Poly woes - balance between partners needs and my own

Sigyn_

Sigyn_

New member
Bit of background about my relationships: Married to "anchor" partner Kevin for 10+ years. Poly/open for 5 years. We are naturally primary (nesting, co-parents, shared finances, etc.). I have a second long term partner, Pete. We've been dating for 20 months. Kevin is currently casually dating, but has never had another long term Poly partner. Pete has a primary (wife/coparent/nesting) partner and both are casually dating other partners.

These sorts of situations are difficult to describe without all the context or without being too one-sided, but I'll try my best. In this situation I'm seeking advice, shared experiences, validation (or not!) as I'm struggling to find my balance.

Situation: Kevin and I have on and off been struggling to find time together. I work a lot and we are parents and in general it can be difficult to find time together.

Physically, we are exhausted a lot, so generally when we do fall into bed at the end of a night it's cuddles, reading and lights out. When Kevin expressed that he wasn't feeling like he was getting enough "physical" attention, I stepped it up. He insisted it wasn't sex, but then repeatedly got upset if all we did was do some "petting and cuddles" and didn't have sex. In reality, we might get one to two times a month where we are both in sync and able to be more physically intimate.

Meanwhile I spend once a month overnight with Pete (usually planned well in advance) and occasionally we get an evening together, as well.

With Kevin wanting more time away together (outside the home), we've had a few date nights, and recently had a night away together. All things that I organised: arranging childcare, travel arrangements etc. (I'm also the sole earner at the moment). He is also well aware that we have 2 nights planned away just the two of us at the end of the month, and another night away in Sept for his birthday. (Again all things I arrange and plan). He has suggested a movie night next week, and I've said that sounds good, but am relying on him to organise it. So we've had time and planned time together.

Meanwhile, I've not seen Pete for over a month. We have plans to have an evening in a couple of days together. And then spontaneously, on a work trip, he offered to come drive 2 hours to stay with me so we can have some time together (where we aren't changing plans/I wasn't able to spend it with Kevin anyway, as he has childcare/and the hotel is on company money!).

I mentioned this to Kevin before I left, and he immediately became upset and asked if I was then still going to see Pete again this week for our previously planned evening out. When I said Yes, he told me to "Just do what you want" but was clearly upset. He said it was too last minute and I can't spring these things on him last minute, as he needs time to "process".

I don't want to upset him, but I feel it's unfair for him to be upset with me when I want to spend time with Pete, especially after I've made a real effort to give more of my time to Kevin, so he and I have more time together, as I do feel we both need that. (And previously months ago he said he didn't feel like I "prioritised him and his feelings enough.")

So in this scenario, I've decided to see Pete on my work trip and again at our evening out in a few days, as we have had that planned for over a month.

So, am I being unreasonable? Am I letting Kevin's emotions weigh on me too much? Or, should I respect his feelings and continue to restrict my time with Pete until Kevin feels better?

There's a lot more missing here and I know it's very hard to know all the context and personalities at play here.
 
Restricting your time with Pete is not respecting Kevin's feelings, it's pandering to them.

Is Kevin having some self esteem issues right now because of not working? And how much time is he getting outside the house with other people?
 
Evie said:
Restricting your time with P is not respecting K's feelings, it's pandering to them.

Is K having some self esteem issues right now because of not working? And how much time is he getting outside the house with other people?
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He's finishing a PhD (5 years in). He goes our regularly with friends and occasionally has dates (but went quite a long time without dating so he could focus on his PhD). I wouldn't say he has self-esteem issues (we go to sex parties together occasionally and he is very charming), but he is ND and sometimes can struggle socially.
 
Hello Sigyn_,

I don't think it would be fair to cancel your plans with Pete just because Kevin doesn't like it. Instead, you could plan something extra with Kevin, but really you have already done that. I can appreciate that Kevin hasn't had time to process, but really I'm not sure if that's what the problem is. I'm getting some jealousy vibes from Kevin.

That's my initial take,
Kevin T.
 
Thanks Kevin. I have confronted him in the past about whether it's jealousy per se. He says it is more the feeling that I'm not meeting his needs in the relationship and then go out with Pete. (We are naturally primaries - mostly because of marriage, children, cohabiting - so I think he does always feel like he comes first). But I feel like I'm doing what I can with the limits of our time in general. In general I'm finding it difficult to know "how much he needs" before I've "satisfied" his desire for my time.

When I've confronted him about these general feelings in the past and said that I feel like he is being unfair and I'm struggling to know what exactly he wants (not to mention the pressure I feel to spend more time with him, when I want to naturally, can actually put me off), he says I'm invalidating his emotions and he can't help if he feels that way.

So, with those of you are quite experienced, how do you approach this conversation with your partners without them feeling being undermined for how that feel?

He is dating again more and I was hoping when he started to want to spend more time with someone else he might put less pressure on me, but he has struggled to find anyone who he desires a relationship with longer term.
 
I've been in this situation a few times on both sides.

There's been times I felt like Kevin, and although I couldn't quite articulate my needs, having more scheduled time did end up alleviating my feelings. It was just a case of we needed more quality time together.

There's been other times where the issue was that I wanted my partner to want more time with me. Yes, even if it meant less or no time with someone else. I suppose I was seeking something where we prioritise each other in the same way. In this situation, more scheduled time together didn't fix the problem.

In the latter situation, I'd also argue it wasn't jealousy. It really wasn't about other people, especially personally. It was about wanting them to want the same things as me in the relationship. When they did not want the same things as me, our quality time wasn't quality because they felt pressured to be somewhere they didn't really want to be.

Basically, we had grown apart or never really been together in the first place.
 
In him organizing time together. This might just be a trait of his. Many people default to an attendee rather than organizer position in the relationship. However, it could be because he isn't earning much/any money at the moment, so feels impertinent booking potentialy expensive dates for you both.
 
Sigyn_ said:
He's finishing a PhD (5 years in). He goes our regularly with friends and occasionally has dates (but went quite a long time without dating so he could focus on his PhD). I wouldn't say he has self-esteem issues (we go to sex parties together occasionally and he is very charming), but he is ND and sometimes can struggle socially.
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whats ND ??
 
SEASONEDpolyAgain said:
I've been in this situation a few times on both sides.

There's been times I felt like K and although I couldn't quite articulate my needs, having more scheduled time did end up alleviating my feelings. It was just a case of we needed more quality time together.

There's been other times where the issue was that I wanted my partner to want more time with me. Yes, even if it meant less or no time with someone else. I suppose I was seeking something where we prioritise each other in the same way. In this situation, more scheduled time together didn't fix the problem.

In the latter situation, I'd also argue it wasn't jealousy. It really wasn't about other people, especially personally. It was about wanting them to want the same things as me in the relationship. When they did not want the same things as me, our quality time wasn't quality because they felt pressured to be somewhere they didn't really want to be.

Basically, we had grown apart or never really been together in the first place.
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Thanks for your thoughts. I'm hoping Kevin and I will fit in the former scenario and he will start to feel better. It's just, how long that will take?

In the latter scenario, Kevin has said something similar about wanting me to want to spend time with him. And I do, but maybe it's not to the extent he wants, which is where we are now, with me feeling pressured. I have already made a point of ensuring we have more time together. I already feel like I compromise on my time with Pete in favour of Kevin. And 10 months ago I stopped seeking other partners, mainly because I knew I couldn't dedicate any more quality time to others between Pete and Kevin, my friends, my family and my work.

Maybe it is down to the "quality" of the time we are spending together. So I will explore that with Kevin.

Neither of us feels like we have grown "apart." We have both evolved and changed in the last 13 years, since we first started dating. Sometimes I think Kevin wants to get back to the nostalgia of those early years.
 
It would help a lot if you would choose nicknames for P and K. Initials can be confusing to read. Tell me what nicknames you'd like and (as a mod) I can go back and insert them into your posts.

How many children do you have? How old are they? Trying to practice polyamory when you have young children (elementary school age or younger, needing babysitters) can be quite tricky.

You both sound like your energy is spread very thin. You are both working hard, you on your career and Kevin on his PhD. Then you are both trying to maintain a proper loving relationship with another partner. And it sounds like only recently have you (singular or plural) given up trying to date other partners as well!

Add to that, Kevin is neuro-diverse. I don't pretend to be an expert on that, but I do know that a common characteristic is trouble with transitions or change. I have heard they like and need a structured routine. So the sudden offer from Pete to spend extra time has triggered Kevin.

I am not going to tell you both to let go of your other partners until the kids are a bit older and until Kevin gets his PhD and finds a stable career. But it could help make your lives less stressful.
 
Hi Sigyn_,

I feel like Kevin's assertion that you are (supposedly) invalidating his feelings, is an excuse he is using to avoid working with you to solve the problem. He wants you to do all the work. He isn't being specific about what he wants. How much time does he want you to spend with him? Or is it always just not going to be enough? Or is it like SEASONEDpolyAgain says, like you don't want it enough, or he thinks he can tell you don't want it enough?

Maybe it's Kevin who's invalidating your feelings.
Kevin T.
 
What were your reasons for opening your marriage 5 years in? What were the expectations at the time? Has any of that changed over time?

Tell me if I got this wrong. Kevin wants more time outside the home with you and suggests a movie date the following week. You tell him to set it up and arrange it. Sometime after that, and before movie date is all nailed down, Pete offers to drive 2 hrs to meet up. Or is this all happening the day of? Kevom thinks he’s going to a movie date with his wife that he planned (if that’s even applicable), arranges a sitter, and then at 4:30 gets a call saying "Sorry, pal. Change of plans. I can’t make it because Pete has decided to swoop into town"?

Time to process. So he thinks he wants and needs more quality time with you, and you tell him to take some initiative/action to make it happen. And then when he does, in his mind, he gets blown off.

Does the ND play into all of this?

Does he get his feeling hurt easily?
 
Magdlyn said:
It would help a lot if you would choose nicknames for P and K. Initials can be confusing to read. Tell me what nicknames you'd like and (as a mod) I can go back and insert them into your posts.

How many children do you have? How old are they? Trying to practice polyamory when you have young children (elementary school age or younger, needing babysitters) can be quite tricky.

You both sound like your energy is spread very thin. You are both working hard, you on your career and K on his PhD. Then you are both trying to maintain a proper loving relationship with another partner. And it sounds like only recently have you (singular or plural) given up trying to date other partners as well!

Add to that, K is neuro-diverse. I don't pretend to be an expert on that, but I do know that a common characteristic is trouble with transitions or change. I have heard they like and need a structured routine. So the sudden offer from P to spend extra time has triggered K.

I am not going to tell you both to let go of your other partners until the kids are a bit older and until K gets his PhD and finds a stable career. But it could help make your lives less stressful.
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Let's call them Kevin and Pete. :)

We have one child who is 4. I do know practicing poly with young children is hard work, but we've made the choice and both don't want to stop being poly and wait 10 years until she is older. Many of our practicing poly friends are also parents with young children. The main issue we all have is getting child care when we are both out. However, it's usually not a problem when we plan in advance.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi Sigyn_,

I feel like K's assertion that you are (supposedly) invalidating his feelings, is an excuse he is using to avoid working with you to solve the problem. He wants you to do all the work. He isn't being specific about what he wants. How much time does he want you to spend with him? or is it always just not going to be enough? or is it like SEASONEDpolyAgain says, like you don't want it enough, or he thinks he can tell you don't want it enough?

Maybe it's K who's invalidating your feelings.
Kevin T.
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I think this is what I've struggled with. I've said how much time is enough? He said he can't put a figure on it, which does make it hard, especially when I do want to be with him but it's definitely not something I want every spare minute I have or at the expense of not spending time with my other partner or my friends. 😞
 
dingedheart said:
What was your reason or reasons for opening your marriage 5 yrs in? What were the expectations at the time? Has any of that changed over time ?
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Lots of reasons. It wasn't a sudden decision but years of talking about it and just not knowing how to go about it. I'm pansexual, so I also wanted to experience relationships with others. Neither of us believed monogamy was right for us forever. We dipped our toes in the swinging scene first and then realised what we really wanted was meaningful relationships/connections over casual sex. This was 100% mutually agreed. We didn't have any expectations, other than just checking in and being honest with eachother.
dingedheart said:
Tell me if I got this wrong. K wants more time outside the home with you and suggests a movie date the following week. You tell him to set it up and arrange it. Sometime after that, and before movie date is all nailed down, P offers to drive 2 hrs to meet up. Or is this all happening the day of? K thinks he’s going to a movie date with his wife that he planned (if that’s even applicable), arranges a sitter, and then at 4:30 gets a call saying "Sorry, pal. Change of plans. I can’t make it because P has decided to swoop into town"?
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Sorry, way wrong! Movie night opportunity had come and gone and no further plans were mentioned. On this particular night that I mentioned, I was already planning on being away overnight for work, when I mentioned to Kevin that Pete wanted to drive the 2 hours to meet me (in the city I was travelling to for work) that night.

So Kevin was always going to have to stay home for childcare while I was away (in another city) for work that night.
 
UPDATE:
As mentioned, I had plans with Pete already booked in last night (which had been in the calendar for months). Kevin was fine with me keeping these plans. It wasn't an overnight, and though Kevin had asked if I wanted to stay with Pete overnight, I had said "no", because I had plans to do things today with our child and wanted to be home in the morning. I then made a point to tell Kevin, that I didn't think I would be out too late (11pm/12am), but that I also I wanted to have the freedom to stay out late.
Well, as one does, I lost track of time out drinking and dancing with Pete and arrived home around 1:30am. Kevin was so distraught and angry! He said he was more worried, but then proceeded to question why I was home "2 hours past when [I'd] said" and had repeatedly called and texted me after 11:30 to ask when I would be home (I hadn't heard or seen my phone as I was in a loud bar, and when I did I had texted to say I was waiting for a taxi).

I got very angry at feeling like he was trying to control me and treating me like a child. I'm a 36 year old woman who was out with a trusted man in our own city (which is VERY safe). He then said he had a "right to feel worried about me" and again accused me of not considering his anxiety and feelings and why I didn't just tell him I would be home late. So here we are again...

It kinds of ruined my nice evening out with Pete, and Kevin and I are meant to go out tomorrow evening for a concert together, and now this us where because of his behaviour towards me the last week, I don't really know how we will be able to have a nice quality time together.
 
It's starting to sound like Kevin isn't actually on board with you dating Pete. After 5 years of being open and with you in a 20 month relationship, why is he "needing time to process" when you have dates with Pete?

I do understand worrying when a nesting partner isn't home when they say they're going to be - but releasing those emotions as anger at you obviously isn't a productive/healthy way to deal with that.

He's making it difficult. Repeatedly. That's a huge flag there that there's some more deep seated stuff going on. Perhaps you guys could use some couple's therapy to get to the bottom of it.
 
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Sigyn_ said:
Lots of reasons. It wasn't a sudden decision but years of talking about it and just not knowing how to go about it. I'm pansexual, so I also wanted to experience relationships with others. Neither of us believed monogamy was right for us forever. We dipped our toes in the swinging scene first and then realised what we really wanted was meaningful relationships/connections over casual sex. This was 100% mutually agreed. We didn't have any expectations, other than just checking in and being honest with eachother.
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In the time leading up to this, have your relationships been as meaningful? Has something changed in terms of the connection or bond you have now with Pete? No expectations then, but now as things have changed, or continue to change, maybe Kevin's expectations are not changing with things?

Sigyn_ said:
Sorry, way wrong! Movie night opportunity had come and gone and no further plans were mentioned. On this particular night that I mentioned, I was already planning on being away overnight for work, when I mentioned to Kevin that Pete wanted to drive the 2 hours to meet me (in the city I was travelling to for work) that night.
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Admittedly, I read that way too fast and was looking for some affront so as to justify Kevin’s response. Now I’m with you, and like everyone else, I don’t get it. It’s a detail in absolute nothingness in the grand scheme of things. It had zero effect on him, or his day or time, or the balance of time.

To me it looks like a guy feeling he’s losing control of his marriage/romantic partnership and by making these demands/requests/having tantrums, he’s feels more in control. Or when you bend to him, he feels he’s won the point.

I think if I were you I’d side on over-estimating everything. If he’s OK with that sleepover, but you think you’ll come back early, leave it at the sleepover. That way the worst-case scenario is covered. Always over-estimate and then come in under.
 
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