Polyamorous break ups?

[Lon8462]

Sooooooooooooo
Fights in a Polyam Relationship?

So kinda just looking for advice but I am? In a Polyam V relationship which for a long while was kept secret from family and friends.

Sadly I might be going through a bit of a separation with my 2+ year partner(K) and her metamor (D)

K is a Sexual Assault survivor and I mention that only to give context a little to her person and the hurt she is going through. Furthermore, what triggered all this was when we all together were planning to try something new in the bedroom at K’s suggestion. And so D with the most experience among us was kind of leading things and I was holding K’s hand. Well eventually, K went from being excited to nervous to not liking it at all. K and I were both high as well which did not help things either. Either way, as I was the one that knew most about K’s sexual trauma and how easily it could be triggered, and I was the only male present, at the time of this writing I feel like I am the one being blamed for the majority of what happened that night.

Nevertheless, I’ve been asked by K to give her space and while I did by choice, it’s been a week now with no end in sight for when I can come back to the apartment we all live in together.

In the process of our separation, I’ve come clean about my lifestyle to my family and while their not approving, they say that the real thing they do not like is that I am being left out by her and disrespected because she is not treating D like she is treating me. What especially triggered my family is when she posted a picture of them both kissing for pride month.

Personally, I feel like I don’t really care about the post especially as I know K has been wanting to post stuff about her Polyam lifestyle for awhile and because she told me it was something she wanted to do before I left.

However, I am struggling on my feelings regarding the difference in treatment between D and I. And I suppose I wanted to ask other non monogamies people what they think in regards to this and what their opinions are in the event of one person separating from a Polyam triad and what should ethically be expected in that event. If that makes sense?

Anyways any new perspectives would be greatly appreciated

 

[vinsanity0]

Hmmmm...my first thought is that if someone needed space it would not involve me moving out of my house. If she needs space, it is up to her to find that space.

But that is me. I have no idea about your dynamic or what actually happened. Hopefully she is in therapy for this? That is a pretty strong reaction.

I'm not a prude about drugs, but I'm going to sound like one for a second. It's never a good idea to be drunk or high when trying out something new, especially if it's kinky. It might seem like a good idea to loosen inhibitions, but leads to impared judgement and missed nuances.

So what are you going to do? It's definitely not right to leave you in limbo like this. It's also not a good idea to be too aggressive either.

 

[Lon8462]

Well so far the plan is to go back up this Saturday weather or not she is ready for me to be there, and just I suppose live my life up there as best I can until I can find a new place to live near school.

What I want I guess in my heart of hearts is to be able to still have a healthy relationship with the both of them, friendship and MAYBE something intimate after a year of us both healing. I didn’t mention it in the post above, but ever since last year when she tried committing suicide I had started ignoring my needs in favor of hers. I lost myself in the relationship. I want space to find myself a little and move on from placing so much importance on our relationship. I of course don’t know what she wants, so for all I know as soon as I get back neither of them will want anything to do with me.

But I don’t think I can live my life or move on living with my family like I am now.

She was in therapy but recently graduated when her therapist changed clinics so right now I have no idea if she’s seeing anyone.

I think what is making this such a strong reaction for her is the trauma of her childhood with sexual assault and the fact that I know about it. She feels like I more than anyone should have stopped things and I didn’t. But that’s just what I think, for all I know maybe there’s something else that’s hurting her more.

Either way, I guess what’s making it so hard for me to just focus on myself And move on is the fact that neither of them are talking to me now. Their living it feels like as if I don’t exist and that sucks.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you hurt. Let me repeat back what I understand in my own words so I know I get it how it you mean. You correct me if I get anything wrong, ok?

I quote to visually block it off.

PEOPLE

• You, male
• K, female
• D, female
• You are all in a V thing, and K is the hinge person.

SITUATION

• K wanted to try something new in the bedroom. (Like some kind of group sex/kink thing?)
• You and K were high from doing whatever drug.
• D was the leader.
• You were holding K's hand.
• At first K liked it, but then ended up NOT liking it because it triggered her past trauma. (K is a sex abuse survivor)

PROBLEM

• K blames you for it going all wrong. She thinks you have to be responsible for informing her other lovers about her stuff.
• K did/did not inform D of potential triggers from past trauma before engaging in the new sex thing(?)
• K told you to give her space. You chose to move out for a week to live with family.
• Still no news from K for when you can return home to the space you all share. You gave it a week and plan to move back and get on with living your life.

EXTRA INFO

• You came out to your family about being poly. They don't approve. But they def don't approve of how K is treating you right now.
  
• You also notice that K treats you and D different.
  
• Last years K was suicidal. You started ignoring your needs for her and lost yourself in the relationship. You do not know if she's still in therapy or not.

WHAT YOU WANT

• You want space to find yourself. You don't want to be living with family like you are right now.
  
• You want to move on from placing so much importance on the relationship with K
  
• After a year of healing on all sides, you would be willing to reconsider getting involved again. As friends only, or as something more intimate.

HELP FROM OTHERS

You want to ask other poly people:

• What do you all think of this situation?
• How do poly break ups usually go?
• What can I expect as ethical treatment of me?

Is that about it? If so...


What do you all think of this situation?

I think you could go home, pack up, and find yourself your own flat.

I think if K really does expect you to do her jobs for her like alert her lovers to her history? She could learn to do her own jobs. And not to blame shift on to you.

Either way, I guess what’s making it so hard for me to just focus on myself And move on is the fact that neither of them are talking to me now. Their living it feels like as if I don’t exist and that sucks.

Other people don't give you closure. You create your own closure.

It sucks if they are behaving that way and not talking to you. I can imagine it is hard. At the same time... if your mind is over on them and their stuff, you are not doing your stuff. Sometimes one must physically leave first. Then the mind and heart can also "leave." So put one foot in front of the other and do the necessary tasks - packing your stuff, finding a new flat. If you have to put your stuff into temp storage and be with family a bit more as a stepping stone... do what you gotta do. One thing at a time.

[*]How do poly break ups usually go?

I think it depends on how the people have planned for them to go. Doesn't sound like there's a plan here or like it was talked about.

So you could wing it, and just do your best and get on with your wants.

[*]What can I expect as ethical treatment of me?

You can expect yourself to carry yourself with dignity. And you can say "No, thanks. I'm not up for that." if either K or D bring up shenanigans.

YOU decide what you will and will not put up with.

You sound like you want to detach from this relationship. So... could get on with it. Get to your next port of call and once there, give yourself the time and space you need to grieve and heal.

I'm sorry this happened.

Galagirl

 

[Lon8462]

So first of all, thank you for organizing your post so well it really helps. Everything you had gathered was pretty much right, and I'm thankful that my rambling wasn't too confusing

SITUATION

• 
  K wanted to try something new in the bedroom. (Like some kind of group sex/kink thing?)

• At first K liked it, but then ended up NOT liking it because it triggered her past trauma. (K is a sex abuse survivor)

Specifically, she wanted to try a butt plug.

And Butt Plugs are something D does relatively a lot and something I've experimented with once recently with K.

K has had as far as I know one bad experience in the past with anal but, and this is where things get a little hazy for me now as I look back, Idk if anal was something she genuinely was interested in or was something she wanted to do because she felt like it would make D happy or even if she felt like it would make me happy since she was the person to put one inside me when I tried it.

PROBLEM

• Still no news from K for when you can return home to the space you all share. You gave it a week and plan to move back and get on with living your life.

So I guess an Update, but she texted me today to send me a fathers day picture of our cat and let me know that she had seen that I had purchased a flight back for Saturday and that she though that would be a good time for me to come back. She also mentioned that she was healing and that she hoped I was healing too.

I'll be honest, I don't know how to feel about this. Because with her lately, I've had a tendency to place her needs above mine and a part of me is happy that she seems to finally want me back and I feel a little less alone and ignored now.

And yet, for almost an entire week now it feels like she has ignored me and the struggles that I am going through. I had to deal with telling my family everything. I'm the one who was blamed and I am the one who was alone while she had D. I suppose I am struggling with these feeling of unfairness, because it feels like K & D both turned their backs on me when what happened wasn't just my fault. Yes, I can admit to being careless and can understand that being careless isn't an excuse for making anyone feel pressured, uncomfortable, or even like they aren't being listened to during sex. But there was three of us there, and I wasn't the one leading the situation nor was I the one who wanted the sex to happen.

and *sigh* I guess I'm just hurting myself by hoping that they'll realize what I've been feeling and acknowledge my pain.

WHAT YOU WANT

• After a year of healing on all sides, you would be willing to reconsider getting involved again. As friends only, or as something more intimate.

So to clarify, I'd prefer if things could be somewhat positive/ or to be able to be friends when I get back. if something more intimate happens after we have both healed and grown, then yes, I would be comfortable with that.

I don't know if that is something they want, if they don't want to be the ones to kick me out or if K wants me to return but move how and when she wants at a pace she is comfortable with. If I am honest, my mindset is expect the worst and hope that what I want will happen. which, honestly, I don't know is the best mindset to have.

HELP FROM OTHERS

You want to ask other poly people:

• What do you all think of this situation?
• How do poly break ups usually go?
• What can I expect as ethical treatment of me?

I guess the only other things I would ask is:

• Should people/partnars in poly relationships expect to be treated differently?

As for everything else you said @GalaGirl I appreciate it. I am currently in the process of finding another place where I can heal a bit.

I still don't know what my 'normal' is right now, and its kind of hard to think that I've been not looking out for myself for a bit.

I look back sometimes and think man did I really keep that in for so long? or man did I really let that need or want become something that I felt I wasn't allowed to have because K or even D should be the focus right now?

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope you feel better airing some of that out.

I am currently in the process of finding another place where I can heal a bit.

Probably a good thing. Then you can be in your own space and meet your want of wanting to find your own self again without anyone bothering you.

I still don't know what my 'normal' is right now, and its kind of hard to think that I've been not looking out for myself for a bit.

Is that your way of going?

Like you do for others and in trade they are supposed to do for you?

I don't do it that way. I care for me first.

Not like selfish, but like self care. I tell all children here that I have to do my basics before bonus. So I'm gonna wake up and pee first before I help anyone else find breakfast. That's just sense. If all people did "basics before bonus" then everyone is being seen to by at least one person -- THEM.

And when you gift bonus help to others, it comes from a place of really gifting help. Generously given because you operate from a full tank of gas. Not like it's coming out of your hide. YKWIM?

If you discovered you were doing too much with K -- propping her up during her suicidal last year, not knowing if she's doing her patient management plan for that or even if she's still in therapy...

Kinda being her "life raft" or "prop-her-up" person?

It's ok to pull back and do less. You aren't supposed to be her free therapist or scapegoat or do everything person. It's ok to reach a personal limit. Nobody can be like Superman or Wonder Woman or whatever.

*sigh* I guess I'm just hurting myself by hoping that they'll realize what I've been feeling and acknowledge my pain.

As painful as it is... I think it is GOOD you are asking yourself things like...

• Did I really keep that in for so long? Am I appreciated here?
• Did I really put K or D wants or needs as my main focus so much that I thought I wasn't allowed to have my own wants or needs?

It's not ok to subsume yourself to a relationship. That's not healthy relating.

That's why I say "basics before bonus."

You first, then others. Not like selfish, but self care. You HAVE to go pee first in the morning before attending to others. Why wouldn't you?

You have to feel safe in the relationships you choose to participate in. Otherwise? It hurts. If things don't change? You can choose to stop being here. Because you can love someone a whole lot, but you have to love you too. And look out for your own well being. It cannot be everyone else ahead of you always.

You aren't supposed to be a door mat.

I'm glad you are getting your own place. I hope you do heal from this experience.

Galagirl

 

[FallenAngelina]

K and I were both high as well which did not help things either.

You skipped over Vinsanity's recommendation about not drugging before intense and new sexual/kinky play - and I just want to call it to your attention again. Getting high (on anything) before intense and new sexual activity is not a good idea for many reasons, but are you aware that many people with sexually traumatic pasts are more vulnerable than others? It's common for people with sexual trauma to self-medicate with drugs and alcohol, which only compounds the issue. For you, an altered state might seem like a fun thing to mix with sex and kink, but for someone who is dealing with sexual trauma, it can be the worst kind of trigger and compounder of what is already a painful and confusing reality - both during and especially after the sex when sobriety sets in. Of course K is responsible for her own choices, but you might find some education about this issue to be of help for you.

 

[Lon8462]

You skipped over Vinsanity's recommendation about not drugging before intense and new sexual/kinky play - and I just want to call it to your attention again.

My apologies, I kind of read over it and internalized the recommendation without commenting on it, but considering everything, I should be reaffirming the lessons learned as much as possible

I am aware that SAS people are very vulnerable people and my knowledge of that was sadly not enough to prepare me for where I am now. K and I have started smoking pot more because she worked at a dispensary and in a way I took it to be a new facet of her personality. I didn't consider that she was using the drug for anything other than to feel more in control and more herself I suppose. But you are both right, the dangers of intoxication during sex are something that should always be kept in mind, especially with SAS people, and something I'll keep in mind better for the future

Just as well, I haven't smoked nor drank anything intoxicating since the event and am currently revaluating my relationship with them both right now.

You have to feel safe in the relationships you choose to participate in. Otherwise? It hurts. If things don't change? You can choose to stop being here. Because you can love someone a whole lot, but you have to love you too. And look out for your own well being. It cannot be everyone else ahead of you always.

You aren't supposed to be a door mat.

I'm glad you are getting your own place. I hope you do heal from this experience.

Yes this is definitely something I will also keep in mind.

If I am honest, this is something that I have always had trouble with in every relationship and just in general. I am currently seeking consistent therapy for it but putting my own needs above others has always been a struggle for me.

If anyone has any advice growing from or has also experienced feelings of putting others before themselves, I would love to hear it either here or through a PM. I come from a family of hot headed people and while I love them, I cant help but feel that self care is just easier for them. Anyways,

I am currently scheduled to go back home on Saturday and honestly, I am both relieved and anxious to go back. I don't really know what's waiting for me up there and all my mind seems to think about is what could happen. I find myself preparing conversations in my head or dreaming about what could happen, but really I wish I could just be focusing on myself or finding ways to take care of myself instead. I guess I'm just afraid that by going back up there, I'm gonna end up folding into whatever K or D wants.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Lon8462,

From what you have posted so far, it seems to me that this relationship (with K and D) has been unhealthy in general for you. It's just that it came to a head when K wanted to try something new in the bedroom. What you should do about that? probably, what you're already doing. Most importantly right now, you're looking for a new place to live. Keep doing that. And as for K and D, it sounds like K has an extended an olive branch, so it's hopeful you can be on friendly terms with her. So I would be her friend, but not her lover at this time. Maybe in about a year, after all three of you have had some time to heal and reflect, you can become lovers again if that's something that K wants. (I couldn't tell whether you and D have also been lovers.) That year may give you time to strengthen your own boundaries in your own mind, and to get into the habit of taking care of yourself first (before taking care of others). This would make for a healthier relationship.

Hang in there, and keep us posted.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[FallenAngelina]

If I am honest, this is something that I have always had trouble with in every relationship and just in general. I am currently seeking consistent therapy for it but putting my own needs above others has always been a struggle for me.....I wish I could just be focusing on myself or finding ways to take care of myself instead. I'm just afraid that by going back up there, I'm gonna end up folding into whatever K or D wants.

This is super common and the extreme version is called codependence. There are so many resources for getting better with codependent thinking because it is so very common - so don't think that you're some rare person who struggles with putting his needs below others' or gives "too much." The key to getting better is understanding that this is a thinking pattern of yours, it's not something that finding the "right person" can cure or something that a "toxic person" can heap upon you. It's your pattern of thinking and it's learned, which is good news because anything that is learned can be unlearned and replaced with better thinking, it's just a matter of education and lots of practice. We always draw people to us who reflect what we habitually think about. People show us what our patterns are, so if you're not happy with what your relationships are repeatedly showing you about yourself, you have every power to change the pattern. Don't wait for a "better person" to do it for you because nobody can - and it sounds like you understand this part already.

People who grow up in homes where they learn to subsume their needs to others' will usually repeat the pattern in adult relationships unless they take measures to change their habitual thinking. I'm happy to hear that you're in therapy for this. There are many additional resources, as I said, for this is a very common experience. It's also common for "over givers" to orbit up with troubled and sometimes substance addicted lovers. We are drawn to them like bees to honey. Again, there are many resources for changing this thinking pattern because over-giving is so common and so painful. Lots of people are looking to change their habit of looking to others for cues as to how to feel. It's definitely changeable and life feels so much better when you learn to be the master of your own ship, navigating smoothly without constantly careening into the emotional rocks of others' troubled lives.

 

[GalaGirl]

If I am honest, this is something that I have always had trouble with in every relationship and just in general. I am currently seeking consistent therapy for it but putting my own needs above others has always been a struggle for me.

You don't have to put your needs above others. Just on the same level rather than last.

Like if everyone did their own basic self care things first, before trying to help other people with bonus tasks? That's fair right? Hopefully you find therapy that can help.

It's not healthy to be in "one way street" relationships where you do all the giving. The only times I think those are ok are limited. It's "one way street" with an infant. Because they simply cannot do for themselves. But they grow and can do more and more for their own selves. You stop dressing them. Stop bathing them. Stop wiping their behinds. Because now they take those tasks on.

It's "one way street" with a patient if having a temp illness which gets better once the illness is past. Or with a patient who is dying. Both of those situations come to an end too. Not because they grow up, but because the illness passes or the person passes.

If you are in the habit of choosing relationship where it's like you give and give and give? Always giving the most? Or you "float along into them" --- you might have to reconsider how you date. Raise your personal standards. Stop picking dating partners that don't play fair. Don't "float into" anything any more. There is nothing wrong with being a peaceful person. But make sure that is actual peace. And not "conflict avoidance."

Cuz right now you do not sound at peace on the inside. Don't be walking on eggshells in your relationships.

I come from a family of hot headed people and while I love them, I cant help but feel that self care is just easier for them.

Is that why you put others first? Growing up would you focus on the "temperature" of other hot head people and try to pre-manage conditions/situations so they DON'T blow, and so you don't have to feel anxious around them when they are doing that behavior?

I am currently scheduled to go back home on Saturday and honestly, I am both relieved and anxious to go back. I don't really know what's waiting for me up there and all my mind seems to think about is what could happen. I find myself preparing conversations in my head or dreaming about what could happen, but really I wish I could just be focusing on myself or finding ways to take care of myself instead. I guess I'm just afraid that by going back up there, I'm gonna end up folding into whatever K or D wants.

What do you need to be able to start trusting yourself?

Is that a habit? You fold so you don't have to be experiencing anxiety or stress? Or having to do conflict resolution? Kinda like "oh, whatever just to get this over with!" even if the thing doesn't really serve you well. Because you want to stop feeling UGH faster? But then later you don't like what was picked so it's like UGH anyway?

Maybe you put off going back? Like put up with the family for now and get your new place organized. Then just go back to move your things out. Then there's nothing to fold about. You already have your place. You already made YOUR plan.

When everything is hard... you have to pick your hard.

And it is ok to take up the space you do in the world. You don't have to shrink yourself.

Galagirl

 

[Lon8462]

So simple update I guess, because I’m still feeling the emotions a bit. But me and K talked and she told me a little better of what she wants. She wants me as either a friend or partner right now (am a little unclear of if she wants one or the other) but she does not want to be physical with me. I don’t know if that is a for now thing or a forever thing.

Which in a way was what I wanted and something I expected based on my research into being partnered with someone who is a sexual assault survivor. I don’t know if this is a me thing or if it’s a I don’t know if I want to be with anyone who is male. But I guess in the end this is what I wanted too. I didn’t want to be intimate with her for a bit

It just... I guess it hurts to hear still that she doesn’t want to be with me in that way even if I agree. If Anyone has any experience with sexual assault survivors, I would love to hear another perspective

Edit: I didn’t notice your post before now @GalaGirl but I’ll respond to it later today when I can.

 

[FallenAngelina]

If Anyone has any experience with sexual assault survivors, I would love to hear another perspective

Perhaps it might help you to know that one out of every six women in the USA has been raped. That's a stat of reported rapes, so the actual rate is much higher. And that stat is for actual rapes. The stat for sexual abuse and sexual victimization is incredibly high. I do not know a single woman who has not experienced some sort of sexual trauma. The experience is so incredibly common that many women (and of course some men) don't even recognize their experience as trauma or a violation, they just know that they have "issues" around sex and don't know how to craft a glorious sex life for themselves. So you don't have to go digging around for unique women who identify as survivors and you don't have go digging around for unique men who have run into them. My experience is that it's the extraordinarily rare individual who has a fabulously joyful history with sex and enjoys full agency, having never worked to get there. Fewer people perhaps write and talk about their struggles, but the vast majority of women have had them.

I'd suggest that you'd get a lot more benefit out of focusing on you. Why do you tend to worry about whether someone wants you sexually, even when you don't even mind not being sexual with them? Why do you subsume your desires to others'? Why is your go-to thinking centered on another's reaction to you? These are questions worth pondering and contain answers that will serve you well. It's good to be educated about the effects of sexual assault (and I don't mean to discount your efforts here at all) but your posts tend to focus on others' reactions to you, not on what you want.

What do you want? You really cannot have a good relationship with anyone unless you are operating from a solid base of what you, yourself value, what feels loving, what brings you joy.

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm still not clear, after all this, why a 3 way mutual decision to use a butt plug, which was unpleasant/triggering for one person, was blamed on you alone. It seems the other woman was the one inserting it, not you? Am I confused?

How on earth did this minor experiment turn into you moving out and probably breaking up with your gf? It's not your fault that she was triggered by it.

Was she unable to just say, at that moment, I don't like this, stop, safe word, done? How was it that (you or she) being a bit high on weed prevented her from saying "No"? And even if she went into a fugue, and couldn't stop the action, why wasn't this just discussed as adults when y'all sobered up?

Cannabis is recognized as a useful medication for many of those who suffer from anxiety. I don't think it needs to be demonized here, at all.

I just don't get how K's problem with anal sex was all blamed on you, and why you felt, or the women felt, you were such a villian that you had to move our and/or break up.

 

[Lon8462]

So to start,

If you are in the habit of choosing relationship where it's like you give and give and give? Always giving the most? Or you "float along into them" --- you might have to reconsider how you date. Raise your personal standards. Stop picking dating partners that don't play fair. Don't "float into" anything any more. There is nothing wrong with being a peaceful person. But make sure that is actual peace. And not "conflict avoidance."

Yeah this is definitely something I am trying to address in therapy, because you are right. I grew up in a family where conflict avoidance was the name of the game and it's something I'm having to unlearn a lot more suddenly than I thought.

When everything is hard... you have to pick your hard.

And yeah another update is that I did secure my own place now, and the only thing really left to do is move there when I'm able to head back up to the area

I still feel the nervous energy of telling K and D what I plan to do for myself but It'll go away after I get to that point.

Now the next part is mostly feeling based updates I suppose

Why do you tend to worry about whether someone wants you sexually, even when you don't even mind not being sexual with them?

I suppose it all boils down to feeling wanted, Like your right I didn't want to be in a sexual relationship with K or even D. But I came to that decision after a lot of days processing and feeling really really alone. and I suppose what bothers and worries me is that it just seems so easy for them. It feels like it was easy for them to discard me, like I'm struggling so hard and their having the time of their lives avoiding me. I guess what I feel is a mixture of abandonment and envy because I feel like their happier than me.

And I know it doesn't really matter if my feelings are reality or not. I need to stop caring about what their doing and focus more on what I'm doing and on how I can be happy... it's just hard.

Why do you subsume your desires to others'?

I guess the simple truth to that is because I focus more on making others happy than myself. I want others to want me around when but instead I guess I should focus on If I want others around me

What do you want? You really cannot have a good relationship with anyone unless you are operating from a solid base of what you, yourself value, what feels loving, what brings you joy.

I Suppose I just want to feel desired and respected. I don't want to worry about feeling used and be afraid of being discarded. I want to find a way of being happy and alone because I feel like I am too afraid of loneliness.

And now to revisit what happened

I'm still not clear, after all this, why a 3 way mutual decision to use a butt plug, which was unpleasant/triggering for one person, was blamed on you alone. It seems the other woman was the one inserting it, not you? Am I confused?

I think it boils down to 3 main things at least from my point of view.
1. K has been questioning recently her sexuality towards men because she feels that men always hurt her
2. K feels like I should have been better based on what I know, on our history together where her sexual trauma has come up before in bed with us having to stop things in the act, and on the fact that she's told me before that she struggles with stopping things verbally sometimes so I should be able to read her body language.
3. While K was also upset at D, she feels a bit safer with her because she's new. they haven't had fights really, K has wanted to be with other Queer people for awhile now, They aren't as informed on K's sexual trauma as I was. so in a sense, they have more excuses than I do.

Was she unable to just say, at that moment, I don't like this, stop, safe word, done? How was it that (you or she) being a bit high on weed prevented her from saying "No"? And even if she went into a fugue, and couldn't stop the action, why wasn't this just discussed as adults when y'all sobered up?

Yes, we didn't have a safe word prepared and the one we usually use just hadn't been used in awhile. the act of specifically verbalizing that she doesn't want to do something she previously said she wanted to do I think is what is really hard for her. She was upset that we didn't take her nervousness as a "I don't want to do this anymore"

As for discussing it like adults, we did that for maybe half a day and things were looking good but then we were talking and I started bringing up feelings that I had kept down for awhile because I felt they were never important in the moment. We overloaded each other and that was when she didn't want to be around me at all, and that was when she asked if I could leave for a bit.

Cannabis is recognized as a useful medication for many of those who suffer from anxiety. I don't think it needs to be demonized here, at all.

And it isn't something I want to demonize, it was just a factor in a hard moment for me that I'm kind of associating with the event. But it was never the cause. The cause was what we choose to do.

I just don't get how K's problem with anal sex was all blamed on you, and why you felt, or the women felt, you were such a villian that you had to move our and/or break up.

In all honesty, I don't think D blames me, I think she just doesn't want to be in the middle between me and K. She was more K's partner than mine, and she is trying to be there for K because that is easier for her to do.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Lon,

It seems to me that the main struggle here for you is that K doesn't seem to want/need you. You want to be wanted. You need to be needed. But K seemingly easily replaced you with D. This is why you are feeling envious and abandoned. Yes, you were going to go platonic with K anyway, but not like this. Not with K telling you she doesn't want/need you anymore. That cuts. That stings. That burns.

You may need to have another conversation with her, to clarify how she feels, who all she feels it toward, and how long she thinks it will last. But there's no guarantee that she won't say things to you that will hurt you even more, so I can't blame you for putting that off for the moment. My only hope is that you'll still be able to vent here, and that venting will help. Hang in there.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[Magdlyn]

I missed a couple of posts too.

K and I talked and she told me... what she wants. She wants me as either a friend or partner right now... but she does not want to be physical with me, which was what I wanted and expected, based on my research into being partnered with someone who is a sexual assault survivor. I don’t know if this is a "me thing" or if it’s a "I don’t know if I want to be with anyone who is male thing."

I didn’t want to be intimate with her for a bit.

It hurts to hear still that she doesn’t want to be with me in that way, even if I agree. If anyone has any experience with sexual assault survivors, I would love to hear another perspective.

The stat for sexual abuse and sexual victimization is incredibly high. I do not know a single woman who has not experienced some sort of sexual trauma. The experience is so incredibly common that many women (and some men) don't even recognize their experience as trauma or a violation, they just know that they have "issues" around sex... you don't have to go digging around for unique women who identify as survivors... the vast majority of women have had them.

I agree. Most women have been sexually victimized in one way or another. Of course, there is a matter of degree. Generally, for example, a girl (or boy) who was raped regularly for years, by a supposedly kind and loving parent or priest is going to have more hurt than a 19 or 25 year old who was forced by a boyfriend a time or two.

Another factor is the resiliency of the person who was molested/raped. Some people will make lemonade out of lemons, and some will commit suicide. There's a range.

I know one young woman who uncovered buried memories of her father regularly raping her for a few years when she was a kid. She laid on a couch for a couple years, unable to move (except to go to the bathroom or eat a tiny bit), and she couldn't speak. Many women end up on hard drugs or as sex workers (not that sex work is always a bad thing). Many women who were abused by fathers will choose abusive partners. Some women will avoid men, as in your case. Some women will allow their husbands to rape their daughters. Etc., etc.

I'd suggest that you'd get a lot more benefit out of focusing on you. Why do you tend to worry about whether someone wants you sexually, even when you don't even mind not being sexual with them? Why do you subsume your desires to others'? It's good to be educated about the effects of sexual assault but your posts tend to focus on others' reactions to you, not on what you want.

What do you want? You really cannot have a good relationship with anyone unless you are operating from a solid base of what you, yourself value, what feels loving, what brings you joy.

He seems to know what caused this way of thinking and acting. His family of origin were "hot heads" and he turned into a people pleaser to avoid conflict.

Knowing is the first step to healing.

 

[Magdlyn]

I suppose it all boils down to feeling wanted. I didn't want to be in a sexual relationship with K or even D. But I came to that decision after a lot of days processing and feeling really really alone. and I suppose what bothers and worries me is that it just seems so easy for them to discard me. I'm struggling so hard and they're having the time of their lives avoiding me. I guess what I feel is a mixture of abandonment and envy, because I feel like they're happier than me.

And I know it doesn't really matter if my feelings are reality or not. I need to stop caring about what their doing and focus more on what I'm doing and on how I can be happy... it's just hard.

Your feelings are real. But yeah, you can't live your life envying others. You have to go out and get what really makes you happy. Sure, it hurts everyone to feel rejected, but it doesn't mean you're unlovable. But people pleasers with low self esteem can often feel unloved. I had to leave my ex husband because I spent way too long trying to prop up his low self esteem. It was impossible. Self esteem comes from within. He got to where he blamed me for his unhappiness, even though our couples counselor told him I was doing every loving thing I could. He just couldn't feel it.

I suppose I just want to feel desired and respected.

My ex was always going on about how no one respected him. The problem was, he didn't respect himself. He'd overdo pleasing others, and then would feel they didn't appreciate his sacrifice enough, and resent them (including me). Respect has to be earned. No one respects a door mat.

1. K has been questioning recently her sexuality towards men because she feels that men always hurt her.
2. K feels like I should have been better based on what I know, on our history together, where her sexual trauma has come up before in bed with us having to stop things in the act, and on the fact that she's told me before that she struggles with stopping things verbally sometimes, so I should be able to read her body language.
3. While K was also upset at D, she feels a bit safer with her because she's new. they haven't had fights really, K has wanted to be with other queer people for awhile now. They aren't as informed about K's sexual trauma as I was. so in a sense, they have more excuses than I do.


Yes, we didn't have a safe word prepared and the one we usually use just hadn't been used in awhile. the act of specifically verbalizing that she doesn't want to do something she previously said she wanted to do is what is really hard for her. She was upset that we didn't take her nervousness as a "I don't want to do this anymore."

As for discussing it like adults, we did that for maybe half a day and things were looking good but then we were talking and I started bringing up feelings that I had kept down for awhile because I felt they were never important in the moment. We overloaded each other and that was when she didn't want to be around me at all, and that was when she asked if I could leave for a bit.

Oh, I see. So you "gunnysacked" and emotionally flooded. I understand the background now. The 3way sex thing was just the final straw.

In all honesty, I don't think D blames me, I think she just doesn't want to be in the middle between me and K. She was more K's partner than mine, and she is trying to be there for K, because that is easier for her to do.

OK. So 3way sex was too much for K to handle, since she's fragile because of previous sexual trauma. And she's kinda asking you to be a mind reader: "You should have known I didn't like it, by my body language." How about "I shouldn't have attempted this because I was (anally raped?) before and I'm still not over the PTSD"?

And since you have low self esteem, you internalized her difficulties and feel bad and blame yourself, to a degree at least.

 

[Lon8462]

My ex was always going on about how no one respected him. The problem was, he didn't respect himself. He'd overdo pleasing others, and then would feel they didn't appreciate his sacrifice enough, and resent them (including me). Respect has to be earned. No one respects a door mat.

Before I make an update on my situation, I just want to say that hearing about your ex husband really lit a fire in me because yeah, I don't want to be like that and I'm not. It just takes some constant motivation to heal and grow.

As for what's going on with me now, well I told K & D my plans to get my own place. At first they were really understanding after I explained that I'm not abandoning them or anything or cutting them off and that I still plan to help them stay afloat in the apartment since they were both recently unemployed.

But the conversation really stressed K out, and maybe 30 min after the phone call ended she texted me about how she was upset that I was doing this and that I didn't help with this month's rent at all and that she feels hurt that I didn't consult her more. she brought up some past arguments about money and it was a panic freak out.

I told her that it's something I really want, that there is already money saved up for this months rent, and that if need be I can help out more with this months rent but I still am really set on getting my own separate place. I told her that I'm not abandoning her but that I don't think its fair to expect me to be helping out much with this months rent when I haven't been home for half the month.

At that point, I offered to call if that would help with her feeling stressed but she said she didn't want to call and she seemed like she didn't want to talk about the situation anymore. So I told her that I would like to talk about this again later today so that we could talk about what we both need and go from there.

All in all, I'm happy that I decided on what I wanted and expressed that. I am a little sad that she didn't take it as well as I hoped but I understand that she's processing it and I'm hopeful that she can understand where I'm coming from and what I want.

 

[kdt26417]

You seem to be handling things the right way. Hopefully K will get in touch with you again later today.