Polyamorous just in words or actions too

Idk what the hell my problem is, but I was thinking this was RP's thread and so I was going to this thread to write the "update".
rolling eyes at self.

ANYWAY-
Maca is having surgery next week (not sure when yet).
He tore the tendon off the bone, they have to reattach it and then use wire to "hold it in place".
Then he's got 8-12 weeks of being in a brace (it's all elaborate) and physical therapy with no turning or lifting. He can move his arm, but no lifting.

:(
He's not impressed and to boot they told him he stands to lose 50% of the "usage" of that arm (his primary arm).
Suffice it to say that emotionally he's a wreck,

which if I were in "psychologist mode" I would assess as the reason why he's also in "attack mode" with me.

Whenever he feels insecure about his worth-he attacks me. He knows it-I know it.
But-he can't seem to control it.

:(

No idea what it matters that I know that, because it doesn't change the negative and destructive impact it has on our whole family.

One of the things i HATE about "knowing" things that I can't do a damn thing about.

It's like KNOWING that the person you are watching is going to get hit by a car and killed, but all you can do is stand and watch.
:(
 
Tell Maca that the doctors are giving worst case senarios. The human body is an amazing machine and tends to defy doctors ominous predictions. It also tends to find ways to compensate for stuff that doesn't work.

About 5 years ago, my husband fell off a ladder and shattered his wrist. So on Christmas Eve, we were sitting in a hospital waiting room waiting for him to get out of surgery. He now has a metal plate and screws holding his wrist together. He was told that he could loose 30-80% use of his hand. It took him over a year, but has gained back nearly full use of his hand. There is limitation in his range of motion, but the biggest thing was just getting used to working within the limitations. One of the hardest things was that after 5 months with almost no use (except PT), his hand was very week. He had to think about stuff that used to come natural.

My husband is normally pretty even tempered and not one to get overly emotional. That's usually my thing :rolleyes:. But OMG, that year was the most emotional and irrational I have ever seen him. He didn't even see it nor would he even admit it when it was pointed out. The thing is, it wasn't the pain, it was everything, including the body just trying to heal itself. Even his blood preassure was dangerously elevated for over a year and then all of a sudden his emotions stabalized and his blood preassure stopped spiking.
 
LR,
Big hugs your way. Along with a bit of advise. Worry about that which you can change or prevent. The rest, you have to simply let it happen. However, it has been MY experience, that we consern ourselves the most with things which we FEEL we can change. (This doesn't mean we CAN change them,.....Just that we THINK we can....Big difference) Let Maca have his space. Stay clear while he vents. Be close by to support. Offer no menacing words. Just be there. He is hurting....mentally, and physically. He does things to you, which he knows he can get away with. You are like a security blanket for him. He knows you will always be there for him. It's tough, but continue to be that blanket. Trust me....it works out in the end. My wife (of 20 years) and I do the same exact thing to each other. We (as humans) do this because we know that if we did the same things to someone else, they would leave.

Be strong. We are here to support you....You be there to support him. ;)
 
His coworker fell off a ladder 14 years ago, onto him. Broke his wrist. He has a plate and screws in it as well. Same arm.

I told him this morning that I know he's hurting and scared, that I'm assuming it's because of his arm; and that is why he's attacking me.

The conversation ended with him on his knees, head on his hand, on the door knob telling me that he's reading the book "Opening Up" and realizing that he's not polyamorous, he's got a swinger mentality. He said he hasn't decided what he can or can't deal with "other people" doing differently than him.
When I asked him to clarify he acknowledged that he meant he hasnt' decided if he can deal with me being polyamorous when he would prefer swinging within a closed group but focus being on the "primary relationship" and secondaries being "just secondaries".

Then he left for work.

I'm not like that-and I've always known he was ok with "casual sex" situations. But I'm not.

I'm SO not, that I'm not ok with being sexually involved with him now.

BECAUSE-

he's undecided if he's in or out of our relationship. I'm not ok with having sex with someone who isn't fully committed to having a long-term relationship with me.

If he decides that he IS-great.
But until he decides-I just can't do it.

So, now I have to tell him that. :(

I don't expect it will go over well. He's in a bad space already.
I don't know how to get around it though. I can't be honest AND take care of my NEEDS without telling him.....

He's going to see this as a "you just want to be with GG". But the truth is that right now-I don't want that either. GG's always respected that when there are problems with Maca and I-I don't want the sexual affection from him. I dont want it at all. So I don't expect him to react badly.

I just can't. I can't give myself sexually to someone who isn't committed.
I can't give myself sexually when I'm feeling off balance.

The security of my life has just been ripped out from under me (again).

Security is a huge issue for me. I'm not insecure in the sense that if someone tells me that they love someone else I feel insecure.

I'm insecure when I don't know what the plan is. I am comfortable with the fact that sometimes the plan has to be changed midway; but until a plan is in place and a course agreed upon, I feel insecure and unsure.

When feeling insecure and unsure-I can't have sex, or I feel used.... like so much chattel.
 
SNeacail said:
If I may make a suggestion, get a therapist together. If he is willing, go with him. I'm not comfortable going by myself and I tend to share more when my husband is there than when I'm by myself. I need his support to bring up the hard issues. I don't have a problem talking about it in front of him, but I do when I'm alone. You can always offer to leave the room, if it's necessary or prefered.
Click to expand...

I have, and I did again today suggest that.

Unfortunately, when we went last (which wasn't the first time) the therapist identified by our second visit that he really needed to work with Maca on his issues one on one before he could address our issues (primarily communication). The issue being that even "proper, non-violent communication" wasn't getting anywhere because every time I speak, Maca hears judgment and condemnation.

Maca started seeing him alone-and was getting a LOT of benefit, but then he stopped going.

He decided a few months ago (when he moved out in Oct) that he needed to go back. But instead of going BACK TO THAT THERAPIST who was helping him and making progress AND working with us-he opted for a different therapist. That was the 7th of November.
He didn't like that therapist-so he quit.....,

The number one issue that keeps us from making progress in our relationship is Maca's lack of commitment.

It doesn't matter WHAT you try, how you say it, where you go, when you do it. If you don't have commitment-nothing will work.

It clicked for me today.

When he freaks out and gets angry, emotional and goes into attack mode, he keeps telling me I'm not committed to our relationship. I keep asking (as recently as last night again) what actions or words suggest that. He never has an answer-because there isn't one. I am committed and I always was.

When he's calm and being rational he tells me how amazed he is that I'm so committed, that I haven't left him "yet", that I've stuck by him etc etc etc.

So it's clear that he does recognize that I am committed, and the actions which represent that commitment-when he's coherent, sensible and rational.

Which also makes it even CLEARER that when he's acting like this-he is NOT coherent, sensible, rational.

But-the other side of that coin-which goes unexpressed is this.
I don't tell him that he's not committed, however, he himself states that when things get tough, when he starts to feel insecure, frightened, worried, upset etc-he decides to leave.... he lets go of his commitment.
The wedding ring comes off, he packs his stuff and leave.

Up to this point-while silently trying to allow him the freedom to do whatever it is he needs to do to gain control of himself and his life: I've been thinking "it must be fucking nice to know I'll always be here to take care of our family, our home, our expenses, our life so that you can run away to deal with your shit." Because I've resented that he does that-and I don't.

But-today it hit me like a ton of bricks-

He's projecting HIS actions, motivations, emotions onto me.
He's telling me I'm not committed, because he's not committed.
He's telling me I'm not loving him, because he's not loving him.
He's telling me I'd be happier without him, because he'd be happier without him.

I told him this morning that I'd go to the first appointment, every appointment or no appointments-whatever he and the therapist felt was best; but a therapist was NEEDED-LONG TERM.
He asked me if that was an ultimatum.

It's not an ultimatum; but he and therefore we are down to two options,

run away from himself and our relationship/family and stay miserable
or
get help from a trained professional for as long as it takes to resolve the issue.


There's just not any other options and as I told him, I'm not a trained professional.
 
Big hugs for all of you, LR.

I'm so sorry for all that y'all are going through. :(

I wish I had some words of wisdom or some magic panacea to share. I don't. But I am sending healing love your way. For all of you.

Be strong, SisterWoman. Better days are coming.
 
Thanks Fidelia,
I'm trying.
I'm not sure I'm managing to stay strong, but I'm trying.

I got a text today,

"take care of yourself first. You are your primary."

That was early this morning and it has helped me to focus my thoughts a bit. I don't think I'm doing it (taking care of me first or being a good primary to myself) but I think I'm seeing where I need to change my behavior in order to do that...
I'm working on it.
 
LovingRadiance said:
Thanks Fidelia,


I got a text today,

"take care of yourself first. You are your primary."

.
I'm working on it.
Click to expand...

You're working on it! That says a lot in, & of, itself! You care enough about the rest of the family to work on yourself in order to be there for them when they need you.

A lot, LOT, of people have given me flack over the years because I tell them to be their own primary first and foremost!! You can't be there for lovers, children, friends, even strangers if you don't take care of yourself!

Something you said a couple of posts ago hits home with me. Commitment to a PLAN! I'm the type that needs to have some sort of plan, calendar if you will, of what's going to happen & when. If I don't have the plan I feel all adrift and out of sorts. It can, and frequently does, change part way through & that's fine, expected even, but don't just spring things on me!

Many, MANY hugs to all of you, extra ones for all the kiddos. I wish Ontario was a lot closer to Alaska so I could deliver those hugs in person *sigh*.
 
maca said:
You hate being here, you hate being with me, you hate your life. I cant keep watching you hurt and hate anymore.
Click to expand...
Sheesh, Maca, get off the pity pot!

You are injured and feeling vulnerable. I think you hate feeling vulnerable. Guess what, there's nothing wrong with it, so stop fighting it! Just as LR has to be her own primary, so do you. Why, when you have a physical issue here that needs your attention and for you to treat yourself well, do you all of a sudden think you have to figure out your relationship? You've got a fucking torn tendon, deal with that and all the feelings it brings up! So what if LR slept on the couch, why make it all about you and have a tantrum? Can't she want to be alone, ever, without it meaning something big and heavy about you?

You're feeling sorry for yourself, which isn't the best frame of mind to make big decisions. Now that you are immobilized, you have more time for therapy (both phys. and emotional) and get in touch with your feelings and really deal with them. This is an opportunity!

LR, it's not the end of the world. You seem to be feeling victimized. You seem to focus on the idea that Maca attacked you, and now you've had enough. It may be true, but you are strong, step back and take an objective look at things. You've been hurting and upset for a while now, and are exasperated with it all. You seem to be unraveling and losing patience, I think because you've spread yourself too thin. I think you need more "me" time to take care of yourself, just as Maca does. The two of you can come together stronger and more in love if you both stop looking at the other to complete you and be compassionate with yourselves. If you were in NYC (and I could afford it), I'd give you a spa day.

That's how I see it. Hope you don't mind me jumping in. I say all this with affection and sending you good vibes.
 
For what its worth, I wanted to express my gratifacation to everyone for giving there thoughts and inputs.

Im making a mess of our relationship, Im hurting the only woman that I love and Im miserable. I suggested that I should move out because it dosnt matter how much reading,talking,counseling,posting or how vulnerable I am. Its ( I have no other words to express this) never enough. LR writes all over the place that if she could leave this life behind she would. She cant bring herself to do it, for many reasons,but that dosnt mean that she wouldnt if she could.

I feel so incapable of being the person she wants me to be and I feel like a failure. I dont want to take the easy way out ( moving out) but its the only thing that I seem to be able to do without being a failure. I KNOW that giving up is a fixed mind set and its not helping me to be a better version of myself or anyone else. Im afraid of what could happen with the surgery on my arm. Im no good at love or relationships, take away what I am good at (working and making money) and whats left??

Im going to go back to the first therapist that I was seeing. We were making good progress and then the money ran out. I went to another guy that I was told " was poly friendly". That was not really true, he was/is ok with alternative lifestyles but he had been burnt in a "poly like relationship" and had bad feelings about it. So after he started ripping on LR I decided that he was not going to be helpful. The first therapist is christian based and I dont feel like I can talk to him about poly anything. LR thinks that I dont need to talk about poly, that my issues have nothing to do with poly or the fact that she had an affair and is now openly in a relationship and having sex with another man. She may or may not be completly right about that, but I cant be open and honest if Im leaving out one of the major parts of my life.

At this point, anything that I say to LR, she repeats back to me adding the emotions that go along with my statment and asking if that is correct. Its a technique from NVC ( non violent communication) and one that the first therapist was working with us on. Its a good way to talk about touchy subjects. Its a little.... frustrating when its used with EVERY comment made. I do appreciate the fact that our relationship means so much to her that she is willing to go through that much effort in the hopes that we can work things out. I know that she loves me more than most anything else in this world.

I know its alot to ask for LR, but thank you for your continued patience and love.
 
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nycindie said:
So what if LR slept on the couch, why make it all about you and have a tantrum? Can't she want to be alone, ever, without it meaning something big and heavy about you?

.
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Absolutly, she can and should have alone time. I have tried to afford her that so many times and the answer is always " I cant" for some reason or another.

We have both talked about the importance of taking a " time out" to regroup and give ourselves time to think. We have agreed that we need to tell the other that we are "taking a time out and that we will come back". We talked, had what LR agreed to as a good talk and then she turned the light out. I awoke to find her sleeping either on the couch or in GG's bed ( while he slept on the floor upstairs). Its not a matter of alone time its about not sharing that she needed/wanted alone time AND that she would return at some point.

Its part of fair fighting, which addmitadly I dont NOT always follow very well.:(
 
Maca, I didn't mean to sound harsh. But to me, it seems you both need to be more gentle with yourselves, without the self-pity, and to each other. And to be on the lookout for those things that you find offensive, so you can examine why you react that way. For example, maybe she still intended to come back, but in the morning, not when you thought she should. But when you're feeling vulnerable and hyper-sensitive, it's easy to blow things out of proportion.

Relationships are hard sometimes, but you are both much more in tune with what's going on with yourselves than most folks are, so you're really ahead of the game and have a better chance at making it work than lots of the poor bastards out there!

You two can do it!
 
Im sorry if I came across as defensive. That was not my intention. Its hard.....

Im going to stop writing now and take a time out. Ill spend some time thinking and Ill come back to this tomorrow evening.
 
maca said:
Im making a mess of our relationship, Im hurting the only woman that I love and Im miserable. I suggested that I should move out because it dosnt matter how much reading,talking,counseling,posting or how vulnerable I am. Its ( I have no other words to express this) never enough. LR writes all over the place that if she could leave this life behind she would. She cant bring herself to do it, for many reasons,but that dosnt mean that she wouldnt if she could.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I get this and have done it many time and it pisses my husband off everytime. I fully admit and agree that it is lousy fight tactics and it accomplishes nothing (working toward change). The thing is, in the heat of the moment, it does seem like the only option available when the pain is so unbearable that it is crushing your heart from the inside.

Im afraid of what could happen with the surgery on my arm.
Click to expand...

Hugs, prayers and possitive thoughts for the best outcome and recovery. Some men just have to be the hero:p

The first therapist is christian based and I dont feel like I can talk to him about poly anything. LR thinks that I dont need to talk about poly, that my issues have nothing to do with poly or the fact that she had an affair and is now openly in a relationship and having sex with another man. She may or may not be completly right about that, but I cant be open and honest if Im leaving out one of the major parts of my life.
Click to expand...

You won't know until you try. I have heard others here just flat tell the therapist that "this is my life, help me navigate within it". It seemed to work for them, worth a try.:rolleyes:

I do appreciate the fact that our relationship means so much to her that she is willing to go through that much effort in the hopes that we can work things out. I know that she loves me more than most anything else in this world.

I know its alot to ask for LR, but thank you for your continued patience and love.
Click to expand...

I think she needs to hear this more. She thinks you are worth it, don't forget that!
 
Breathesgirl said:
You're working on it! That says a lot in, & of, itself! You care enough about the rest of the family to work on yourself in order to be there for them when they need you.

Many, MANY hugs to all of you, extra ones for all the kiddos. I wish Ontario was a lot closer to Alaska so I could deliver those hugs in person *sigh*.
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nycindie said:
LR, it's not the end of the world. You seem to be feeling victimized. You seem to focus on the idea that Maca attacked you, and now you've had enough. It may be true, but you are strong, step back and take an objective look at things. You've been hurting and upset for a while now, and are exasperated with it all. You seem to be unraveling and losing patience, I think because you've spread yourself too thin. I think you need more "me" time to take care of yourself, just as Maca does. The two of you can come together stronger and more in love if you both stop looking at the other to complete you and be compassionate with yourselves. If you were in NYC (and I could afford it), I'd give you a spa day.

That's how I see it. Hope you don't mind me jumping in. I say all this with affection and sending you good vibes.
Click to expand...

Thank you both.
Yes, I DO need time to myself. I'm TRYING very hard to look inward at myself and identify what it is that I need, state it without condemnation or blame and then hold myself accountable to giving it to myself.
It's not easy.
But, with the support of honest friends like all of you-I know I can manage it.
:)
 
Maca: I don't think LR means to simply run away from the life you have together. You ALL mean so much more to her than that. (Please LR, correct me if I'm wrong on this.)

I think she's wanting to run away from responsibility and sucky situations for a short time hence the trip later this year to a polycon--so she can regroup & rediscover HERSELF.

Look at it--she's your wife, a mom AND grandma (to be? not sure if the baby was born yet?), teacher, therapist, doctor/nurse, lover, best friend, chief cook & bottle washer and so many other things thrown in there!

When you're the type of person who gives and gives and gives of yourself so others can be happy and who and what they are you (generic you) end up giving so much that it's detrimental to yourself as a whole.

From what I can read of LR here and at WordPress she's a VERY loving person who, a lot of the time, gives too much of herself, time and resources. When you give too much of yourself it's hard, really hard, to be selfish and simply say "back off, give me some space so I can breathe". It also tends to deplete your reserves of patience & being willing to give so when the giving becomes too much you simply MUST step back & breathe. She is learning this, please be patient.

Remember: there IS a reason the two of you fell in love. Something each of you saw in the other that attracted you to each other. What was that something? (You don't have to answer here)

Despite the fact you are currently having problems you DO love each other. I can see it in the words I read from both of you. You wouldn't be here, venting (or venting to someone face to face) if you weren't trying to find the rhyme and reason to what's going on.

Is there a way the two of you could maybe step back from the current situation and just appreciate what you mean to each other? Take a time out and just visit with each other without talking about the problems and appreciate what you like about each other?

I may be WAY off base here but I'm wondering, Maca, if you've really forgiven LR AND GG for the cheating and deception. There's another thread here that talks about thinking you've forgiven and/or forgotten past transgressions when you really haven't, all you've done is found a way around it rather than facing it head on & banishing it to the aether.

Good luck on your surgery next week. Try not to dwell on the dismal way the doctors are talking. They're just trying to not get your hopes up that you will have 100% use of that arm again. There's a better than even chance that you WILL regain most, if not all, the use in that arm eventually.

Many hugs to all of you. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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Breathes-
you are correct.

I hate the unnecessary drama.
I hate living with people who don't chose to think before they speak/act.
I hate living with people who don't take full responsibility for their own words and actions.


That doesn't mean I hate the people. I don't.
I don't stay because I CAN'T leave.

I stay because I believe that they can change.

For example, Maca keeps telling me he WANTS to change.

So-change, yes you are going to screw up in the process-but when you do, accept the consequences (including me being pissed off at you for treating me like shit) with grace and the understanding that you screwed up. Acknowledge your screw up honestly and openly so that we can help you fix it.

Don't threaten to walk out.
Don't make excuses like "she hates it here" when the problem is that YOU said YOU wanted to change and YOU screwed up.
Don't blame others or try to avoid taking the blame.
Don't give up.

I fuck up all of the time-ALL OF THE TIME.
I'm expected to deal with the consequences.

Lets be fair-lets be reasonable.

Stop playing "poor poor me" music
and
start playing "what did I do to exacerbate or cause this situation? How can I fix it now?" music IN OUR OWN EARS AND THEN START ACTING ON IT.
 
I've been so out of the loop of lately but I did skim through some of the last ten postings. LR, I totally agree with your last posting. It's hard to do for many people- and many people do not live that way-in a way that makes it 'simple'- but it's not impossible to accomplish. However, it does take the ability to look long, hard, and honestly at oneself and vow to make those changes by exercising moment-by-moment awareness. It'll be ugly, it'll be draining, and it just may clear out various things in one's life that they didn't realize needed to be cleared out but there will come a time, looking back on the most trying times of the process, of clarity and satisfaction. I'm sending you and yours loads of love, support, and reflection vibes~~~~~*hugs*
 
Thank you Eclektic (I don't know how to spell it and I can't see it from this screen sorry!)

I talked with maca tonight.

He's back in a place where he says that he understands that he needs to choose to "take a leap of faith" because he's afraid that if he is vulnerable (and honest) with anyone-they will take advantage of his vulnerablilities.
He's also back in a place where he says that he knows I have been trying to be supportive of him.

There's so much more.

The bottom line is-this isn't a new place for him, for us. It's the same place that we've been in for years now. He rocks back and forth between "oh my god I'm such a fuck up" and "fuck you it's all your fault"...

I told him this evening-I love him.
If my choice is to live with the REAL him-the him that is happy with himself and being true to himself, or without him-I would choose to be with him.

But-
if the choice is to continue to live with this version of him that reminds me of a demon-possessed person in the movies, or without him. I would choose to be without him.

I also told him-that I can't continue to battle FOR him at the expense of myself and our children.
So, either he makes the choice to do the battle for himself-with himself or I won't have a choice but to leave. He knows-I would never keep the kids from him. But I didn't mince words that as things stand, he can't take care of himself emotionally-so I can't trust him to take care of our children.

He didn't argue or disagree. He's heartbroken (still/again), he understands at the moment.

I pray this is the moment where it "sticks" and he commits to moving forward.
I worry that it's not.
But I pray that it is.
 
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