3 of us made a bunch of mistakes, mine being the biggest for ever even thinking I could do this in the first place.

Now, now. You didn't realize. Try not to beat yourself up.

Since she blew up his phone things have again felt hopeful, but they aren't right. And I feel like at any moment she's going to start in on him again. He is still justifying what she does.

It's an uneasy truce and you're on high alert. Has he blocked her as much as possible.
I hope venting it all out, and my words have helped validate what you're going through a little.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better for airing out.

This is all so ... WOW.

SHORT VERSION

It is ok to decide that you don't want to do anything poly and want to drop out of the triad thing.

FWIW? Here is what sticks out to me. And I could be wrong in my impressions.

People bungle triads all the time going in underprepared. That's rough. But this one is so EXTRA. It sounds like it wasn't a "regular" mistake thing. But going off into harassment/stalker/verbal abuse land.

It sounds like both of you broke up with her at this point and are having very different experiences of it and making sense of not just the bungled triad part of it but experiencing verbal abuse and harassment.

In the verbal abuse time line? He's just NOW getting some and starting to see true colors. Where you've been dealing with it longer. She's ALSO gone stalker weirdo at him now.

You didn't feel safe before. And you don't feel safe yet. And you normally rely on spouse in hard times, but he's unfit for that job because he's in grief mode himself. And now he's feeling unsafe and prob didn't expect or knows how to handle a woman stalker. (Men in particular are sometimes reticent about naming verbal abuse abuse. Cuz "men don't cry" and "That just doesn't happen to men.")

And you weren't out as poly so you don't really have other people to talk to about all this -- the triad part. So who do you talk to about triad gone SUPER BAD into harassment weirdness?

Is that about it? If so? I'm glad you tried to reach out here. I'm sorry this is going down like this. I'm sorry it is THIS BAD and still not over over.

You seem to acknowledge mistakes were made and you didn't realize it til after the fact with this triad thing.

Do you realize you are at risk NOW of dinging your relationship with spouse because you want him to be like Superman or something? And maybe making mistakes in the grief process and not realizing that til after the fact?

You may be used to turning to each other for comfort, but in this case? Because it is not "regular triad doom" but EXTRA?

It may be better to seek professional people OUTSIDE the triad system to lean on for grief support and getting away from harassment/abuse support. Maybe you want to look at a poly counselor if you can afford that? I don't know if this helps you.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

Maybe it helps you to look at it like a list to start organizing material for counselor?

HIM

• He needs more time to move on.
• He wants time and space to "grieve alone." He does not want your help/interaction with that.
  • He prefers help from a counselor? Someone else?
• His ex has turned stalker/harasser weirdo on him.
  • Maybe he's trying to reconcile "How could someone I cared about treat me like this?"
  • He might also be dealing with "Men don't get harassed. You are making it up" worries
• His spouse (you) is pressuring him to hurry up and ditch the weirdo lady, DO something, be my knight in shining armor and defend my honor, hurry up with your grief and help me with mine, and do it like yesterday.

YOU

You need your own grief support.

• You feel lost without him being his usual him.
• If he's not fit for this job, you will be getting grief support help from a counselor? Somewhere else?

You are coping with mixed feelings

• You regret/are angry at yourself for trying it out in the first place and going in underprepared
• You are relieved to be out of the triad.
• You are upset the person you tried to triad treated you poorly
  • And she's getting worse and not just weirdo but scary/harasser/stalker level weirdo
• Watching his grief process over the break up AND his acceptance process for "I dated a weirdo" bothers you.
• You think he's pining away for her

You want reassurance he isn't still love blind (I'm guessing on these)

• You want him to apologize to you for blowing you off when you would raise concerns early on
• You want to hear him say she is crazy town so you can feel emotionally safe with HIM again because he used to blow you off.
• He's too stunned to be able to process ANY of it well.
  • The best he can do is break up with her, side with you, and agree she's upset and doing inappropriate things.
  • This is not satisfactory to you even though it's basically over for him and he showed her the door. But still shaking out with her and her bad leaving behaviors.
  • Because you want him to SCREAM IT that she's wackadoo and this was all a bad situation
  • Because you really want to hear that he loves you, he's sorry you had to go through all this, and yeah. That was like the worst intro to poly ever.

HER

She behaves inappropriately and is harassing, verbally abusing, etc. the both of you

• You can block her on all your numbers, email, social media etc.
• If she continues to bother him, you can let it be his problem.
  • You disconnected your things. He can figure out how to disconnect and block his things.
• You can ask him not to talk about her right now to you and encourage him to talk to a poly counselor instead.
• If need be you can remind him that he can start a log of incidents and think about next steps like restraining order.

That was short version. Here's part 2. (cont)

 

[GalaGirl]

LONGER VERSION

All of this?

I kept telling him things like she stops you or gets angry and throws a fit every time you touch me (this was a constant problem), she would lie about something to be with him in private, he would get mad at me for something but if she did something that should have upset him it was no big deal, I told him she was trying to come between us and wanted him to leave me. He would tell me that's not how it is, or he didn't see things that way.

That was in the past. She behaved poorly at you while being sweet to him. I don't knwo if she was a cowgirl or a wacko or both or what.

If you need to talk about this with someone to help you process, please talk to a counselor. None of this was healthy or normal.

And you talking to a grieving person who used to be in NRE lalas? Maybe the right person. NOT the right time. So all you do is waste your breath and get yourself frustrated if you try to have that conversation with him right now. Again... none of this was healthy or normal.

You are ready to see/talk about all the things that went wrong/were handled badly. He's not ready.

Look what you wrote:

Since the breakup she has been manipulating him to talk to her, and admitting to all the things I had told him. So he is finally seeing that I wasn't just being crazy, and those things were really going on. She's actually gotten extremely nasty to me, telling me I'm on a sinking ship that he wants her and not me, how i wont be able to wash the tate of her out of my mouth and she hopes i gag on it, chasing him down while we were out one night and trying to get him by himself, posting things on social media to get "even" with me.

He's only NOW seeing her true colors. So he's going to be very disoriented right now. Who he thought she was? Was not that. It was THIS.

Do not let your own impatience, fear, or anxiety take over so you end up rushing him or pestering him. Talk to a counselor about what you are going through. This is SO much... I strongly suggest professional help.

He justifies all the things she says and does as just her being upset. I feel like he should be my champion, my knight, instead of trying to "help" her.

I think you could look up the break up stages of grief for your own self and for understanding him. Along with affects of verbal abuse.

I'm an outsider and I don't know any of you. To me? It sounds like you are at different stages of break up grief. Like you want him to be instantly over her. When it is a process.

It also sounds like you want him to "defend me to her" when really? Nobody actually has to JADE here.

You don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain why you wanted to drop out of this triad or what you think she's wackadoodle.

He's getting a clearer view now. With THIS new load of wacky. She's harassing him, denigrating you, verbal abuse, etc and coming in at a high emotional volume.

At this point I don't understand how her hurting me is okay,

It's not ok. You can disconnect or block her from all your things.

how he could want to even think about her in any positive light.

Because his grief and break up experience of her are DIFFERENT than yours. You saw it during the triad.

He's only just NOW seeing the wackadoodle since the break up. What was that? DAYS ago?

You may have brought up issues during triad that he blew off. And feel angry about that. But guess what? It's OVER for you. You will no longer have triad issues from her.

You can afford to be patient and lower the emotional volume on your side.

Cuz he's going to go into shut down mode (and sounds like he is) if he has her coming in at high emotional volume on one side. And then you on the other.

He thinks I'm being petty. And that because he's with me and not running over to her that shows he's on my side. I don't feel like it does.

You aren't being petty. You might be overwhelming him though.

What do you need from him then? To show he's on your side WHILE he's also a grieving/ is a harassment victim?

That is realistic and reasonable to expect from such a person?

She went attention seeking the following night, sending me nasty texts and then sending him texts to have fun with that. When he didn't respond, she probably sent 50 more texts, and started calling him from a burn number. He responded to her and she spewed violent crap for hours towards me, kept telling him she loved him, and she wanted him, said she was showing up at our house, threatened to take our son away. When he finally stopped responding to her she called from 3 or 4 different numbers at least 30 times and texted him non stop for hours.

Ugh. This sounds horrible. For HOURS? Sounds like he got caught all "deer int he headlights" and didn't know how to say "Stop. This is too much. I'm hanging up now." And just block the phone.

He's trying to not respond to her and trying to detangle himself.

I don't know if you overheard the conversation because you live there too. Or he was telling you about it in gory detail when he could have summarized and spared you some of it.

But this level of whooshy harassment can knock people off balance. BOTH of you have been knocked off balance here.

You could step back and let him deal with her. And if he wants to start logging the incidents in prep for a cease and desist lawyer letter or filing for a restraining order -- how far he wants to take it is up to him.

She's harassing him. He could save screenshots, texts, etc.

Including him sending her a "Stop sending me this stuff. We are broken up." It's all evidence.

And you know what? He may be too in a daze or "deer in the headlights" to even think of that. So might you.

Again... I encourage you to talk to a professional counselor. Internet people might be able to help with one issue or two but this is HUGE and not healthy or normal. This needs professional help.

He still physically wants her, he still has some sort of care for her. I can't understand this? I'm having a really hard time with being supportive about any of it, and I really just don't know what to do. The spiteful side of me wants to hit back at her, which I haven't done. I have been mostly silent.

They JUST broke up. Desire takes time to fade.

He's in the "How can someone I care about treat me bad like this" place. A similar place where abuse victims live.

Remain silent WHILE you step back away from the splash zone for your own well being. Disconnect and block all your things from her. If you cannot TAKE AWAY from his burdens? At least do not ADD to his burdens. That might be all the support you can reasonably and rationally do for him right now when YOU yourself are unwell.

Expect him to deal with his splash zone from her himself.

And seek a counselor for yourself. Get a health check up with your family practice. Maybe request a short run of sleep meds or anxiety or whatever it is.

Set some boundaries with him about her. Respect his boundaries.

• Could tell him you would like to make a "time out" space for both.
  • You are going to honor his request to leave him alone to grieve and deal with his things with her himself. You will stop bugging him on that.
  • In return? You would like him NOT to tell you about it when she calls to bug him some more. You would like to be left alone on that. You are losing sleep, not eatin right, losing weight, depressed, crying, and it is affecting your well being.
• You will be seeking support for your grief things and verbal abuse things from a counselor. And you encourage him to think about one for himself.
• You will be going to your family practice to talk about stress, lack of sleep, and so on. You encourage him to attend to his health things also.
• You would like to be there for each other through this but at this time? It might be better to deal with grief things alone for a bit so heads can cool off some first. So you don't turn on each other.
• You would like to check in after X weeks of "time out" and determine if couple counseling might be needed and what else needs to happen if the harassment continues.

That might be fair enough for now. What do you think?

You might also consider a vacation break.

Go visit family or friends on your own. Or go hotel for a bit.

I try to get him to think about it from my perspective

Why? And why AT THIS TIME?

If you need to hear something from him, how about you take the shortcut and just TELL HIM what you want to hear? Like...

"Spouse, I need kind words right now. Could you please be willing to say this to me and give me a hug? ​

"I'm sorry you had a break up. I'm sorry this is going so wacko. I'm sorry hard on you right now."​

You sound like you need to be seen in your context.

FWIW? This whole thing sucks! I am sorry you went into triad underprepared and it ended like THIS. Like not "regular triad doom from underprepared" but that plus so much EXTRA with the wacko!

Breathe. Take things one day at a time. Hour by hour if needed.

• It's ok to decide you don't want poly.
• It's ok for your experience of this sucky thing to be different than his experience of this sucky thing.
  • Even if the view is from different balconies? It still sucked. You both broke up with her for reasons.
  • And now in the aftermath? She's not going quiet and it STILL goes on sucking.

So how about both agreeing this is a rough situation on both of you? And not nitpicking it to death?

So you both can figure out what you each need to do to FINISH getting out of the woods?

Which may include giving each other a time out space? And setting up some counseling?

 

[stuckinlimbo]

Welcome to the board. Being in a triad doesn't have to mean you share each other all day, every day, especially right at the beginning. Even if you'd all been together a year and decided to live together, you each could have your own rooms and share space and time, taking turns. It should never be a threesome 24/7. Each dyad needs its own space.

Wow, talk about a triad gone wrong. Right off the bat, let me tell you that triads usually turn out this way, but not quite to this psychotic degree lol. You're not alone. Triads and vetoes are not the way to go in polyamory. Vs are better. Poly couples should never try to date the same person, even though that's how it is depicted in mainstream media, because it's considered "hot," and it sells ads.

Read the book Opening Up. Even if you feel dead-set against poly right now, it will help you see why this crashed and burned so spectacularly.

Also, read this article: So Someone Called You a Unicorn Hunter? https://davidlnoble.livejournal.com/176039.html


I'm sorry you're hurting. let's try and make a plan for healing.


Um, because in a triad it takes 3 to tango? It sounds like your husband, let's call him Jim, was caught up in NRE (new relationship energy) and had eyes only for new gf (let's call her Ann).

So you had a veto agreement that if you both didn't get along with her exactly equally, she had to be dumped. This kind of arrangement is wrong, on many levels. Jim misses her. Ann misses him and has demonized you. Your marriage is in a shambles.

It sounds like both of you claimed Ann was for the other one, and meanwhile, Ann only wanted to rope Jim off for herself (cowgirling).

Awful!

There is a ton of threads on here about triads gone wrong. Literally dozens, if not hundreds. Do a search.

OK! Good to know. Hard way to learn the lesson, but here we are.

Fair enough. Some people need to be alone to grieve, especially men. It's seen as unmanly to cry.

This will take time to heal. I started out doing poly in the same dumb way, back in 1999. I was so distraught, I needed Zoloft and a year of therapy with a poly-friendly therapist, just to function. Our marriage eventually failed.

Some poly people do have issues with seeing PDAs. But in a triad, that is not supposed to be the case. In an actual healthy triad, sharing sexy space would be a given, and seeing your partners make love would be a turn-on or at least make you feel warm and fuzzy. Of course, this rarely happens.

That's his NRE for his adorable new and shiny pet.

So you were right.

Stop talking to her.

It's the aftermath of the veto you both agreed to. If you didn't have the veto rule, MAYBE he could continue to date her on his own, and do parallel poly, where you women never see each other or talk to each other.

You feel you deserve his loyalty as the first wife, and here's new and shiny chick getting all the attention and benefit of the doubt. Despite the veto, he is still in touch with her.

A good therapist can help you two see eye to eye. At least it's worth a shot.

He should have hung up. And you didn't need to hear all about what she said.

You didn't need to hear all that.

You want him to go "no contact" with her. Blowing up his phone like this is insane. He should never respond to her, and if she keeps using different numbers to contact him maybe he needs to change his phone number, and block her on social media. If she comes knocking on your door, that's trespassing and police should be called.

Don't hit back. If you need a break from it all, you could go stay with a friend for a while. Show your h just how upset and overwrought you are. It's OK to need a break.

I lost weight, laid in bed all day, and scream-cried too, when this thing happened to me (although his gf wasn't acting like this). I just couldn't believe how strong his NRE was. He'd claimed all our life to be mono, loyal to me, and here he was, head over heels for her. But anyway, yeah, I was clinically depressed and needed medical help.

Now, now. You didn't realize. Try not to beat yourself up.

It's an uneasy truce and you're on high alert. Has he blocked her as much as possible.
I hope venting it all out, and my words have helped validate what you're going through a little.

Not sure how to reply to things in order like you did. I do really appreciate your thoughtful responses. To the first parts, hindsight of course is 20/20 as far as not going about the whole thing correctly from the start. There was an article I read about NRE (after of course ) that basically every single thing on the list not to do, we did. I really wish I would have done more research previously. But honestly, I thought swinging and random sexual encounters prepared me.... boy was I wrong.

I will definitely look at the book and read the article after I respond to you.

I think my main problem with any of the threads I have seen is nothing seems to match up to what we are going through. I know that no relationships are going to be exactly the same, but I haven't found anything that mirrors this enough to find comfort in what's said if that makes sense?

I really haven't talked to her since the breakup, I blocked her on social media because she posted a ton of crap right off the bat and I didnt want to see it or for her to keep tabs on me either, I should have blocked her number too. I did tell her to stop it the other night when she was chasing after him. I got a bunch of bullshit from her and then a emoji. She knew we were going to be out that night, it was a planned event so again she purposefully tried to make things harder.

I thought about letting him see her by himself (I honestly think that would make me have a complete mental breakdown however) he wanted it to be with me only not solo. He thinks I should have weaned off the relationship rather than cold turkey, however the ending was pushed for by him the day it happened because he was upset that I wasn't being nice to her while we were on a vacation. I was responding to things she was doing and saying very negatively. And couldn't pretend that everything was fine.

I did bring up therapy (normally I have an extreme aversion to it from childhood), he wasn't receptive. He did say maybe I should talk to someone about my anger and hurt. I don't see how justme doing it would be very helpful, because I do know there are two sides to every story (or 3 in this case but I'm certainly not interested in fixing things with her).

The talk they had the day before her going nuts on his phone I had him delete so I didn't have to know about it. We have always been very open and honest to eachother. And yes of course I want the no contact, he had already agreed to that the precious day. However when she started using emotional blackmail on him it worked, and it would work again. The I'm coming to your house (she was told we would call the cops), saying she wanted to shoot herself on our front lawn so he would have to hold her and deal with that for the rest of his life, telling him she wants him and loves him and would give him everything he could ever want. Maybe changing his number would be the only way to actually block her but for work his number would be published regardless, so I don't think that would actually work.

The really sad thing is I don't want to be away from him, he's my best friend. I want to get through it with him. I also don't know how to not "hit back", because I want him to see me too.

How are you now, I know you said the relationship failed. But how are you.

As to not beating myself up, that's hard when not only am I blaming myself but he is too. He's still mad at me. Don't know what to do with that.

And yes I am on high alert, I may have ptsd from the sound of his phone which seems silly but it makes my stomach drip and chest tight. He sent her one more text saying he's not doing that with her again, and finally told her he loves and values me (previous talks were just how he missed her and wished things were different). She didn't respond, but who knows what the future brings. Even after all of that though he said he wasn't going to flatout say he wouldn't have contact with her if he thought he needed to. And he still justifies the vile things she said as she's just angry and upset.

I do feel like yesterday was a better day (certainly the best day we had in the past 30+). I'm still hurt that he has any value for her. I don't actually believe he would want her by herself, or that he wants to leave me for her. But he has romanticized her and isn't taking into account all the bad so that he isn't still wanting her physically or wanting to help her mentally. How do you get past that? How do I get past that so that little things don't send me into a spiral?


*edit to add I'm reading galagirls post now and will respond to that because she does have a bunch of huge points about where I am vs where he is

 

[GalaGirl]

I think my main problem with any of the threads I have seen is nothing seems to match up to what we are going through. I know that no relationships are going to be exactly the same, but I haven't found anything that mirrors this enough to find comfort in what's said if that makes sense?

Def some poly hell.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Prob some cowgirl-ing with her trying to rope him off for herself.

But the harassment and verbal abuse layer? Poly is a small slice of the population and then abused poly people a smaller slice. Not a lot of people want to share those stories. I had to help a friend leave her abusive ex husband who turned on her after they opened up. It was NOT pretty.

You may have to turn to non-poly abuse resources and stories.

Here is healthy relationship wheel.

https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/fpntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_2019-03-01.pdf

Anyone can be abusive, not just men. When you click on the tactic category it lists types of behaviors. Here are tactics.

Tactics of psychological abuse and power and control used by men against their female partners

An extensive list of tactics men use to psychologically abuse, control, manipulate and isolate women. Tactics of emotional abuse, intimidation and power and control.

speakoutloud.net

Your spouse approaching poly dating like a "group project" did not help. And your "just end it" break up style doesn't have to match his "wean it off" break up style. You are separate individuals even if sometimes you are a couple. A break up doesn't have to be a "group project" either.

Could ask him to put his phone on "vibrate" so you don't have to hear her crazy calls coming again. If he doesn't want to block? He can at least make it so you don't have to hear his phone blowing up if she goes on another campaign.

The talk they had the day before her going nuts on his phone I had him delete so I didn't have to know about it. We have always been very open and honest to eachother. And yes of course I want the no contact, he had already agreed to that the precious day. However when she started using emotional blackmail on him it worked, and it would work again. The I'm coming to your house (she was told we would call the cops), saying she wanted to shoot herself on our front lawn so he would have to hold her and deal with that for the rest of his life, telling him she wants him and loves him and would give him everything he could ever want. Maybe changing his number would be the only way to actually block her but for work his number would be published regardless, so I don't think that would actually work.

Jeez.

Honestly? After reading that I am kinda hoping she does show up on the lawn and so you call the cops. Then it's more evidence with OTHER witnesses to these behaviors for a restraining order.

Or she blows up his work phone. Also evidence with other witnesses. And maybe a wake up call for spouse to BLOCK HER if his work goes "WTH, dude?" They can give him a new work number, but they aren't gonna do that all the time.

And he personally does not have to help her with whatever is causing these behaviors. Even if he was a mental health professional? It would be conflict of interest. At best, giving her a list of names.

I did bring up therapy (normally I have an extreme aversion to it from childhood), he wasn't receptive. He did say maybe I should talk to someone about my anger and hurt. I don't see how justme doing it would be very helpful, because I do know there are two sides to every story (or 3 in this case but I'm certainly not interested in fixing things with her).

YOU could stop doing things like "group project."

Therapy could help YOU get some grief support and some help/guidance for how to continue to navigate this fall out from a harasser. Til it is DONE done? It's gonna take a toll on your mental health. And you need help keeping your end of the marriage together.

What husband does on his end? Remains to be seen. This is still shaking out and BOTH of you are under duress as the harassment continues.

 

[stuckinlimbo]

I hope you feel better for airing out.

*figured out how to respond in line.

A little, even with the people who knew don't understand and I'm no really comfortable going into all the details with them.

I feel a huge amount of embarrassment over all of it ontop of everything else, and the feeling of everyone know that he's not happy with me and that I feel deficient.

He gets upset with me about that and twists it that I must think hes in the wrong or "broken", i try to tell him its just the feeling i have not about him being broken.

This is all so ... WOW.

SHORT VERSION

It is ok to decide that you don't want to do anything poly and want to drop out of the triad thing.

FWIW? Here is what sticks out to me. And I could be wrong in my impressions.

People bungle triads all the time going in underprepared. That's rough. But this one is so EXTRA. It sounds like it wasn't a "regular" mistake thing. But going off into harassment/stalker/verbal abuse land.

I agree it is really extra at this point, which is why finding anything the was helpful has been hard.

It sounds like both of you broke up with her at this point and are having very different experiences of it and making sense of not just the bungled triad part of it but experiencing verbal abuse and harassment.

In the verbal abuse time line? He's just NOW getting some and starting to see true colors. Where you've been dealing with it longer. She's ALSO gone stalker weirdo at him now.

You didn't feel safe before. And you don't feel safe yet. And you normally rely on spouse in hard times, but he's unfit for that job because he's in grief mode himself. And now he's feeling unsafe and prob didn't expect or knows how to handle a woman stalker. (Men in particular are sometimes reticent about naming verbal abuse abuse. Cuz "men don't cry" and "That just doesn't happen to men.")

He thinks that he can make things better. I dont know that he still fully sees what she is doing.

And you weren't out as poly so you don't really have other people to talk to about all this -- the triad part. So who do you talk to about triad gone SUPER BAD into harassment weirdness?

We were out because we did every single red flag there was available to us. However no one that knows is poly so it's just like they think of course this didn't work out, they can't relate to any of it. And especially the sexy side of things I don't really want to talk about to them. Like who wants to tell a friend that thought all along something would fail, that my husband liked having sex with her.

Is that about it? If so? I'm glad you tried to reach out here. I'm sorry this is going down like this. I'm sorry it is THIS BAD and still not over over.

Like I said to Magdlyn, I really appreciate the time and thought you put into responding.

You seem to acknowledge mistakes were made and you didn't realize it til after the fact with this triad thing.

Do you realize you are at risk NOW of dinging your relationship with spouse because you want him to be like Superman or something? And maybe making mistakes in the grief process and not realizing that til after the fact?

I am coming to that realization, which is why I came here. To get other perspectives. I am trying to be as open as possible, and know that of course it is hugely tinged by my view.

You may be used to turning to each other for comfort, but in this case? Because it is not "regular triad doom" but EXTRA?

It may be better to seek professional people OUTSIDE the triad system to lean on for grief support and getting away from harassment/abuse support. Maybe you want to look at a poly counselor if you can afford that? I don't know if this helps you.

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

Polyamory-Friendly Professionals Directory

www.polyfriendly.org

His initial response to a counselor was that he didn't need someone telling us to break up. This was a couple weeks ago when things were really really bad between him and I, I probably should approach it again.

Maybe it helps you to look at it like a list to start organizing material for counselor?

HIM

• He needs more time to move on.
• He wants time and space to "grieve alone." He does not want your help/interaction with that.
  • He prefers help from a counselor? Someone else?
• His ex has turned stalker/harasser weirdo on him.
  • Maybe he's trying to reconcile "How could someone I cared about treat me like this?"
  • He might also be dealing with "Men don't get harassed. You are making it up" worries
• His spouse (you) is pressuring him to hurry up and ditch the weirdo lady, DO something, be my knight in shining armor and defend my honor, hurry up with your grief and help me with mine, and do it like yesterday.

I don't feel like he is realizing the stress she is putting him under too.
You are right, I am pressuring him to hurry up and be over it.

 

YOU

You need your own grief support.

• You feel lost without him being his usual him.
• If he's not fit for this job, you will be getting grief support help from a counselor? Somewhere else?

I do feel lost without him, I went more into that with my reply to Magdlyn.

You are coping with mixed feelings

• You regret/are angry at yourself for trying it out in the first place and going in underprepared
• You are relieved to be out of the triad.
• You are upset the person you tried to triad treated you poorly
  • And she's getting worse and not just weirdo but scary/harasser/stalker level weirdo
• Watching his grief process over the break up AND his acceptance process for "I dated a weirdo" bothers you.
• You think he's pining away for her

You want reassurance he isn't still love blind (I'm guessing on these)

• You want him to apologize to you for blowing you off when you would raise concerns early on
• You want to hear him say she is crazy town so you can feel emotionally safe with HIM again because he used to blow you off.
• He's too stunned to be able to process ANY of it well.
  • The best he can do is break up with her, side with you, and agree she's upset and doing inappropriate things.
  • This is not satisfactory to you even though it's basically over for him and he showed her the door. But still shaking out with her and her bad leaving behaviors.
  • Because you want him to SCREAM IT that she's wackadoo and this was all a bad situation
  • Because you really want to hear that he loves you, he's sorry you had to go through all this, and yeah. That was like the worst intro to poly ever.

All of this 100%

HER

She behaves inappropriately and is harassing, verbally abusing, etc. the both of you

• You can block her on all your numbers, email, social media etc.
• If she continues to bother him, you can let it be his problem.
  • You disconnected your things. He can figure out how to disconnect and block his things.
• You can ask him not to talk about her right now to you and encourage him to talk to a poly counselor instead.
• If need be you can remind him that he can start a log of incidents and think about next steps like restraining order.

That was short version. Here's part 2. (cont)

 

[GalaGirl]

I feel a huge amount of embarrassment over all of it ontop of everything else, and the feeling of everyone know that he's not happy with me and that I feel deficient.

He gets upset with me about that and twists it that I must think hes in the wrong or "broken", i try to tell him its just the feeling i have not about him being broken.

Y'all have been traumatized. This is what I meant when I said don't turn on each other. Like relationship IMPLODING rather than exploding.

Being out as swingers is not being out as poly. It's a mistake people make sometimes -- wanting to keep things private and then have no support network if anything goes wahoonie.

He thinks that he can make things better. I dont know that he still fully sees what she is doing.

Maybe bargaining stage of grief? Thinking he can salvage something?

You may be right. He might NOT see everything yet. He just broke with her and is just barely starting to see this side of her.

Stages of grief is NOT linear. Some stages you think you were done with might pop back out. More like an up and down thing til finally DONE done. I would expect both of you to experience up and downy times.

On the abuse part?

YOU can read the articles for leaving abuse if you have the energy for that at this time. They list things at the end for family and friends for what to do/not to do. Here's stage 1.

How to help women abused and controlled by male partners: Stage 1

STAGE 1 How to help women abused and controlled by male partners STAGE 2 Feeling bemused about helping women abused by male partners STAGE 3 Confused about helping women abused by male partners? STAGE 4 Helping women who are refusing to be abused STAGE 5 Women mentally bruised by male partners...

speakoutloud.net

And you do the suggestions to your own self: No. You did NOT deserve poor treatment. You deserve to be treated well.

Your needs FIRST though. You put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to help him.

If you don't have it in you do help him with any of that? Doing the stage 1 things that family and friends can do for the person for him?

And the best you can do is set up counseling opportunities and invite him to set up his own? Do that. And YOU go to your counseling. Cuz you can't do everything for all. Put your own oxygen mask on first!

And later on when you have energy? Maybe educate yourself on what healthy poly is and is not so you can name what happened to you. Along with educating self about verbal abuse and harassment. So you can name that too.

His initial response to a counselor was that he didn't need someone telling us to break up. This was a couple weeks ago when things were really really bad between him and I, I probably should approach it again.

Glad you will reconsider poly therapist, even if just for you right now.

If your goal for therapy is how to navigate continued harassment and come out the other side together? You can say so to your therapist. It's ok to need help sometimes.

Again... take it day by day. Or hour by hour til you can go day by day.

 

[stuckinlimbo]

LONGER VERSION

All of this?



That was in the past. She behaved poorly at you while being sweet to him. I don't knwo if she was a cowgirl or a wacko or both or what.

If you need to talk about this with someone to help you process, please talk to a counselor. None of this was healthy or normal.

And you talking to a grieving person who used to be in NRE lalas? Maybe the right person. NOT the right time. So all you do is waste your breath and get yourself frustrated if you try to have that conversation with him right now. Again... none of this was healthy or normal.

You are ready to see/talk about all the things that went wrong/were handled badly. He's not ready.

Again I feel like you are right, he's always the one I talk to, the one I want to talk to. Us not being on the same page is so hard.

Look what you wrote:



He's only NOW seeing her true colors. So he's going to be very disoriented right now. Who he thought she was? Was not that. It was THIS.

Do not let your own impatience, fear, or anxiety take over so you end up rushing him or pestering him. Talk to a counselor about what you are going through. This is SO much... I strongly suggest professional help.

If I was in a laughing place I would laugh, because yes impatience, fear, anxiety all of it. And 100% I'm pestering him.

I do agree with him on the fact I don't want someone to tell me him and I shouldn't be together. I do believe we make it through this. I want him and I to make it through this more than anything, I just want him back. Processing it all is very hard though.

I think you could look up the break up stages of grief for your own self and for understanding him. Along with affects of verbal abuse.

I think with the stages of grief he bounces around too much. Before the breakup he said everything would be fine, and i am having a hard time letting go of things he said and then they changed.

I'm an outsider and I don't know any of you. To me? It sounds like you are at different stages of break up grief. Like you want him to be instantly over her. When it is a process.

It also sounds like you want him to "defend me to her" when really? Nobody actually has to JADE here.

again correct, even if it was just to me I want the feeling that he has my back like he always has before this mess.

You don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain why you wanted to drop out of this triad or what you think she's wackadoodle.

He's getting a clearer view now. With THIS new load of wacky. She's harassing him, denigrating you, verbal abuse, etc and coming in at a high emotional volume.



It's not ok. You can disconnect or block her from all your things.

Done on my part, i honestly didnt think she would text me this last time, but she was attention seeking from him and wanting to start problems between him and I.

Because his grief and break up experience of her are DIFFERENT than yours. You saw it during the triad.

He's only just NOW seeing the wackadoodle since the break up. What was that? DAYS ago?

Break up was before new years, complete crazy has been within the past 4 or 5 days.

You may have brought up issues during triad that he blew off. And feel angry about that. But guess what? It's OVER for you. You will no longer have triad issues from her.

You can afford to be patient and lower the emotional volume on your side.

Cuz he's going to go into shut down mode (and sounds like he is) if he has her coming in at high emotional volume on one side. And then you on the other.

This hits home pretty hard, I think controlling my emotions about it has just been extremely rough. I am watching him go through this, not being himself and it hurts.

You aren't being petty. You might be overwhelming him though.

I'm sure I am overwhelming him. Trying to figure out how not to do that. The reason I came here to try to get some help. Because I'm trying to give him some space but the thoughts are in my head non stop. He woke up in the middle of the night, which he has been doing because he either has a dream about her or can't quiet his head about what's going on. I stayed up for hours just circling in my head, and needed somewhere to release the thoughts.

What do you need from him then? To show he's on your side WHILE he's also a grieving/ is a harassment victim?

That is realistic and reasonable to expect from such a person?

No, you are right.

Ugh. This sounds horrible. For HOURS? Sounds like he got caught all "deer int he headlights" and didn't know how to say "Stop. This is too much. I'm hanging up now." And just block the phone.

From about 9pm till 6am. I turned his phone to silent around 1am. He stopped responding around 2:30am. He probably would have continued because up till that point we were staying up with the thought she's going to show up at our house and we would need to call the cops. But she tried to get him to go pick her up and take her to her car, once we knew she wouldn't show up because she didn't have her vehicle we went to bed.

He's trying to not respond to her and trying to detangle himself.

I don't know if you overheard the conversation because you live there too. Or he was telling you about it in gory detail when he could have summarized and spared you some of it.

Part one

 

[stuckinlimbo]

Part 2

I was there, the previous text conversation they had I told him to delete because I didn't want to know. But we were up together waiting for what happened if she showed up at our house.

But this level of whooshy harassment can knock people off balance. BOTH of you have been knocked off balance here.

You could step back and let him deal with her. And if he wants to start logging the incidents in prep for a cease and desist lawyer letter or filing for a restraining order -- how far he wants to take it is up to him.

She's harassing him. He could save screenshots, texts, etc.

Including him sending her a "Stop sending me this stuff. We are broken up." It's all evidence.

I wanted him to send her this
View attachment 4074

And you know what? He may be too in a daze or "deer in the headlights" to even think of that. So might you.

Again... I encourage you to talk to a professional counselor. Internet people might be able to help with one issue or two but this is HUGE and not healthy or normal. This needs professional help.



They JUST broke up. Desire takes time to fade.

He's in the "How can someone I care about treat me bad like this" place. A similar place where abuse victims live.

Remain silent WHILE you step back away from the splash zone for your own well being. Disconnect and block all your things from her. If you cannot TAKE AWAY from his burdens? At least do not ADD to his burdens. That might be all the support you can reasonably and rationally do for him right now when YOU yourself are unwell.

Expect him to deal with his splash zone from her himself.

And seek a counselor for yourself. Get a health check up with your family practice. Maybe request a short run of sleep meds or anxiety or whatever it is.

Set some boundaries with him about her. Respect his boundaries.

• Could tell him you would like to make a "time out" space for both.
  • You are going to honor his request to leave him alone to grieve and deal with his things with her himself. You will stop bugging him on that.
  • In return? You would like him NOT to tell you about it when she calls to bug him some more. You would like to be left alone on that. You are losing sleep, not eatin right, losing weight, depressed, crying, and it is affecting your well being.
• You will be seeking support for your grief things and verbal abuse things from a counselor. And you encourage him to think about one for himself.
• You will be going to your family practice to talk about stress, lack of sleep, and so on. You encourage him to attend to his health things also.
• You would like to be there for each other through this but at this time? It might be better to deal with grief things alone for a bit so heads can cool off some first. So you don't turn on each other.
• You would like to check in after X weeks of "time out" and determine if couple counseling might be needed and what else needs to happen if the harassment continues.

That might be fair enough for now. What do you think?

I think you have been very thoughtful and helpful. Even on the things I don't "want" to hear. And I may try the counselor route. I do need to get better, and if I can't have him be my crutches I definitely need something.

You might also consider a vacation break.

Go visit family or friends on your own. Or go hotel for a bit.


Why? And why AT THIS TIME?

If you need to hear something from him, how about you take the shortcut and just TELL HIM what you want to hear? Like...

"Spouse, I need kind words right now. Could you please be willing to say this to me and give me a hug? ​

"I'm sorry you had a break up. I'm sorry this is going so wacko. I'm sorry hard on you right now."​

You sound like you need to be seen in your context.

Nailed it again, feels like you are in my head.

FWIW? This whole thing sucks! I am sorry you went into triad underprepared and it ended like THIS. Like not "regular triad doom from underprepared" but that plus so much EXTRA with the wacko!

Breathe. Take things one day at a time. Hour by hour if needed.

• It's ok to decide you don't want poly.
• It's ok for your experience of this sucky thing to be different than his experience of this sucky thing.
  • Even if the view is from different balconies? It still sucked. You both broke up with her for reasons.
  • And now in the aftermath? She's not going quiet and it STILL goes on sucking.

So how about both agreeing this is a rough situation on both of you? And not nitpicking it to death?

Trying. I had thought about sending him the link to this thread, but im leaning towards that being something to maybe do later on when everything has healed. And me trying to not nitpick him with it.

So you both can figure out what you each need to do to FINISH getting out of the woods?

Which may include giving each other a time out space? And setting up some counseling?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart again for all the time you spent on this, it really is helpful.

 

[GalaGirl]

We were both writing at the same time.

Glad it helped you some.

You know what? If sharing a bed right now makes getting actual sleep hard because one or the other is tossing and turning from the stress? Is there space in the house for you to take turns sleeping on the couch or something? It doesn't solve ALL your problems. But people function better WITH sleep than without.

So solve the small things that CAN be solved for now. Or at least improved.

I think you have been very thoughtful and helpful. Even on the things I don't "want" to hear. And I may try the counselor route. I do need to get better, and if I can't have him be my crutches I definitely need something.

Yes, you need something. And til you set up counselor? Maybe having this thread just for you is the "for now" something? And/or start a blog thread to get the thoughts out if more comes and you don't want feedback?

https://polyamory.com/forums/life-stories-and-blogs.5/

I get it is hard right now. This is just SO MUCH.

Take a time out. Do your own health care things. Getting in with a counselor can take a bit, so be patient and hang in there.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello stuckinlimbo,

Poly can be a horrible thing, especially a poly triad. No wonder you had such a bad experience with it. It sounds like your husband and girlfriend put their own likes, needs, and opinions, above yours. Then your husband gaslighted you by claiming, "This is more for you than me." You were in Poly Hell. You gave it a fair shake. It was not for you.

Let your husband grieve ... even though he treated you horribly, and hasn't earned the right to grieve. You have earned the right. You have lost what you once had with your husband. You need time to grieve. And he is still trying to help her! He is not on your side; she has him wrapped around her finger. She is psychotic. And he is gaslighting you again, telling you it's all your fault for putting yourself in this position.

I'm very sorry you're going through this.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.