Polyamory, polyfidelity.... What is it?

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skyfire322

New member
My girlfriend had met another polyamorous person online a few months back and will be meeting up with her in a few weeks. Unfortunately, I will be unable to make the trip. The potential third party never contacted me until last night, so I don't know her at all.

Anyway, my girlfriend and I had a discussion about this (it was pretty tense to say the least) and she brought up the person we were poly with (we're still best of friends). She asked me if it was alright for her to just have sex with him, while being in a relationship with this new person.

My head is spinning, because I don't even know if this situation constitutes as polyamory, polyfidelity, or what.

Any insight as to what this might be?
 
Right now it reads very confusing!

I am going to guess. I might guess totally wrong. I am going to take the liberty of naming these people nicknames just so my head can take it in.

BACKGROUND

  • You are Skyfire.
  • You have a GF. Her name is Jane.
  • Jane is taking a trip to see.... a potential Sally. They met online months ago. You cannot make this trip.
  • There's this potential Suzy that contacted you last night you are interested in.

CURRENT PROBLEM

  • You and Jane used to be in a polyship with John. You ended it but are still good friends.
  • Now all of a sudden Jane wants to know if you are ok with her sharing sex with John, while she's pursing this Sally person.
  • You do not have a name for this configuration and would like one.

To me?

It is not "polyfi" because you are not Closed to a certain group of people at this point.

It is not "polyamorous" across the board -- there's been no time for love to grow on some of those. Some of these people are still "dating potentials."

I would call it "poly dating."

If it works out with all of them, it would be a "polycule" or "poly network" where You and Jane are hinges.

You would be hinge to Jane and Suzy. Like a "V"

Jane would be a hinge to Sally, John, and You.

Something like the first image in this article:

http://www.lifeontheswingset.com/8582/what-do-you-call-it-some-polyamory-network-terminology/

But it really doesn't matter -- so long as you are all consenting and ok with it -- call it whatever and be however you like.

HTH!
Galagirl
 
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Polyamory is the act of having, or desire to have, more than one loving relationship, with the full knowledge and consent of everyone involved. Polyfidelity is a term used to describe a certain kind of agreement between people in a poly arrangement to be faithful to their group, ie., not having any sexual or emotional relationships with anyone outside the group. Are you part of a polyamorous situation where the people involved made a commitment to be polyfidelitous, otherwise known as "closed?" We can't know whether your arrangement is poly-fi or not.

So, it sounds like your gf met someone online, will be meeting her soon, and plans to have sex with her before they really get to know each other. That may sound like something more open than poly -- because love, or a loving relationship, takes time to develop -- but lots of people prefer to start off their relationships with sex and to let feelings grow from there, rather than starting off developing feelings before sex takes place.

However, a lot of your post is unclear. I am confused as to why you mentioned that you cannot meet this person, and also that your conversation about what she wants to do was "tense." Do you and she have certain agreements in place that require you to meet her lovers or monitor her love life? Was she supposed to ask for permission from you before doing what she wants to do with her body?

I am also a little confused about the former lover. Is she saying that she wants to be involved with him again, but this time only sexually? And she is asking you if that is okay? By the way, just to have all the players correct - are you male or female?
 
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Yeah, confusing. :confused:
 
I do apologize for the confusing post, everyone! I definitely should have expanded everything in a bit more detail. This reply will include all the details.

We shall call my GF Jane, the new person Lilly, and the former lover Jack.

nycindie said:
I am confused as to why you mentioned that you cannot meet this person, and also that your conversation about what she wants to do was "tense."
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I should have stated why I couldn't make it. I am unable to make the five day trip as they are meeting out of town, and I couldn't get any time off from work. I was also mentioning this because I'd like to meet and get to know Lilly a bit more in person so I can build trust before going all in.

I'm the type of guy who likes to meet face to face, as one can sound like the nicest person in the world online, but are completely different in person. I was burned in my last poly relationship (which lasted about two months, so I don't think that was even considered as poly after thinking about it) before meeting Jane solely making the decision based on what the third party said online and judging them by pictures.

So after just having one in depth conversation with Lilly and very limited online small talk like "hows the weather, what's up" and using Jane to relay all her responses to me red flags have went up left and right.

The conversation was tense, in the fact that I expressed my being uncomfortable of Jane not saying anything at all until two or three nights ago. The conversation started with "Oh by the way... Lilly and I are romantically interested in each other so if this or this happens when we meet, you'll know why." If this was brought up a little earlier, I would have been a little bit more at ease. Don't get me wrong, I am glad it was finally brought up, but the way it was presented to me Jane said (things like "I was a bit shy to bring this up")... It got under my skin just a little bit.

nycindie said:
Do you and she have certain agreements in place that require you to meet her lovers or monitor her love life? Was she supposed to ask for permission from you before doing what she wants to do with her body?
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I don't want to monitor Jane's every single move because that would just make me look like a control freak because we all need our freedom, but we DO have a solid agreement for me to meet her lovers in person before things go further.

nycindie said:
I am also a little confused about the former lover. Is she saying that she wants to be involved with him again, but this time only sexually? And she is asking you if that is okay? By the way, just to have all the players correct - are you male or female?
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You are correct about Jane asking permission about only wanting to be sexually involved with Jack while having a relationship Lilly. Jack is one of my closest friends who is also poly, and knew him well before us three brought up the idea of a relationship.


I guess this why I'm confused. I've never dealt with two outside parties at once, one purely sexual and one being romantic...

I'm a male, by the way.

Hopefully, this shed a little bit more light on the situation.
 
Hey skyfire322,

I'd say the purely sexual relationship would not count as part of the poly relationship (as poly denotes more than just sex). Taken together, all these relationships definitely add up to nonmonogamy (consensual nonmonogamy I would hope). Let's say nonmonogamy with some poly overtones. If Jane has intimate relationships with you and Lilly, that's poly.

Not that the terminology is the important thing. I think the biggest concern is that Jane is about to start a relationship with Lilly, before you get a chance to meet Lilly in person, which falls short of your criteria for consent. Unless you guys agree to lighten the rules or make an exception to the rules?

What do you think you'll decide?
 
I don't think it matters in the least if you, or your wife, are in "polyamorous" configurations with Jack or Lilly.

She hasn't met Lilly yet, and neither have you. She has chatted online with her for several months and has a crush on her.

You two have a "rule" that she can't start a relationship with anyone unless you meet them first (and approve, I guess).

So now what? She is going to meet Lilly anyway?

Meanwhile, you both had a loving relationship with Jack? You are still close friends. But the sex stopped. But now Jane wants to fuck him anyway. Well, she doesn't dislike him now? She still cares for him? She probably "loves" him still, more than she "loves" Lilly, whom she has not met.

So, whether or not anyone "loves" anyone, the crux of the matter seems to be, you're upset she is rekindling with Jack, and starting up with Lilly, simultaneously. Either relationship could involve love or not. That is not the issue. The issue is your feelings around Jane having sex with 2 people who are not you. Is that right?

Are you going to relax your rule around having to meet Lilly before Jane is "allowed" to fuck Lilly? Are you OK with Jane fucking Jack again, even though she isn't "in love" with him anymore, and you aren't fucking him anymore? Do you still want to fuck Jack yourself? Why did that r'ship end?

You don't have to type out the answers to all this. Just breaking it down so there can hopefully be less "tension."
 
kdt26417 said:
What do you think you'll decide?
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Jane and I had a long conversation about it this morning. We have all come to the agreement that her and Lilly's first meet will be purely social since they have never met. Once I meet Lilly and talk to her more, I'll have a clearer picture and assess the situation.


Magdlyn said:
You two have a "rule" that she can't start a relationship with anyone unless you meet them first (and approve, I guess). So now what? She is going to meet Lilly anyway?
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They had planned on meeting for her birthday well before they announced their "crush" to each other. I stand firm on not starting the relationship until all three are comfortable with each other, which they think is definitely understandable.



Magdlyn said:
The issue is your feelings around Jane having sex with 2 people who are not you. Is that right?
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I'd say the issue is with Lilly. Jack, I don't mind so much though.


Magdlyn said:
Are you OK with Jane fucking Jack again, even though she isn't "in love" with him anymore, and you aren't fucking him anymore? Do you still want to fuck Jack yourself? Why did that r'ship end?
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I'm alright with her having sex with him, and she's alright with me having sex as well. All of us still have feelings for each other, but in the end an actual relationship just didn't work out the way we had hoped.



I know this is a confusing situation, so I do apologize.
 
OK, so with that further information, let me ask you this. Are you (and Jane) rather intent on making triads happen? Do you (you yourself, or both you and Jane) actually, honestly, hope to form a triad with Lilly? Did the relationship with Jack not work out because there were unequal feelings making a triad impossible?

Are you nervous about Jane having individual relationships with people? Would you rather you and she only date as a couple? Is she on the same page? Or is she having other ideas on that? Could she be afraid to admit that?

I could be totally off base but I am just getting that feeling from your posts.
 
skyfire322 said:
Once I meet Lilly and talk to her more, I'll have a clearer picture and assess the situation . . . I stand firm on not starting the relationship until all three are comfortable with each other, which they think is definitely understandable.
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Wait, just to clarify further - are you saying you have to be involved with anyone Jane gets involved with, or do you just want to meet Lilly so you know who Jane wants to have a relationship with? Do you and Jane date separately or not? Do you know that team dating is not a requirement in polyamory?
 
It sounds like you guys have basically got things worked out for the time being?
 
To follow on from nycindie's question: is the agreement that you simply have to meet Jane's partners before things become romantic (you said 'before things go further')?

Or is the agreement that you have to meet them and approve of the relationship / be comfortable with it? (As a later post seemed to suggest)?

Because those are two different things.

What happens if you meet Lily and then Jane says 'ok, you met, Lily and I will date now'...and you say 'no, wait! I'm not comfortable with that yet!'...how long do Lily and Jane have to wait to start their relationship on your say-so?

Does Lily get the same privileges as you if she dates Jane?...e.g. Can she tell Jane she isn't comfortable with you yet so you need to stop dating Jane until she is?

If not, is Lily aware of all the rules you and Jane have which will limit Jane's relationships with others, and that her and Jane's relationship with always have some sort of deference to you?
 
There are plenty of couples who post here who insist on meeting/approving their metamours before things progress. But I never quite get that. In my relationship with miss pixi (6 years now, successful open relationship) she and I get contacted by so many men. We often chat (individually) with a guy for a month or two before meeting him. We trust each other's judgment in partners absolutely. If ever she doesn't 100% approve of a guy I meet or plan to meet, from what I told her, she doesn't object. It is none of her business. I might get something out of a r'ship with him that she wouldn't be interested in for herself! Likewise, if she hooks up with a guy I wouldn't choose for myself, so what? She is on her own journey, she has her own needs and agenda.

Do you want to "protect" Jane? What is the point of meeting Lilly? If Jane likes her, isn't that good enough?
 
Magdlyn said:
There are plenty of couples who post here who insist on meeting/approving their metamours before things progress. But I never quite get that. In my relationship with miss pixi (6 years now, successful open relationship) she and I get contacted by so many men. We often chat (individually) with a guy for a month or two before meeting him. We trust each other's judgment in partners absolutely. If ever she doesn't 100% approve of a guy I meet or plan to meet, from what I told her, she doesn't object. It is none of her business. I might get something out of a r'ship with him that she wouldn't be interested in for herself! Likewise, if she hooks up with a guy I wouldn't choose for myself, so what? She is on her own journey, she has her own needs and agenda.

Do you want to "protect" Jane? What is the point of meeting Lilly? If Jane likes her, isn't that good enough?
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Thank you for this response. This has really opened my eyes, honestly. The point of us wanting to meet the third party, for all intents and purposes IS to protect each other. Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way, shape or form trying to constrict her because I know she needs her freedom as well. But if this thing with Lilly doesn't work out, Jane would be crushed.

Maybe I'm a little jealous that she's finding all of these people who are poly and I'm not. The people that I'm interested in with run for the hills as soon as I say the word poly.
 
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OK, now we see the problem! You and Jane assumed to be poly, you have to manifest triads! This couldn't be further from the truth. I am not sure where you got that idea... You've got more reading to do.

Try the books "Opening Up" and "More Than Two."

If you do a tag search here on "unicorn hunters" you will see that forcing triads (or quads) is the absolute WORST way to practice polyamory. Put yourself in Lilly's shoes. She is interested in JANE. She talks to JANE. She wants to meet JANE for a possible relationship. Yet, there is this husband lurking in the background that she SUPPOSED to also get a crush on and have sex with as a ticket to be with Jane. Ugh.

It's hard enough getting one new relationship off the ground. It's super hard for a "unicorn" to start 2 new relationships at once.
 
Magdlyn said:
OK, now we see the problem! You and Jane assumed to be poly, you have to manifest triads! This couldn't be further from the truth. I am not sure where you got that idea... You've got more reading to do.

Try the books "Opening Up" and "More Than Two."

If you do a tag search here on "unicorn hunters" you will see that forcing triads (or quads) is the absolute WORST way to practice polyamory. Put yourself in Lilly's shoes. She is interested in JANE. She talks to JANE. She wants to meet JANE for a possible relationship. Yet, there is this husband lurking in the background that she SUPPOSED to also get a crush on and have sex with as a ticket to be with Jane. Ugh.

It's hard enough getting one new relationship off the ground. It's super hard for a "unicorn" to start 2 new relationships at once.
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With what was just said, I can understand everything a bit more clearly. Our common ground (the triad) worked perfectly with Jack, so when this happened... I stood back and said to myself "what exactly is going on? My head is spinning right now."

Up until this thread, I thought it was just swinging which is a HUGE mistake on my end. Everything I found on Google just mentioned triads and quads but nothing about unicorns. Now that everything has been clarified, I think I know my place now.

I'm really glad I joined this forum. :)

Again, my apologies for such a long, drawn out (and confusing) thread.
 
skyfire322 said:
. . . But if this thing with Lilly doesn't work out, Jane would be crushed.
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Crushed? Really? If things don't work out with someone she hasn't met yet and has only talked to online for a few months, she will be crushed? Methinks someone needs to learn what realistic expectations are.

I still don't understand how meeting new people "protects" your partner. Is she not doing the smart common sense thing to do in dating, which is to meet someone for the first time in a public place and to provide other people with her whereabouts and schedule?

Oh wait a minute, she is taking a trip to meet this stranger alone, isn't she? Just a few phone calls and lots of messaging, right? And she thinks she knows Lilly well enough to travel to see her? Well, yes, I can see why you would feel protective. Why is she taking such a risk?
 
skyfire322 said:
The point of us wanting to meet the third party, for all intents and purposes IS to protect each other. Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way, shape or form trying to constrict her because I know she needs her freedom as well. But if this thing with Lilly doesn't work out, Jane would be crushed.
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Adding to Magdlyn's point about allowing ones' partner to be on her own journey, I'll say that we can't really protect anyone else from getting hurt, much as we think we can. Jane is seperate from you and she'll have her own perceptions of who is right for her that you're not in a position to evaluate - and visa versa. And really, taking a protective stance assumes that your partner isn't capable of navigating relationships and growing from the challenges of intimacy on her own steam. Every close relationship has challenges and if you perceive your partner as needing protection from "hurt" you are not only deceiving yourself that your protection is even possible but you're communicating to her that she is small, frail and breakable. I encourage you to take a huge step back and show your love by having confidence in your partner. You can count on her "hurt" if this relationship develops into something deep - that's just part of the program. But the most loving thing you can do is to allow her her freedom and have confidence that Jane can manage her own life, her own relationships, her own path.
 
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HappilyFallenAngel said:
Adding to Magdlyn's point about allowing ones' partner to be on her own journey, I'll say that we can't really protect anyone else from getting hurt, much as we think we can. Jane is seperate from you and she'll have her own perceptions of who is right for her that you're not in a position to evaluate - and visa versa. And really, taking a protective stance assumes that your partner isn't capable of navigating relationships and growing from the challenges of intimacy on her own steam. Every close relationship has challenges and if you perceive your partner as needing protection from "hurt" you are not only deceiving yourself that your protection is even possible but you're communicating to her that she is small, frail and breakable. I encourage you to take a huge step back and show your love by having confidence in your partner. You can count on her "hurt" if this relationship develops into something deep - that's just part of the program. But the most loving thing you can do is to allow her her freedom and have confidence that Jane can manage her own life, her own relationships, her own path.
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Thank you for that. From the responses I have been given, it sounds like I've been going about this the wrong way. I do trust her judgement, so I'll have a sit down with her tonight. You have all really helped me understand everything.
 
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