Poly or low swlf esteem

V

Violet77

Member
Hello,
I feel like the person I am dating stays in contact with his exes and wants to "be friends" with women that he finds attractive because he has low self esteem and needs their validation/attention. He thinks it's because he is naturally poly (he heard my take on poly and also follows a ho tep on Instagram who says men are naturally polygenous but women are monogamous). I started seeing him again (on and off) because I don't feel like meeting someone new and I'm attracted to him, we live each other but I have needs he can't meet (massages and the amount of attention and affection I need). When I hear about him meeting with them and hanging out with them I feel jelous. I think if I just don't ask him/ he doesn't tell me I could just enjoy our moments and he can do what he wants and I can date someone else at some point for other needs. Any way, I wonder how you can tell difference between just attention seeking out of low self esteem and healthy poly.
 
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Maybe he thinks your polyamroy and the amount of attention and affection you need is a result of your low self esteem...

It's not nice to judge people and everyone gets to be poly for their own reasons.
 
I'm sorry you struggle.

Is this the same person that you were dating from before? And you got back together with him even though it wasn't working out before?

Or a totally different person?

I feel like the person I am dating stays in contact with his exes and wants to "be friends" with women that he finds attractive because he has low self esteem and needs their validation/attention. He thinks it's because he is naturally poly
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I think this is his stuff. And you could let him deal with his stuff.

His reasons for wanting poly or wanting to be in touch with his exes or have women friends -- that's his reasons and his stuff to manage.

I started seeing him again (on and off) because I don't feel like meeting someone new and I'm attracted to him, we live each other but I have needs he can't meet
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That part is your stuff. If you took him back mostly because you don't feel like putting in the energy to meet and date new people and you find him attractive? Well, it is what it is.

You get to decide if that's good enough for now and if you are willing to overlook the stuff you find annoying.

But if you thought you could overlook it but now find you can't? Or it's cranking up your jealousy stuff again from before? Could break up and let it go.

Could not do "on again off again" stuff with this guy. Could just be plain off and be permanently done. Then put your energies elsewhere.

Any way, I wonder how you can tell difference between just attention seeking out of low self esteem and healthy poly.
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Are you talking about him? Or you? I honestly cannot tell.

If it's about him? And you don't like this about him? You think he's collecting people about him just to prop himself up somehow with their attention and validation? Stop dating him.

If it is about you? You don't feel like doing the work to meet someone new so took a "meh" ex back because it was easier? And you don't like that you made this choice? Or it bugs you because his stuff is like holding up a mirror because you do similar? Could figure out what you want to do instead. Make different choices.

Were you able to get counseling like you mentioned in the other thread?

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Yes, I did used to always need men's attention and validation to feel ok. Yes, I am getting counseling and doing better, thank you for asking!
I know the main point of this space is to work on ourselves but. I just see this as a cycle in alot of people, trying to claim they are just a certain kind of person when they actually don't know who they are. Like actually being an avoidant attached person who is serial monogamous but learning a little about poly and claiming that's who you are. Same stuff I struggled with and finally recovering from. I just wanted to see some takes from ppl on here around that.
It's fine if he thinks my need for attention and affection are from low self esteem, they probably are but also some people enjoy more affection then others and I'm working on that separately. Ig this is not the forum for this that's cool too. Thanks!
 
I'm trying to decide if I make different decisions or stay and have another partner. Also when I leave him alone about the other women we get along great so perhaps I can go that route
 
Since I jave been loving myself more I fond it easier to stay in the moment and not feel upset/think about what he is doing
 
I guess I could let him deal with his stuff but I'm the only one who tells him the truth and doesn't enable him. He's traumatized, his counselor doesn't even know because he keeps everything surface level with everyone
 
I guess I could let him deal with his stuff but I'm the only one who tells him the truth and doesn't enable him. He's traumatized, his counselor doesn't even know because he keeps everything surface level with everyone
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So.... do you want to be his dating partner? Or do you want to be his helper friend for processing his issues? And to what extent? Because you cannot be like his free therapist.

If you are looking for a simple "sweet and light" kind of romance?

You can't be his helper. And if you are going to be his helper friend? Then you have to let go of dating him because it's not "sweet and light."

I think you could get more clear of purpose here. Like what do YOU want out of this relationship? A light, casual thing? Or something else?

If you want something casual, it it possible to tell him the truth and not enable him by saying "I want a casual relationship. I cannot be like your helper friend processing issues. You have to do that with your counselor, not me."

Galagirl
 
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By helping me focus in on what I actually want your helping me feel more empowered to put up a boundary, at least getting closer to it. In response, he doesn't ask me to be the helper friend, I just see these issues on my own and find it hard not to try to help him. It helps me to not feel so angry about the things he does, even dumb little things, when I see the issues he has with himself. But focusing on it alot probably does take the lightheartedness out of things. My preference would be for us to be primary partners, at least at some point if we trust each other more
 
I started seeing him again (on and off) because I don't feel like meeting someone new and I'm attracted to him, we live each other but I have needs he can't meet (massages and the amount of attention and affection I need).
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I guess I interpreted this as you wanting this ex back in your life as more of a temp placeholder person until such time that you have more energy to pursue new people. Like familiar enough to be a FWB person for now, but no. You already know from before that he's never gonna be a primary partner person.

Because there's a lot of stuff that bugs you about him that you might be will to overlook in a casual thing, but you don't want to deal with in a more involved thing. And it sounds like there's a trust thing too.

In response, he doesn't ask me to be the helper friend, I just see these issues on my own and find it hard not to try to help him. It helps me to not feel so angry about the things he does, even dumb little things, when I see the issues he has with himself.
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If he does things you think are dumb, you feel angry, jealous... what are you getting out of going back to this connection? Would you be better off spending less time trying to "fix" him and just letting it be over? Spend more time seeking new people to date that may be more compatible?

Maybe set him aside for a moment. Think about what qualities you actually want in a poly partner or partners. (Do you even want to do poly? Or want monogamy? Something else?)

Then assess. Does he actually make the cut for what you want at this time? Or not?

Galagirl
 
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Violet77 said:
Yes, I did used to always need men's attention and validation to feel ok. Yes, I am getting counseling and doing better, thank you for asking!
I know the main point of this space is to work on ourselves but. I just see this as a cycle in alot of people, trying to claim they are just a certain kind of person when they actually don't know who they are. Like actually being an avoidant attached person who is serial monogamous but learning a little about poly and claiming that's who you are. Same stuff I struggled with and finally recovering from. I just wanted to see some takes from ppl on here around that.
It's fine if he thinks my need for attention and affection are from low self esteem, they probably are but also some people enjoy more affection then others and I'm working on that separately. Ig this is not the forum for this that's cool too. Thanks!
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When I say that I am poly, I do not see it as defining a part of who I am necessarily. Poly for me is a structure useful in my personal desires and pursuit of happiness. In a theoretical society where I have no freedom to pursue polyamory; with enough indoctrination, fear, and shame, I'm sure I could be convinced to be "happy" with whatever enforced relationship structure.

As someone raised in a conservative Christian home I have gone through my own journey of passing judgment on others; thinking I know what's best, or that I come from some sort of moral high ground. That type of thinking served my life very poorly. And it was accompanied by a lack of self-awareness that in hindsight is laughable.

So maybe people go through various stages in life. Maybe some people choose polyamory to create an ethical means of feeding desires that others view as "unhealthy" (which in of itself is subjective). And maybe someday they grow out of it and decide to pursue a different relationship structure. We all reserve the right to change our minds at any time for any reason.

If I had not pursued relationships with any woman whom I thought had sex for some sort of validation I would have missed out on a lot of really fun and rewarding relationships. And judging people for it would only put up walls between otherwise genuine connections. It is not my place to judge, or to say my poly is more genuine or morally superior to someone else. Even if someone is pursuing poly as a way to ethically play out behaviors that would otherwise be considered "unhealthy" I commend them for choosing ethics over the alternatives and I find that courage to be an attractive trait in general.
 
Hi Violet,

You said he's traumatized, his counselor doesn't even know because he keeps everything surface level with everyone. I think this is a big deal. If one keeps everything surface level with one's counselor, what's the point of seeing that counselor? Past (and certainly present) trauma is exactly the kind of thing a counselor should know about, otherwise how can the counselor help him? What does this particular counselor do for him that makes the visits with the counselor worthwhile? Is it just so he can say, "There, I saw the counselor, now quit bugging me about it."

I can't tell whether he seeks other women because he's naturally poly or because he has low self-esteem (or both!). I think I would need more information. What does he do that convinces you he is seeking other women only because he has low self-esteem? and what arguments does he use to prove to you that he is naturally poly?

Regards,
Kevin T.
 
Inaniel said:
When I say that I am poly, I do not see it as defining a part of who I am necessarily. Poly for me is a structure useful in my personal desires and pursuit of happiness. In a theoretical society where I have no freedom to pursue polyamory; with enough indoctrination, fear, and shame, I'm sure I could be convinced to be "happy" with whatever enforced relationship structure.

As someone raised in a conservative Christian home I have gone through my own journey of passing judgment on others; thinking I know what's best, or that I come from some sort of moral high ground. That type of thinking served my life very poorly. And it was accompanied by a lack of self-awareness that in hindsight is laughable.

So maybe people go through various stages in life. Maybe some people choose polyamory to create an ethical means of feeding desires that others view as "unhealthy" (which in of itself is subjective). And maybe someday they grow out of it and decide to pursue a different relationship structure. We all reserve the right to change our minds at any time for any reason.

If I had not pursued relationships with any woman whom I thought had sex for some sort of validation I would have missed out on a lot of really fun and rewarding relationships. And judging people for it would only put up walls between otherwise genuine connections. It is not my place to judge, or to say my poly is more genuine or morally superior to someone else. Even if someone is pursuing poly as a way to ethically play out behaviors that would otherwise be considered "unhealthy" I commend them for choosing ethics over the alternatives and I find that courage to be an attractive trait in general.
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I see what your saying, I do struggle with judging and am working on doing better because it's more useful to look at what someone's needs and emotions are then judge them as a certain type of person. Yes, I helped him to be ethical about instead of just doing it and lying about it so that is good. I guess I'm not looking to judge but wish he realized the things he does, its not only this, are because he does not love himself and if he could love himself happiness could come from within instead of relying on others for it. This is a struggle I am finally getting out of myself.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi Violet,

You said he's traumatized, his counselor doesn't even know because he keeps everything surface level with everyone. I think this is a big deal. If one keeps everything surface level with one's counselor, what's the point of seeing that counselor? Past (and certainly present) trauma is exactly the kind of thing a counselor should know about, otherwise how can the counselor help him? What does this particular counselor do for him that makes the visits with the counselor worthwhile? Is it just so he can say, "There, I saw the counselor, now quit bugging me about it."

I can't tell whether he seeks other women because he's naturally poly or because he has low self-esteem (or both!). I think I would need more information. What does he do that convinces you he is seeking other women only because he has low self-esteem? and what arguments does he use to prove to you that he is naturally poly?

Regards,
Kevin T.
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He kind of uses the counselor for chatting, telling her surface things about his every day life, he is required to do counseling because of being on probation. I think he just wants to tell her like surface level things about why he is feeling depressed or struggling.
Whaf he does that makes me think he's seeking women out of low self esteem:
He allows women that he is attracted to to treat him with disrespect (and me) because he wants to be around them/hopes for sex/flirting.
He struggles to let go of his exes and wants to help them with their emotional issues/fix them.
When we were together he liked to put me down/complain about me (avoidant attachment) to get their attention/make them feel validated.
He goes along with what the most recent person he has spoken to says ( me or whoever).
I feel he doesn't have a sense of self/awareness or what it's like to have boundaries around relationships.
He thinks he is fat.
His meds make him tired and hard for him to keep an excersize routine and healthy diet.
He gives alot but won't really accept things.
He's kind of awkward and blurts things out that are uncomfortable.
The main thing is I beleive he feels a lack of control in his life and one way he can get control is to have something extra on the side that he can keep secret from his partner therefore controlling women.
Argument he used to say he is naturally poly:
A guy on Instagram said men are naturally poly but not women.
He listened to me and looked around online and he feels he likes to have a main partner but also have emotional relationships on the side that he could be free to have sex with if it comes up.
He has no insight in to why though.
His mom was abusive and let him know men are trash and condemned him for having a penis.
When you asked for clarification i felt cared for, thank you
 
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GalaGirl said:
I guess I interpreted this as you wanting this ex back in your life as more of a temp placeholder person until such time that you have more energy to pursue new people. Like familiar enough to be a FWB person for now, but no. You already know from before that he's never gonna be a primary partner person.

Because there's a lot of stuff that bugs you about him that you might be will to overlook in a casual thing, but you don't want to deal with in a more involved thing. And it sounds like there's a trust thing too.



If he does things you think are dumb, you feel angry, jealous... what are you getting out of going back to this connection? Would you be better off spending less time trying to "fix" him and just letting it be over? Spend more time seeking new people to date that may be more compatible?

Maybe set him aside for a moment. Think about what qualities you actually want in a poly partner or partners. (Do you even want to do poly? Or want monogamy? Something else?)

Then assess. Does he actually make the cut for what you want at this time? Or not?

Galagirl
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My preference would be mono first then poly after we are settled.
Qualities I want:
Smart
Integrity
Loyal
Honest
Fun
Affectionate
Funny
Weird
Loving
Reassuring
Good at communicating
He doesn't make the cut for everything I want so I was thinking multiple partners could help with that.
 
Thank you for more info.

I didn't see if you answered -- is this still Marcus from before? Or a different dude? If Marcus... when he broke up with you in May, did you date other people? How long was it before you got back together again? Are you comfortable being on your own?

I could be wrong. But some of the things you list about him also seem to apply to you. Like...
  • He struggles to let go of his exes and wants to help them with their emotional issues/fix them
And it kinda sounds like you are coming to poly like each poly partner would be a puzzle piece? Like this one is not honest, but this one is? This one is not fun, but this one is? This one is not affectionate but this one is?

Rather than expecting ALL of them to be at a certain basic level of honest, fun, affectionate, etc?

I don't think one has extra poly poly partners to make up for the flaws in the first one, or to be like a "patch" or bandaid." Each person is a whole person, a whole partner. And it either works out with that partner or it doesn't.

Galagirl
 
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Hi Violet,

It sounds like there's a lot more points in favor of him having low self-esteem, than there are points in favor of him being naturally poly. And the thing about what the Instagram guy said is a terrible point. People are not divided into poly and mono camps based on their gender.

It makes more sense now, what's going on with him in counseling. He has to be there; he didn't choose to be there. So no wonder he is not committed to actually getting help from the counselor.

My vote is that he has low self-esteem.
Regards,
Kevin T.
 
GalaGirl said:
Thank you for more info.

I didn't see if you answered -- is this still Marcus from before? Or a different dude? If Marcus... when he broke up with you in May, did you date other people? How long was it before you got back together again? Are you comfortable being on your own?

I could be wrong. But some of the things you list about him also seem to apply to you. Like...
  • He struggles to let go of his exes and wants to help them with their emotional issues/fix them
And it kinda sounds like you are coming to poly like each poly partner would be a puzzle piece? Like this one is not honest, but this one is? This one is not fun, but this one is? This one is not affectionate but this one is?

Rather than expecting ALL of them to be at a certain basic level of honest, fun, affectionate, etc?

I don't think one has extra poly poly partners to make up for the flaws in the first one, or to be like a "patch" or bandaid." Each person is a whole person, a whole partner. And it either works out with that partner or it doesn't.

Galagirl
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Yes, it's Marcus, I dated a little but didn't find anyone I liked, im conformable being on my own, mostly, sometimes I still struggle but less then I used to. We got back together in September, so 4 months. Yea, I dint think he is a whole partner for me. Thank you for listening
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi Violet,

It sounds like there's a lot more points in favor of him having low self-esteem, than there are points in favor of him being naturally poly. And the thing about what the Instagram guy said is a terrible point. People are not divided into poly and mono camps based on their gender.

It makes more sense now, what's going on with him in counseling. He has to be there; he didn't choose to be there. So no wonder he is not committed to actually getting help from the counselor.

My vote is that he has low self-esteem.
Regards,
Kevin T.
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Thank you! That's what I think
 
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